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View Full Version : Bermuda Grass removal/suppression


somo1
02-23-2006, 09:51 PM
I know this is an old thread. But I read through the old ones and I wanted to know how much luck or control and with what products anybody has used for the removal or suppression of Bermuda grass. I am in the transition zone and have cool season lawns with bermuda grass in them because of the warm summers. What chemicals have you used? When were they applied? (During transition?, spring,summer or fall?, what rate?, How often apart was it applied? what kind of control? How many seasons without it reappearing?.) I know these are alot of questions but I feel that anyone with this problem can benefit from your expertise. I have tried Round-up in late summer 3 apps. two weeks apart and have had no luck. And yes I do have a license!!!:usflag:

cemars
02-23-2006, 11:00 PM
I think you will find this topic has been pretty well covered if you search, but here is my experience. Bermuda must be actively growing to control, so you are looking at mid-late summer for best results. For selective control, Turflon mixed with Acclaim will put some serious hurt on bermuda but it takes mutiple applications per year over a couple of years to control and makes the cool season grass look like crap. For non-selective control, start a couple of weeks before a chemical app, fert Bermuda areas of the lawn and make sure they are getting plenty of water to keep them growing strong. Then spray a combination of Round-up mixed with Ornamec or Fusilade at a 2-1 ratio. Check back in about 3 weeks to see if there is any sign of life and then re-spray if needed. Over the last 10 years I have gotten my success ratio (meaning no Bermuda 3 years later) up to about 80%, don't assume success if it looks clean the next year, just one or two sprigs can start a new crop. FYI, there is a new product coming in the next 1-2 years that should be better than anything you can mix up today. Good luck.

tjsquickcuts
02-24-2006, 12:26 AM
My suggestion, just start all over. Bermuda grass is the by far the worlds :weightlifter: grass....aka weed is some areas. I am in Atlanta, where Bermuda is the lawn grass of choice. Pretty easy to maintain as long as you follow schedule, but I have seen how Bermuda grows at its best. Bermuda grass will cover you driveway within a 5 years period if you let it. I layed some sod in a yard last year, and had some left over and didnt have a place to keep it. So i layed it out all over my concrete back driveway, and as long as I watered, it kept growing. My neighbor was amazed, and so was my wife because they both told me it would live longer then a week, and it lived for about 6 weeks before I used it on some lawns that needed some spots replaced. Oh, and yes, it blended right in.

upidstay
02-24-2006, 09:10 AM
I have found that a good shot of round up, mixed with Scythe, which is an acid, will take out just about any grass. We get some bermuda here in CT, and it is always a weed for us. Kill it and re seed with what you want.

cemars
02-24-2006, 10:53 AM
I have found that a good shot of round up, mixed with Scythe, which is an acid, will take out just about any grass. We get some bermuda here in CT, and it is always a weed for us. Kill it and re seed with what you want.

That combination will do less good than round up only on Bermuda. Sythe is good for quick kill, exactly what you don't want with Bermuda, remember that the control product needs to translocate through an extensive system of roots and tillers. Killing what you see is easy, its killing whats below ground that will determine long term success.

Az Gardener
02-24-2006, 11:15 AM
Fertilize the Bermuda, get it as big as you can, nitrogen only. Then spray it with round -up, the more foliage you have the more product is delivered to the roots and the better kill you will have. Keep watering and fertilizing you want the roots to exhaust themselves putting out more foliage for you to spray. You are looking at repeat applications for at least two months and then when you think it is finally dead, I use a product called Bermuda root killer too. Its a homeowner granular product from H/D or most local nurseries comes in a cardboard can with a shaker top. Also don't remove the brown foliage until you are done killing it. It is a long ugly process.

lilmarvin4064
02-24-2006, 05:05 PM
I don't know how many times I posted this on here, so here it is again.

Acclaim + Turflon ester + spreader sticker + a little soluble N (maybe 0.1 lb/1000)= no bermuda.

Apply 3 - 4 times per year for 2 years = >90% control. :drinkup:

somo1
02-24-2006, 10:53 PM
I don't know how many times I posted this on here, so here it is again.

Acclaim + Turflon ester + spreader sticker + a little soluble N (maybe 0.1 lb/1000)= no bermuda.

Apply 3 - 4 times per year for 2 years = >90% control. :drinkup:

Thanks Lilmarv I'll try that this year and next year on my own lawn before I start charging clients. I hope it works, nobody else is trying to get rid of it except with roundup, and as we all know that still comes back. Thanks for your help everyone.:walking:

YardPro
02-24-2006, 10:58 PM
vantage or fusilade is selective and works well.

Triple R
02-24-2006, 11:29 PM
Too bad Acclaim isn't registered in CA. Roundup + Fusilade works a lot better than just Roundup.

eruuska
03-04-2006, 10:51 PM
What if you want to kill Bermuda without killing the Fescue/KBG that it's invading? Fusilade? I have a customer who doesn't want to do the whole reseeding thing.

timturf
03-04-2006, 11:31 PM
I don't know how many times I posted this on here, so here it is again.

Acclaim + Turflon ester + spreader sticker + a little soluble N (maybe 0.1 lb/1000)= no bermuda.

Apply 3 - 4 times per year for 2 years = >90% control. :drinkup:


Good advice, but at what rates?

Jason Rose
03-05-2006, 12:01 AM
Iv'e never heard of mixing acclaim and the turflon ester until this post... I have used turflon ester with a sticker in my own lawn and had decent results with suppression but definatley NOT killing it. I know another guy who uses acclaim only now after some BAD side effects from spraying turflon ester around some trees, as in it killed them or parts of them!

I have NUMEROUS customers that would love to hear of a way to kill bermuda without having to kill everything! Most have patches that are just really starting that we know will eventually take over...

I would like to know your exact rates per 1,000 as well (and gallons per 1,000) If nothing else I would like to see if I can irridacate it from my own lawn. May well be too costly a mix to sell to very many people though.

timturf
03-05-2006, 12:06 AM
they both suppress bermundagrass

Jason Rose
03-05-2006, 12:12 AM
they both suppress bermundagrass

I know that... But is one really better than the other, and is mixing the two creating something that will actually kill it out over time? Acclaim costs probably 4 times as much as turflon ester. The cost is the worst part, and then it has to be applied 3 to 4 times a season... Not too many customers are going to be willing to pay for something like that. The cost to spray that for a season would be about what it would cost to round-up and re-seed.

timturf
03-05-2006, 12:15 AM
I know that... But is one really better than the other, and is mixing the two creating something that will actually kill it out over time? Acclaim costs probably 4 times as much as turflon ester. The cost is the worst part, and then it has to be applied 3 to 4 times a season... Not too many customers are going to be willing to pay for something like that. The cost to spray that for a season would be about what it would cost to round-up and re-seed.

But that won't kill it!

mix the two, a must, >90% control, need 4 applications, maybe a couple the next season.

timing a must

msuturfgrad
03-05-2006, 08:18 AM
Tupersan(siduron) When Bermuda Is Actively Growing. Will Take Multiple Apps.

lilmarvin4064
03-06-2006, 10:11 AM
Acclaim is the main ingredient. Mix at around 0.46 oz / 1000. Turflon boots the the performance like 10% to 15%, but really isn't that great on its own. I think I mixed it about 1/3 oz per 1000, I'll double check in a couple months.

Start when the bermuda comes out of dormancy. Respray about every month. It will kill all the bermuda's topgrowth without harming fescue, but the bermuda will come back and you need to keep applying. Drought conditions might decrease your control.

vegomatic40
03-07-2006, 12:02 AM
Yep, 2 apps of Glyphosate in late summer followed by slitseed/overseed in the early fall and Fusilade at time of emergence will go a long way but "eradication" is nearly impossbile. I think the biggest factors that are overlooked is the way common Bermuda reproduces-stolons, rhizomes and then you have to contend with seeds from the previous season (not sure how long they stay viable, apparently decades LOL) Tough beast to tame in full sun lawns. My own lawn and several customers of mine have the right balance of shade with properly pruned, mature trees. Also cutting high (3 1/2-4") in Fescue can help provide a canopy to discourage some Bermuda developement. Pop it with fert. at the wrong time and Bermuda changes from a nuisance to a lifestyle...get used to it. Biggest problem with using Fusilade only is the lack of turf remaining.
If the Bermuda is dense, you may get good control with 2 well-timed apps. but what is left? Nothing to compete with B.leafs/grassy weeds then you are back where you started. Works well in dense Fescue lawns with only a few spots of Berm. but arbitrary apps. of Fusilade, Turflon Ester, Acclaim etc. can stress the desirable turf and leave the tough-as-nails Bermuda largely intact. Be VERY selective.

Jason Rose
03-07-2006, 12:22 AM
Ive' heard from various sources that bermuda grass seeds can remain viable for 8 years.

vegomatic, i have to agree with you... Also, you can keep it out pretty well if you always have ampke water for good fescue turf available. Mow at the the right heights, provide good fert and water and bermuda can't get a good hold. but ANY stressed areas in a lawn are an open invitation for the bermuda to take hold again.

lilmarvin4064
03-07-2006, 02:58 PM
Yeah, If you are trying to convert an entire lawn, in full sun, from bermuda to fescue, forget about it! You can have some pretty good success with smaller patches.

I have a customer that I converted his entire front lawn to bermuda (full sun, overseeded w/rye in winter) and his backyard to fescue (suppresed a few bermuda patches in the sunny areas) and it is holding up really well. I'm going to follow up again with it this year we'll see how it goes.

Basically, if you have a large area of bermuda, don't try to fight it. If it is just a few small patches, give it try and tell your customer that it is a long, expensive process.

somo1
03-07-2006, 03:06 PM
Yeah, If you are trying to convert an entire lawn, in full sun, from bermuda to fescue, forget about it! You can have some pretty good success with smaller patches.

I have a customer that I converted his entire front lawn to bermuda (full sun, overseeded w/rye in winter) and his backyard to fescue (suppresed a few bermuda patches in the sunny areas) and it is holding up really well. I'm going to follow up again with it this year we'll see how it goes.

Basically, if you have a large area of bermuda, don't try to fight it. If it is just a few small patches, give it try and tell your customer that it is a long, expensive process.

After I established this post I did some research on the subject and found a study done in 1997 by NC state University. Do a search under Bermuda grass suppresion/removal and find the study. They had alot of useful information on the subject and tested several different chemicals and rates.

sprayman73703
03-08-2006, 12:04 AM
I have never had Acclaim and Turflon cause any damage to fescues or ryegrasses at all. It really does put the hurt on the bermuda. I use a Prolawn sprayer which is a low volume sprayer instead of the high volume hand wand and hose systems the bulk of the applicators on this board. The Prolawn is a much more accurate application. That may be why some guys have some cool season damage.

Jason Rose
03-08-2006, 12:12 AM
Iv'e only used a hand can type sprayer for turflon ester...

And you have it back wards. You are more likely to damage the turf with low volume rates than you are high volume rates. Low volume = higher concentration of ai per gallon of water = more susceptible to burning sensitive leaves. High volume = less ai. per gallon of water = less likelihood of damage.

Both are assuming you are applying the correct amount of ai per 1,000 sq. ft. of turf

Bryn
03-27-2006, 11:38 PM
Do a search under my user name Bryn and you will see the results that I have got from Acclaim Extra with Turflon Ester. Also note another thread of mine about Fusillade not being labeled for Residential Lawns. Gordon's Ornamec I believe is the same AI and is labeled for Residential lawns. When I spoke with the Scientists at Syngenta about the Fusillade label, they said that the product could cause too much harm to cool season, and did not want the bad publicity. Use Ornamec in spring and fall to knock the Bermuda.

Bryn

Cheryl
07-28-2006, 07:56 AM
I don't know how many times I posted this on here, so here it is again.

Acclaim + Turflon ester + spreader sticker + a little soluble N (maybe 0.1 lb/1000)= no bermuda.

Apply 3 - 4 times per year for 2 years = >90% control. :drinkup:
lilmarvin, I'm guessing you use the label rates for the Acclaim, Turflon ester, and sticker? :dizzy: What type of grass did you apply this on?

lilmarvin4064
07-31-2006, 02:28 PM
yes, however you can mix the turflon up to 3/4 oz / 1000. This was sprayed primarily on fescue.

turfsolutions
07-31-2006, 10:02 PM
I had bermuda grass take over a 200 square foot section of my own lawn every year starting in mid July. It starts with a few areas then takes over by the end of August. I tried killing all with roundup and reseeding twice but it always comes back with a vengence the next year. Last year I mixed Fusilad with ornamec as recommended on this site. I reseeded the area and the lawn filled in great as always. The true test came a few weeks ago when I usually start seeing it pop up all over the area. So far only 1/2 square foot section showed up with bermuda grass. I sprayed immediately with fusilad and it browned it out with no effect on the surrounding cool season grass. No other bermuda grass has shown up so far. I am going to spot treat those few customers that request it, a seperate charge of course.

Triple R
08-07-2006, 12:26 AM
I had bermuda grass take over a 200 square foot section of my own lawn every year starting in mid July. It starts with a few areas then takes over by the end of August. I tried killing all with roundup and reseeding twice but it always comes back with a vengence the next year. Last year I mixed Fusilad with ornamec as recommended on this site. I reseeded the area and the lawn filled in great as always. The true test came a few weeks ago when I usually start seeing it pop up all over the area. So far only 1/2 square foot section showed up with bermuda grass. I sprayed immediately with fusilad and it browned it out with no effect on the surrounding cool season grass. No other bermuda grass has shown up so far. I am going to spot treat those few customers that request it, a seperate charge of course.



What rate are you going at with the Fusilade. Does temp make a difference, our high temps are currently in the mid 90s


Triple R

Bryn
08-07-2006, 01:32 PM
Triple R,

Please read my post five posts up.

Ornamec may be a better choice than fusillade as the label is not so strict. Also 90 temps is not good for either Ornamec or Fusillade, wait until the fall.

Best Regards

Bryn

turfsolutions
08-09-2006, 08:44 PM
The rates are very small, almost too small to measure. It comes to 3 or 4 drops of Fusilad per gallon. I sprayed when there was plenty of moisture in the ground and temps were in the 80's. Since then it has been pretty dry and in the 90's. Where I have sprayed Fusilad, the tall fescue has been stunted, however, everything is slowing down due to the rain, just more so where I sprayed Fusilad.

To update, nothing that I sprayed came back. I saw one more shoot pop up in another spot and treated that with Fusilad. I think the way to go with customers that are having Bermuda grass problems is to wait until about 10 days away from aeration and overseeding and treat the bermuda grass areas with the mixture of Fusilad and Ornamec explaining to the customer that there will be turf browning. Then next year spot treat as soon as it starts to pop up. Charge accordingly of course.

eruuska
08-09-2006, 08:58 PM
Friday I spot-sprayed Acclaim on patches of Bermuda on a customer's lawn. Tuesday I stopped by to check, and the Bermuda is seriously browning. I'm going to start seeding here in the next few days, hopefully it'll do the trick.

tsh1773
08-24-2006, 10:11 AM
I sprayed my fescue lawn with Turflon yesterday to remove the bermuda. Today I called the local Lesco to get a price on Acclaim ($93.74/pt). I asked if he recommended mixing Turflon and Acclaim to remove the bermuda. He said no. He recommended Spraying with roundup weekly for 4 weeks and overseeding in September. He said anything strong enough to kill the bermuda would kill the fescue anyway and with that being said roundup is alot cheaper than acclaim.

lilmarvin4064
08-25-2006, 02:25 PM
I sprayed my fescue lawn with Turflon yesterday to remove the bermuda. Today I called the local Lesco to get a price on Acclaim ($93.74/pt). I asked if he recommended mixing Turflon and Acclaim to remove the bermuda. He said no. He recommended Spraying with roundup weekly for 4 weeks and overseeding in September. He said anything strong enough to kill the bermuda would kill the fescue anyway and with that being said roundup is alot cheaper than acclaim.

There's no reason not to mix Turflon and Acclaim. Acclaim shouldn't be mixed with Phenoxy herbicides, like 2,4-D. Turflon (triclopyr ester) is a non-phenoxy. I disagree with the statement that "anything strong enough to kill the bermuda would kill the fescue anyway." That might be true right now but it would depend on the weather; how stressed is the fescue (temperature, drought). However I do agree that Round-up would be the best option right now considering that it is a lot more economical (cheaper), its late in the season, fescue is stressed, and you are going to overseed anyway (no residual w/round-up). Use the Turflon+Acclaim mix next year when the bermuda breaks dormancy. I have used this mix on 6 week-old fescue in 75-80 degree temps with no ill effects.

Big Chicago
08-26-2006, 02:11 AM
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1396/6373910/12358963/181457922.jpg