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View Full Version : What's the differance between these valves?


Jason Rose
03-02-2006, 09:58 PM
Rainbird 100DV valve from a supply house and the same valve from Lowes only with a grey top and different a different model number.

The ONLY thing I assume is different is the grey top, is that right? Don't they do that so contractors can tell whether the job was doen professionally or not?

I have 3 valves to replace, all 100DVF and I don't want or need to drive and hour and a half round trip to get them. Lowes here has the same valves, I will get the 100DV, since there is no need for flow control here. I don't want to use them is they are in fact inferior though!

What's the verdict?

P.S. the valve bodies are cracked on all three on the topside perpendicular to the threads, the cracks don't extend all the way to the edge though so I don't think it was an issue of being over tightened, system is about 10 years old and the cracks showed up over winter. The system was never shut down all winter and the backflow NEVER BROKE! Of course there was always water flowing thru it with the leaks too... lol

bicmudpuppy
03-02-2006, 10:51 PM
A question I like! In years past, the products shipped to the retail hardware market were cheaper versions of what we buy. With this valve, I honestly do not know. I would normally assume that the same molds were used, but the homeowner version is not a nylon fill, and is the cheapest plastic/pvc blend they could use and still produce a product that would beat the 90 day warranty. if only the bodies are cracked and your bonnets look good, old bonnet on new body and diaphram might be a good choice if the bodies on these look like the real deal.

bicmudpuppy
03-02-2006, 10:55 PM
BTW, your quite a bit south of me, except for that brief (very brief) cold snap early on, when did it get cold enough to freeze? Just curious, we had a foot of snow on the ground for those few days it was actually cold. I am thinking the gamblers who didn't pay for winterizations got by with one this year.

Jason Rose
03-02-2006, 11:09 PM
Well we never had any foot of snow here! About 4" both snowfalls we had. The temps were in the single digits for several days, pretty cold for a couple weeks this winter at least. Freeze damage is about my only explination... Don't know how 3 valves side by side in a row of 6 broke all in the same places like that all at the same time. Looks like they had been leaking for months, it's in SAND and on the side of a hill but the grass is nice and green around them. I mow the lawn there and I'm pretty sure it was dry around there last fall.

That's a good idear about re-using the bonnet off the old valves... I'm not sure if the DV bonnet is the same size shape and diaphram as the DVF though. The ones in the hole are DVF's which are a waste since they have no reason to turn the flow down on any of them.

I remember now about the cheaper materials used to make consumer supplies, I heard that somewhere before. Funny how the products that cost us HALF of what they sell for in retail stores is actually the superior product!

PurpHaze
03-03-2006, 08:31 AM
If I understand this correctly it's the bodies of the three valves that are cracked? If that's the case you're going to have to dig them up and replace. Rather than trying to match things up I'd just go ahead and completely replace the valves with what you can get. That way they stay as a complete unit.

PurpHaze
03-03-2006, 08:43 AM
A little more explanation to my previous post before BIC disagrees with me. :laugh:

Irritrol's 1-1/2" Century Plus valves changed oh so slightly a few years back. Everything looked the same except they changed from Phillips head screws to bolts with nuts to hold down the bonnets, similar to their larger sized valves. Nothing was wrong with the screw configuration except that when dirt impacted into the Phillips heads they were sometimes hard to remove. When they went with the bolts they made the bonnet just slightly thicker to handle the nuts that go on the bolts. This then made the original screws a little too short to use when replacing just the top ends of the valves. We get around this by matching up hex head bolts that will seat down into the screw thread receivers in the body. Slight change but we had to adapt because the alternative was having to replace the complete valve each time when problems occurred.

Dirty Water
03-03-2006, 09:35 AM
Jason, the consumer version of the 100DV uses the same mold, but cheaper materials, and inferior Q&A. Its just like how the Orbit PGP is identicle to the Hunter PGP...except its crap.

100DV and 100DVF can interchange bonnets if I remember correctly. We only install 100DVF's.

I've never seen one split like your describing though, odd.

bicmudpuppy
03-03-2006, 10:53 PM
The Lowe's version of the DVF is listed as a CPF-100 vs DVF-100. An internet search for CPF-100 will net you many different pictures of this valve. Are you SURE those are DVs in the hole? I have seen cheap valves crack at the valve body like you are describing from excessive air pressure during winterization. The old Weathermatic "silver bullets" were good at cracking like this from freeze damage. They tend to leave a small amount of water in the bottom of the valve unless you manage to dry them very well at winterization. They then crack from the freezing right infront of the influent MA. Sometimes they weaken and don't actually break until after they have been pressurized in the spring and been cycled a few times. A real pain!
Rainbird.com wasn't working for me when I checked yesterday. I thought DVs were either glass filled or nylon valves. I would guess that the CPs are not.

bicmudpuppy
03-03-2006, 11:11 PM
Here is another one for your calendar Hayes :)
BIC is WRONG. The DVs are plastic. No nylon or glass fill. The specs are the same for the DVs and the CPs as far flow and pressure ratings. The diaphrams are apparently different and the DVs are screened better. Internet shopping puts the CP as 18 bucks from Lowes. Ewings price in KC is around 11. You need 4? in March? I would take the extra two hour round trip on the windshield and buy some spares. Charge the customer more because you are putting commercial equipment back. In July or August, I might do the math in a slightly different way.

Jason Rose
03-03-2006, 11:40 PM
Well good or bad I bought the lowes valves lastnight and installed then this morning. All 3 I removed were leaking in the same places, the topside of the inlet was cracked from under the bonnet to about half way to the end of the threaded portion. To look at them the cracks appear to be nothing more than scratches on the plastic, but when I looked really close I could see the crack at the top edge of the body. Yes I'm positive they are Rain Bird 100-DVF valves. I examined one I removed and one I bought from lowes and I could see nothing different between the two other than the grey bonnet on the lowes one. Internally looked the same.

I think they were $15.20 or so. certinaly not worth me sitting in my truck for 2 hours to save 15 bucks. You say "In March" like it's cold and snowing and there's nothing better to do. I'm busy busy with clean-ups and irrigation reapirs. Next week I need to start throwing fert.

As for what caused 3 valves in a row of 6 to crack like this, well I have no clue! No blowout is done on this system ever, so air pressure damage is out. And freezing should have wiped out the M/A's and the pvc way before that valve body split. Thanks for the opinions though... I do strive on doing quality work! I also pride in putting things back looking the same as I took then out, as in digging things up and what not. Kills me when I see guys just throw boxes in any old way, crooked or sticking up 3 inches and then leaving dirt everywhere and sod not back in the hole right. When I'm finished there's only cut marks in the sod where the shovel cut it left!

bicmudpuppy
03-05-2006, 12:19 PM
Well good or bad I bought the lowes valves lastnight and installed then this morning. All 3 I removed were leaking in the same places, the topside of the inlet was cracked from under the bonnet to about half way to the end of the threaded portion. To look at them the cracks appear to be nothing more than scratches on the plastic, but when I looked really close I could see the crack at the top edge of the body. Yes I'm positive they are Rain Bird 100-DVF valves. I examined one I removed and one I bought from lowes and I could see nothing different between the two other than the grey bonnet on the lowes one. Internally looked the same.

I think they were $15.20 or so. certinaly not worth me sitting in my truck for 2 hours to save 15 bucks. You say "In March" like it's cold and snowing and there's nothing better to do. I'm busy busy with clean-ups and irrigation reapirs. Next week I need to start throwing fert.

As for what caused 3 valves in a row of 6 to crack like this, well I have no clue! No blowout is done on this system ever, so air pressure damage is out. And freezing should have wiped out the M/A's and the pvc way before that valve body split. Thanks for the opinions though... I do strive on doing quality work! I also pride in putting things back looking the same as I took then out, as in digging things up and what not. Kills me when I see guys just throw boxes in any old way, crooked or sticking up 3 inches and then leaving dirt everywhere and sod not back in the hole right. When I'm finished there's only cut marks in the sod where the shovel cut it left!

Maybe being farther south from me makes it safe to start spring work, and lawn cleanups are probably a good thing, but even with the phenomenal weather, we aren't ready to mow or anything like that up here yet. And just because it isn't snowing now doesn't mean I am acting like spring is here. Some of the worst snows I remember are late March and early April storms. Several time we had big snow after spring break when I was at State in the late 80's.
Now one more thought about your valves. I have seen this kind of crack on the cheaper commercial Hunter valves. We were using tape and paste both and it is possible to bottom out the MA and cause a stess fault in that mold line. We sent a sample to hunter of one of their valves put together our way with MA's attached, but not tight. They claimed the lack of friction caused from using TFE paste on top of the TFE tape created a very large amount of torque. Some of the valves we cracked before this were "hand tight" by my standards. Again, these are plastic, not glass or nylon fill valves. They are going to be the weak point in the system. Not your glue joint, fittings or pipe.

Rainman7
03-06-2006, 10:13 AM
Rainbird 100DV valve from a supply house and the same valve from Lowes only with a grey top and different a different model number.

The ONLY thing I assume is different is the grey top, is that right? Don't they do that so contractors can tell whether the job was doen professionally or not?

I have 3 valves to replace, all 100DVF and I don't want or need to drive and hour and a half round trip to get them. Lowes here has the same valves, I will get the 100DV, since there is no need for flow control here. I don't want to use them is they are in fact inferior though!

What's the verdict?

P.S. the valve bodies are cracked on all three on the topside perpendicular to the threads, the cracks don't extend all the way to the edge though so I don't think it was an issue of being over tightened, system is about 10 years old and the cracks showed up over winter. The system was never shut down all winter and the backflow NEVER BROKE! Of course there was always water flowing thru it with the leaks too... lol


FYI, I have repalced numerous Rainbird 100DV valve over the last few years. All "Contractor Grade" supply house valve. They ALL cracked in the SAME place on the flow arrow on top. I believe its a manufacturer defect. I contacted Rainbird and they denied it of course. They crack reguardless of manifold type. They have even cracked on the O-Ring type Dura seal where there is no pressure due to thread expansion. The valves date from 6-10 years ago.
If I were you, I would replace all of the valves at that house. Whenever I had one go bad, the rest follow in a very short amount of time.

Ray

PurpHaze
03-06-2006, 04:56 PM
Here's the valves side by side.

PurpHaze
03-06-2006, 05:05 PM
They ALL cracked in the SAME place on the flow arrow on top.

Cracked here?????????? :)

Rainman7
03-06-2006, 07:14 PM
Yep, right there on top. Looks like the Lowes body is the same design. Same plastic? I havent come across many of the Lowes version but, if I remember, you could interchange the guts and top. But this doesnt do much good when the body cracks.

Ray
QUOTE=PurpHaze]Cracked here?????????? :)[/QUOTE]

Jason Rose
03-06-2006, 08:05 PM
Yeah that is where mine are cracked...

And the valve you have pictured the lowes version, is NOT what the ones looked like I bought from there. The valve body is black and identical in every way to the "good" version. The bonnet is grey, but otherwise it looks exactly the same again, as the good version. Even the solenoid is the same. They must have changed them this year or last. Trust me, if they were like the one in the picture there I would NOT have even thought about buying them!!!

Lowes had the DV-100, DVF-100 and the new jar tops! Reguardless I will be making a trip to the supplier soon and buying some "good" valves to have on hand again. I used nearly all my 5004 heads saturday and am running low on other supplies!

P.S. If ya'll don't believe me about the valves sold at lowes I CAN go there and take one out and snap a pic of it! lol!

PurpHaze
03-06-2006, 09:04 PM
I wonder if the "CP" in the Lowes model number means Crap-Pee?? :laugh:

koster_irrigation
03-06-2006, 10:22 PM
you think rainbird would make just one solenoid to put on those valves, looks like they changed up the lowes one a lil

PurpHaze
03-07-2006, 08:22 AM
The solenoids look pretty similar to me what with the potted hex shape and all. However, having not used these Rainbird valves I couldn't be sure unless I had them in my hands. The CP-100 picture was small so I blew it up a little and distortion occurred. :)