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View Full Version : Perkins or Mitsubishi ??


qps
03-02-2006, 11:02 AM
My cat salesmen tells be my 257B has a mitsubishi block with cat head and injectors....other say its a perkins block....I say it lacks in the power dept. and don't know what to believe...uniscaper...help me out here:dizzy:

p.s I gonna look in the engine compartment for stamping....

Dirty Water
03-02-2006, 11:44 AM
I think the Mini ex's used Mitsupillar engines while the skids used perkapillers?

Scag48
03-02-2006, 04:12 PM
Yeah, that's what I thought. Our 303 has the Mituspillar and the 216 has the Perkapillar.

Tigerotor77W
03-02-2006, 04:18 PM
I believe the B-series runs Mitsubishis, but I'll either let Bill verify and check, or I'll just let him verify if I don't have time to check.

Squizzy246B
03-03-2006, 09:56 AM
I believe the B-series runs Mitsubishis, but I'll either let Bill verify and check, or I'll just let him verify if I don't have time to check.

The 3024 (up to 57 hp) is basically a Perkins but it depends where in the world you are. The 3044 is a Misti Heavy Industries (MHI) engine. The 24*B and up run the MHI engine.

UNISCAPER
03-03-2006, 10:51 AM
I think you must have a new CAT salesman. The 257B is a Perkins, every tag on the injection, block and head says so. Unless he knows something that we don't. like maybe Mitsubishi is casting the blocks for Perkins to assemble? Not likely because Perkins has their own die casting plant in England.

qps
03-04-2006, 09:37 PM
I think you must have a new CAT salesman. The 257B is a Perkins, every tag on the injection, block and head says so. Unless he knows something that we don't. like maybe Mitsubishi is casting the blocks for Perkins to assemble? Not likely because Perkins has their own die casting plant in England.

Well the only think I can see says perkins on it...but I'm ready to drive it off a cliff....with a bucket of stone on dry ground the thing doesn't want to turn sometimes...its the darnest think I ever seen...surely to god somethings wrong with it:angry: My cat salesman drove it around and of course it ran fine for him but he said they had a pilot control problem with some units and wanted to bring it in to replace and check pressures...I sure hope it something like that...if not maybe test a case...but my case dealer is ready to string me up anyways:laugh: he's also the takeuchi salesman!!! this doens't help my cat dealership since I'm buying a new mini and waiting on there new C304CR to get here, or its Takeuchi TB53...for me:cool2: :cool2:
I'm ranting alittle tonight since I got my invoice from my attorney who handled my rezoning case for 5 acres I bought...residental to light industrial.....:cry: anybody care to help a brother outpayup

UNISCAPER
03-04-2006, 09:55 PM
QPS:

What year 257B???? They had a recall on the metering block for the directional control. After ours was replaced, it had power I never knew was there. Call them on it. They should send you a truck and fix it on the house..

Tigerotor77W
03-04-2006, 11:04 PM
I'll suggest the same. I ran a 257B that had a similar issue -- I stalled it three times, two of which I wasn't trying to stall it.

Another 257B, 236, and 246B never had that problem. It's probably exactly what Uniscaper said.

qps
03-04-2006, 11:24 PM
QPS:

What year 257B???? They had a recall on the metering block for the directional control. After ours was replaced, it had power I never knew was there. Call them on it. They should send you a truck and fix it on the house..


Bill, new unit with 25hrs....

Gravel Rat
03-04-2006, 11:37 PM
If you see anywhere on the fuel system that says LUCAS its guaranteed Perkins as Lucas fuel systems is British just like Perkins or if you have a Lucas electrics Alternator.

The trait Mitsubushi's have is very very black sooty exhaust. If you are working it hard and shes belching out a good chunk of black its a Mits.

We had a Cat Forklift with a Mitsubushi 4 cylinder engine it belched black pretty heavy. You let the engine idle for 5-10 mins you would get one hell of cloud of black. The Perkins 4 cylinder in the Hyster would smoke blue like a old Cummins you could tell by the exhaust smell which Forklift was in the area.

The Mitsubushi 6 cylinders in the towboat that ties up to our docks at my famillies property burns black as coal.

The Mits that was in the Forklift said mitsubushi right on the valve cover and it had the Mitsubushi emblem stamped on the block.

Squizzy246B
03-04-2006, 11:40 PM
No properly tuned diesel engine should continuously blow black smoke. I have two Misti's in skids and one in a truck and they don't blow smoke, black or otherwise.

qps
03-04-2006, 11:41 PM
No properly tuned diesel engine should continuously blow black smoke. I have two Misti's in skids and one in a truck and they don't blow smoke, black or otherwise.

I thought you went shopping.....:drinkup: ...

Gravel Rat
03-04-2006, 11:44 PM
The mits in the forklift which was only 5 years old or so belched black it was a N/A engine (turboless). The mits in the towboat smoked black brand new its a common trait with them they are turboed and put out 520hp each.

Squizzy246B
03-04-2006, 11:59 PM
I thought you went shopping.....:drinkup: ...

I'm back, Mango for Lunch!

UNISCAPER
03-05-2006, 12:28 AM
Ok. New machine, but manufacturing date of January 2004 through June 2005 may very well have had the recalled metering block or perhaps metering block and valve combo. Call them on it.

qps
03-05-2006, 12:32 AM
Ok. New machine, but manufacturing date of January 2004 through June 2005 may very well have had the recalled metering block or perhaps metering block and valve combo. Call them on it.

First call I'll make Monday...

Digdeep
03-05-2006, 11:48 AM
The CAT 267/277 and the 287 run the CAT branded Mitsubishi Engines. The 247 and 247 run the CAT branded Perkins. Evidently, CAT owns almost half of Mitsubishi heavy Industries, or so I'm told by the CAT dealer.

UNISCAPER
03-05-2006, 01:35 PM
"The mits in the forklift which was only 5 years old or so belched black it was a N/A engine (turboless). The mits in the towboat smoked black brand new its a common trait with them they are turboed and put out 520hp each."

Once again we see Gravel Rat comparing something that is completely unrelated to todays market to what was years ago. First, we are talking about engine brands in late model CAT MTL's and skidsteers. Tier 3 diesels made by CAT are the only units accepted for use through the California Department of Forsetry because they meet all air quality standards, as BS as I feel that whole thing really is.

Use of the variable flow pump all but eliminates black exhaust flow and though I would never try it, they claim the air leaving the stack is cleaner than what enters the intake.

Though I can get our 301.8's to blow black when we bust out dirt, (they use an old gear style pump) I have rarely seen exhaust discoloration on any compact CAT tractor. I'm not saying it does not/won't happen, just saying it is down to a minimum. I've seen white, when a turbo let go, but never black. Just a slight blueish gray puff when starting cold. After that what leaves is clear.


"Evidently, CAT owns almost half of Mitsubishi heavy Industries, or so I'm told by the CAT dealer."

Actually they own 61%, controlling interest. Mitsu got in trouble in 1967 when the Chinese and Russians failed to pay them for machinery used in the Viet Nam War. By 1969 they faced bancruptcy so, Cat seeing opportunity to get into Japan, bailed them out. This one act is the ONLY reason CAT is allowed tom operate within the shores of Japan.
Realizing full well they could never pay CAT back, Cat just assumed interest/ownership in the stock. Over the course of 13 years, CAT consumed the amount of shares it has today. There will come a day, much like the 25% take over of Isuzu and GM, that all Mitsu heavy indisrties will be is a parts distributing subsidiary to Caterpillar. I don't know when exactly, but the groundwork has already been laid out.

iowacatman
03-06-2006, 09:55 AM
Cat "B" Series:
Perkins:
216, 232, 226, 247, 242, 257

Mitsi:
236, 252, 267, 246, 248, 262, 268, 277, 287

Squizzy246B
03-06-2006, 10:04 AM
Cat "B" Series:
Perkins:
216, 232, 226, 247, 242, 257

Mitsi:
236, 252, 267, 246, 248, 262, 268, 277, 287

Thats what I said;)

iowacatman
03-06-2006, 10:15 AM
The 3024 (up to 57 hp) is basically a Perkins but it depends where in the world you are. The 3044 is a Misti Heavy Industries (MHI) engine. The 24*B and up run the MHI engine.

Sorry squizzy, I read your post, I think it was slightly incomplete. No disrespect intended.

Squizzy246B
03-06-2006, 10:21 AM
Sorry squizzy, I read your post, I think it was slightly incomplete. No disrespect intended.

No worries...I was just joshing around and actually appreciated your post in case things were different in other parts of the world. I don't actually know the small stuff much at all having done my time on 3406, 3208, 3408 and 3412's. I got to know a bit about the smaller engines doing failure analysis for insurance claims but thats about it.

qps
03-10-2006, 03:06 PM
QPS:

What year 257B???? They had a recall on the metering block for the directional control. After ours was replaced, it had power I never knew was there. Call them on it. They should send you a truck and fix it on the house..

Load sensing valve stuck...replaced and runs great now...

qps
03-23-2006, 04:37 PM
Load sensing valve stuck...replaced and runs great now...


Ugh...check that last statement....running like crap again...:dizzy: ..picking it up.....:hammerhead:

Squizzy246B
03-24-2006, 08:18 AM
Ugh...check that last statement....running like crap again...:dizzy: ..picking it up.....:hammerhead:

Have you considered burning it??..is it insured???. I'll swap you for a brand new 301.8 with the same problem and a dodgey starter motor..:cry:

qps
03-24-2006, 08:50 AM
Have you considered burning it??..is it insured???. I'll swap you for a brand new 301.8 with the same problem and a dodgey starter motor..:cry:

oh yeah insured for 40k....anybody got a match....:angry: I can't complain about there service...when I call yesterday...three people called me back and there picking it up and dropping off a loaner this morning...I think they like working on it...I got a copy of the invoice for replacing that sensor and it was 1200.00 dollars....I'd work on em all day and quit my job:)

Squizzy246B
03-24-2006, 09:10 AM
This is the third time Cat are out to the 1.8...looks like we got the Friday Arvo model. Terriffic service but probs take the gloss off the new paint and the service guys freely admit they are not as familiar with the new model as they'd like to be. I should have known better...Never Ever buy the newby straight off the line..always let somebody else iron out the gliches and train up the technicians:hammerhead: . At least we are getting service.

A guy rang me from up north the other day. He'd just traded in his 246 for a 248 like me and wanted to see how our machine was going. In discussion the name "Bobcat" came up....he spat the name out like a viper..reckoned the only way he could get warranty with his last Bobcat was with a lawyer. Like I said somewhere before, I live in the most isolated city in the world...service and support are not something we can't afford to take for granted. Luckily Cat are working on the 1.8 on the weekend and we are not using it.