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AssuredServicesCo
03-05-2006, 11:04 PM
What's the best way to run wire under the driveway? I will have to run the main line and one lateral line under the driveway in the same trench and want to pull the wire through too. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Dirty Water
03-05-2006, 11:07 PM
We sleeve under gravel roadways, usually we will run a large enough sleeve (2.5"-4") or two sleeves for the amount of pipe you need to run under it.

I typically trench through the road, lay the sleeves, backfill while compacting (don't want it to sink).

I tape the wire to the pipe and push it through the sleeve all at once. (assuming you are using multiconductor).

PurpHaze
03-06-2006, 08:20 AM
What's the best way to run wire under the driveway? I will have to run the main line and one lateral line under the driveway in the same trench and want to pull the wire through too. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Mike,

Is the driveway already there or is it being installed later? If the driveway is already there you'll have to bore under it unless the money is there to saw cut, trench and then patch the drive. Depending on the size of the main line some boring bullets are large enough that you can push the main, lateral and some conduit for the wire at the same time. You can also push the main with wires (even single strand wire) taped to the end of the main to get it through. There are so many possibilities depending on the sizes of the pipe that need to go under the drive.

PurpHaze
03-06-2006, 08:21 AM
I tape the wire to the pipe and push it through the sleeve all at once. (assuming you are using multiconductor).

Single strand can be taped to the end of the main and pushed through also. :)

AssuredServicesCo
03-07-2006, 10:17 PM
I'm hoping to use a water jet on the end of a piece of pvc to get across. I think its about 18' across. What do ya'll think?

PurpHaze
03-07-2006, 10:20 PM
I'm hoping to use a water jet on the end of a piece of pvc to get across. I think its about 18' across. What do ya'll think?

What sized pipe? I've seen it done successfully with smaller pipe and I won't even begin to explain what "one major contractor that I won't name" has done with large pipe, water and a sledge hammer. :hammerhead:

kerdog
03-07-2006, 11:10 PM
I'm hoping to use a water jet on the end of a piece of pvc to get across. I think its about 18' across. What do ya'll think?

Hey Mike-----

You might check with your irrigation supplier, to refer you to someone who does 'boring' for the irrigation guys. Another irrigation co. might do bores for other companys. I've heard the price is in the neighborhood of $10 a foot?

See ya--kerdog

AssuredServicesCo
03-07-2006, 11:14 PM
Ive used 3/4" on sidewalks and it goes right under. Ive found there is usually the builders sand under the concrete even in an otherwise clay soil. Ive bid this job pretty low so Ill have to try to get it done on the cheap. Thanks, have ya'll ever tried one of those Borzit thingamabobs.

kerdog
03-07-2006, 11:33 PM
Ive used 3/4" on sidewalks and it goes right under. Ive found there is usually the builders sand under the concrete even in an otherwise clay soil. Ive bid this job pretty low so Ill have to try to get it done on the cheap. Thanks, have ya'll ever tried one of those Borzit thingamabobs.

Hey Mike-----

It seems I've found everything but sand......

The borzit tool has my interest, but never used one, (or know of anyone who has).
There is a guy south of Houston, that has come up with a pretty neat tool. Check it out, I think it is sidewalksleever.com

See ya----kerdog

jerryrwm
03-07-2006, 11:57 PM
Hey Mike-----

You might check with your irrigation supplier, to refer you to someone who does 'boring' for the irrigation guys. Another irrigation co. might do bores for other companys. I've heard the price is in the neighborhood of $10 a foot?

See ya--kerdog

Actually that is pretty cheap for boring. It is closer to $18-$20/ft plus some contractors get a mobilization/set-up charge. We were getting $12/ft nearly 20 yrs ago in San Antonio area back then.

Hell, have the Ditch Witch people come out and demo a trencher with a Roto-Witch on it.

PurpHaze
03-08-2006, 08:11 AM
We have basically the Borzit tool and have used it quite successfully with a Milwaukee right angle drill. The only major problem is the setup and breakdown time. Lots of time and then you make a five minute bore and have to break everything down and clean it up. But for 18' it would work fine. Deeper and longer bores tend to wander and dive. We have torpedos where we can change them and eventually get to a 6" pipe bored. :dizzy:

Johnson_inc
03-08-2006, 08:38 AM
If you are going to use water to get under a driveway, use caution. Over the years i have seen this go terribly wrong.

There is always way more material washed away than necessary and i have seen ashphalt driveways end up with a big dip accross them and if its concrete you may end up with a nice crack all the way accross

Glenn

PurpHaze
03-08-2006, 08:42 AM
Deeper is better. :laugh:

Mr. Vern
03-08-2006, 01:48 PM
I have the Borzit with a 3" bit and it will do the job, but is anything but fun and easy. You have to dig a big opening long enough to get the pipe and the drill into, and then you have to have a way of dewatering the area. You want to be there when the guys do it the first few times otherwise they will not dig a long enough trench for the drill and the hole will end up going on a downward slope and in 18' will come out really deep. You will know what I am referring to the first time you go to use one. It is very messy and very slow, but it will get the job done. We use an Echo gas drill that we have for tree boring crews. There is no way my guys are standing in a trench working with water every where and holding an AC powered tool. Worker's comp is too expensive in California to be killing anybody.

Dirty Water
03-08-2006, 02:10 PM
There is no way my guys are standing in a trench working with water every where and holding an AC powered tool. Worker's comp is too expensive in California to be killing anybody.

:laugh:

I spent a offseasion building houses with a friend, There were a few times while we were forming up basement footings in 18' deep holes that we would be using AC tools while standing in a foot of water.

Just keep the cord out :)

gusbuster
03-08-2006, 09:18 PM
The Borit tool....well if your working in clay\rock soil like in my area, wear good leather gloves to protect you knuckles. :)

Pretty good device when you can't get through using schd 40 pipe and water tip. Just remember to use the least amount of water possible.

It takes more time to set up the trenches than to do the shot itself.

PurpHaze
03-08-2006, 09:33 PM
We use an Echo gas drill that we have for tree boring crews. There is no way my guys are standing in a trench working with water every where and holding an AC powered tool. Worker's comp is too expensive in California to be killing anybody.

We tried that too. First bore I hit concrete under the sidewalk and the damn thing just about took my hand off. Last time we used that and went back to the R/A drill. :laugh:

PurpHaze
03-08-2006, 09:34 PM
It takes more time to set up the trenches than to do the shot itself.

Been there, done that many times. :laugh:

ESprinklers
03-08-2006, 09:37 PM
To run wire under something narrow like a sidewalk or something, we will use a piece of 1" sch 40 with a sweeper nozzle on one end and a waterhose connection on the other and just work it through. Leaves a lot of water in the aftermath, but the setup and boring for short distances is quicker. Once through, we will just snip the ends of the pipe off and presto, you have a 1" sch 40 sleeve ready for wire.

For longer runs, such as driveways, we use the original Borit tool with the 2 inch bit and a Rigid 1/2" electric drill. Can generally bore a 30' driveway in around 30 - 40 minutes. Cleanup takes a bit getting all the mud and debris off the equipment, but that's the price you pay. Now this doesn't include the time it takes to dig the trench at the point of boring nor on the other end. That generally takes longer than the actual boring does. Once bored, a 1" PVC sleeve with a cap on one end can be slipped through with minimal effort.

The Borit is well worth the $300 bucks or so it cost. We use ours all the time to bore.

Mr. Vern
03-08-2006, 10:02 PM
:laugh:

I spent a offseasion building houses with a friend, There were a few times while we were forming up basement footings in 18' deep holes that we would be using AC tools while standing in a foot of water.

Just keep the cord out :)

Actually getting the cord in the water is not the real danger. That should blow the circuit breaker, it's the chance that you get between the hot wire and ground that worries me. I know that GFCI's and the mostly plastic drills that we use today dramatically reduce the risks, but even so I aint risking it. I have not once managed to keep our gas drill dry, so I aint bettin we could do it with the electric one.
As far as hitting a rock or concrete goes, they say it will move a rock out of the way, but I have no way of knowing if it does or not because I can't see in the hole when I am done. I do know that it will not go through roots or concrete as I have failed to get through driveways with them under it. In fact the concrete ruined my bit and I had to weld some beads on it and grind them to a cutting edge to finish one job. Probably time to get another bit.
Has anyone used one of the boring units that attach to the mini skids? I have been seeing them on Ebay and have thought about picking one up.

kerdog
03-09-2006, 12:38 AM
To the several of ya'll that have used a small boring tool........

I wondered if using shorter lengths of pipe, would cut down on the length of trench needing to be opened up.(Yea, o.k. obviously) Like using several 3' sections for a driveway, instead of 10' sections....using a couple of 2' pieces for a sidewalk. You can have whatever length pipe you want cut & threaded at just about anywhere. Is it that much trouble 'adding' sections vs. opening a longer trench for longer pieces of pipe? I've also seen/read/heard to keep water flow to a bare minimum, that not that much water is needed,true/false?

I think the tool is reasonable, price wise, but you have to have a good 1/2' drill (preferably a right angle like is suggested), and those things (good strong ones) can get a little pricey.

See ya-----kerdog

Mr. Vern
03-09-2006, 01:27 AM
You are definitely correct that shorter sections require shorter pipe and changing them is not that difficult. It is a tradeoff or balancing act between the time to dig a longer trench vs. the time to change the sections. It really depends on how far you have to trench. I usually start out with a 3' pipe and then slide a 6 footer in once the trench is started and level. The amount of water you need seems to vary dramatically based on the soil type, but I have not yet been able to do one that didn't make a muddy mess. Also, you want to check the chuck on the drill you plan to use, the hex shaft that comes on the tool will not fit in all 1/2" chucks. In fact I found that it would only fit in the one - got lucky that it was the gas powered drill that had that chuck on it. You either need to get a drill with a 5/8" chuck, or be willing to grind the edges off of the hex shaft. I wasn't comfortable doing that, but you can probably get away with it. I would definitely recommend the tool, it does what they say it will do, just not as easy as the ads led me to believe. As far as having the pipes made, I almost made that mistake, I was actually going to buy a pipe threader for the job when I stumbled upon the threaded pipes at Home Cheapo. They were in the sprinkler section of our store and they have heavy steel pipes ranging from 6" to 9' and were already threaded on both ends. All you gotta do is grab several of those and then go to the electrical section and get some couplers and you are in business.

PurpHaze
03-09-2006, 08:34 AM
Vern hit on some very good points about boring this way. :clapping:

If I have to make a bore we set up the trenching in the manner that makes it easy for it. We'll already have the longest trench coming from the direction we will bore. Then we'll cross-trench deep on the other side of the sidewalk/drive which allows play as far as the bore not being perfectly straight. Sometimes I'll already have the trenching completed on the other side also, but usually only if the bore involves pipe 1-1/2" or smaller. By having the cross-trench on the opposite side of the bore all I care about is getting the bore through. Then if necessary I can use 90s to line up with the trenching on the other side. I won't do this "far side" trenching when I'm working with large main line bores. The bore trench is then dug out with the backhoe which allows plenty of room for the bore and pipe(s). Once it comes out in the cross-trench then I'll pick up the trenching on the other side to line up with the bore.

The chuck is the weak link of the whole unit. You may think you have it real tight but sometimes it will work itself off through vibration. We have gone through many chucks and boring adapters over the years.

We also carry galvanized pipe of various lengths on our trailer. We'll carry 20', 10', 8', 5' and 3' lengths so we can use the combination that works best for that particular bore. We have a pipe threader so we can cut/thread new pipe when necessary and each length has a cap on one end and a coupling on the other end to protect the threads.

kerdog
03-09-2006, 08:36 AM
Hey Mr.Vern-----

Thanks for the response, for the benefit of all. I thought trying to use shorter pieces of pipe might be beneficial. That's a good idea, starting with a shorter one, and then using longer lengths. I guess water usage would depend on conditions, especially if trying to 'jiggle' a rock outta the way.
A 5/8 drill (chuck), wow, now that is getting pricey.

A couple of other similar products for boring are made by Perfecto and Wheeler Rex. And then a not so similar, UnderWunder. (Sorry for no links)

See ya-----kerdog

PurpHaze
03-09-2006, 10:44 PM
I guess water usage would depend on conditions, especially if trying to 'jiggle' a rock outta the way.

Whenever I make a bore I open the water valve all the way. It might end up being a little messier but a pair of rubber boots works wonders. With the water on all the way the slurry carries away quicker. I'll normally bore a few feet and then back out slightly to carry the slurry out. By the time I get the bore bit all the way through then I'm immediately ready to push pipe through with no obstructions. If I need a large diameter hole for pipe then we'll change bits to either one of two triangle or torpedo bits we have and bore backwards while pulling out. On 6" pipe it will require running a third torpedo bit through the hole and then changing on the other side to the "big daddy" torpedo for the final diameter size.

The more I read the above the more boring sounds a little sexual. Hope Sheshovel doesn't show up now. :laugh:

kerdog
03-09-2006, 10:54 PM
The more I read the above the more boring sounds a little sexual. Hope Sheshovel doesn't show up now. :laugh:

Purphaze---

You're cruisin' for a bruisin'.........shame...shame...shame...:laugh:

PurpHaze
03-09-2006, 10:59 PM
She'll wup my butt for sure. :hammerhead:

sheshovel
03-09-2006, 11:44 PM
No I forgive you Purp..because I know it's from you reading me and my bad influence upon your pure and innocent mind that give you such thoughts now.... that would have never invaded your mind before.I take full responsiblity for warping your way of thinking..shop talk turns you on now...I am so sorry!See what I haave done!!:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
Poor Purp!

Mdirrigation
03-10-2006, 09:00 AM
Under the driveway , we just use the missile ( some call it a mole ) or the boring rods on the plow. Just dig a 1 foot wide by 4 foot long trench 18 inches deep , level the missile , and fire up the compressor . Once you are thru silde in a piece of inch and a half pvc for a sleeve and you are good to go . Driving pipes with a sledge thats too much work , water jetting under asphalt can cause the drive to sink. I do bores for electricians and plumbers
for 18 dollars a foot with a 400 dollar minimum charge . We can shoot 55 feet
between holes . I am a firm believer in the right tools for the job . You can buy a missile complete for around $ 3500.00 , and use your tow behind compressor

Flagen23
03-10-2006, 09:05 AM
Boring seems to work best for us.

Mr. Vern
03-11-2006, 01:36 AM
Hey Purp - you must dig some serious trenches before you bore if you run the water full on. If I did that I would be swimming in water not wading in it. I do find that more water is definitely faster at least to a point.

One other thing you wanna be aware of is that the bit is screwed on and if your or your guys decides to back the bit out by reversing the drill it's bye bye baby for that bit. Had one of my guys standing there looking at the threaded end of the pipe last week. Right then I showed up and saw him, I knew right away what he had done. When I asked him "did ya reverse the drill" he just hung his head in shame. Took me a bit, but I actually was able to calculate the expected exit point and drove a small rod backwards into the end of the bit and got it out. Couldn't do that again in a million tries I don't believe. You definitely want to be careful not to make that mistake.

PurpHaze
03-11-2006, 09:42 AM
Hey Purp - you must dig some serious trenches before you bore if you run the water full on. If I did that I would be swimming in water not wading in it. I do find that more water is definitely faster at least to a point.

Maybe it's the difference in our valves or something as to how much water we're talking about. On short, small bores I'll just use the trencher's trench and do the bore while on my knees next to the trench. If I'm boring large pipe then I'm opening up a trench with the Bobcat backhoe. If it's a huge line or a long bore that will take some time and the changing of bits/torpedos then I'll dam up the end of the trench nearest the bore and set up the Honda pump. Keeps me high and dry. :clapping:

One other thing you wanna be aware of is that the bit is screwed on and if your or your guys decides to back the bit out by reversing the drill it's bye bye baby for that bit. Had one of my guys standing there looking at the threaded end of the pipe last week. Right then I showed up and saw him, I knew right away what he had done. When I asked him "did ya reverse the drill" he just hung his head in shame. Took me a bit, but I actually was able to calculate the expected exit point and drove a small rod backwards into the end of the bit and got it out. Couldn't do that again in a million tries I don't believe. You definitely want to be careful not to make that mistake.

Yup... NEVER reverse the drill. Besides possibly losing your boring bit you may have to start a new bore hole in a different place all over again. :laugh:

AssuredServicesCo
03-14-2006, 11:57 PM
I got under by using a 20' legnth of 3/4 " class 200 pipe. It gave me some flexibility without having to trench back too far from the side of the driveway before getting started. Took me about 20 minutes to ream it out good. Was able to then tape together a 1" main line, 3'4" lateral and my wire to run under. Hope all go this way. It cost me about 15 bucks in materials and I can use it again.

Mr. Vern
03-15-2006, 12:13 AM
I got under by using a 20' legnth of 3/4 " class 200 pipe. It gave me some flexibility without having to trench back too far from the side of the driveway before getting started. Took me about 20 minutes to ream it out good. Was able to then tape together a 1" main line, 3'4" lateral and my wire to run under. Hope all go this way. It cost me about 15 bucks in materials and I can use it again.
What type of driveway was it and what kind of material. I have found that concrete drives with heavy clays are very forgiving with this approach, but look on on the asphalt ones with high sand content under them.

PurpHaze
03-15-2006, 08:01 AM
I got under by using a 20' legnth of 3/4 " class 200 pipe. It gave me some flexibility without having to trench back too far from the side of the driveway before getting started. Took me about 20 minutes to ream it out good. Was able to then tape together a 1" main line, 3'4" lateral and my wire to run under. Hope all go this way. It cost me about 15 bucks in materials and I can use it again.

Good job! Now you're on your way to becoming a borer. :) :drinkup:

AssuredServicesCo
03-15-2006, 08:59 AM
Makes since...I'm already boring. Ha Ha!