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View Full Version : first time skidsteer buyer/prices


mas
03-03-2006, 02:27 AM
Hello,

Great forum.. im not in the lawncare business but i have read the equipment forum from start to finish and it was very informative im interested in dumptrucks/skidsteers and other small equipment to buy and i learned alot from this forum..

what kind of price should i negotiate down the dealer on a bobcat? i dont want to insult them and go to low.. would 10 grand off a loaders mrsp with 2 atachments be alittle to much to ask?

i got quoted 59 thousand for a s250 w/ gold package, 2speed highflow, a/c self leveling bucket and a few other things.. with normal bucket with teeth and combo bucket

i told the salesman i was off to checkout a cat and he said to remember that bobcat is very competitive with pricing..

so just wondering whats the range of negotiation on these things..


and does anyone have any experience with shin mitsubishi skidsteers?

mas
03-03-2006, 05:52 AM
just reread that.. and i dont mean 2 atachments thrown in for free, but purchasing the 2 attachments ontop of the machine

thepawnshop
03-03-2006, 11:46 AM
Your first stop should be to truly price the cat, deere, case and whoever elso you may be SERIOUSLY considering and look at the differences. At best, I think 10% is reasonable. You never know till you try! Also, dont worry about insulting the dealer...Im sure they get insulted almost on a daily basis. How he handles a low offer may tell you whether or not you guys can have a good relationship down the road.

I am a firm beleiver in getting the best deal I can get, but not at the expense of support. You may have to pay a little more for a mcahine that has excellent service and I can assure you, that is worth much more than you can ever imagine.

UNISCAPER
03-03-2006, 10:17 PM
i got quoted 59 thousand for a s250 w/ gold package, 2speed highflow, a/c self leveling bucket and a few other things.. with normal bucket with teeth and combo bucket


Maybe I'm out of touch, but 59K for a skid steer seems to me like rape artistry. We paid 47K for a 257B with 6-1 blade, bucket forks. Self leveling is a standard feature.

UNISCAPER
03-03-2006, 10:18 PM
i got quoted 59 thousand for a s250 w/ gold package, 2speed highflow, a/c self leveling bucket and a few other things.. with normal bucket with teeth and combo bucket


Maybe I'm out of touch, but 59K for a skid steer seems to me like rape artistry. We paid 47K for a 257B with 6-1 blade, bucket forks. Self leveling is a standard feature.

Tigerotor77W
03-03-2006, 10:28 PM
He's quoting Canada dollars, I think...

but still, that comes out to 52k USD. That's a lot for an S250, even if it has all those packages...

Gravel Rat
03-03-2006, 11:55 PM
Thats alot of bucks to put out are you going to have enough work for it ?

I would be looking at buying a good used machine instead or look into buying a used rubber tired backhoe.

To be exact it is 51,973 dollars US still quite abit of money for a machine that is limited for the work you can do with it. I would think buying a mini excavator or like I said a rubber tired hoe would be a better choice.

mas
03-04-2006, 12:24 AM
im more or less just buying the machine as a toy.. i just purchased some land that i will be throwing a shop and house on so i was buying it to do the landscaping on the land..

i could also use the machine for snow in the winter, if i just used it to clear my friends business`s and stripmalls im sure it would pay for its self quickly..

but what do you think is a fair price for a s250?

i looked at komatsus and the dealership here is a complete 2bit operation so i wouldnt want to buy from them..

my friends father also owns a shin mitsubishi dealership in japan which is cat so i could order a used one from japan for a very good price.. but service may be a problem here i dont think the dealerships like when you save a bunch of money buying from overseas...



i also tried to call other dealerships in canada for a new s250 and they wont give anything better than a mrsp quote over the phone

Scag48
03-04-2006, 02:49 AM
I wouldn't buy a new machine if you're just messing around with one on your own land. Even 59K Canadian for an S250 is grab-your-ankles material, that machine is worth NO MORE than $40K US equipped like you described. You can find something used for alot less than that. And trying to knock off 10 grand at a dealership will get you laughed out of there, that's 25% off, won't happen. My suggestion is to find a decent used machine from a dealership and then negotiate prices.

mas
03-04-2006, 03:00 AM
if machinery dealerships are anything like car dealerships i think i would never buy a used product from them...

ill see what happens.. i will offer over 10 grand less I will have a check ready for the machine in hand.. if they take it they take it

most likely im going to end up order the machine from japan and shipping it over i think because prices on new/used in my city seem pretty out of hand compared to internet prices



I wouldn't buy a new machine if you're just messing around with one on your own land. Even 59K Canadian for an S250 is grab-your-ankles material, that machine is worth NO MORE than $40K US equipped like you described. You can find something used for alot less than that. And trying to knock off 10 grand at a dealership will get you laughed out of there, that's 25% off, won't happen. My suggestion is to find a decent used machine from a dealership and then negotiate prices.

Scag48
03-04-2006, 10:42 AM
You can try offering 10 grand less with cash in hand but I doubt that will get you machine. You're better off negotiating maybe 3-4K and trying to get free options. They're in business to make money and the markup isn't nearly as much as a car dealership. Why would they sell you a machine for 10K less when someone could come by the next day and pay full price for it? The equipment sales philosophy is this: it's not a car, it produces profit, therefore people aren't going to haggle the price because eventually it will pay for itself over and over again. Equipment salesmen don't need to move equipment as fast as car salesmen move cars so the negotiating prices are alot closer to their original prices. I think if you went in and offered what you're talking about you'd either get yelled at or laughed at. And even if you did get that offer for some strange reason you'd never get good service there because they'd remember that you were the lowballer trying to save a buck. Sorry man, but that's how it works. And if you order from Japan, good luck with parts, they will more than likely be fairly expensive. Like I said, you're better off buying a used piece here in the states.

ksss
03-04-2006, 02:24 PM
I agree with Skag. Unless you have money to burn it doesn't appear that you would need a new machine. The depreciation alone will eat your lunch in your situation (with out actually generating any income other than money saved from doing your own work). With the money you will lose on depreciation alone you would have been able to rent without any upkeep costs. I would locate a used machine with 800-1000 hours and run it and maybe sell it for what you have into it if you bought it right. However, if money isn't an issue new paint is nice.

lawnfreak
03-05-2006, 01:36 AM
If you won't be using it that much then I would buy a used one. Last Tuesday I bought a 1999 New Holland 665LX 52hp diesel with 1400 hrs. for under 12k. The machine looks and acts like a new one. For me only using it about 4 to 5 days a month, it was the way to go.

emg35
03-05-2006, 02:11 AM
I just did a bunch of demo's and the Cat and Mustang were the best we tried. The down fall with cat is the tract width and ride. The down fall with the Mustang was price and low visability. I wouldn't worry about insulting him to much though over price just make sure you get him down as much as you can.

mas
03-05-2006, 03:17 AM
i think im gonna go with a used cat 262B and save 15k or so.. a machine with under 200 hours

Scag48
03-05-2006, 03:30 AM
That would be your best bet. You can save a TON of money buying used if you can handle the fact that it is used. Not sure if you'll save $15K on a machine with less than 200 hours, maybe $8-9K.

mas
03-05-2006, 06:15 AM
it just hit me.. the 14% sales tax on the machines is the killer.. maybe thats why the bobcat prices didnt jive to well with american price of 40k

RockSet N' Grade
03-05-2006, 10:04 AM
Before you buy a skid please go sit in the seat of all makes and check out your visability. Can you see your bucket edges? Can you see out the sides?
Do they have pilot controls or old style?
We just bought a few new machines.......they were NOT white and orange.

Tigerotor77W
03-05-2006, 12:44 PM
Were they Cat?

Scag48
03-05-2006, 01:52 PM
Bucket edges, great point! That was another one of not so favorite parts about Bobcats, couldn't see the bucket lip or the sides. With our 216, you can see it all. I don't know if this visibility problem has been addressed with the newer Bobcat machines, but I know on 3 different Bobcat machines I had the same problem.

iowacatman
03-06-2006, 09:46 AM
i think im gonna go with a used cat 262B and save 15k or so.. a machine with under 200 hours

I think that's a great idea. I was doing a little mental math and figured you'd have been better off hiring it done when you figure your cost per hour. If you buy a machine for $50,000 (us) that will be worth $35,000 (us) in a year and only put 250 hours on it, your owning costs per hour would be $60. Then there is the value of your time, plus fuel and maintenance.

thepawnshop
03-06-2006, 10:06 AM
If you buy a machine for $50,000 (us) that will be worth $35,000 (us) .

So the Cat loses 30 percent in a year?!?! Hell, why am I buying anything new? I always heard that Cat had/has the best resale, so would that number be worse with other manufacturers?

iowacatman
03-06-2006, 10:09 AM
So the Cat loses 30 percent in a year?!?! Hell, why am I buying anything new? I always heard that Cat had/has the best resale, so would that number be worse with other manufacturers?

I though we were talking about a bobcat? :)

Generally speaking, you will take the biggest hit in your first year of ownership no matter what you buy. I assume you already know that and are trying to be funny.

7 IRON
03-09-2006, 05:11 PM
Bucket edges, great point! That was another one of not so favorite parts about Bobcats, couldn't see the bucket lip or the sides. With our 216, you can see it all. I don't know if this visibility problem has been addressed with the newer Bobcat machines, but I know on 3 different Bobcat machines I had the same problem.




Have You looked At John Deere 300 Series Skids?Vertical Lift,Great
Visability,Really Stable On Inclines.:weightlifter: