Well, it looks like I have to fire one

[DFW Area Landscaper]

A new guy I hired took 1,200 door hangers with him over the weekend. He was supposed to deliver a route I had given him on Saturday.

The secret shopper indicated he had not recieved the door hanger by Saturday night. The truck was gone for at least some time on Saturday because I stopped in at our storage facility that day and it was not there. I double checked with the secret shopper late Sunday afternoon...still nothing. So I drover through some of the neighborhoods on his door hanger route sheet. Nothing. Even the homes for sale that appear vacant. Nothing.

Either the worker comes in this morning with a story that he only delivered a few hundred on Saturday and then called it quits or I will have to let him go.

Too harsh? Or should I give the guy a second chance?

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

[geogunn]

if you handed me 1200 door hangers... I'd hand them back to you.

GEO :laugh:

[SPLC]

Ask him why, I'm sure he'll either lie or come up with a story. If he begs and pleads, tell him that you will keep him on, but will cut his pay for a period of time. You are the boss. Or just cut him loose, that's what I'd do.

[Squizzy246B]

When all is said and done the relationship between boss and employee has to have trust. If you can't trust him he can't work for you.

If he comes back and lies get it over with and move on.

[work_it]

DFW, how were you compensating him for his time? Did he have to punch a time clock, keep his own log, or did you just plan on estimating the time it should take? It seems to me it would be the first thing I would check.

[B&D Lawn Care]

Company vehicle, a job to do? Why should you even ask. CAN HIS ASS!!!

[work_it]

Company vehicle, a job to do? Why should you even ask. CAN HIS ASS!!!
Yes, he used a company vehicle...for how long? During that time how many flyers did he hand out/distribute? Compare those to the hours he worked.
If he used a company vehicle for personal use fire him.
If he logged time that he obviously didn't work fire him.
If he claims to have handed out flyers he didn't...fire him.

All I'm saying is to do a little investigation. eg-What if he comes in and says something like...I came in and got the truck, but had a family emergency. I ended up parking the truck at home and took my_________to the hospital/or whatever. I still have all the flyers and didn't have a chance to work this weekend.

I know it's a stretch, but things happen. If he's honest isn't trying to take advantage of you then give him another chance. On the other hand, if he isn't being honest and has taken advantage of you/your trust it'll be easy to determine.

[Lux Lawn]

DFW,I would check his log to see how long he said it took him to pass out these door hangers.Maybe something came up and he only worked a couple of hours...I would wait until after talking to him before making any final decisions.
Looks like your secret shoppers are paying off.

[walker-talker]

If he was one on my employees and he lied to me, I would fire him. It would be deserving and set a good example for the other empoyees.

[DFW Area Landscaper]

Well, I had to let him go. He insisted he delivered every house on the route sheet. The secret shopper did not get one and he noticed a vacant house down the street did not have one the day after. I drove through the neighborhoods he was scheduled to do the day after, around 5:00pm, and didn't see a single door hanger anywhere. Usually, there are at least a few here and there that aren't picked up within 24 hours, especially on the vacant homes.

All four crew leaders were present when I let him go, so hopefully, they realize I am not bluffing about the secret shoppers. Now I have to find another replacement.

Why can't these guys just be honest????

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

[Lux Lawn]

Well it sounds to me like you cought him in a flat out lie,and he had your truck.

[Runner]

Now it begs the question.....Where are the doorhangers?

[work_it]

Now it begs the question.....Where are the doorhangers?
Good question. I would want those back. Letting him throw them away is like throwing away money. As for the crappy employee...it's better that you found out now, that he's a lying theif, than later when he could have cost you a lot of money.

[RB Lawn]

I'd tell him I want the doorhangers back, or I deduct the price for them from his last checkpayup

[CAG]

i agree you made a good move getting rid of him. One thought is you warned your other employees of the secret shopper now if another is a dishonest employee you might find out a harder way. I always test new workers with simple things after they get in the comfort stage, but never come clean and let them no that I was testing them..

[DFW Area Landscaper]

It sucked letting that poor guy go. He seemed to really want the job. I just can't figure out what happened.

He insisted he delivered the entire route. Problem is, I have not received a single call from this route yet. If I had a few calls from that route, I could assume that he delivered part of it and I'd give the guy a second chance. But I have ZERO calls from that area and it's been 48 hours. 80% of the responses come within 48 hours of the delivery. I can only assume that 100% of those door hangers went in the trash.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

[SWD]

Could your employee have gotten the wrong route?
BTW what in the heck is a secret shopper?
Either you are checking up on your employees or not!
Simply state!

[Paradise Landscapes]

Couldn't now use a crew leader to deliver them?
More than likely, I would ask him where he had put the door hangers after the fact you caught him in a lie. Then, if you don't get them back, fire him and with-hold the cost amount of door hangers plus 30.00 for him lying to you.

[Howard Roark]

It sucked letting that poor guy go. He seemed to really want the job. I just can't figure out what happened.

He insisted he delivered the entire route. Problem is, I have not received a single call from this route yet. If I had a few calls from that route, I could assume that he delivered part of it and I'd give the guy a second chance. But I have ZERO calls from that area and it's been 48 hours. 80% of the responses come within 48 hours of the delivery. I can only assume that 100% of those door hangers went in the trash.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

I would suggest using people OTHER than your workers to pass out door hangers. Passing them out sucks, sometimes no matter what the pay for some. The workers would rather be running equipment, at least making lawns look good rather than the mind numbing physical job of putting hangers out.

[Evergreenpros]

It sucked letting that poor guy go. He seemed to really want the job. I just can't figure out what happened.

He insisted he delivered the entire route. Problem is, I have not received a single call from this route yet. If I had a few calls from that route, I could assume that he delivered part of it and I'd give the guy a second chance. But I have ZERO calls from that area and it's been 48 hours. 80% of the responses come within 48 hours of the delivery. I can only assume that 100% of those door hangers went in the trash.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper


He really wanted a paycheck, but it's obvious he didn't give a hoot about his job, typical.

[oslo]

Do not follow the advice about deducting from his check. While you might get away with it, the penalties are stiff if he does catch this and file a greivance with the state. Chalk it up as a loss and be glad you caught him now.

[Paradise Landscapes]

Do not follow the advice about deducting from his check. While you might get away with it, the penalties are stiff if he does catch this and file a greivance with the state. Chalk it up as a loss and be glad you caught him now.


I was curious, I mean, When I was working for another LCO A long time ago, it was specified in the employee manual/policy that if we steal and/or are caught, break anything, it is deducted out of our pay leagally.

[SodKing]

This is NH state law....It doesn't look like you can withdraw $ from his check unless you and he have specifically signed a contract allowing you to do so...your state is probably similar...

TITLE XXIII
LABOR
CHAPTER 275
PROTECTIVE LEGISLATION
Payment of Wages
Section 275:48
275:48 Withholding of Wages. –
I. No employer may withhold or divert any portion of an employee's wages unless:
(a) The employer is required or empowered to do so by state or federal law.
(b) The employer has a written authorization by the employee for deductions for a lawful purpose accruing to the benefit of the employee as provided in regulations issued by the commissioner or as provided in subparagraph (d).
(c) The deductions are pursuant to any rules or regulations for medical, surgical, or hospital care or service, without financial benefit to the employer and openly, clearly, and in due course recorded in the employer's books.
(d) Upon an employee's written request, an employer may deduct the following items from the employee's wages, provided that the employer shall provide a written itemized accounting of such requested deductions to the employee at least once per month:
(1) Voluntary contributions into cafeteria plans or flexible benefit plans, or both, as authorized by section 125 or section 132 of the Internal Revenue Code.
(2) Voluntary payments by the employee for the following:
(A) Child care fees by a licensed child care provider.
(B) Parking fees.
(C) Pharmaceutical items, gift shop, and cafeteria items purchased on site of a hospital by hospital employees.
(3) Voluntary installment payments of legitimate loans made by the employer to the employee as evidenced by a document that includes the following:
(A) The time the payments will begin and end.
(B) The amounts to be deducted.
(C) A specific agreement regarding whether the employer is allowed to deduct any amount outstanding from final wages at the termination of employment.
(4) Voluntary payments for the recovery of accidental overpayment of wages when the following conditions are met:
(A) The recovery is agreed to in writing.
(B) The deduction for the overpayment begins one pay period following the date the parties execute the written agreement.
(C) The written agreement specifies:
(i) The date the recovery of the overpayment will begin and end.
(ii) The amount to be deducted, which shall be agreed upon by the employer and the employee but which shall, in no event, be more than 20 percent of the employee's gross pay in any pay period.
(iii) A specific agreement regarding whether the employer is allowed to deduct any amount outstanding from final wages at the termination of employment.
(5) Voluntary payments for the recovery of tuition for non-required educational costs paid by the employer for the employee to an educational institution when the specific deduction is authorized in writing prior to the deduction as evidenced by a document that includes the following:
(A) The time the payments will begin and end.
(B) The amounts to be deducted.
(C) A specific agreement regarding whether the employer is allowed to deduct any amount outstanding from final wages at the termination of employment.
(e) The employee requests in writing that deductions may be made for contributions to a political action committee from the employee's wages.
(f) The employer has a written request from the employee, made at the time of the original request without coercion or pressure, that authorizes the employer to deduct from the employee's final wages at the termination of employment any amount the employee may owe for voluntary payments for vacation pay, paid time off pay, earned time pay, personal time pay, annual pay, sick pay, sick dependent pay, and bereavement pay made pursuant to a written employment policy as required by RSA 275:49, III, when the payments have been requested and paid to the employee in advance of eligibility.
II. If an employer making a deduction of an employee's wages under paragraph I fails to make any payment relative to such deduction on the employee's behalf, and such employee loses any benefit or fails to meet an obligation caused by such failure, the employer shall be liable for such lost benefit or failed obligation. For any benefits provided to an employee paid for entirely by the employer without employee deductions, if the employer fails to make timely payments for such benefits and the employee loses any benefit or fails to meet any obligations caused by such failure, then the employer shall be liable for such lost benefits or failed obligations. The employer shall also be liable for any cost incurred by the employee caused by the employer's failure to make such payments.
III. An insurer or plan administrator of a self-funded plan shall notify an employee in writing of termination of an employee benefit plan pursuant to the notification requirements of RSA 415:18, VII(g)(4) or the Employee Retirement Income Security Act, as applicable.
IV. If a plan administrator fails to comply with the applicable employee notification requirements of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act, then the plan administrator shall be liable for lost benefits or failed obligations to the employee resulting from the termination of the employee's benefit plan. Such liability extends only for the period of noncompliance beginning on the date notification to the employee was required under the Employee Retirement Income Security Act and ending on the date proper notification was made. Such liability for plan administrators is secondary to the employer's liability during this period and becomes primary only after the department of labor determines that the employer is financially unable to pay all or any part of the employee's lost benefits and failed obligations. Such liability for plan administrators in no way diminishes the employer's liability during this or any period.
V. For purposes of this section "plan administrator" means the fiduciary of the plan named in the adoption agreement who has the duties specified in the plan.

Source. 1937, 149:1. RL 212:20. RSA 275:48. 1963, 237:3. 1994, 138:1, eff. Jan. 1, 1995. 2004, 145:2, eff. Jan. 1, 2005. 2005, 241:3, 4, eff. Jan. 1, 2006; 297:1, eff. Oct. 22, 2005.

[sheshovel]

I don't know what to tell ya DWF.....besides assuming sometimes can make an azz out of you and me..you have no real proof..one secret shopper..you dident notice any on the doors..how bout knocking on a few other doors in that area just for the heck of it and ask them if the got a hanger on their door?

[Freddy_Kruger]

1200 door hangers should take at least 10-15 hours to deliver. No?

My Door Hangers I make myself and I do a word merge to pint out the addresses on them so they are in fact addressed mail. I hire to ppl and baby sit them the whole day giving them flyers at the start of each street or whatever. I put a lot of time in those damn flyers and want to make sure they are delivered but this is for window cleaning for lawn care (I'm just about to expand) I was going to put out a generic flyer, half page 20lb paper, is there a reason you put out door hangers for lawn care? Wouldn't it be easier to hire one of those companies that deliver ad bags?
That's what I was thinking of but I'll say this, ppl respond a lot better when they see there address on a flyer.

edit: no offense but my first thought would be that the flyers are thrown away, I would never trust anybody like that. If I tell them to put it in the mail box I tell them to leave a corner sticking out so I can easily locate them (the flyer guys) .

[work_it]

Freddy, do not leave anything but registered U.S. Mail in a mailbox unless you want some huge fines. A mailbox is for mail only....not flyers.

[Freddy_Kruger]

Freddy, do not leave anything but registered U.S. Mail in a mailbox unless you want some huge fines. A mailbox is for mail only....not flyers.
ROFL, I'm Canadian, completely immune from the U.S Mail service. I make my guys put flyers even when they don't want any advertising "Save our Trees" etc..Got some of my best customers that way...

[oslo]

It is much the same in PA and NC that I know of, probably most states I would guess.

Better just to give him whats owed, cut your losses and be done with him. On the off-chance that he has a brain and contacts the State, or that he is a psycho and takes his revenge out on your equipment, better just to avoid the potential headache altoghter.

[topsites]

Why can't these guys just be honest????

Because...
Nobody in their right mind wants to do door hangers. Door hangers are one of the lowest jobs on the face of this earth, possibly right next to suiting up as a monkey and prancing and dancing on a busy Interstate with a sign (yeah it sounds cool and funny and catchy until it's you standing out there).

If you did that to me, I'd walk out on you... But maybe, just maybe I would take a chance and see if I could get paid for doing nothing, just because I already know my choices: Walk out, or take a chance and get fired (or maybe not, maybe I don't get caught - either way I'm out of a job, so why not take the chance).

The math is simple.

[oslo]

At least in PA, the laws are really anti-employer on this issue.

1. When an employee is fired, laid off, or quits, all monies owed must be paid by the next scheduled payday.

In regards to deductions.

1. An employee must give employers explicit written permission, at least 30 days in advance for any Non tax related deductions.

2. It is not valid for an employer to have employees sign "blanket" authorization contracts at the time of hire to cover any future deductions..ie theft, destruction or non-returning of company property(although many employers do this)

3. Furthermore, in cases when employees do give written permission for a deduction, the deduction must
a. not reduce the employees gross pay to below minumum wage
b. benefit the employee (ie. 401k, health benefits, employer loan, etc..)

[topsites]

I don't know what to tell ya DWF.....besides assuming sometimes can make an azz out of you and me..you have no real proof..one secret shopper..you dident notice any on the doors..how bout knocking on a few other doors in that area just for the heck of it and ask them if the got a hanger on their door?

No, I do agree with DWF in the respect that nothing got done. I've done enough flyers back in the days to where I know, if I drive down a street even a day after I lettered it, I should see at least ONE flyer... Most of the time you can still see them everywhere. Not much genius involved in that part, you can do further checking but I can fairly guarantee this is a case of where if it smells, walks, looks, and quacks like a duck... It's...yeah...

[Brianslawn]

No, I do agree with DWF in the respect that nothing got done. I've done enough flyers back in the days to where I know, if I drive down a street even a day after I lettered it, I should see at least ONE flyer... Most of the time you can still see them everywhere. Not much genius involved in that part, you can do further checking but I can fairly guarantee this is a case of where if it smells, walks, looks, and quacks like a duck... It's...yeah...

fried chicken?


dfw? why are you still hiring americans and why didnt you have them sign an imdemnity agreement?

[Freddy_Kruger]

Because...
Nobody in their right mind wants to do door hangers. Door hangers are one of the lowest jobs on the face of this earth, possibly right next to suiting up as a monkey and prancing and dancing on a busy Interstate with a sign (yeah it sounds cool and funny and catchy until it's you standing out there).

If you did that to me, I'd walk out on you... But maybe, just maybe I would take a chance and see if I could get paid for doing nothing, just because I already know my choices: Walk out, or take a chance and get fired (or maybe not, maybe I don't get caught - either way I'm out of a job, so why not take the chance).

The math is simple.
Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. I once had a good friend, an experienced window cleaner quit because having to deliver flyers was considered beneath him and I couldn't blame him. Now I just hire from day labour places because they come to work and actually consider delivering flyers to be so much easier than what they usually do.

[Paradise Landscapes]

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. I once had a good friend, an experienced window cleaner quit because having to deliver flyers was considered beneath him and I couldn't blame him. Now I just hire from day labour places because they come to work and actually consider delivering flyers to be so much easier than what they usually do.

sounds like a true statement.

[nephilim0167]

Sucks you had to let the guy go but I agree... being honest is the easiest thing you can do in life. If he can't even do that, how would he ever manage to assist your company. However, if you get a call from someone on the route he "delivered" hopefully you wont feel like too much of an ass :hammerhead: Good call none the less.