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View Full Version : For those of you netting $200k or more....


lawncutterupper
03-01-2006, 05:18 AM
Im am curious of what your approximate rate of growth was. Im only looking for a simple year by year estimate, something like 1st year 15k,2nd year 25k, 3rd year-50k, 5th year-100k, 10th year 200k or however youd like to tell me. Thanks in advance for any input.

YardPro
03-01-2006, 07:16 AM
net $200K is really good.
you sure you do not mean gross??

We did 1/2 mill on sales and only netted just over $50K

Precision
03-01-2006, 07:52 AM
Netting $200K would mean you did about $2-2.5 million in sales and you had good control on expenses.

I would guess there are very few people on here netting that amount and the path to attaining that will be very different for each.

Do they do mostly install work?
Do they do mostly hardscapes?
Do they do mainly full service resi?
Do they do mainly mow and blow?
Do they do mainly commercial?

How do you fit into what they do?

As far as gross goes, My first year out and mostly solo, I did about 85K. Netted about Zero. Year two I did about 160K according to quickbooks, netted about Zero. Both years it was due to growth, equipment purchases, giving myself pay raises and a few bad decisions. Next year is also a year of growth, so I don't expect my net to be too exciting, but I hope to have my second company take off and hopefully double my gross again this season.

With stricter cost controls in place I hope to squeeze some net out despite the growth curve.

The thing is if you want a high net you need a high gross. In order to have a high gross, you need to grow. Growth costs money so you net goes away. But at some point the growth curve slows and if you are smart, the net really jumps. My guess would be it would take 5-7 years minimum to get to that point.

LwnmwrMan22
03-01-2006, 08:44 AM
Netting $200K would mean you did about $2-2.5 million in sales and you had good control on expenses.

I would guess there are very few people on here netting that amount and the path to attaining that will be very different for each.

Do they do mostly install work?
Do they do mostly hardscapes?
Do they do mainly full service resi?
Do they do mainly mow and blow?
Do they do mainly commercial?

How do you fit into what they do?

As far as gross goes, My first year out and mostly solo, I did about 85K. Netted about Zero. Year two I did about 160K according to quickbooks, netted about Zero. Both years it was due to growth, equipment purchases, giving myself pay raises and a few bad decisions. Next year is also a year of growth, so I don't expect my net to be too exciting, but I hope to have my second company take off and hopefully double my gross again this season.

With stricter cost controls in place I hope to squeeze some net out despite the growth curve.

The thing is if you want a high net you need a high gross. In order to have a high gross, you need to grow. Growth costs money so you net goes away. But at some point the growth curve slows and if you are smart, the net really jumps. My guess would be it would take 5-7 years minimum to get to that point.

Many many variables here to put somewhat of a blanket statement, but I would agree with your 5-7 year point, ballpark.

This is my 18th year.

Due to the fact I started my business when I was 16, with no knowledge of ANYTHING, other than how to mow all week so I could build a $7000 stereo system in my '94 Dodge Ram full size pickup, it took me a little longer.

This was before Al Gore invented the internet, so there were no sites like this to bounce ideas off of people.

Anyways, most people on here say if you're not netting at least 30%, you're doing something wrong.

IMO, as you get bigger, your net will get proportionally smaller, depending of course the accounts that you acquire, or the jobs that you're able to perform, etc.

I'll start show some real net next year, but I too am spinning off another business, which my lawnmowing / snowplowing COMPLETELY subsidizes for another 2 years, so, as large purchases have been made ($40,000 +), as those debts come off the books over the next year to two, the net will really add up.

However, I believe in tax breaks, so I'm sure I'll find more stuff to take it's place.

But if you get back to the point about 30% net. I suppose if you were doing $1M gross, you MIGHT net $200k, but you'll have to have some VERY nice contracts, whether it's large maintenance, or lucrative installs, because the equipment / labor cost alone, never mind insurance, fuel, other expenses, will eat into that $1M drastically.

I'm in the same ballpark as Precision, doing just under $100k gross in 6 months working solo, but I net somewhere $25-35k / year.

Jpocket
03-01-2006, 08:48 AM
I can tell you that the jumps from $50K-100K and the Jump from 100K -200K, are going to be the hard ones, because it's gonna cost you more money to do.

$25k-$50K is easy

kc2006
03-01-2006, 08:54 AM
Just talk to Mac, 200K is pocket change for him. :D

Az Gardener
03-01-2006, 09:08 AM
The other thing to keep in mind is what is your objective? Get the company showing profit to sell it? For me it is to make the company work for my family, so net is the farthest thing from my mind. I am working to find legal ways for the company to pay me and my children so we end up with little or no net. So tax's are less. It's not what you make it's what you keep that is important.

Jpocket
03-01-2006, 09:08 AM
Just talk to Mac, 200K is pocket change for him. :D

LOL I believe it....I think there are few few others on here in that neighborhood too.

JustMowIt
03-01-2006, 09:46 AM
Netting $200K would mean you did about $2-2.5 million in sales and you had good control on expenses.

I would guess there are very few people on here netting that amount and the path to attaining that will be very different for each.

Do they do mostly install work?
Do they do mostly hardscapes?
Do they do mainly full service resi?
Do they do mainly mow and blow?
Do they do mainly commercial?

How do you fit into what they do?

As far as gross goes, My first year out and mostly solo, I did about 85K. Netted about Zero. Year two I did about 160K according to quickbooks, netted about Zero. Both years it was due to growth, equipment purchases, giving myself pay raises and a few bad decisions. Next year is also a year of growth, so I don't expect my net to be too exciting, but I hope to have my second company take off and hopefully double my gross again this season.

With stricter cost controls in place I hope to squeeze some net out despite the growth curve.

The thing is if you want a high net you need a high gross. In order to have a high gross, you need to grow. Growth costs money so you net goes away. But at some point the growth curve slows and if you are smart, the net really jumps. My guess would be it would take 5-7 years minimum to get to that point.

I agree to net $200K on 2M sales sounds about right if you are doing landscaping, hardscape, fertilizing etc. , since so much of those gross sales dollars go to materials, managers, supervisors, plants, expensive heavy duty trucks, etc..... That is why large landscape companies have such huge sales figures 5, 6,7, 10 Million annually, but net dollars is only 10 or 11%.

This same math does not apply to companies who only mow, net dollars is about twice that on poorly run operations and 3 times that on well run operations that watch expenses

TJ

The landscaper
03-01-2006, 10:04 AM
Az Gardener, what type of entity do you have set up? Just curious as to what you mean by keeping the ne low to get around some taxes.

LwnmwrMan22
03-01-2006, 10:26 AM
The other thing to keep in mind is what is your objective? Get the company showing profit to sell it? For me it is to make the company work for my family, so net is the farthest thing from my mind. I am working to find legal ways for the company to pay me and my children so we end up with little or no net. So tax's are less. It's not what you make it's what you keep that is important.

Woohoo... someone else that's in it as I.


The landscaper -

I'm not going to speak for Az, but how I run my business this was running everything new, and buying everything that you need, for both now and in the future. It's investment in your own company.

I've bought a $40,000 firewood processor, even though I only sell $15,000 worth of firewood / year.

This machine is going to last me for 40 years, with the rate that I use it.

The hoses will rot off of it before I need to replace the machine.

However, when my 4 year old and my 9 month old are 12, 13, 15 etc., all this equipment will be here for them, so they do not have to worry about building a business. It'll be a turn key operation for the 2, hopefully they'll want to take over.

I've got new trucks, 2005 and 2003 Dodge Ram. I trade one, every other year, so when they're 4 years old, they have about 65-70k miles on them.

Now, it seems like alot, but once they're paid off, it's only $10-15k difference for a trade, so every other year, it's a deal for a new truck.

When the kids are old enough, they'll have a brand new truck to use for work, and in the meantime, I've got both a new(er) backup and tax write-offs.

Now some will say that's rediculous, why don't you put the money into college education, retirement, etc., but when that stuff is already taken care of, you need to spend it somewhere else.....

Edgewater
03-01-2006, 10:45 AM
It has been said befor, NET has to be defined.

If you are sole owner, your net is the toatl profit, VS a corp where you have a salary.

For the owner

Sale - all expenses = net for taxes. If you gross 10K have 7K expenses, your net for taxes is 3K. Even if you leave $2999.95 in the account to buy new equip, you pay based on 3K

For a corp the owner gets a salary that is an expense to the corp.


There is a HUGE difference between a Corporation with a 200K net and a sole prop netting 200K

Just wondering what you were refering to

Adam

Precision
03-01-2006, 12:44 PM
I agree to net $200K on 2M sales sounds about right if you are doing landscaping, hardscape, fertilizing etc. , since so much of those gross sales dollars go to materials, managers, supervisors, plants, expensive heavy duty trucks, etc..... That is why large landscape companies have such huge sales figures 5, 6,7, 10 Million annually, but net dollars is only 10 or 11%.

This same math does not apply to companies who only mow, net dollars is about twice that on poorly run operations and 3 times that on well run operations that watch expenses

TJ


Glad to hear that TJ.

My clone of our idea is gearing up for the spring onslaught. The ads hit this week and my first (dedicated) truck should be done by the end of the week with another one about a month behind. Right at about 50 accts left from last year and already getting word of mouth callers for this year. Projecting 2 full routes by May / June.

The landscaper
03-01-2006, 02:01 PM
Justmowit, there are always a lot of people on here who say go for landscaping, "that is where the real money is". It sounds to me like mowing and maintenance has a much better return, of 30% compared to 10% and a lot less bigger machinery.

Precision
03-01-2006, 03:41 PM
Justmowit, there are always a lot of people on here who say go for landscaping, "that is where the real money is". It sounds to me like mowing and maintenance has a much better return, of 30% compared to 10% and a lot less bigger machinery.


that may be, but the gross is much bigger on landscaping and doesn't have the grind of mowing.

Very few mowing companies will ever get to $2 million in sales.
30% of 600k is $200K and that is a lot of grass cutting. Much more
realistically
15% of 1.3 million is $195K or
20% of 1 million is $200k

Very few landscaping companies will last if they don't get to $2 million in sales.
10% of $2 million is $200K and that really isn't that much install work.
10% of $10 million is $1 million.

So a large mowing company is making $200K net where a large landscape company is making $ 1 million net.

that is the difference.

lawncutterupper
03-01-2006, 04:15 PM
Ok it looks like i opened a can of worms here but my objective is to see how long it would take to grow to te point id want to be. Im at and important juncture in my life right now being a soph in college, i have to make some decisions as to what i want to do with my life. I know that i want to build a successfull business and after seeign companies like Justmowit iv realized this might be the place for me. So Justmowit how many years did it take you, to NET 200k in your pocket?

sheshovel
03-01-2006, 04:21 PM
Don't you see..he hasen't.

lawncutterupper
03-01-2006, 04:29 PM
Don't you see..he hasen't.


where did he ever say he doesnt?

Az Gardener
03-01-2006, 05:46 PM
I have been involved in L/S company that does 3 mil a year and the maint arm did 700-K the maint was the cash flow and paid the bills, L/S was always a lot of pressure, have to sell the jobs, lots of competition, then trying to collect, lots of owner / upper management involvement. Maint is like a snowball rolling down hill in comparison. Consistent steady cash flow. Not as much talent to manage. No searching for plants to meet designers spec's, no designers to hire and keep happy. No giant liability because you have a crane and other heavy equipment on the road, No danger of loosing 30% of your work because some idiot newbie thinks he will make it up in volume if he lands that big developer. Maint is nice.

Oh yeah and when the books say you netted 200-K I guarantee it wont be in the bank, at least not your account.

The landscaper
03-01-2006, 05:54 PM
I don't mean to get off the main subject of this thread, but obviously I havent hit the 200k mark yet.
Does it seem that you should stick with one thing, maintenance or landscaping, or do a combination of the both?
I agree the maintenance is definately good cash flow.

JustMowIt
03-01-2006, 06:03 PM
Don't you see..he hasen't.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Az Gardener
03-01-2006, 06:03 PM
They really function well together the L/S feeds the Maint new accounts and the L/S is there to service the maint clients when they need "extras" I have rarely lost Maint accounts because of bad service, at least not at first. It always seems they have a project and the Maint arm did not respond quickly enough. Then the client is steamed about that, then they do finally get the bid and they think its high because they see a local nursery advertising to plant the same size tree for a hundred bucks less then all the sudden they really haven't been happy for years. All because you couldn't handle an extra promptly.

6'7 330
03-01-2006, 06:26 PM
I don't mean to get off the main subject of this thread, but obviously I havent hit the 200k mark yet.
Does it seem that you should stick with one thing, maintenance or landscaping, or do a combination of the both?
I agree the maintenance is definately good cash flow.

We have a division of both landscaping and complete full service maintenance.The maintenance pays the bills provides steady cash flow,and allows us to upsell reinstalls renovations etc to maintenance clients.As a previous poster stated, they feed off one another

The last two years with the explosion in building in my area, we can't keep up with new home and business installs.Our profit margins are a wee bit higher then 10% for landscaping lmao .

JustMowIt
03-01-2006, 06:34 PM
SHE SHOVEL......

Since you know absolutely nothing about my company & I assume that you have not read the thousands of posts about how I operate, I would avoid making uninformed comments. Do not assume since you have not reached that level of success, that nobody else has!

I am not going to post my financial information on LS for the whole world, but I can assure you that I know what I am talking about. I rarely post anything here since there are so few large operators and plenty of people ready to post negative bull shXX!

I was simply trying to point out the differences between net dollars in landscape companies and lawn mowing operations.

If anyone needs my credentials take a look www.justmowing.com, pictures show our Dallas location, just opened Austin.

TJ

LwnmwrMan22
03-01-2006, 06:34 PM
I don't mean to get off the main subject of this thread, but obviously I havent hit the 200k mark yet.
Does it seem that you should stick with one thing, maintenance or landscaping, or do a combination of the both?
I agree the maintenance is definately good cash flow.

The biggest answer to that question, where do you want to be as a company ni regards to employees???

Personally, I tried to do both, but ended up focusing on maintenance only.

The problem was, I never had enough work for a full time install crew, so we'd get a job here, a job there, and try to take some of the mowing crew to do it.

Well then if it rained, now the install / renovation job is behind, as well as the grass. You can see how this snowballs.

If you want to stay "smaller" 3-4 employees, IMO, you should stick to one or the other.

It sucks paying for all the equipment to do installs, and then just being able to squeeze jobs in when the mowing slows down.

It's nearly impossible to do it the other way as well, since once you get a full schedule of installs, it's hard, due to weather, to start backing up the install schedule, because you have 3-4 days of mowing that needs to be done.

Precision
03-01-2006, 07:51 PM
I think what the original poster is actually looking for is advice on how to put $200k in his pocket annually. The answer is lots of hard work and good business sense.

It really doesn't matter if you go install or mowing. They are both just means to an end. If you are a crummy business man, or you don't like the work, then neither will work for you. If you love what you do, learn from your mistakes, can maintain good employees and a good ad budget, either one can make you as much money as you want.
It won't be like winning lotto. It will be lots of difficult days, sweating accounts recievable on occasion, losing the golden acct to some moron who bid it at half the cost, and most importantly it will take time and dedication.

Do what you like and make it work. I know if I was gonna do the landscaping side, I would also have a maintenance division. If you can sell someone a $20k to $200k install, selling them maintenance on it should be really easy. I mean they already trust you to put it in, maintaining it is much simpler than the design and install part. Many accts are happy to hear that you will do it, one stop shopping.

old dog 80
03-01-2006, 08:49 PM
One of the reasons maintenance has a higher margin is you have to market a lot less.New installs have to be sold every day and work much better in fast developing areas.Maintenance is in demand in "older neighborhoods" and for
lazy or busy young professionals.As previously stated maintenance is more of a
grind and THAT makes it harder to keep good help-but not impossible.Maintenance has a lower outlay and lower income.Installs have a higher outlay so a smaller net profit is somewhat misleading.Generally you
will be using OPM for installs since cash flow is greater.From my experience,
you would need 750K to net 200K.But ,as previously mentioned,how you play the tax game has a huge impact on the bottom line.I have a meeting with my
accountant every December and decide how much to spend on equipment so
I can control the tax bite.You can do employee SEP-IRA's health HSA's and
all sorts of things to play with the margin-all legal.If you are serious about this
question it is time to talk to the pros about how to do it.It took me 15 years
to get to 1/4 million but I'm sure it could be done in 3 or 4 years if you wanted to take big risks

lawncutterupper
03-01-2006, 09:02 PM
thank you precision and old dog 80. I think Im going for it, and more so on the maintenace side rather than install. I am inspired buy what Justmowit has accomplished and will try to use their business model as a guideline.

YardPro
03-01-2006, 09:14 PM
Justmowit, there are always a lot of people on here who say go for landscaping, "that is where the real money is". It sounds to me like mowing and maintenance has a much better return, of 30% compared to 10% and a lot less bigger machinery.

this is not accurate.

while the math may be right, but can you imagine the number of clients you need to gross those figures only mowing??? For mowing only you'll be lucky to get $1K/year per client ( probably only half of that). You would need 600 client if you net $1K/year from each one to get $600K
I don't want that many people to deal with..

Precision
03-01-2006, 09:29 PM
thank you precision and old dog 80. I think Im going for it, and more so on the maintenace side rather than install. I am inspired buy what Justmowit has accomplished and will try to use their business model as a guideline.


Montgomery county, but what state.

TJ will tell you that his system has some serious issues if you try to implement it in the wrong geographic regions. You need a certain length season and you need the right kinds of neighborhoods to make it work. And as I will probably find out this year, dependable labor is gonna be the biggest obstacle.

lawncutterupper
03-01-2006, 09:30 PM
If you take a look at Justmowit.com they dont really "deal" with customers. Credit cards are charged the day after the lawn is cut and all regulations are layed out for the customers, "you like us and we like you" if not they let you go.

lawncutterupper
03-01-2006, 09:37 PM
Montgomery county, but what state.

TJ will tell you that his system has some serious issues if you try to implement it in the wrong geographic regions. You need a certain length season and you need the right kinds of neighborhoods to make it work. And as I will probably find out this year, dependable labor is gonna be the biggest obstacle.


PA, 28-32 cuts per year. We have a developer in the area called THP building ideal lots at hundreds a year, it may not be exactly like jsutmowit but it can work

LwnmwrMan22
03-01-2006, 09:46 PM
Montgomery county, but what state.

TJ will tell you that his system has some serious issues if you try to implement it in the wrong geographic regions. You need a certain length season and you need the right kinds of neighborhoods to make it work. And as I will probably find out this year, dependable labor is gonna be the biggest obstacle.

I wish you all the best lawncutterupper....

TJ's plan, although I'd LOVE to implement it here, I LOVE to just mow and go, will not work for me.

My area is too spread out, with a majority of homes on 1-3 acre lots.

I have found my own niche though in the small to medium sized commercial properties, that have permanent landscape, ie no yearly flowers to plant, 1 top dress of mulch / year, full service, that will let me mow and plow the snow on a set fee / year.

Precision
03-01-2006, 10:01 PM
I wish you all the best lawncutterupper....

TJ's plan, although I'd LOVE to implement it here, I LOVE to just mow and go, will not work for me.

My area is too spread out, with a majority of homes on 1-3 acre lots.

I have found my own niche though in the small to medium sized commercial properties, that have permanent landscape, ie no yearly flowers to plant, 1 top dress of mulch / year, full service, that will let me mow and plow the snow on a set fee / year.
Exactly, know your market then work your market.

Howard Roark
03-01-2006, 10:25 PM
Don't you see..he hasen't.


The posts on this site are getting more and more interesting as time goes on, divided into groups.

In group #1, you have the people who have done nothing but HELP others, with less than 1% of their posts actually asking for help. This small group is often bashed and criticized, yet "somehow someway" they continue to be successful.

Then there's the group in the middle who seem to have an opinion on everything, and if an idea comes up that's different than anything they do then it CAN'T be true, so they claim that other's are lying to make themselves feel better because they haven't acheived similar results.

Then there's the new guy, who hopes to learn from posts on this site, and ends up striving for the former but ends up taking the advice of the latter who seems to be the majority here.

Get your ego's out of your crapper and take the free advice of people who ARE successful, not ones who write a bunch of B.S. on this site claiming they make so much $$.

lawncutterupper
03-02-2006, 03:22 AM
well said. Iv learned a lot about this site a lot about myself the past couple weeks on here. I guess ill make this thread a bench mark and have it 3,5,10 years down the road? itll be interesting to see what the net few years bring, for everyone i guess. good luck and thanks for the help.

JustMowIt
03-02-2006, 08:43 AM
this is not accurate.

while the math may be right, but can you imagine the number of clients you need to gross those figures only mowing??? For mowing only you'll be lucky to get $1K/year per client ( probably only half of that). You would need 600 client if you net $1K/year from each one to get $600K
I don't want that many people to deal with..

Very True......huge volume is required.....office phone help needed!

Az Gardener
03-02-2006, 09:31 AM
Do I understand that most of your work is seasonal, little or no overseeding? I can't decide if is a blessing or curse. Probably a blessing, trying to overseed that many lawns and dealing with the inevitable sprinkler problems would be a nightmare. Just trying to get a better handle on your season. I am also surprised you haven't franchised your company, its very generous of you to share your system with all of us, thank you.

old dog 80
03-02-2006, 10:47 AM
The posts on this site are getting more and more interesting as time goes on, divided into groups.

In group #1, you have the people who have done nothing but HELP others, with less than 1% of their posts actually asking for help. This small group is often bashed and criticized, yet "somehow someway" they continue to be successful.

Then there's the group in the middle who seem to have an opinion on everything, and if an idea comes up that's different than anything they do then it CAN'T be true, so they claim that other's are lying to make themselves feel better because they haven't acheived similar results.

Then there's the new guy, who hopes to learn from posts on this site, and ends up striving for the former but ends up taking the advice of the latter who seems to be the majority here.

Get your ego's out of your crapper and take the free advice of people who ARE successful, not ones who write a bunch of B.S. on this site claiming they make so much $$.
THe reason for my name"old dog 80" is I started in 1980.I went full time in
in 1988 and have been told by many lowballers that they will put me out of business.They last a year or two.I advertise by word of mouth.A lot of
clients I started with are dying or going to assisted living.Your market is going
to change if you are in the long haul and you better be ready!When you think you know it all something will prove you don't.Be ready to ask lots of questions ! The reason I periodically check these threads is I can learn a bunch.I can tell who has been on here in the long haul and BSers.There is
solid info here but ya gotta sort the wheat from the chaff.I am currently shooting for high end residential and willing to
provide high end service.Some commercial work always spins off that.
I also ask good clients for names of prospects when needed.The biggest
ongoing headache has been enough help as needed...

J Hisch
03-02-2006, 11:14 AM
I think so many operators on this site are struggling, and when all is said and done they would have been better off, just staying at their current job. Everyone seems to have a hard time believeing there are some in the business that are making real money. However becasue they havent made real money they dont believe others can. But then when you try to give a new idea or a different way of doing business. They are very rude, say your lying and everthing else. I agree with just mow it, very few, very few on this site are truly business men working in the lawn care business.

JustMowIt
03-02-2006, 11:38 AM
Do I understand that most of your work is seasonal, little or no overseeding? I can't decide if is a blessing or curse. Probably a blessing, trying to overseed that many lawns and dealing with the inevitable sprinkler problems would be a nightmare. Just trying to get a better handle on your season. I am also surprised you haven't franchised your company, its very generous of you to share your system with all of us, thank you.

No franchising but we our opening our first branch in Austin this month. Hopefully 2 more branches coming in the next 2-3 years.

JustMowIt
03-02-2006, 11:41 AM
Do I understand that most of your work is seasonal, little or no overseeding? I can't decide if is a blessing or curse. Probably a blessing, trying to overseed that many lawns and dealing with the inevitable sprinkler problems would be a nightmare. Just trying to get a better handle on your season. I am also surprised you haven't franchised your company, its very generous of you to share your system with all of us, thank you.

36 week season, no overseeding, all out of season work is done on a "call-in" basis. We try to just break even in the winter, we make all our money in season.

The landscaper
03-02-2006, 12:20 PM
Entrepreneurship is all about taking risks and going after new ideas. Without doing this you will just be following in the footsteps of everyone else. I'm sure everyone told Bill Gates, Sam Walton, Ray Krock, and all of the billionaires around they were crazy at some point.

bullethead
03-02-2006, 02:27 PM
I remember an old finance teacher who said - "If you follow the herd, you will generate "herd like" rates of return" . Think outside of the proverbial box.

LwnmwrMan22
03-02-2006, 05:28 PM
36 week season, no overseeding, all out of season work is done on a "call-in" basis. We try to just break even in the winter, we make all our money in season.

Same here. I have 40 small - mid sized commercial accounts that average a gross of just under $20k / month.

In the winter, I plow 15 of those same accounts and average just over $4k / month.

The $4k / month are my living expenses that I need to keep my house, trucks, equipment, and buy Christmas presents, anniversary, V-day gifts and be able to enjoy life in the 6 months that I don't do NEARLY as much as when I work 7 days / week in the summer.

I have about 15-18 days off in the summer, from May until about the middle of November, and then I work 15-18 days in the winter.

I gross about $150k year doing it this way with a 6 month mowing season.

mr.we.mow.grass
03-09-2006, 06:35 PM
Just want to say a few things about TJ and Mike @ Just Mowing! These guys know what they are doing, without a doubt have a system in place that is kick a$$. Any one would stand to learn a thing or 2 from them. They have the Ca$h Cow as some real estate guys say!
Just my 2 cents
Mel

Fvstringpicker
03-09-2006, 10:26 PM
People usually compare business net income with what they can make working on a job. The problem is that, and rightly so for tax purposes, is to deduct every conceivable expense to reach business net income when comparing it to a "salary". What's usually missing in the comparison is to costs associated with being employed. During my years as a CPA, controller and auditor, it cost me a lot of money to work in the way of clothes, transportation, supplies, continuing education, etc. My net salary was a few thousand less than what showed up on my w-2 form. Accordingly, when comparing your net from business against net from employment, a smart person will factor in the costs of employment. Plus don't forget you'd have to buy a lawn mower to cut your own yard.

TJLANDS
03-09-2006, 10:57 PM
The posts on this site are getting more and more interesting as time goes on, divided into groups.

In group #1, you have the people who have done nothing but HELP others, with less than 1% of their posts actually asking for help. This small group is often bashed and criticized, yet "somehow someway" they continue to be successful.

Then there's the group in the middle who seem to have an opinion on everything, and if an idea comes up that's different than anything they do then it CAN'T be true, so they claim that other's are lying to make themselves feel better because they haven't acheived similar results.

Then there's the new guy, who hopes to learn from posts on this site, and ends up striving for the former but ends up taking the advice of the latter who seems to be the majority here.

Get your ego's out of your crapper and take the free advice of people who ARE successful, not ones who write a bunch of B.S. on this site claiming they make so much $$.
It would be nice if everybody read this and even better if everybody understood.

LwnmwrMan22
03-09-2006, 10:58 PM
People usually compare business net income with what they can make working on a job. The problem is that, and rightly so for tax purposes, is to deduct every conceivable expense to reach business net income when comparing it to a "salary". What's usually missing in the comparison is to costs associated with being employed. During my years as a CPA, controller and auditor, it cost me a lot of money to work in the way of clothes, transportation, supplies, continuing education, etc. My net salary was a few thousand less than what showed up on my w-2 form. Accordingly, when comparing your net from business against net from employment, a smart person will factor in the costs of employment. Plus don't forget you'd have to buy a lawn mower to cut your own yard.

Plus the truck to get there, the fuel for it, insurance and cell phone so the wife can call you and tell you to pick up the bread.

Oh yeah, and the DSL so you can search for more equipment or post on LawnSite.

southscape
06-21-2006, 07:44 PM
I can't believe that you think you only make 10% landscaping. That's the craziest thing I've heard. On EVERY SINGLE JOB we do, we pull at a minimum of 35% profit. Many times it's in the 45-50% range. This is after all expenses are paid (taxes, insurance, labor burden....all that crap). We do a little over a million in sales in the high end residential market. Know where to make the money and it'll work. By the way, you can't get to 200k with 21's.