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turf hokie
03-07-2006, 06:11 PM
I just got an email saying that they have not come to an agreement for 2006 yet. Lesco is still giving the pricing but is this the end of a good thing or is this just normal practice??

GrowinGreeninc
03-07-2006, 06:29 PM
Has anyone received their lesco rebate check? They ended their discount on parts and equipment a while back although Symbiot never made it public.
This the main reason for our relationship with symbiot so this could be bye bye for both!

turf hokie
03-07-2006, 06:40 PM
That is the main reason I joined symbiot also, perhaps they are playing hard ball b/c John Deere wants in on the fertilizer programs???

Let the rumor mill start turning

Oh yeah, no rebate check yet either for me.....could use it right now.

New Green
03-07-2006, 07:19 PM
Lesco with Symbiot was the main purpose for Joining. No rebate check here yet, but was told 2 weeks. Lesco is holding it up??? I think Symbiot should get a fair survey out to all Lesco/ Symbiot customers and find out how it will impact Lesco's sales. At that point, Lesco should decide if they want our business. JMO

FINN
03-07-2006, 08:04 PM
I more concerned about symbiot's ability to sustain it's relationships with P3 partners than I am about a rebate. I don't have the luxury to invest in relationships that aren't sustainable.

I can hardly wait for the "corporate speak" that will be generated from this.

"Shoot low boys, their riding sheltand ponies!"

DUSTYCEDAR
03-07-2006, 09:00 PM
wondering if the sun will come out tomorrow

ynvvbr
03-07-2006, 09:20 PM
Asked my Lesco rep today he made a few calls and they said that Lesco had paid out the rebates when they were supposed to Dec...... that's what they say but who knows. Crap gets so deep sometimes with the speak you dont know what is what anymore.

turf hokie
03-07-2006, 09:22 PM
wondering if the sun will come out tomorrow

No it isn't the end of the world, just another major burr in my saddle.:hammerhead:

DUSTYCEDAR
03-07-2006, 09:38 PM
i feel like i lost a wheel of my tricycle

FINN
03-07-2006, 09:48 PM
If Symbiot does'nt get their bile in a pile, were all gonna be singing that song........

"You picked a fine time to leave me Lucile....... Four hungry children and a crop in the field........"

New Green
03-07-2006, 10:23 PM
Asked my Lesco rep today he made a few calls and they said that Lesco had paid out the rebates when they were supposed to Dec...... that's what they say but who knows. Crap gets so deep sometimes with the speak you dont know what is what anymore.

I do agree.. It is hard to figure out who to believe less.. I paid 750.00 to Symbiot to get better pricing from a used Car dealer (Lesco). Lesco has quite the Matrix of pricing. And after joining Symbiot last year, I found out how good the great deals from Lesco weren't. With all the postings about Symbiot's finances, I would not be surprised if they are holding things up. Slippery business we are in.

Dusty.. always appreciate the posts. You crack me up sometimes. Way to take life not so seriously.

KLMlawn
03-07-2006, 10:31 PM
As of a few weeks ago, the pricing was still pretty good on most things, although there was quite a bit of flucuation from day to day "up a dollar, down a dollar", now it has gone up anywhere from $5 to over $200 per item depending ....

We are no longer in "National Account Pricing" we were switched to Tier level 12, which is by no means anywhere close to where we were before.

Supposedly, this was done in error and we will be switch back to something a bit better, but by how much .... only time will tell.

I hope that the management at Symbiot understands that if some arrangement very close to what we had comes through .... they will probably be loosing a good portion of their membership.

Dallas Turf
03-07-2006, 11:03 PM
The best thing lesco could do is to offer a buy in program directly to the contractors $300 or so per year, give them national account pricing, and do the rebates or store credits like they were offering Symbiot Members. My pricing that I have gotten so far this year is up about 20% over last year on the fert products that I use. The chemicals I can buy elsewhere and save 15-25% off what symbiots price already is.

I see 2 organizations that need to get their crap together.

No Lesco Rebate yet, and they were about 60-90 days behind on paying for work.

KLMlawn
03-07-2006, 11:11 PM
The best thing lesco could do is to offer a buy in program directly to the contractors $300 or so per year, give them national account pricing, and do the rebates or store credits like they were offering Symbiot Members. My pricing that I have gotten so far this year is up about 20% over last year on the fert products that I use. The chemicals I can buy elsewhere and save 15-25% off what symbiots price already is.

I see 2 organizations that need to get their crap together.

No Lesco Rebate yet, and they were about 60-90 days behind on paying for work.

Yeah, that is where I am at, I can get pretty much the same thing and not waste $750.

lawn king
03-08-2006, 05:57 AM
I was in shock yesterday at the the lesco S.C. The symbiot discount is a fraction of what it used to be! I will not renew for next year if the lesco portfolio doe's not expand bigtime!

DUSTYCEDAR
03-08-2006, 08:16 AM
what bothers me is they waited till now to tell us
i guess ignorance is bliss or it was

lawnservice
03-08-2006, 02:11 PM
some time ago there was this same type of conversation in here about symbiot.
I brought up a few points on how symbiot was screwing their members. lol

i got ripped by many saying that they weren't interested ...as long as they got a good break on pricing from lesco.

i know i'll get ripped again but i got to say...we are not members of symbiot although they have approached us sevreal times to join. we do our own nogotiating for prices and we do as well and even better than symbiot members.

i was in the local lesco service center some time ago when symbiot was fairly new. standing around talking to a friend who owns his own full service landcare business and was a proud symbiot member. we both ordered the same exact product....guess who paid less? (hint: not the symbiot member)

i've thought of selling my negotiation skills for...say $500


really folks, you can call me a liar if you'd like it really is no sweat off my nose, but you got to do your own nogotiating and you got to play hard ball especially when dealing with lesco. we dont even deal with our service center reps any more, we have them tell the regional manager to call us AND we tell them we need him to call by the end of the week....or we go elsewhere

good luck to you guys, i hope you get your rebates soon

FINN
03-08-2006, 02:23 PM
i remember your thoughts on this. do you remember starting your business and looking for ways to be competitive?

DUSTYCEDAR
03-08-2006, 02:49 PM
i guess we r just a bunch of Sissy's huh finn clueless lemming that follow a fad.

lawnservice
03-08-2006, 02:51 PM
i remember your thoughts on this. do you remember starting your business and looking for ways to be competitive?
first ..I'm flattered you remember

second.. i'm not a business owner, just the operations manager (just want to be honest and not make out to be something i'm not)

and by all means look for ways to be competitive, but when warning signs are all around and many others are having disappointments we should listen and reconcider our choices?
When approached by some organization that tells us we need to give them money so we can get discounts.... one should begin to question that organization and do serious research on them. At least thats my take on it. Especially a smaller business that needs every penny they spend give them some sort of return on investment.

cant blame anyone for wanting to do better. all i'm saying is be carefull, do some homework by researching, listen to what others have to say about it, sleep on it, then decide what to do.

Symbiot has been the topic of discussion on many green industry message boards. the facts are out there and not to difficult to find.

I do sincerly hope everything works out for all involved.

PS
since we are talking about organizations who claim to be the best thing since sliced bread.....beware of 1-800-Lawncare

lawnservice
03-08-2006, 02:53 PM
i guess we r just a bunch of Sissy's huh finn clueless lemming that follow a fad.
certainly not my opinions of anyone on this message board.


but like i said, "no sweat off my nose"

New Green
03-08-2006, 02:58 PM
some time ago there was this same type of conversation in here about symbiot.
I brought up a few points on how symbiot was screwing their members. lol

i got ripped by many saying that they weren't interested ...as long as they got a good break on pricing from lesco.

i know i'll get ripped again but i got to say...we are not members of symbiot although they have approached us sevreal times to join. we do our own nogotiating for prices and we do as well and even better than symbiot members.

i was in the local lesco service center some time ago when symbiot was fairly new. standing around talking to a friend who owns his own full service landcare business and was a proud symbiot member. we both ordered the same exact product....guess who paid less? (hint: not the symbiot member)

i've thought of selling my negotiation skills for...say $500


really folks, you can call me a liar if you'd like it really is no sweat off my nose, but you got to do your own nogotiating and you got to play hard ball especially when dealing with lesco. we dont even deal with our service center reps any more, we have them tell the regional manager to call us AND we tell them we need him to call by the end of the week....or we go elsewhere

good luck to you guys, i hope you get your rebates soon

I am not going to rip on this one.. although I did last post. As stated before, I thought I got the best price on an insecticide. I was getting hosed by my AG guy. I buy 5 tons per year. Not huge, but not a small amount either. Certainly should have gotten some decent pricing. After pulling teeth and order 100 bags at a time, I beat them down to 25.00 / bag... (25lb bags) I join for 750 / yr and whala.. I find out the new price is 20.70/ bag. This year at 19.90. Without the rebate, that is 4.30 * 400 bags.. I have saved plenty on that one product. Now you may want to believe we are all poor negotiators? But now the little guy has the buying power of the big guy. I was told only TGCL is getting better pricing???? So the rebate is an added bonus.. If it does not arrive no loss here. If it does arrive, well there is another 2700 reasons to re-sign with symbiot. JMO. BTW it would tick me off that a little guy can walk in and get as good if not better pricing than I do. It is not a fair system when a little guy who does low volume gets low pricing.

lawnservice
03-08-2006, 03:28 PM
i should have known better to even open a post with the words 'lesco and symbiot' in it.

but i did *sigh*


just freaks me out when i hear folks bitchin....then they turn around and defend??

i take my hat off to all you folks who started your own businesses and i truely wish everyone a great and profitable season

KLR
03-08-2006, 04:18 PM
i should have known better to even open a post with the words 'lesco and symbiot' in it.

but i did *sigh*


just freaks me out when i hear folks bitchin....then they turn around and defend??


when will you ever learn???:rolleyes:


oh, by the way, i agree with you 100% and since i'm not as polite as you, yes many are clueless lemming that follow a fad

lawnservice
03-08-2006, 04:22 PM
when will you ever learn???:rolleyes:


oh, by the way, i agree with you 100% and since i'm not as polite as you, yes many are clueless lemming that follow a fad
now you went and done it!
better get on a pair of steel toed shoes, i got a feeling some may want to step on your toes with that last line

KLMlawn
03-08-2006, 04:25 PM
i should have known better to even open a post with the words 'lesco and symbiot' in it.

but i did *sigh*


just freaks me out when i hear folks bitchin....then they turn around and defend??

i take my hat off to all you folks who started your own businesses and i truely wish everyone a great and profitable season

Not to go off topic to far, but have you thought that maybe some of the members of Symbiot are small companies either just starting out or don't have a large client base for them to be able to go and deal directly with Ohio and the regional managers to negotiate a better deal directly? A company that hasn't got the volume of customers yet and is willing to pay a fee ($750) to save that extra $4-$5 a bag so they can afford to stay in business and let it grow to a point where they just might be able deal directly and not have to worry about belonging to a "buying group".
Then whatever your reason for belonging to this organization, you blindly pay your dues only to find in the end what was available in the past and was promised for the future may in fact has all but disappeared.
It really doesn't matter if you are buying 5 ton or 50 ton, $5 a bag is still $5 a bag .... a nice savings if you aren't in a position to negotiate on your own and definately worth the $750.

lawnservice
03-08-2006, 04:58 PM
*sigh*

one last time let me try to explain

really not much different than going into a bank for financing.

you got to show them you know your business, got to show them you know your market, got to show them you know your compition, got to get them to understand you are a serious contender and they will work with you. You got to do some leg work(research) and have all your ducks in a row......................
(this is how i view lesco, get them to understand that even though you may only be a fairly new start up operation now, but you WILL be a major player in a few years. sooo help me out now and when i'm spending the huge $$$ you still have my business)



or, you could go to american express on-line, answer a few basic questions, pay them a fee to open a line of credit and complain about very high interest rates.
(this is how i view symbiot. ok, you may not see it this way right now. i understand that if i pay $750 to enjoy a savings of $1000 then i'm $250 ahead, cool. But what about your green industry brothers that are being screwed by symbiot, oh, but that doesnt affect you, or does it???)



know what, forget it. looks like i am alone on this (well my pal KLR is on my side)

hmmm, after rereading all the responses on this thread i realize i am not alone. looks like most are unhappy....yet contiune to defend this organization.
so be it
once again, good luck to all

i'm through with this subject

in the words of KLR...business is good, i do things my way YOU ARE ENTITLED TO DISAGREE

AltaLawnCare
03-08-2006, 05:20 PM
EVERYONE, involved needs to take a few mijnutes and write a "nice" letter to Symbiot..maybe Lesco too. Maybe they will see trhe market share they will lose and get the prices stable and keep them there.

I could fore go the end of year bonus just to get the pricing back on materials. Apps are only about 10% of my business, so I would never be able to get the price breaks.

I imagine Symbiot will lose some members over this if it goes south.
:hammerhead:

NattyLawn
03-08-2006, 05:26 PM
*sigh*

one last time let me try to explain

really not much different than going into a bank for financing.

you got to show them you know your business, got to show them you know your market, got to show them you know your compition, got to get them to understand you are a serious contender and they will work with you. You got to do some leg work(research) and have all your ducks in a row......................
(this is how i view lesco, get them to understand that even though you may only be a fairly new start up operation now, but you WILL be a major player in a few years. sooo help me out now and when i'm spending the huge $$$ you still have my business)



or, you could go to american express on-line, answer a few basic questions, pay them a fee to open a line of credit and complain about very high interest rates.
(this is how i view symbiot. ok, you may not see it this way right now. i understand that if i pay $750 to enjoy a savings of $1000 then i'm $250 ahead, cool. But what about your green industry brothers that are being screwed by symbiot, oh, but that doesnt affect you, or does it???)



know what, forget it. looks like i am alone on this (well my pal KLR is on my side)

hmmm, after rereading all the responses on this thread i realize i am not alone. looks like most are unhappy....yet contiune to defend this organization.
so be it
once again, good luck to all

i'm through with this subject

in the words of KLR...business is good, i do things my way YOU ARE ENTITLED TO DISAGREE

LS,

You have to be a member to complain;) Symbiot does seem to good to be true, but I really hope members do get their rebate checks...

PRGN1
03-08-2006, 05:37 PM
It would be interesting to see what members and non members of symbiot paid for product from lesco?There where early post on what symbiot members paid for 19-0-06 30% ppscu with dimension and for there momentun fx .Im not a symbiot member and my cost on those products where less. Symbiot likes to get a mix of sizes on the companies the allow to join from the same market areas.For the record myself ,consider by lesco to be buying at small to medium pricing. Myself I use a couple of fertilizers wholesale houses .It isnt always fun having to play the pricing game,but it is something you must do to keep everbody honest. My two cents

lawn king
03-08-2006, 05:50 PM
We received an e-mail from symbiot today informing us they were in negotiations with lesco for the 2006 contract. I spoke to lescos liaison to symbiot today, he informed me the 2006 contract is a done deal?

FINN
03-08-2006, 07:35 PM
I don't have a problem with people coming on here and expressing opinions about the current situation at hand. That being said, I would prefer to take my "cross pollination" with less arrogance. Ego's aside I do think some good points were made.

Moving forward.......

I have my first post card mailer going out any day now. 6000 pieces. New cards being made up with my logo. A website in the works. Redesigned my "Service Agreement". I intend to advertise in some local papers and what ever else it takes to grow my business. I bid on a driving range this week for a commercial customer. I got a nice refferal today. It wheeled out at 142/k . Wide open lot. I can just feel the wind blowing in my face as I race across on my Z........

New Green
03-08-2006, 09:13 PM
or, you could go to american express on-line, answer a few basic questions, pay them a fee to open a line of credit and complain about very high interest rates.
(this is how i view symbiot. ok, you may not see it this way right now. i understand that if i pay $750 to enjoy a savings of $1000 then i'm $250 ahead, cool. But what about your green industry brothers that are being screwed by symbiot, oh, but that doesnt affect you, or does it???)



know what, forget it. looks like i am alone on this (well my pal KLR is on my side)

hmmm, after rereading all the responses on this thread i realize i am not alone. looks like most are unhappy....yet contiune to defend this organization.
so be it
once again, good luck to all

i'm through with this subject

in the words of KLR...business is good, i do things my way YOU ARE ENTITLED TO DISAGREE[/QUOTE]

Lawnservice, this subject once again has been very sensitive to you. You consider this like a bank?? I consider symbiot as an investment with a great roi. I am sorry to hear about green brothers getting burnt. I have not. I am not going to drop Symbiot over someone elses relationship problems. You are right this is a business and whatever it takes to stay profitable. If you want me to drop Symbiot because others have been burnt, you are nuts. I gave you one example. My costs last year were down over 6K and the rebate check due is 3K. Sorry my pool needs heat and my kids need food. I am here for a profit. If I join that picket line, I will be out like GM and Ford Employees wondering what happened....And lets face it everyone complains about an organization and also defends it. Those labor brothers at Ford have been is a complaining for years, but it is a good paying job and they are happy. Welcome to America, those powerball winners are probably complaining about the 10 million +/- they paid in taxes.

DUSTYCEDAR
03-09-2006, 08:40 AM
i just hope lesco and symbiot can get the pricing back to what it was last year and all will be good
ls is a place for us all to vent on whatever topic we wish so the non members of symbiot can have an opinion but as a whole they company has helped me and i hope we can work this out or well be parting ways.

KLMlawn
03-09-2006, 02:33 PM
If I recall correctly, Symbiot offers a satisfaction garantee .... if you are not 100% satisfied with your membership, just call them and tell them you wish to cancel and they will refund your membership price in full.

lawnservice
03-09-2006, 04:36 PM
[/QUOTE]Lawnservice, this subject once again has been very sensitive to you. [/QUOTE]

yes, i am passionate about others getting hurt, or not getting what they were promised...and in a timely manner.

[/QUOTE]I am sorry to hear about green brothers getting burnt. I have not. I am not going to drop Symbiot over someone elses relationship problems. [/QUOTE]

is this your view on everything? i mean if your best friends beats on his wife daily but has never touch you...you still gonna be friends?

[/QUOTE]If you want me to drop Symbiot because others have been burnt, you are nuts. [/QUOTE]

dude, i dont care who is a member or who isnt, i just relayed some facts, thats all




not sure why the 'quotes showed up as it did, but i think it is still readable

JCG
03-09-2006, 05:12 PM
Lesco is alway slow. Last year it took till about April tell Lesco sent rebate checks. Lets make damn sure that symbiot doesn't bend over for Lesco and take first offer.

DUSTYCEDAR
03-11-2006, 03:36 PM
any more news on this?

turf hokie
03-11-2006, 07:13 PM
As of Friday, 3-10, the lesco service center here got an email that said they were still in negotiations. Maybe if we all call Jerry Browne at Lesco and whoever your rep is at Symbiot and let them know to get their act together it would help. I have spoken to Jerry in the past and he has always done what he said he would do and always been helpful.

I plan on calling him on Monday to see if progress has been made. If the NFL can strike a 6 year deal maybe these two companies can get their act together.

DUSTYCEDAR
03-13-2006, 10:41 PM
any word did u get to call the big guy

DUSTYCEDAR
03-17-2006, 08:37 AM
still havent heard anything

greenoasis
03-17-2006, 05:01 PM
Just got an email from Symbiot that said that Lesco and Symbiot were able to come to an agreement and have signed a multi-year deal. I'm glad that they were able to work it out.:clapping:

DUSTYCEDAR
03-17-2006, 05:13 PM
thats great i am glad to hear it

Tscape
03-17-2006, 05:52 PM
Nice for those invested in this to have been kept up in the air for so long. I am glad that I wasn't one of them. So what is a bag of 19-0-6 with Dimension running you folks through Symbiot? I'd like to compare.

FINN
03-17-2006, 06:20 PM
Turfscape

I think the first round is on the house this season.

Tscape
03-17-2006, 06:24 PM
Sweet! Sign me up!

MrBarefoot
03-17-2006, 07:42 PM
Nice for those invested in this to have been kept up in the air for so long. I am glad that I wasn't one of them. So what is a bag of 19-0-6 with Dimension running you folks through Symbiot? I'd like to compare.

I am in Symbiot and I'll get back to you when I find out.

I really want to use Barricade this year so I will have to go through a different supplier for spring products.

KLMlawn
03-17-2006, 07:52 PM
I really want to use Barricade this year so I will have to go through a different supplier for spring products.

Lesco has Barricade ... it is private labeled as Stonewall comes .20 and I think .46 in various analysis'.

Turfscape LLC - .10 $14/ .15 $16

Tscape
03-17-2006, 08:04 PM
Turfscape LLC - .10 $14/ .15 $16


That is nearly exactly what I am paying. Perhaps there are regional differences though. I have heard of guys from MA and NY paying crazy money. Also Lesco has its rewards for volume of purchases. Maybe MI guys are paying less than me.

DUSTYCEDAR
03-17-2006, 11:05 PM
its all good and off i go to make some dough
thanks symbiot

turf hokie
03-18-2006, 07:49 AM
Lesco has Barricade ... it is private labeled as Stonewall comes .20 and I think .46 in various analysis'.

Turfscape LLC - .10 $14/ .15 $16

Those prices are close to what I am paying here. But with the rebate and the terms that we are given you could be paying the same and I would still go with symbiot rather than be on me own.

I bought my early order, paid last years pricing, I get me rebate this year and don't have to pay for my dimension until the end of July.:waving:

TforTexas
03-18-2006, 10:14 AM
I am in Symbiot and I'll get back to you when I find out.

I really want to use Barricade this year so I will have to go through a different supplier for spring products.
Stonewall .43 on a 19-0-7 is around 22.00-25.00 a bag at Lesco without Symbiot

MrBarefoot
03-18-2006, 10:08 PM
Lesco has Barricade ... it is private labeled as Stonewall comes .20 and I think .46 in various analysis'.


The Lesco in my area has not committed to stocking Stonewall this season. If they don't then I will need to go to somone else.

And Turfscape 14.50 to 16 a bag for dimension + fert.

turf hokie
03-19-2006, 07:59 AM
The Lesco in my area has not committed to stocking Stonewall this season. If they don't then I will need to go to somone else.

And Turfscape 14.50 to 16 a bag for dimension + fert.

Make them bring into the store for you. They don't need to "stock" it to make it available to you.

FINN
03-19-2006, 08:40 PM
Did any of you interpret a change in the pricing schedule as a result of the recent agreement. I was under the impession we were not getting the best possible pricing that we had in the past. So we were on a "interim" pricing plan until an agreement was made.

Now that a renewal of the agreement has been made a pricing adjustment to reflect this will take place?

KLMlawn
03-19-2006, 08:50 PM
Did any of you interpret a change in the pricing schedule as a result of the recent agreement. I was under the impession we were not getting the best possible pricing that we had in the past. So we were on a "interim" pricing plan until an agreement was made.

Now that a renewal of the agreement has been made a pricing adjustment to reflect this will take place?

Yes, that is my understanding also.
According to the Email I got from Jared with his contact as well as Jerry Browns contact info, we should now be back pretty much where we were before and should be being given the lowest price no matter if it winds up being special "Symbiot" or "National Account" pricing, sale, or even discount clearance price, whatever is the best is what we get ... right along with the very best customer service Lesco can provide ..... so in other words ....
SERVICE ME ..... AND I SHOULDN'T PAY MUCH EITHER .....
They go on about percentage rebates, which I think all of us pretty much agree is not as important as bottom line point of sale pricing, not worring about getting a rebate after the fact, we want the best price NOW ....
We have paid to be included in a buying group that is supposed to, from the sound of it, being given the best of everything .... let see just how well we are treated, how good our pricing gets and how nicely the service center reps are to everyone ... if you have a problem ... call Jared or Jerry directly and tell them your problem and ask what they plan on doing to solve it ....

FINN
03-19-2006, 09:05 PM
I received the same email. I'm just not sure what exactly I can expect from it.

Custodians of corporate speak often lose touch with their audience.

DUSTYCEDAR
03-19-2006, 09:13 PM
well this week should show us how things r going to shake out