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View Full Version : Photos posted to show problems to win bids.


Tim Wright
03-07-2006, 09:04 PM
A few threads ago we were discussing bidding on lawn maintance and showing the customer problem areas that they may not have been aware of as a tool to win the bid.

We were also discussing the use of photos in this way, showing these areas, as well as the fix for the monthly report.

So I went out and took photos of the areas that I brought up to the pres of the home owners assoc, and I thought that I would share a few of them.

Here are examples.

I am not sure which ones are loading due to numbering rather than naming.

Some of the pix I took showed areas needing repared, others just cleaning.

Well, lets see what I upload here.

Tim

Tim Wright
03-07-2006, 09:10 PM
Here are a few more fix it photos.

I will be submitting an estimate w/photos to fix these issues.

Tim

nobagger
03-07-2006, 10:00 PM
All it looks like to me is the ground settled or eroded a bit and or they had some washout. Some stone beds need to be replenished from time to time also. Are these fresh pics (I didn't notice any dates) or are these after winter when all or most places look like sh!t?

Paradise Landscapes
03-07-2006, 10:08 PM
how would you fix them issues?

Tim Wright
03-07-2006, 10:49 PM
Yes they are fresh as in today photos.

Some need more rock. Some just need to be cleaned out.

There are a couple that have 6 inches on either side erroded away, and I would clean the edges up, put down new and wider geotextile and replentish the rock. I have not yet figured out how to keep the edges from doing the same thing in the future and would not do that work until I figure out what will prevent this.

Some areas need a new channel built because the water is cutting into the soil, and any fill will just wash out in one spring.

Any suggestions would also be helpful along these lines. I am working on the solutions for the next couple of days.

Tim

South Florida Lawns
03-07-2006, 11:13 PM
well if it were me I would dig out all the rock and lay down some medium diameter drainage pipe and an adequate amount of drains.

Then bring in fill and sod the whole place.

Making mowing faster for you and clean up the place too.

Cuz to be honest that natural drainage ditch looks kinda tacky right there.

Jpocket
03-08-2006, 08:26 AM
whats goin on in the pics in not the contractors fault, esp. if he is doing what he is getting paid for. And if the client/HOA is happy with them why would they give you the job b/c of your pics. Also those are winter pics, and as we know EVERYthing looks like Sh8t in the winter lol.

Just think about it the guy who does it is just doing what he was contrascted to do and nothing more, Maybe thats all they want

Tim Wright
03-08-2006, 08:52 AM
Its not an issue of the other contractors work. It is an errosion issue of which the maintenance people last year who only showed up twice the whole summer to work, did not inform the client of the present situations.

Of course the original contractor did his work correctly. I did not say to the client that the contractor did it wrong. Just that he has an issue that will get worse over time. Not better, not self correcting, but it is something that he will have to deal with, either sooner or later.

And yes they are winter pictures. The pictures have nothing to do with green grass. There is another issue that you did not mention, and that you obvisously were not aware of and that is there is a flock of geese taking the grass down to the ground. So the grass looks even worse than just being the fact that it is winter.

All I am saying here is; if there are issues you can use photos to show the client what you are talking about. If you are hired to fix them, and to maintain them, then you can show the client the same areas with the new photos.

Lets look at this another way. I live in WV, which is not the Wild and Wonderful state as it says on the license plates. It is the sue me state.

So, if you do the job, document it and protect yourself against some irronious litigation down the road. And don't think you won't get sued. In doing video production, ei, depositions, I have seen some of the most stupid stuff going to trial.

Tim

DixieFerris
03-08-2006, 09:14 AM
Tim I think you are going down the right path, looks like a good strategy to me. Just remember some people on here, and for that matter any contractor will just and throw guilt on your for this practice not because they are right, but because you are using a tactic that can potentially put you into one of their accounts. When people feel threatened, they fight and cry about it typically and that's what you man see ( I have too ). That's their hang up, not yours. If you are comfortable with it and start winning some jobs, your business will prosper.

LwnmwrMan22
03-08-2006, 09:41 AM
Its not an issue of the other contractors work. It is an errosion issue of which the maintenance people last year who only showed up twice the whole summer to work, did not inform the client of the present situations.

Of course the original contractor did his work correctly. I did not say to the client that the contractor did it wrong. Just that he has an issue that will get worse over time. Not better, not self correcting, but it is something that he will have to deal with, either sooner or later.

And yes they are winter pictures. The pictures have nothing to do with green grass. There is another issue that you did not mention, and that you obvisously were not aware of and that is there is a flock of geese taking the grass down to the ground. So the grass looks even worse than just being the fact that it is winter.

All I am saying here is; if there are issues you can use photos to show the client what you are talking about. If you are hired to fix them, and to maintain them, then you can show the client the same areas with the new photos.

Lets look at this another way. I live in WV, which is not the Wild and Wonderful state as it says on the license plates. It is the sue me state.

So, if you do the job, document it and protect yourself against some irronious litigation down the road. And don't think you won't get sued. In doing video production, ei, depositions, I have seen some of the most stupid stuff going to trial.

Tim

Do you live in this association??

Once this question is answered, I may or I may not have more questions.....

Jpocket
03-08-2006, 09:52 AM
Tim I think you are going down the right path, looks like a good strategy to me. Just remember some people on here, and for that matter any contractor will just and throw guilt on your for this practice not because they are right, but because you are using a tactic that can potentially put you into one of their accounts. When people feel threatened, they fight and cry about it typically and that's what you man see ( I have too ). That's their hang up, not yours. If you are comfortable with it and start winning some jobs, your business will prosper.

Why would a guy in PA be threatened by someone in VA.?
I said what I said b/c I personally would feel that way if I was doining it. Not saying it's wrong or whatever. In my experience most properties look the way they do for a reason, either the Owner/Management is cheap, or cost is not an option, and the result is a beautiful well designed lawn/landscape.

Every market is diferent, so do what works for you, I just stated my opinion, thats what lawnsite is for.

Tim Wright
03-08-2006, 10:30 AM
Do you live in this association??

Once this question is answered, I may or I may not have more questions.....


If you mean the house dev and assoc, I do not. I live a few miles from it.

The original job was brought to my attention when my brother in law saw an ad in the local paper stating that they were taking bids.

When I spoke to the pres for the first time, he had already recieved 7 or so bids. I have seen other LCO out there also. I would bet that he has at least 15 bids to go over.

I may not even get the jobs. He may take my information and hand it to someone else.

We will see in time.

Tim

LwnmwrMan22
03-08-2006, 10:56 AM
If you mean the house dev and assoc, I do not. I live a few miles from it.

The original job was brought to my attention when my brother in law saw an ad in the local paper stating that they were taking bids.

When I spoke to the pres for the first time, he had already recieved 7 or so bids. I have seen other LCO out there also. I would bet that he has at least 15 bids to go over.

I may not even get the jobs. He may take my information and hand it to someone else.

We will see in time.

Tim

Okay, so you're not driving slowly around neighborhoods looking for riffraff looking landscaping, then taking pictures of the property and mailing them to some HOA with your business card "call me".

You say the previous maintenance guy only showed up twice all last summer. The grass looks pretty decent for only having been mowed twice.

If that's what you were told, it'd throw up a red flag real quick, because that isn't the case.

I could understand they're unhappy with the current LCO and accepting bids, at which point, I'd do the same thing as you.

However, once you get your foot in the door, you'll want to take pictures of after the work, so you can show what it could eventually look like.

Tim Wright
03-08-2006, 11:11 AM
You could be right about the red flag. However, not showing up to do the job seems to be a pattern around here.

As for the grass not looking bad. I think the geese are doing a fine job keeping it down. They could almost go and get goats for the rest of the property and cut LCO's out completely.

Now, I do not know their policy for seasons. Perhaps they take new bids every year, and next year we go through it all over again. I have no idea.

As for driving through areas looking for shoddy work, I don't do it, and I don't have time to do it. I get work by word of mouth, and like this, seeing the ad in the paper.

I do thank you for the other thoughts, as it will help me have a balanced thought process when looking into more bidding opportunities.

Tim

LawnGuy73
03-08-2006, 05:51 PM
Im lost here....So your going to show them pictures of whats wrong around thier property and you think that that will win you the contract to maintain it? I've been showing people whats wrong with their properties for about 8 years, and I have'nt gotten all of them that I bid....I'm confused. :confused:

South Florida Lawns
03-08-2006, 06:54 PM
Yeah me too

At first I thought the same then I thought he was looking for suggestions about fixing the problem.

And from the pics its not that bad. only minor erosion .

Maybe he is trying to warn them that its getting bad and If they hire him he can catch what the other LCO is ignoring and in the long run save them money before topsoil is lost.

I would still push for drain pipes if it were me.

nobagger
03-08-2006, 07:43 PM
He lost us all.:confused: :confused: Maybe the previous provider had brought it to the attention of their pres. and he did nothing about it, (I know thats hard to believe right?) I see where your going with this but in my opinion you need to pick your battles wisely.

Piscitelli Landscape
03-08-2006, 08:38 PM
Listen, There Are Times Thru The Year We All Miss Stuff Or Push It Off Way To Long And It Should Be Taken Care Of. But To Go Around And Take Pics To Point Out The Problems And Win A Bid Just Seems Odd To Me. If The Guy Payin The Landscapers Isnt Happy With The Work He Will Get Rid Of Them And Call Someone Else. But I Got To Ask If You Are Putting This Much Work Into Getting This Bid Is It Really Worth It? Most Assoc. Like That Are Lookin For A Low Bid, And Average Work A Fem Actually Spend The Money The Should. I Mean More Power To You If You Get It I Just Cant Imagine That If Your In Business Long Enough You Wont Be Guilty Of The Samething. And What Happens When A Client That You Have No Problem With Gets A Letter In The Mail From Another Company And Pics Of What You Are Doing Wrong. But Hey I Am Not Payin Your Bills So More Power To You.

Tim Wright
03-08-2006, 09:38 PM
Goodness sakes boys.

It's not rocket science here.

Read the first post. I simply made the guy aware of what is happening.

Then I took pixs to help explain.

Since when have you met the president of a homeowners association that did not work 10 hours a day, run his kids around, yada yada, like the rest of us.

He was not aware of the issues for two reasons. 1) He does not walk around the development day in and day out looking for stuff, and two, he has not been told.

Now, perhaps this is a presumtious question, but how many of you have been in a corporate meeting, a how to sales seminar, church function, etc etc where visual aids have been used, and it maybe it worked and maybe it did not.

As of right now, the dude has not seen any pic. But I did take them. And it is a thought that I will use them in helping to explain the situation, perhaps win the bid, and if so, then document the results when I am done.

I just post a few pix as examples. You all do what you want and what works for you. No one here would expect any different. As for me, I am looking for new ways to do business. New to me that is.

If it does nothing for you, that is ok. If you just cannot process the thought that is ok too. You all throw ideas out there and I think that it is good. That is why I am addicted to this site :laugh:

I appologize if I have sent anyone to the emergancy room.

Shewwww, run for the frig everyone, back to the easy chair to take a load off.

LwnmwrMan22
03-08-2006, 10:36 PM
Goodness sakes boys.

It's not rocket science here.

Read the first post. I simply made the guy aware of what is happening.

Then I took pixs to help explain.

Since when have you met the president of a homeowners association that did not work 10 hours a day, run his kids around, yada yada, like the rest of us.

He was not aware of the issues for two reasons. 1) He does not walk around the development day in and day out looking for stuff, and two, he has not been told.

Now, perhaps this is a presumtious question, but how many of you have been in a corporate meeting, a how to sales seminar, church function, etc etc where visual aids have been used, and it maybe it worked and maybe it did not.

As of right now, the dude has not seen any pic. But I did take them. And it is a thought that I will use them in helping to explain the situation, perhaps win the bid, and if so, then document the results when I am done.

I just post a few pix as examples. You all do what you want and what works for you. No one here would expect any different. As for me, I am looking for new ways to do business. New to me that is.

If it does nothing for you, that is ok. If you just cannot process the thought that is ok too. You all throw ideas out there and I think that it is good. That is why I am addicted to this site :laugh:

I appologize if I have sent anyone to the emergancy room.

Shewwww, run for the frig everyone, back to the easy chair to take a load off.


The HOA's that I've dealt with, the presidents have always been the retired guys, that have time to walk around and nit pick everything, but don't want to pay anything, because it's their job to keep the budget down.

It's the only reason I stopped doing HOA's 4 years ago.

Paradise Landscapes
03-08-2006, 11:19 PM
The HOA's that I've dealt with, the presidents have always been the retired guys, that have time to walk around and nit pick everything, but don't want to pay anything, because it's their job to keep the budget down.

It's the only reason I stopped doing HOA's 4 years ago.

Can a Hoa really be that bad to work for?

LwnmwrMan22
03-09-2006, 08:55 AM
Can a Hoa really be that bad to work for?

All the ones in my area..... yes.

You have 10-80 different people that think they know how the grass should be cut, when the bushes need to be trimmed, where the snow should be stacked.

I know you just ignore them, tell the to take it to the board, but it's getting stopped every single time because someone figures they'd just "tell me quick" rather than take it to the board, because they've got "a thing" when the next meeting is.