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westernpa
02-10-2006, 08:17 AM
Can anyone fill me on how this machine stacks up against the Bobcat T190 or the Deere CTL322? I mullled over the numbers and talked to reps from all 3 and each has their own spin on it. Does the TL130 undercarriage and planetary drive have anything over the T190 or CTL322 machines? We are hoping to demo each of these machines within two weeks or so but it's always good to hear some opinions from those who have had some seat time and maintenance issues/experiences. The machine will be used 90% for excavation and 10% lifting/moving pallets of block,etc.

ksss
02-11-2006, 09:58 PM
I spent about three days on a 140 and generally it seemed like a nice machine. They are physically a big machine. Although the 130 seems more "normal". The 150 looks like a D4. I have run the 190 and have nothing positive to say about it except that it is a Bobcat and for better or worse, someone will buy it. You can research the archieves and find out what has been written about it. My issues were lack of power, too much feed back in the AHC, and loud. I have yet to spend any time in a Deere. You may want to try a CASE CT445 it ran very well.

westernpa
02-12-2006, 10:53 AM
One thing I see about the TL130 is that it has great breakout force (6,700+)but its tipping load is comparitively low (at 4,630). That low tipping load may be a concern. I keep hearing about the lack of power on the T190 and that is an obvious concern as well. The Deere CT322 seems to have what the TL130 and and T190 are lacking as far as the numbers go but not much talk about them. We are on the list for a demo in the next week or so.

all ferris
02-12-2006, 02:08 PM
As far as I know the whole TL series have big frames. I personally have a
T200 bobcat but I used a TL 150 for 3 days and it was nice. It took a bit to feel comfortable in the tl150 because I was not used to hand controls and it has absolutly no feedback in the controls. The TL150 had a huge cab and I kinda felt like this-gmc . Also, the cab was not near as user friendly as bobcats and this particular tl150 had bucket positioning on it and I could not figure out how to turn it off??? On the plus side it had gobs of power and never even thought about bogging down. Over all I thought the tl150 was a nice machine so I would probably think the same of the tl130.

Koster Landscape
02-12-2006, 06:36 PM
We own a TL 140 and have had good luck with the machine, tried out the TL 130 but decided to purchase the TL 140. I guess it's all about what you really want to do with the machine. What are you looking to do ? I took a demo on the Cat, but it just wasn't there, Bobcat didn't have the joy stick option on the 200 at the time and I would have to use foot pedal, not what I wanted. The 140 is a very strong machine, and I have done some amazing things with it.I think Takeuchi has a well thought out machine, good track system, sealed idlers and rollers, heavy gauge steel frame work through out.It's just a simpler machine, Bobcat has too many bells and whistles(electronic junk) to go wrong.us flag

westernpa
02-12-2006, 11:50 PM
We need it to excavate and grade about 90% of the time. The machine also needs to lift 2 - 3 ton off palletized materials off of a flatbed or dump truck. It's the lifting part that I am concerned about. Not sure if the TL130 will get those pallets off of the trucks for us without wanting to do a triple lindy!

ksss
02-13-2006, 01:03 AM
That is a lot of weight to lift off. I don't think a TL130 will do that. It may take a 150 to lift that kind of weight. 6000 pounds is a lot of weight to lift with any skid steer. I looked up the lifting capacity of a 150 and it has a tipping load of 7000 pounds and an operating load of 2450 pounds. You would have to be very careful when unloading. You certainly would do a triple Lindee in a 130, you may get by with only a single Lindee in a 150 ;) I guess you would have to weigh how often you need to do that verse everything else you need the machine to do. If a 130 can do 90% of what you need perhaps its worth breaking the pallets down when you need to lift them off the trailer. That sucks but it would seem a little waste full to pay the extra money (which is considerable going from a 130 to a 150) to accomplish a task that accounts for less than 10% of your normal duty.

westernpa
02-13-2006, 08:41 AM
Unfortunately breaking down the pallets of materials is something we already have to go through and we would really like to eliminate that. Moving up to a bigger machine isn't in the cards financially at the moment. We also would like to keep the machine weights down enough without having to get a CDL to move equipment around. Our bigger excavation jobs we are going to sub out and we have several contractors with heavier equipment lined up. Running these number can and is driving us bonkers! hammer These demos can't come soon enough!!

toplineth
02-18-2006, 12:32 AM
The Takeuchi is the way to go. If you run all of them the Takeuchi is the nicest machine by far and there is nothing on the market that can out dig it, size for size machines of course.

UNISCAPER
02-18-2006, 11:01 PM
You need to keep in mind that every manufacturer tweeks their tipping break out and load numbers. The best way to see what it does is put it to work doing what you need to do. Great example here. Our 257B's are rated to lift 2600 lbs believe. (That tells you I don't read written manufacturers crap)

We routinely lift 3200 lb pallets of Keystone. Enough said. I'm sure you will find different numbers and capabilites on a field test. Break out force...Explain how anything with a 30% lower tipping weight than it's break out force could be physically possible. How did they rate the break out force? Is it rated from the power of driven wheels/tracks? Or do they rate it from the bucket/boom raising a load from a hard packed soil situation? Manufacturers slant both as they need to help their numbers appear more salable.

My grandfather had a sign over the motor test tank in the shop of his marina that said "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions" Those words I read as I was a boy growing up have stuck with me all my life. They are what you need to do before dropping a dime on anyones machine.

Tigerotor77W
02-19-2006, 12:28 AM
Bill, I'm not going to disagree with your point here (especially not the "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions" -- that's a great quote!), but it is possible to have a machine that has more breakout force than tipping load. It is impossible (strictly by-the-book, not saying this doesn't get changed) to have a breakout force at maximum reach greater than tipping load, because the tipping load is the applied load at maximum reach that will cause the machine to tip. Again, this is by-the-book definition, not necessarily what's reflected in real life testing that ultimately publishes the numbers in specalogs.

When the load is on the ground, it's closer to the machine -- which reduces the lever arm of the force applied, so yes, it's possible. I actually did a small test on a certain brand of skid-steer to see if I could reproduce the same numbers of breakout force given the reported machine weight, reported machine CG, and actual measurements for lever arms and distances. What I found is that when the machine has no counterweights, the manufacturer reports one breakout force; when the machine has counterweights, the manufacturer seems to report another breakout force. I don't want to give the name of the manufacturer (and won't) because it'd be poor ethics to go out and disprove a manufacturer, but you're right: they fudge numbers. However, the numbers don't lie -- the machine can exert that much force -- you just have to do special things to it. (By the way, I was able to reproduce the numbers based on very elementary calculations -- not taking into account the fact that tires will squash a little bit when put under load, etc. Also, I haven't discussed this with the company -- that's my plan for spring break -- but I don't know if the counterweight theory is correct. What is correct, however, is that if the machine doesn't have counterweights, it simply cannot have that much breakout force. Breakout force, as defined, cannot lift the rear of the machine of the ground. There isn't explicit mention of what weight the machine should be at: the standards say only, "At standard mass." Well... to a scale, a Case 1845 is at "standard mass" whether it has counterweights or not. My point is that I don't know whether the manufacturer puts counterweights on to inflate its breakout force. On paper, it could easily appear that it does, but again, that's unsubstantiated.)

At the same time, don't forget that it's possible to skew tests as well -- change the pump settings on your 257B and a Bobcat 463 will out-push it. I think every manufacturer has found a way to put every feature of its products in a superior light. Otherwise, you'd have very few manufacturers getting such good success...

westernpa
02-22-2006, 12:45 AM
Well we tested the John Deere CT322 today and it peformed quite well in our excavation and lifting expectations. The machine had a good amount of digging power but I did manage to stall it after burying the bucket on a down-hill grade (operator error). The machine did pull a steep grade (approx 45 degrees) without a problem with a loaded 72" bucket of dirt as well as crawling up the slope without a load and wanting to tip over. We did notice a very slight arm sway on a brand-new machine but it was very slight. What it will be like at 1000 hrs is the big question. Overall we feel it is a decent machine and if the price is right it may be part of our fleet in the very near future. The Bobcat T190 and the Takeuchi TL130 are on the demo list later this week. Stay tuned!

westernpa
02-25-2006, 09:12 AM
We had the Bobcat T190 out for a demo and it too did a decent job of moving dirt but not quite as much power as the JD CT322. The machine bogged a little bit but no different than the CT322. This was the new K-series machine with the upped hp and increased pump pressure. Not a bad machine for what we need to do.

The following day we had the Takeuchi TL1

westernpa
02-25-2006, 09:27 AM
Hit the wrong key! The TL130 by far had the most power of the three machines. It could push of the ends of a plile of dirt and concrete and keep on pushing. It could also lift 2 pallets of versa-lok but not without wanting to tip on a level surface. We have other materials that weigh just as much as the 2 pallets so that was a good test for us. The other machines would not lift that kind of weight. Overall we were impressed with the TL130 performance. Need more seat time to get more comfortable with the hand controls though.

Time to see what pricing is for each machine and go from there!

all ferris
02-26-2006, 12:38 AM
Be careful with the radius lift machines!!! The tl130 might pick that stuff up off the ground but if you try to raise it to about 5' you might do a nose plant. This comes into play when trying to unload heavy pallets off a tractor trailer.:weightlifter:

ksss
03-02-2006, 11:11 PM
So what is the update. Whose machine stayed, and why?

ProLandscapes
06-03-2007, 03:16 AM
update already! although I am guessing it was the TL130

SiteSolutions
06-03-2007, 03:35 AM
I would like to know how this turns out, too... currently running a T-190. Local dealer has a TL-130 with 800 hours and some wear on it for what seems like a lot of money, I think he said $30k. I took it for a quick spin at the dealer's lot. I'm not really in a position to trade up right now but am keeping it in mind if things go well this summer.

I could tell the TL-130 was strong, and it has a good reputation for undercarriage toughness. My current machine does seem a little low on power sometimes, but I usually need good "touch" on the controls more than brute strength. The TL-130 was fast in a straight line, but that joystick was downright goofy! Back up and try to turn it; you spin the wrong way! At least, that was my initial impression. Maybe I will take it out on a job where there's plenty of room to run it without hitting a house or dropping it in a creek, and see if I can get more done with it.

AWJ Services
06-03-2007, 11:22 AM
but that joystick was downright goofy! Back up and try to turn it; you spin the wrong way!

Being used too rowing sticks it will seem awkward.

But whenever the joystick is pushed too the right the front of the machine goes right and whenver the stick goes left the front of the machine goes left.
So you want the bucket too go too the left move the joystick left.
Bucket go right move the joystick too the right.
Same forward or backwards.

Their pilots have been this way for along time.

Fieldman12
06-03-2007, 11:58 AM
The boom sway is one of the first things you will notice on all Deere skid steers/CTL machines. They do it from the very beginning. They can move a good inch side to side. Once you get use to it you wont notice it. Other than that they are very, very, good machines. Have a friend that has one and likes it very well. My Deere has a little over two thousand hours now and not anymore noticeable movement than a new one.

SiteSolutions
06-03-2007, 01:04 PM
Being used too rowing sticks it will seem awkward.

But whenever the joystick is pushed too the right the front of the machine goes right and whenver the stick goes left the front of the machine goes left.
So you want the bucket too go too the left move the joystick left.
Bucket go right move the joystick too the right.
Same forward or backwards.

Their pilots have been this way for along time.

Are other manufacturers' pilot controls set up this way? It seems counterintuitive, but maybe you get used to it?

AWJ Services
06-03-2007, 04:04 PM
Are other manufacturers' pilot controls set up this way? It seems counterintuitive, but maybe you get used to it?

I am not sure.

Running the row sticks is the problem.
I never had alot of time in any one skid so these were very easy for me.

The row sticks seem wrong too me.
You push with your left hand too go right and your right hand to go left.:)

ksss
06-03-2007, 06:29 PM
Pilots come in only two patterns that I am aware of. ISO which is what TK uses as well as everyone else. These tend to be called CAT controls but TK actually was the first to put it in a skid steer. All loader arm /bucket movements in right hand and machine movvement in left or CASE controls or H pattern. All non pilot controls which is to say E/H which is Bobcat and the new C series CAT use have a switch from ISO to H and back. Komatsu which is pilot also has this ablity although not favorable due to making all flows and pressures the same. All other pilot machines CASE/NH, A and B series CAT and TK have field installed kits available to switch from ISO to H. I think the more time you spend in one or the other pattern the more difficult it is to switch. When I go down to prototype machines I spend a week going back and forth between the two patterns which makes it very difficult atleast for me. I feel more precise with the H. I don't care for the way in which you have to find the right spot to counter rotate with ISO. With all the loader movements in 360 degrees, it seems more difficult but that is more than likely my lack time using that pattern. The CASE engineers feel that ISO is more intuitive, which is ironic since they gave use the H pattern. I don't think there is a right and wrong only what your used to. Given enough seat time you can become proficent with either. I am just not willing to spend that time getting used to ISO.

SiteSolutions
06-03-2007, 07:36 PM
Other than my Bobcats, I haven't got much time in any other CTL or skid steer. I have run dozers with a left hand drive control / right hand blade control... pulling back went back; pulling left brakes the left side (blade swings right).

Track hoe controls of any size are basically like the rowing sticks in a Bobcat.

Big track loaders I've driven, like a 555 or a 953, with pedal control, are similar: the left pedal clutches / brakes the left side.

Even in my truck: Turn wheel to left: going forward, nose goes left. Going backward, nose goes right, and the truck goes where I am pointing it: Back and to the left

That is to say, on all the machines I have run before the TL-130, pushing, pulling, or otherwise steering to the left makes the machine travel to the left, whether it be forwards + left or backwards + left.

tthomass
06-07-2007, 11:59 PM
Let the fun begin...........I'm awaiting the end of the year to see what taxes say to do before any purchasing. TL150 is a little tank with a whole lot of heart.......by far the best machine I've ever used (New Holland, Deere, Cat, Bobcat, Mustang)......they just cost a lot.

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&_trksid=m37&satitle=tl140&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2FPostal&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&from=R10&_trksid=m37&satitle=tl150&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2FPostal&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search

RockSet N' Grade
06-09-2007, 12:24 AM
I ran a Takehoochi last year all season with an enclosed cab. I liked it alot and one of the little things that I found awesome and time saving was that the cab door did NOT swing out, it rolled up overhead and I have found that to be most convenient. It was a stout little mutha and reminds me of a Timex watch......"takes a lickin' but keeps on tickin' ". The only reas

turboawd
06-09-2007, 01:35 AM
its unbelievable how strong the drive system is on these loaders.

Scag48
06-09-2007, 04:07 AM
Takeuchi has the longest track record building CTL's. I want to say they started in the early 90's, maybe even earlier than than that. I know they basically pioneered mini excavators in the late 70's and I'd wager they did the same with CTL's. They are excellent machines, I haven't heard a single complaint. My old man almost rented a TL130 for a month but decided it just wouldn't lift as much as he needed so he backed out on that plan.

turboawd
06-09-2007, 02:05 PM
My old man almost rented a TL130 for a month but decided it just wouldn't lift as much as he needed so he backed out on that plan.

if there was one weak link to these machines, i'd say it's the lift capacity. but this machine was designed mainly for pushing dirt, which it accels at.

AWJ Services
06-09-2007, 03:12 PM
My TL 140 has a ROC of 2000 pounds .
It handles wall block,pavers,sod ,etc easily.
For around 40k for an open machine there is really not much competition in that price range.