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imdawrlus
02-25-2006, 12:20 AM
i was at home depot the other day and i noticed they have a "Z" with 50 inch cut for $3000.....i dont remember the brand...toro maby? but anyways, does anyone know if their any good??

jtkplc
02-25-2006, 12:26 AM
For commercial use?
NO, any homeowner model mower will not hold up to the punishment of commercial use, period.

captken
02-25-2006, 12:30 AM
Both you and your [potential] customer {customers} will most likely not notice any difference at all between owning this and buying something that probably will probably cost more than your current ride [vehicle] I am assuming [of course] that you do NOT presently own a bicycle as your primary means of locomotion...:sleeping:

Brianslawn
02-25-2006, 12:33 AM
i saw the toro at lowes today. 23 hp briggs, like 50 or 52" cut for $3000. engine alone is worth half that. i almost thought about adding a few to the fleet. i would like to know if anyone has actually got one and used it, how long it lasted, etc. looked pretty simple to work on and we can do any repairs.

Brianslawn
02-25-2006, 12:35 AM
You and your [potential] customers will not notice any difference between buying this and buying something that probably cost more than your current vehicle.:sleeping:


i know mine could care less what the mower costs, just as long as they can save a buck or 2 on mowing.

Jpocket
02-25-2006, 12:35 AM
Yea it'd be go for about a month on my route, and a day on some of the large companies routes.

Brianslawn
02-25-2006, 12:38 AM
you can get one, use it for the summer, then take it back and exchange it for a new one! :laugh:

captken
02-25-2006, 12:44 AM
i know mine could care less what the mower costs, just as long as they can save a buck or 2 on mowing.

My point exactly. But, [however] you should know better....:) How much will it eventually cost you?

When its broke, and you need it, and you can't do their job...they will call a new "mow boy...."

burns60
02-25-2006, 12:45 AM
i was at home depot the other day and i noticed they have a "Z" with 50 inch cut for $3000.....i dont remember the brand...toro maby? but anyways, does anyone know if their any good??
Probably a great mower for cutting your own yard, but they (Home Depot or Toro) should be the first to tell you that these aren't commercial grade mowers. But, personally, if I wasn't even in the mowing business I would never own anything but a commercial grade mower, now that I know the difference.

Also, you have got to remember that Home Depot will not service this mower.

Brianslawn
02-25-2006, 01:00 AM
When its broke, and you need it, and you can't do their job...they will call a new "mow boy...."


mine wont. i got 7 walkers to back it up. :weightlifter:

Madstriper
02-25-2006, 01:04 AM
The mower in question is a Cub Cadet. It is indeed a homeowner model.
They come with a two year warranty, serviced by any MTD dealer, yes MTD makes this mower. They also make a near identicaly mower, besides the color and engine, its a White brand.
Now we know that in no way could a mower made by MTD ever mow grass very well. With its wimpy 22hp Kawi Vtwin engine, couldnt last more than a week mowing any "real" grass like on commercial accounts.
It will only run 5.5 MPH, has Dual Hydro-Gear™ EZT technology, not that I know what this is. It does have a stamped, as in not commerical deck with 3 blades.
This mower would serve a part timer well, if it fit his needs. It wont last 10 working 40 hours a week, but it might help make the jump from 21" push mowers to real commercial mowers a little easier. You wont be able to get the warranty covered for the two years if you use it commercially, and I am sure no one would ever lie, not anyone legit anyway.

captken
02-25-2006, 01:15 AM
i saw the toro at lowes today. 23 hp briggs, like 50 or 52" cut for $3000. engine alone is worth half that. i thought about adding a few to the fleet. looked pretty simple to work on and we can do any repairs.

go for it,....Oh, and please, do keep us informed;)

mike lane lawn care
02-25-2006, 01:32 AM
i looked at the ZTR at home depot and it looked nice, but i didn't like all of the plastic parts on it, i also didn't like the way the deck was hung on the mower, looked kind of flimsy. just my opinion.

befnme
02-25-2006, 01:58 AM
they are prob made to only cut 108 lawns ..that is your lawn 36 times per year for 3 years .heck you prob cut that many in 1 week . they are made to break so you will buy another one .dont buy it.

captken
02-25-2006, 02:07 AM
i looked at the ZTR at home depot and it looked nice, but i didn't like all of the plastic parts on it, i also didn't like the way the deck was hung on the mower, looked kind of flimsy. just my opinion.

Thank you for your professional observations Mr. Peabody..

K.Carothers
02-25-2006, 08:19 AM
i know mine could care less what the mower costs, just as long as they can save a buck or 2 on mowing.

That is true.

YardPro
02-25-2006, 08:39 AM
i saw the toro at lowes today. 23 hp briggs, like 50 or 52" cut for $3000. engine alone is worth half that. i almost thought about adding a few to the fleet. i would like to know if anyone has actually got one and used it, how long it lasted, etc. looked pretty simple to work on and we can do any repairs.




anytime you go cheap on equipment, it ALWAYS costs you more in the long run

ATVracer
02-25-2006, 10:59 AM
I have the exact mower you are talking about, and it has held up very fine since I have had it. Technology gets better as years go on. I imagine this Cub Cadet mower is better than commercial ones that were made say 10 years ago. I'll take my 3 K mower and use it for 3 years or so and make 30 k with it. Then with all that $ go buy a commercial unit. I can't see spending 5-8k on a commercial mower when starting out. I'll spend my leftover $ on professional signage, advertising and accessories.

bigjeeping
02-25-2006, 11:36 AM
Take it from me, a guy who made the mistake of buying one of these models.

The stamped deck sucks, the machine sucks. Barely made it through one season. Selling it now.

DeereHauler
02-25-2006, 11:43 AM
anytime you go cheap on equipment, it ALWAYS costs you more in the long run



i agree. it would cost me more money and down time taking it back to home depot for repairs then it would make mowing grass. my friend who works there asked the man assembling them what he thought about how they're built, and he just laughed, and said don't waste your money.

DSIM
02-25-2006, 12:13 PM
My mechanic has one right now he's repairing for some company. It lasted a month and then the hydro's went. The Toro Timecutter. Its defintely not for commercial use.

fga
02-25-2006, 01:48 PM
The stamped deck sucks, the machine sucks. Barely made it through one season. Selling it now.
:laugh: good selling pitch! i hope you didn't list it on LS..

P & L Turf
02-25-2006, 01:51 PM
Home Cheapo, oe is it Home Owner Depot? It's all home owner crap!!!:) I wouldn't even consider buying a piece of equipment from there like that. That stuff is built for the homeowner with a big corner lot whos only cutting for an hour or so once a week. It'll never hold up to the abuse our equipment goes through.

samk
02-25-2006, 04:31 PM
I have the exact mower you are talking about, and it has held up very fine since I have had it. Technology gets better as years go on. I imagine this Cub Cadet mower is better than commercial ones that were made say 10 years ago. I'll take my 3 K mower and use it for 3 years or so and make 30 k with it. Then with all that $ go buy a commercial unit. I can't see spending 5-8k on a commercial mower when starting out. I'll spend my leftover $ on professional signage, advertising and accessories.

If your only making 10k a year with it then you are not really using it. One of those comercial mowers would probally last over a decade at that pace while yours is only lasting 3yrs or so.

Woody82986
02-25-2006, 05:05 PM
Not to mention in addition to samk's comment, that $3,000 mower doesn't have near the quality cut as a commercial mower. I'm not saying it won't cut grass, I'm just saying that it won't cut grass like a commercial mower can. It's all in the results...

justanotherlawnguy
02-25-2006, 05:58 PM
If you want to be professional, buy professional equipment. Just spend the money up front for a good ZTR.

i dont know what the warranty is on those, but i suppose it does not cover commercial use.

I am sure the home depot/lowes z would be great for a little bit, but under heavy use it will probably die. They are not idiots in customer service at those stores, try taking it for warranty work and the machine looks like you have cut a 100 yards that week, it wont take long to figure out that it is being used for commercial use.

After a year of use and it dies, then you will wish you had spent that original $3k on a proper Z.

I know I will get flamed for saying this, but i am going to anyway: It is like guys that spend the money on lawn tractors as their main mower, it drives me crazy.

2nd thought, go ahead and buy it, and when it breaks down and you cant keep up with business they will call me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

samk
02-25-2006, 06:24 PM
[QUOTE=justanotherlawnguy]
: It is like guys that spend the money on lawn tractors as their main mower, it drives me crazy.

I laugh every time i see one drive by. How can you possibly be efficeint with one of thos things

mike lane lawn care
02-25-2006, 06:32 PM
[QUOTE=justanotherlawnguy]
: It is like guys that spend the money on lawn tractors as their main mower, it drives me crazy.

I laugh every time i see one drive by. How can you possibly be efficeint with one of thos things

i Use a tractor and am very efficient, A ZTR serves me no purpose for the lawns that i take care of. just because you don't use one doesn't mean it's not good for someone else

Woody82986
02-25-2006, 07:16 PM
What type of lawns are you doing that a ZTR wouldn't be more efficient Mike?

nobagger
02-25-2006, 07:21 PM
I'm sure the engine would hold up, but as far as the rest of the mower I'm not so sure. I could see a 21"er but a Z turn rider? I think the first couple of hard hits to something it's gonna be toast.:laugh: I would rather buy a decent used commercial or save up and buy the real thing.

lawnmaniac883
02-25-2006, 07:35 PM
I almost made the mistake of buying one of those timecutter machines from home cheapo. I was just starting out and needed a ztr for sure. I was looking at the tractors at home depot, John Deere and the like and knew that I would be screwed trying to use one of those every day. Saw the time cutter, liked the price, then wised up and visited some real dealers in the area. Looked at toro, overpriced, dixon, POS, then found my gravely 44z. The price was right and the machine is well built.

mike lane lawn care
02-25-2006, 09:32 PM
What type of lawns are you doing that a ZTR wouldn't be more efficient Mike?

in my area almost all of the lawns have STEEP hills that a ZTR would not do well on, plus the versatility of a tractor more than outweighs it's 14" turning radius. Now I will probably get a million responses of people picking apart this saying that i am wrong and no tractor could ever compare to a ZTR, trust me, for my area a tractor is just as good as, if not better than a ZTR

captken
02-25-2006, 09:37 PM
in my area almost all of the lawns have STEEP hills that a ZTR would not do well on, plus the versatility of a tractor more than outweighs it's 14" turning radius. Now I will probably get a million responses of people picking apart this saying that i am wrong and no tractor could ever compare to a ZTR, trust me, for my area a tractor is just as good as, if not better than a ZTR

With one whole year experience, I'd say you are quiet the authority on this subject.
:waving:

mike lane lawn care
02-25-2006, 09:45 PM
With one whole year experience, I'd say you are quiet the authority on this subject.
:waving:

I may have only one year experience but i have talked to several people who are family friends and have been in the lawn care industry for 30+ years, and they all say that a good tractor around here is just as good as ZTR that costs 3 times as much. You sure do like to pick apart my responses, this is just how the geography is around here, i should know, i live here

mike lane lawn care
02-25-2006, 09:46 PM
P.S. i have done months of research before buying my products, and i looked at several commercial walkbehinds and ZTR's

captken
02-25-2006, 10:16 PM
I may have only one year experience but i have talked to several people who are family friends and have been in the lawn care industry for 30+ years, and they all say that a good tractor around here is just as good as ZTR that costs 3 times as much. You sure do like to pick apart my responses, this is just how the geography is around here, i should know, i live here

Look dude,
You are 16 years old....young and dumb and probably...not yet full of.....:eek:

you are still a minor. Listen and learn.

Brianslawn
02-25-2006, 10:29 PM
in my area almost all of the lawns have STEEP hills that a ZTR would not do well on, plus the versatility of a tractor more than outweighs it's 14" turning radius. Now I will probably get a million responses of people picking apart this saying that i am wrong and no tractor could ever compare to a ZTR, trust me, for my area a tractor is just as good as, if not better than a ZTR



id like to see your tractor on the steep yards here i do with a walker. everyone else push mows them. not trying to pick you apart, but captken just may have a point.

Fantasy Lawns
02-25-2006, 10:34 PM
http://fantasylawns.com/2515_S_Trop_4.jpg

This ain't too steep fore one of my Walkers or my Dixie or my Lazer

mike lane lawn care
02-25-2006, 10:34 PM
captken
I will give you this final post and then i will drop it, I do listen and i do learn a great deal from lawn site. I understand that a ZTR is verry effiecient, i understand that it will mow circles around any tractor on the market, and i understand that some people believe you can't be a professional if you don't have one. But as i have stated, my area calls for either a HUGE ZTR to navigate the steep hills, or a heavy tractor. My preference is with the tractors, it's not that i am the young dumb kid down the street (well maybe i am, but thats a different topic) and it's not like i am pulling this stuff out of my a**, i have demo-ed a simplicity Stallion, and a snapper ZTR on some of my hilliest properties and the tractor does do a little better, especialy since the ZTR tends to "run away" on large hills. So, i do appreciate all of the advice i have been getting from lawnsite, but people seem to look at my profile and see my age and say "what the f*** could he possibly know, he's only 16" and then pick apart every one of my OPINIONS(thats all they are, my oppinions).

well i think i've ranted enough for one day
see ya later captken :-)

mike lane lawn care
02-25-2006, 10:39 PM
id like to see your tractor on the steep yards here i do with a walker. everyone else push mows them. not trying to pick you apart, but captken just may have a point.

next month when i start mowing/spring cleanup, i'llm post a picture of my steepest hill, it is waaaaay steeper than the 15 degree limit in the manual

Brianslawn
02-25-2006, 10:42 PM
captken
I will give you this final post and then i will drop it, I do listen and i do learn a great deal from lawn site. I understand that a ZTR is verry effiecient, i understand that it will mow circles around any tractor on the market, and i understand that some people believe you can't be a professional if you don't have one. But as i have stated, my area calls for either a HUGE ZTR to navigate the steep hills, or a heavy tractor. My preference is with the tractors, it's not that i am the young dumb kid down the street (well maybe i am, but thats a different topic) and it's not like i am pulling this stuff out of my a**, i have demo-ed a simplicity Stallion, and a snapper ZTR on some of my hilliest properties and the tractor does do a little better, especialy since the ZTR tends to "run away" on large hills. So, i do appreciate all of the advice i have been getting from lawnsite, but people seem to look at my profile and see my age and say "what the f*** could he possibly know, he's only 16" and then pick apart every one of my OPINIONS(thats all they are, my oppinions).

well i think i've ranted enough for one day
see ya later captken :-)



you dont have to use a z to be professional. i know people that do that i wouldnt consider professional. whatever mower suits your needs and budget is the one you should use.

i would like to have a hill mowing contest, though. one of my walkers against anyones tractor.

fantasy- i dont got any pics, but i go twice as steep as that easily. nice yard, though.

Brianslawn
02-25-2006, 10:45 PM
next month when i start mowing/spring cleanup, i'llm post a picture of my steepest hill, it is waaaaay steeper than the 15 degree limit in the manual


cool. i'll post mine too, then. 45-60 degree hills around here. i mow side to side too.

have a good night, mike.:waving:

mike lane lawn care
02-25-2006, 10:46 PM
you dont have to use a z to be professional. i know people that do that i wouldnt consider professional. whatever mower suits your needs and budget is the one you should use.

THANK YOU !!

lawnmaniac883
02-25-2006, 10:46 PM
cool. i'll post mine too, then. 45-60 degree hills around here. i mow side to side too.

have a good night, mike.:waving:


You cant be serious...that is insane if ya really did mow a 50 degree hill side to side ;) ;)

captken
02-25-2006, 10:56 PM
next month when i start mowing/spring cleanup, i'llm post a picture of my steepest hill, it is waaaaay steeper than the 15 degree limit in the manual

This is the God awful post from 2004 concerning mowing on 45 degree angles....It is not pretty..but informative...

From the Lawnsite archives....http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=68647&highlight=45+degree

stayed up almost a year edit, [more than a year]...some interesting pictures, if you care to read through it.

Brianslawn
02-25-2006, 10:56 PM
You cant be serious...that is insane if ya really did mow a 50 degree hill side to side ;) ;)


i go for the thrill rides! ive lost traction before and slid down bacwards. im good enough now to spin an get back on track right away. i'll even mow while holding a can of pop in my free hand on some of them. i'll show you what the handles on the walker deck are really for!!!

mulcahy mowing
02-25-2006, 11:05 PM
i go for the thrill rides! ive lost traction before and slid down bacwards. im good enough now to spin an get back on track right away. i'll even mow while holding a can of pop in my free hand on some of them. i'll show you what the handles on the walker deck are really for!!!
lol I cant wait to see those pics:) :weightlifter:

MMLawn
02-25-2006, 11:12 PM
mine wont. i got 7 walkers to back it up. :weightlifter:


Didn't you mean to say that your boss has 7 Walkers...... :laugh:

Brianslawn
02-25-2006, 11:25 PM
my boss is an @$$. i dont like to talk about him.

so how bout them steelers? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

K.Carothers
02-25-2006, 11:31 PM
http://fantasylawns.com/2515_S_Trop_4.jpg

This ain't too steep fore one of my Walkers or my Dixie or my Lazer

Hell, that is considered flat here in the burgh ;)

kc

Brianslawn
02-25-2006, 11:39 PM
vipermanz pics on 45 degree link listed is what i do one handed while sippin root beer (sideways, too).

lawnagent
02-26-2006, 01:21 AM
ZTR's will tend to freewheel on a bank more than a tractor, TILL you have the ZTR long enough to get the hang of it. I have been in business since 1993. I mowed with a tractor till 1998 when I bought my first ZTR. A ZTR will hang a hill a tractor never dreamed of once you learn to operate it. I have done it for several years both ways. So I know about this.

captken
02-26-2006, 01:44 AM
ZTR's will tend to freewheel on a bank more than a tractor, TILL you have the ZTR long enough to get the hang of it. I have been in business since 1993. I mowed with a tractor till 1998 when I bought my first ZTR. A ZTR will hang a hill a tractor never dreamed of once you learn to operate it. I have done it for several years both ways. So I know about this.

Thank you and I am truly sorry If I contributed to opening a can of worms....however, that link was where my head was at in 2004.:)

lawnagent
02-26-2006, 02:30 AM
Sorry, my post was intended for the kid who thought his tractor benefited him more than a Z would. He said he demo'd a Z and it freewheeled on hills.:)

mowergal
02-26-2006, 12:35 PM
Lowes has the Troybilt brand which is now owned by MTD just for homeowners. Home Depot has the Toro brand that is just made for homeowners, also something I found out from my Toro dealer is that there is a tractor being sold that has Toro's name on it but is made by MTD. :nono:

gslawncare
02-26-2006, 01:19 PM
A deere salesman said they were doing that at home creapo. first the wheel motor is only light duty so, don't try runnin' it longer than 1 day a week. That's what its built for.

mike lane lawn care
02-26-2006, 02:15 PM
ZTR's will tend to freewheel on a bank more than a tractor, TILL you have the ZTR long enough to get the hang of it. I have been in business since 1993. I mowed with a tractor till 1998 when I bought my first ZTR. A ZTR will hang a hill a tractor never dreamed of once you learn to operate it. I have done it for several years both ways. So I know about this.

Thanks for clearing a few things up:) the ZTR's that i demo-ed were only for a few days each, so i'm sure that if i spent more time with it, a Z would have proven me more useful. However, for the time being my personal preference is a tratcor, as mine has traction control and has versatility for attachments (tiller, plow, grader, aerater) and serves me just fine for now, but in the future you guys may be reading a post of me looking for the best deal on a ZTR.:laugh:
I enjoyed this little debate of ours and hope to do it again someday:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

nmez21
02-26-2006, 02:23 PM
I just checked out the local lowes and all they have is a 50" 23hp troy-bilt that looks a bit like a toro. then again my place always gets the last shipments of eveyrhting.

lawnagent
02-26-2006, 03:16 PM
Thanks for clearing a few things up:) the ZTR's that i demo-ed were only for a few days each, so i'm sure that if i spent more time with it, a Z would have proven me more useful. However, for the time being my personal preference is a tratcor, as mine has traction control and has versatility for attachments (tiller, plow, grader, aerater) and serves me just fine for now, but in the future you guys may be reading a post of me looking for the best deal on a ZTR.:laugh:
I enjoyed this little debate of ours and hope to do it again someday:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Well now if you actually USE the attatchments your tractor is capable of, that is a TOTALLY different scenario. No one here should come out and say you are using the wrong piece of equipment if you are using attatchments on your tractor for your business. You didn't say anything about that earlier but that changes everything.:)

Shawns Lawns
02-26-2006, 04:20 PM
Lowes has the Troybilt brand which is now owned by MTD just for homeowners. Home Depot has the Toro brand that is just made for homeowners, also something I found out from my Toro dealer is that there is a tractor being sold that has Toro's name on it but is made by MTD. :nono:
I know for sure all the decks on the Toro's at home depot are MTD and i believe the whole unit is as well.:waving:

samk
02-26-2006, 06:59 PM
the tractors selling at home depot are cubs (MTD) they sit right next to them and look almost identical. the time cutter I believe is not made by MTD

Brianslawn
02-26-2006, 09:04 PM
i believe all those lowes and home cheapo mowers mentioned except for deere are same company. either acquired by mtd or they consolidated for better mass production (more profitt while offering a lower price).

i could be wrong, though.

flman
02-26-2006, 09:08 PM
the tractors selling at home depot are cubs (MTD) they sit right next to them and look almost identical. the time cutter I believe is not made by MTD

Time cutter is Toro. As far as an opinion on anything bought at the box stores the service after the sale is going to suck:hammerhead: ,and repairing these mowers will cost alot more than the normal tractor. If you want a good ztr buy it from the guy who you are going to have service it. Just my 2-cents:drinkup:.