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gammon landscaping
03-07-2006, 11:38 PM
ok i run the red fuel in my truck from time to time. i keep hearing people tell me it will cost you alot when the catch you ...

so my question here is has anyone here ever been cought running the red fuel???

and anyone else getting cought if you know about it first hand please.
no my girlfriends cusin's boss' yard guy got cought stuff please....

NEPSJay
03-07-2006, 11:51 PM
I run it in a coupleof trucks from time to time... no probs

DUSTYCEDAR
03-08-2006, 12:01 AM
here the dot will stop u and dip the tank

UNISCAPER
03-08-2006, 12:06 AM
This is an IRS issue. Typically what they will do is look at the milage of the truck, and assuming you bought it new, they will fine you for the milage on the odometer unless you can prove you just put it in. I know of a person who had his entire business siezed and trucks auctioned off to pay back the fines. If you can prove the time you got caught was a mistake, or, show the exact point when you added red dye fuel, you can use that in court.

olderthandirt
03-08-2006, 12:12 AM
Yes I seen it done at a cattle auction. The farmers are the ones that have a big need for off rd fuel and they all go to the auctions. Left early and seen 5-6 trucks with the boot on the front tire and the state guys were working there way around the parking lot dipping diesels as they found them. I assumed they were state but did'nt feel like sticking around to find out.

ksss
03-08-2006, 12:14 AM
Uniscaper is right. I have heard that being done. I never use red fuel. Its not worth the hassle. Like shitting your pants everytime you see a DOT check point. When I bought my Sde Dump trailer, A buddy and I went to Billings, MT to pick it up. My buddy just bought the T800. We hit the 4 corners DOT port in Bozeman. For the next three hours we got a good old MT DOT rectal exam which included dipping our fuel tanks. They were black. The previous owner had mixed moter oil in with the diesel. DOT was sure we were covering up the red fuel. So they sent it to a LAB to be tested. Have I mentioned before how I hate DOT!

emg35
03-08-2006, 12:16 AM
Got caught a few yrs ago, I don't actually use red dye. I have 2 5000 gal tanks 1 gas and 1 diesel. We actually record all the diesel as on road and off road and and pay accordingly. Anyway every few yrs I get audited and to make a long story short everything didn't add up on the off road side and bam $10,000 + what they considered as back taxes, interest etc. out the door.

Scag48
03-08-2006, 12:30 AM
A farmer I know got caught running off road in his flatbed semi running his fruit to the packing shed years back. Out here, the only real big chance of getting caught is in the fall during harvest as the State Patrol knows some of these farmers are cheap about running the correct fuel in their trucks. We are no where near a weigh station, that's how small the town is, but the State Patrol will pull a guy over and perform a random check. We have an offroad pump on the farm and if I absolutely need fuel in the Ford I'll throw some in, just enough to get me where I'm going though, I couldn't afford the fine. I guess my friend that got caught was stuck with a $10,000 fine.

Boycea
03-08-2006, 03:27 AM
In my area its not only the DOT stops you have to worry about. I was at the mulch yard last year and the DOT cop pulled in and stuck all the supply yard trucks, and all the customers of the yard. It seems that in the last year they have really been cracking down with DOT laws.

General Landscaping
03-08-2006, 12:40 PM
My family gets checked at the livestock market regularly.

coopers
03-08-2006, 05:21 PM
I personally wouldn't think it very wise to admit to running red dye in your truck on a public forum.

That's just my opinion.

Blake
WA

MIKE'S LAWN MAINTENANCE
03-08-2006, 05:46 PM
No Offense But You Know It Is Illegal To Run Off Road. So Why Chance It. To Me It Is Just Not Worth The Chance Of Paying A Hefty Fine Or Getting My Truck Hauled In.

grass_cuttin_fool
03-08-2006, 06:26 PM
I know a cable company here got caught about 3 years ago. It was a friday eve and the crew were on the way home and the truck ran out . The truck had an off road tank in the back to fill the ditch witch with. Well they pumped 10- 15 gallons in it and the DOT man pulled up as they were doing it. Long story short, the company got fined 10k and the driver lost his job for it.

wayne

Dirty Water
03-08-2006, 07:46 PM
I know a cable company here got caught about 3 years ago. It was a friday eve and the crew were on the way home and the truck ran out . The truck had an off road tank in the back to fill the ditch witch with. Well they pumped 10- 15 gallons in it and the DOT man pulled up as they were doing it. Long story short, the company got fined 10k and the driver lost his job for it.

wayne

I would have fired the driver for running the truck out of diesel even if he didn't put red diesel in it.

Diesel trucks should always be at 1/4 tank or higher.

sheshovel
03-08-2006, 08:16 PM
PleASE EXPLAIN "RED FUEL'?

Lazer_Z
03-08-2006, 08:24 PM
Please EXPLAIN "RED FUEL'?
She, It's Diesel fuel with a red dye used in off road machines like tractors and skid steers. I know it by the name "off road diesel" but others call it "red dye"

Hope this helps.

Rob

Mike33
03-08-2006, 08:24 PM
I would not do it. here in Md. in the rural mountains at that dot is a pain in the ass. I heard now they have something to put on your exaust and can check it with out pulling out of tank. I dont know just heard that. Okey you save 40 cents a gallon run 200 miles a day @ 16 MILE TO GALLON you save around $ 5.00 a day is it worth it? If my business is on the verge at $ 5.00 a day i would choose another job, i spend that much a day in snuff.

mike

Gravel Rat
03-08-2006, 11:37 PM
The truck drivers that I talk to that go across the boarder says the DOT in the states is bad. Supposidy they pack firearms and they are just itching to use it. The DOT is so bad in the US there are quite a few Canadian non east indian drivers want to even run south anymore.

The DOT in B.C. is more concerned about safety over nailing somebody for running marked fuel. It would be pretty hard to fine every excavation contractor in B.C. for running marked fuel. The court bills would out weigh the cost.

When we pay 3.70 Cnd or 3.19 US for 1 US gallon for regular diesel fuel we are already taxed the crap out of us. Say we buy 1000 CND gallons of diesel fuel unmarked it costs us 5130.00 dollars CND 4432.32 US.

The gov't makes tons of income tax off of the construction companies and with the economy running in high gear the tax money the gov't is collecting just from the construction market is in the high millions.

They are not rocking the boat the gov't controlls the DOT what ever the gov't says to the DOT they do it.

If its raining the DOT isn't out they won't do roadside checks in the rain if you drive a garbage truck or a honey wagon they won't go under it or near it :laugh:

The only bad thing to happen to your truck is if your steering box is leaking thats enough to condemn the truck and have it towed thats your biggest fear.

Oh ya we get pinched for ripped seats, dash lights that are not bright enough or mud flaps not the proper height avove the road surface. As for marked fuel they don't bother checking a dump truck they know it has marked fuel in it.

coopers
03-09-2006, 12:06 AM
"The truck drivers that I talk to that go across the boarder says the DOT in the states is bad. Supposidy they pack firearms and they are just itching to use it. "

They do in fact have side arms because they are not just with DOT, they are a special unit of the Washington State Patrol. All were troopers at one point and decided to go into the commercial vehicle enfrocement division, which is still a law enforcement position (and is true for just about every other State Patrol in the U.S.) Unfortunately we don't have enough CVE guys in the patrol to deal with the agressively driven scale skipping trucks out of our friendly country to the north:usflag: :canadaflag:

Blake
WA

Gravel Rat
03-09-2006, 12:42 AM
Even the DOT in California have fire arms where most of the truck drivers I talk to hauled produce.

One of the drivers said he just crossed the boarder the DOT man stopped him said to him did you forget something driver said no I don't think so. Well there is a fine for you for not dropping your lift axle. In B.C. lift axles are not used so its not a common practice even with our max gross is 140,000lbs.

I think its time for you guys to stand up to your laws. Fuel tax is supposed to pay for road repairs tell Bush you guys want the pot holes that swallow small cars fixed instead of putting fuel tax money into stupid things.

Fuel tax is a big cash grab and your gov't has put a big fear into you guys if you run marked fuel you will get in big trouble so your forced to buy road taxed fuel.

thepawnshop
03-09-2006, 12:50 AM
I like excavating. Digging in the dirt....when I am out on a machine, I don't have a care in the world. I also enjoy coming onto this message board picking everyones brains about machines, attachments and techniques. It is really nice. But I think this board, particularly the heavy equipment section, should be left to those things and leave the politics elsewhere.

Just a thought, though...but if I did want to voice an opinion on ANY countries politics and policies, I think I would reserve those opinions for a country that I ACTUALLY live in.

Dirty Water
03-09-2006, 01:02 AM
Your absolutely right Gravel Rat, the goverment is unjustly taxing us.

In fact, I think I'm going to run marked fuel, and stop paying sales tax too, I'll just refuse to pay it at the register....that will work right?

Probably stop filing income tax too....

P.S.

Sarcasm incase you missed it.

gammon landscaping
03-09-2006, 01:35 AM
i know that the dot checks big trucks i was refering to pickup trucks. my f-250 is unmarked ,no signs at all. but i do run a commecial tag, only because i got cought pulling my skid with a normal tag, got new tag went to court got it tossed out. it was a dot that pulled me over but he didn't test my fuel. i think it probablly still had some in it though. i have heard about it at the livestock auctions but i have never seen it done to a pickup anywhere else. and that was what i was asking if you have been tested in a pickup?

Gravel Rat
03-09-2006, 02:00 AM
Just think we pay pretty much a 14% tax on anything we buy say we buy a 100,000 dollar excavator there is 14,000 dollars of tax on top of that.

At one job I work at I make 20.60 per hour by the time income tax and other gov't deductions it reduces my wage per hour down roughly to 16.00 per hour.

When we buy fuel there is a road tax on it plus we pay another 14% on top of that.

So just think of the tax money you are getting charged for every gallon of fuel you buy when your driving over one of your local roads that is in need of repair that rattles every part of your truck. Or that part of the road that is so rough that it makes you spill your coffee in the morning.

We get P.Oed too that our roads are in bad shape and nothing is done about it. The fuel tax money goes towards the politicians pockets.

Gravel Rat
03-09-2006, 02:07 AM
What gets me is the fines you guys get for running marked fuel that is totally unnecessary. First offence is 200-500 dollar fine in B.C thats if you ever get your tanks dipped. You may get caught once but it would be pretty rare to get caught again.

To buy marked fuel now you need to have a paper trail and a record is kept on how many litres of marked fuel you buy.

cuttinjoe
03-09-2006, 08:25 AM
Ive only heard about it a few times but it was always third person accounts. In Ontario you can get a portion of the gas tax back if run a PTO or certain pumps on your truck. Dump trucks, fuel trucks, sander trucks and so on. Even a gas powered lawn mower is eligible. The way I understand it clear fuel is $0.14 more expensive then marked. I believe the tax credit is worth the difference. My uncle is a tax fuel consultant and thats the way he explained it to me. He also told me most accountants don't know this loop hole and thats why his company was formed. They do all the paperwork and take a percentage. I think he said they can go back 3 years. He handles a few LCOs from Toronto.

grass_cuttin_fool
03-09-2006, 09:06 AM
PleASE EXPLAIN "RED FUEL'?
It is a red dye that is put in off road diesel fuel, off road fuel doesnt have the road tax added in.

wayne

UNISCAPER
03-09-2006, 10:02 AM
Sheshovel:

What it equates to is this. You go to the pump, buy diesel. It's $2.75-$289 a gallon depending on where you go. Then you go to a refuleing station, designed for trucks and off road equipment. These folks will drive fuel to your job site a refuel every tractor you have, or refuel your off road tank at the job. They use a red dye in the fuel to designate that fuel in what it is. DOT checks you upon a stop and if they see red in the fuel they call the IRS in and you get shut down and fined. Why? Becuase the red dye fuel is on average .40 a gallon less money. Buy 2000 gallons of fuel a day and that adds up quick.

Qualey
03-09-2006, 12:25 PM
The IRS takes this much more seriously. 2 months ago an unmarked white govt. truck pulls into our yard and flashes a badge. Told us he is an IRS "fuel division" agent and was checking all tanks. He checked all CDL trucks and all pickups. Several guys around here have been bagged for dyed fuel in pickup to the tune of $10,000 per occurance (according to the agent).

UNISCAPER
03-09-2006, 09:23 PM
Now if you really want to hear unfair... The local rental yard has a pretty large array of stuff from skidsteers to hand tools, to dump, flatbed and water trucks. A renter brings back a water truck....Policy says they have to refuel before bringing it back or it's $5.00 a gallon. So, some idiot fuills it with red dye. He pulls in, drops the truck off, they check it out and while they are dipping the tank, in walks the IRS agent to check the fleet. It took some serious persuasion, but they talked him into letting them drain the tank and refuel with street fuel.

What a bite that could have been!

Gravel Rat
03-10-2006, 01:44 AM
That is TOTAL B.S. you guys are getting totally friggin ripped off the IRS must be on some kind of power trip. I guess they don't realize the taxes taken off your guys blue collar wages pays for their 100,000 dollar salaries.

If they show up on a jobsite have a big hole dug say to them you screw with me you will be at the bottom of the hole for a early burial.

UNISCAPER
03-10-2006, 11:02 AM
That is TOTAL B.S. you guys are getting totally friggin ripped off the IRS must be on some kind of power trip. I guess they don't realize the taxes taken off your guys blue collar wages pays for their 100,000 dollar salaries.

Gravel Rat:

We are soon approching a ratio of 50% of the American people are income producing, and 50% sit back and expect entitlements, like, Socialized Medicine, free government housing, food stamps, free surplus cheese bricks, and free eductation.

Then we have illegal aliens breaking into our country by the minute, taking free services like emergency rooms, driving with no licenses, and getting paid cash, which, does not contribute to the social seciurity fund. They plant anchor babies here, (by giving birth and being born here, you are automatically an American citizen) so they can get more free services. Then the slammer is college tuition. We pay taxes all along so our kids can go to California schools....Our kids, because they are white get to stand in line behind every illegal alien who gets put up for a state funded education.

If we could without being called prejudice get those other 50% up off their dead asses and go to work (God forbid that) the IRS could ease up a bit on fines and stupid stuff like red dye in fuel.

Gravel Rat
03-10-2006, 10:48 PM
We have thousands of dead beats in Canada too but the gov't doesn't pick on the people that are trying to make a living.

All you guys are trying to make a decent living then the IRS comes along to try squeeze more money out of you.

UNISCAPER
03-10-2006, 11:13 PM
Amen Gravel Rat. Amen.

coopers
03-13-2006, 01:42 AM
Well, that's how this country is and unfortunately we can ***** and moan about it all day, night, week and years until this world ends and nothings going to change.

Blake
WA

2109 Stang
04-22-2007, 02:20 PM
But I have first hand experience in 1994 company I used to work for fill my truck up with red fuel and I noticed because they left the truck next to the off road fuel tank and spilled some on the ground ,so I checked it out and it was full of that stuff ,right away I call my boss and told em that if I got caught it was going to be a fine in my name to my SS # so he told me not to worry that if that was the case he'll pay the fine ,would'nt you know it with my kind of luck passing by the DOT scales there was the IRS girl checking every body and BINGO ,that truck ha a 120 gal capacity tank so the fine was $1,200.00 ten dollars per gallon and she told me that if the tank was smaller than 100 gal ,like on a pick up truck or passenger car the minimum was $1,000.00 ,well with my luck my boss died about a month latter, his brother took over the company and I asked him to check on that ,so he did and for my luck the check was sent to the IRS a couple of days before he died , he was 41years old ,nine month to the day of his death his brother died too RIP Jeffrey and Peter Angelotti they were good friends .

1cooltreeguy
04-22-2007, 02:33 PM
My neighbor got busted the other day. $1,000 per truck plus a in office audit immediately. Total cost was $7,500 and would have been more if he did not make emergency call before he led 4 State cars down our lane. Oh & by the way - They were looking at his trucks but saw our trucks and decided to come dip our trucks. Thank God we were clean.

TriHonu
04-22-2007, 05:28 PM
I was at a Ritchie Brothers Heavy Equipment Auction just south of Minneapolis/St Paul Minnesota a couple years back. DOT pulled over every diesel truck to include pickup's checking fuel.

I guess they realized it was easier to have everyone come to them. I don't know how many they caught but they sure checked a bunch...

According to the MN Department of Revenue Petroleum Fact Sheet 200:

"The Minnesota penalty for misusing dyed diesel fuel in licensed motor vehicles is $1,000 or $10 per gallon, whichever is greater. This is consistent with federal law. Violators with repeat infractions will have their penalties multiplied by the number of violations. For example, if five violations have occurred, the fine is $5,000 or $50 per gallon. The dyed diesel fuel penalty is in addition to any other penalty assessed for nonpayment of taxes."

A neighbor ended up running out of fuel in his dump truck at a remote site. The foreman pumped about 10 gal of off-road into the tank to get him back to town. He drained the tank and refilled. Pulled a sample out of the tank and it was still red. Took him two days to flush the system, replace the fuel filters and flush the tank and there was still a tinge of red dye. He kept records. He tells me once you get the dye in your fuel system it is a lot of work to get it out.

I was a chemistry major in college and he joked "I guy could make a lot of money to develop something that you could add to the tank to disolve that red dye..."

YellowDogSVC
04-22-2007, 08:59 PM
ok i run the red fuel in my truck from time to time. i keep hearing people tell me it will cost you alot when the catch you ...

so my question here is has anyone here ever been cought running the red fuel???

and anyone else getting cought if you know about it first hand please.
no my girlfriends cusin's boss' yard guy got cought stuff please....

What does it broadcast about you and your company if you are willing to cheat like this? Once the DOT knows who you are from someone ratting you out or a spot check, you can bet they will check you often. If your competitors find out, you may get an unpleasant visit from DOT. I would suggest that unless it's an emergency, pay your taxable fuel and drive with less worry. I use taxable fuel for all my equipment. Just saves time and no worries about audits or dips and no reason for any to suspect anything more.

sdelorey494103
04-22-2007, 09:05 PM
what is red fuel? I dont get the concept of it

NateV
04-22-2007, 09:20 PM
what is red fuel? I dont get the concept of it

Red fuel is off-road fuel. When you buy it you dont have to pay the road tax on it.

YellowDogSVC
04-22-2007, 09:31 PM
what is red fuel? I dont get the concept of it


It's dyed diesel for off-road use only. If you order it, you generally sign a waiver testifying that you will not use it on-road.

Mike33
04-22-2007, 11:24 PM
I heard a guy got caught last week first offense 1000.00 fine next will be 10k. Like i said before you cant afford to be illegal.
MIke

YellowDogSVC
04-22-2007, 11:43 PM
I heard a guy got caught last week first offense 1000.00 fine next will be 10k. Like i said before you cant afford to be illegal.
MIke

Maybe I am just different but even if you think you can get away with it, it isn't the right thing to do. It creates an unfair business advantage. I believe that you have to pay Cesar.. if you cheat, it will catch up to you in one form or another. But that's just my thought.:usflag:

tallrick
04-23-2007, 12:07 AM
Good thing DOT is just commercial. My personal cars have run on everything from used fryer oil to wood! I am a "green" person after all. Those beaurocrats don't seem to care about the environment anyway. As for the off-road fuel, it is OK for the skid steers, dozers and the like isn't it?

YellowDogSVC
04-23-2007, 12:27 AM
that's my understanding on the dyed fuel for only off-highway. I imagine it will eventually be phased out. I know it is harder to get now than it was a few years ago because some of the rules changed (or so I heard but didn't look into it).

bobw
04-23-2007, 12:15 PM
Around here, there is very little checking of fuel left. I can remember when I was young, you'd see "Purple Petes" (they dye the fuel purple here) checking tanks all the time. They've raised taxes enough now that it is of no advantage for people to run farm fuel.

Scag48
04-23-2007, 02:53 PM
Off road fuel is typically higher in sulfur, which burns great in equipment. I refuse to use anything else in our iron, I think the new low sulfur stuff is junk. We have a Pacific Pride in town that can only be used if you have an account, they have an off-road pump which is super handy. I could fill the truck and the transfer tank at the same time.

tallrick
04-23-2007, 04:00 PM
Off road fuel is typically higher in sulfur, which burns great in equipment. I refuse to use anything else in our iron, I think the new low sulfur stuff is junk. We have a Pacific Pride in town that can only be used if you have an account, they have an off-road pump which is super handy. I could fill the truck and the transfer tank at the same time.

Funny, a friend reminded me about a crazy farmer who used to "wash" the dye out of heating oil to run his Diesel Cadillac and truck. He used some kind of acid and fertilizer mix to cause the yellowish dye to settle out, leaving clean fuel. This was back in the 70's, so I guess there are people determined to get around it. I was stopped myself by the highway patrol for my wood-powered pickup putting out smoke, but there was no ticket written. Some of this stuff is very confusing.

YellowDogSVC
04-23-2007, 07:40 PM
Funny, a friend reminded me about a crazy farmer who used to "wash" the dye out of heating oil to run his Diesel Cadillac and truck. He used some kind of acid and fertilizer mix to cause the yellowish dye to settle out, leaving clean fuel. This was back in the 70's, so I guess there are people determined to get around it. I was stopped myself by the highway patrol for my wood-powered pickup putting out smoke, but there was no ticket written. Some of this stuff is very confusing.

might has well set up a moonshine operation. That a lot of work just to save a few pennies

RockSet N' Grade
04-23-2007, 10:49 PM
Tallrick.......I have got this mental picture of a pick-up running on wood......a guy in the back bed throwing logs into the boiler in the front, train whistles, engineer hats....how's that thing work? any pictures?

YellowDogSVC
04-23-2007, 11:26 PM
Tallrick.......I have got this mental picture of a pick-up running on wood......a guy in the back bed throwing logs into the boiler in the front, train whistles, engineer hats....how's that thing work? any pictures?

steam engines can be reliable! Lots of cedar logs to fuel the fire here. I bet al Gore wouldn't like it though. All those carbon emissions from burning wood.

SinjonAssociates
04-24-2007, 11:59 AM
They mentioned the other day that AG's average electric bill per month is over a grand, even with florecent bulbs throughout the house. Sorry for the deviation from said topic I just hate hypocrites.

tallrick
04-26-2007, 01:22 AM
Tallrick.......I have got this mental picture of a pick-up running on wood......a guy in the back bed throwing logs into the boiler in the front, train whistles, engineer hats....how's that thing work? any pictures?

Well I blew out the barrel, but here's a website with the same system:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/ yahoo group
http://members.tripod.com/~highforest/woodgas/woodfired.html


Very old technology but it works. I just got some more drums so when I put it all back together I will take some pics. Dad's fryer powered car is a lot easier to run though!

Roadwarrior
05-06-2007, 10:28 AM
The IRS takes this much more seriously. 2 months ago an unmarked white govt. truck pulls into our yard and flashes a badge. Told us he is an IRS "fuel division" agent and was checking all tanks. He checked all CDL trucks and all pickups. Several guys around here have been bagged for dyed fuel in pickup to the tune of $10,000 per occurance (according to the agent).


Same thing happened to me. But I wasn't there and they wouldn't do it without my permission ???

zz4guy
05-11-2007, 10:02 AM
Same thing happened to me. But I wasn't there and they wouldn't do it without my permission ???

That is TRUE! Being out on the road is free game but NOBODY has a right to be on YOUR property without the proper warrant. Tell him to hit the road and make an appointment next time. If he baulks at it call the cops. The bigger hassle you create for them the less they'll bother you. It will just get worse if nobody stands up to them.

MarcSmith
05-11-2007, 10:30 AM
The bigger hassle you create for them the less they'll bother you.

Yeah Right....

I welcome inspections....I have nothing to hide....

I figure those who do the inspections can give you a prostate exam with one finger, or both hands....You start hassling them they go from fingers to hands mighty quick.

Kinda like when you get pulled over for speeding and start hassling the cop, the next thing you know, time to pile on the tix.

zz4guy
05-11-2007, 10:34 AM
I have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to hide either thankyou but I am taking this stand as a matter of principle. I think it's a shame when people rip off the public by stealing gas but its also a shame when we let our own goverment walk all over us.

Supposed to be a government of the people by the people FOR the people. WTF?!

If the IRS man is going to be a prick and come in unannounced them I am going to show him the same curtesy.

MarcSmith
05-11-2007, 11:39 AM
So when the police work radar for speeder, should they put up a sign 2 miles down the road "radar ahead slow down"

If the IRS man calls and says, "Hey, I'm coming buy in two weeks to do an audit." WTF good is that. I could burn out all the red fuel and clean the place up and put on a dog an pony show for the guy. and when he leaves go back to the way i was doing business....No different than a DOT guy pulling a truck over for a random spot check...

The irs folks are citizens doing their job hired by citizens we elected to make sure that ALL the citizens are doing their part and paying their share.

If the guy came buy and and I was up to my eyeballs in other stuff, Id ask to see if he could come back in a day or two just so I could get all the files pulled for him such that the visit would be pleasant and easy, Id ask, but no reason for me to hassle the man.

So if the IRS come sin does and unannounced check they are pricks, are police who work radar or DUI check points with out warning Pricks, are DOT guys who do spot checks on Random trucks Pricks, How about the department of health when they do an unnanounced inspection's on a restaurant are they Pricks, or the USDA when they pull random drug samples to test or the homeland security when they decide to check a cargo container... I guess all these folks are pricks, or are they only pricks when its an inconvenience for you?

I never said you did any wrong I did not mean to insinuate that you did for that I apologize.

zz4guy
05-11-2007, 12:42 PM
I understand where you are coming from. They are just out to do their jobs. But some are blatent ass wipes, at least the ones I've dealt with.

If the IRS guy is friendly, accomodating, considerate, I will be too.

If he is arrogant, demanding and threatening, I will be too.

It's all about attitude. Some of them have a HUGE chip on their shoulders just because they think they have all this power.

MarcSmith
05-11-2007, 02:38 PM
If he is arrogant, demanding and threatening, I will be too.


IMO always better to take the high road...and get names. everyone has a supervisor, and I have no fear of writing letters to supervisors explaining how nice or how "prickish" their employee's are....:)

it seems no matter how "electronic" we become. a typed letter hand signed and send through the mail always gets attention...Especially when it's sent return receipt.

onahill
05-11-2007, 03:12 PM
So when the police work radar for speeder, should they put up a sign 2 miles down the road "radar ahead slow down"

If the IRS man calls and says, "Hey, I'm coming buy in two weeks to do an audit." WTF good is that. I could burn out all the red fuel and clean the place up and put on a dog an pony show for the guy. and when he leaves go back to the way i was doing business....No different than a DOT guy pulling a truck over for a random spot check...

The irs folks are citizens doing their job hired by citizens we elected to make sure that ALL the citizens are doing their part and paying their share.

If the guy came buy and and I was up to my eyeballs in other stuff, Id ask to see if he could come back in a day or two just so I could get all the files pulled for him such that the visit would be pleasant and easy, Id ask, but no reason for me to hassle the man.

So if the IRS come sin does and unannounced check they are pricks, are police who work radar or DUI check points with out warning Pricks, are DOT guys who do spot checks on Random trucks Pricks, How about the department of health when they do an unnanounced inspection's on a restaurant are they Pricks, or the USDA when they pull random drug samples to test or the homeland security when they decide to check a cargo container... I guess all these folks are pricks, or are they only pricks when its an inconvenience for you?

I never said you did any wrong I did not mean to insinuate that you did for that I apologize.

MarcSmith,

There is a BIG I mean Big difference between PUBLIC & PRIVATE property.
You have heard about a little thing called the CONSTITUTION?

It protects you from unreasonable SEARCH and SEIZURE.
If the search is reasonable they will have no problem getting a judge to sign the SEARCH WARRANT.

How would you know they got a warrant?
You would't.
The search would still be a surprise.

When you are driving your car/truck you have signed away Certain rights as in DWI/drug testing.
The rest takes place on PUBLIC streets so why would the police need to warn motorist that they are monitoring vehicles speed using radar?
What rights are violated?

MarcSmith
05-11-2007, 03:33 PM
MarcSmith,

There is a BIG I mean Big difference between PUBLIC & PRIVATE property.


But when one operates a commercial business you do sign some of your rights away and you become not quite public, but not as private you may think...

You think McDonalds can tell an Health inspector to pack sand at the door and turn him away....Nope

You think the guys at a gas station can tell the bureau of weights and measures not to look at their pumps? Nope

Think Trugreen bad lawn can tell the Dept of Pesticides when they can come buy for an inspection? Nope

I'm not saying that we rollover on our back like a girl on prom night when someone flashes a badge. However we pay them to enforce the rules and regs. If I walk out of the shop and see someone dipping tanks...I'll be pissed and upset and most likely politely show them the door. However if that same person came to office Introduced himself and explained why he was here, Id have no problems showing him around. It's all about the 'tude.....

zz4guy
05-11-2007, 03:37 PM
Remeber what the thread is talking about...red fuel... not meat inspection... Legally you can put whatever fuel you damn well please in it as long as it sits on your private property.

MarcSmith
05-11-2007, 04:14 PM
Fuel, Meat, Pesticides, Osha, DOT it doesn't matter who or what, its about people coming and inspecting a commercial business...

Legally you can put whatever fuel you damn well please in it as long as it sits on your private property.

If you say so, I don't know. I looked, but I could not find an answer.

But if you put off road fuel in a registered tagged and insured vehicle, aren't you really tempting fate....How could you prove to the powers that be, that particular vehicle, even though its currently tagged, registered, and insured, has never been off your property?

Yes we are innocent until proven guilty...but once you put off road fuel into a registered vehicle, you're not innocent anymore....unless you have some really good records to show otherwise.

Again, it boils down to this....is it worth the pennies per gallon savings to take that chance? I would imagine, if you get caught with off-road fuel in an on-road vehicle once, your company would be "highlighted" and might get more attention in the future. Not something that anyone wants....

maxkicker
09-24-2007, 01:44 AM
Fuel, Meat, Pesticides, Osha, DOT it doesn't matter who or what, its about people coming and inspecting a commercial business...



If you say so, I don't know. I looked, but I could not find an answer.

But if you put off road fuel in a registered tagged and insured vehicle, aren't you really tempting fate....How could you prove to the powers that be, that particular vehicle, even though its currently tagged, registered, and insured, has never been off your property?


that would be logical however i was accused of running a auto repar shop in a ress zone and was told by anne arundle county i wasnt allowed to have untagged vehicles on my property

then when we went to court they had pictures of me working on MY blazer when i first got it home trying to get it through inspection
i explained to the judge that maryland didnt allow you to tag a vehicle that hasnt passed md state inspection

then the bastard told me to get temp tags next time and pay the fine

and they wonder why people go insane and blow stuff up

perkhound
09-26-2007, 12:41 AM
Originally Posted by zz4guy
Legally you can put whatever fuel you damn well please in it as long as it sits on your private property
That is not true in NC My cousin had his truck sitting in the yard with transmission out being rebuilt. The state man pulled up tested it and gave him a ticket for $1000.00 Then he said you carry it to court but you will not win. They can pick up very minute amounts of the red. So I would not use red for any road vehicle.

zz4guy
09-26-2007, 03:07 AM
Originally Posted by zz4guy
Legally you can put whatever fuel you damn well please in it as long as it sits on your private property
That is not true in NC My cousin had his truck sitting in the yard with transmission out being rebuilt. The state man pulled up tested it and gave him a ticket for $1000.00 Then he said you carry it to court but you will not win. They can pick up very minute amounts of the red. So I would not use red for any road vehicle.

I can see that, but your cousin's first mistake was letting him on his property. He should sue his ass for trespassing.

Only allowed to come onto my property if I give you permission (set up an appointment) or you are a cop with probably cause.

Scag48
09-26-2007, 03:47 AM
I can see that, but your cousin's first mistake was letting him on his property. He should sue his ass for trespassing.

Only allowed to come onto my property if I give you permission (set up an appointment) or you are a cop with probably cause.

Agreed. Unless they have probable cause and/or a search warrant, they shouldn't be able to touch you. I wouldn't go as far as trying to get into a legal dispute with the officer and the department he's with, but making a swift "get the hell out of here" action toward the officer would be the first thing I'd do.

perkhound
09-26-2007, 08:29 AM
Maybe where you live but not here. DOT has a lot of power here. They pretty much can pull you anywhere or go anywhere they like.

MarcSmith
09-26-2007, 08:47 AM
I'm pretty sure when you got your DoT numbers and such you signed on the dotted line giving them permission to inspect your vehicles any place and anywhere at any time. Kind of like when you sign your driver lic, it allows the police to perform sobriety checks on you and if you refuse its an automatic suspension.

You also have to remember that Driving and CDL's and DOT numbers are not a right guaranteed by the constitution, but rather a privilege granted by the states and the feds. So you have to play by their rules.

zz4guy
09-26-2007, 04:44 PM
I'm pretty sure when you got your DoT numbers and such you signed on the dotted line giving them permission to inspect your vehicles any place and anywhere at any time. Kind of like when you sign your driver lic, it allows the police to perform sobriety checks on you and if you refuse its an automatic suspension.

You also have to remember that Driving and CDL's and DOT numbers are not a right guaranteed by the constitution, but rather a privilege granted by the states and the feds. So you have to play by their rules.

Yes, but that still doesn't give them permission to trespass to check it. Remeber the Illegal Search & Seizures clause?

They can pull you over or check your rig in a parking lot, but not on your own private property.

I would seriously call the police if he came onto my property for anything other than to set up an appointment.

I'm not on the side of the law breakers, but if we don't stand up for our rights then we won't have any one day. These people need to be put in their place.

OH yeah why wouldn't you sue for trespassing for a $1k fine? You might come out even if you can knock the fine off and then pay for lawer fees. $1k would go a ways towards legal fees.

MarcSmith
09-26-2007, 04:55 PM
Yes, but that still doesn't give them permission to trespass to check it. Remeber the Illegal Search & Seizures clause?

All I'm saying is that Its possible when you apply for DOT numbers you give them permission to enter your property to check your trucks...by agreeing to all the fine print. in which case Illegal search and sezuire would not apply since you have already given them permission to check your trucks any were any place, any time...

Also have to remember, when you are in a parkings lot...you are still on private property......Also, you personally have rights, which are far different than those rights of a commercial entity, which by applying for DOT numbers you became part of...

tnmtn
09-26-2007, 08:14 PM
after katrina it was ok'ed to run red diesel in trucks on the highway due to the temporary shortage of diesel in the region. wouldn't that make your truck always test that you were running it. .

RockSet N' Grade
09-26-2007, 08:53 PM
Tnmtn.....I believe the simple answer to your question is yes BUT, I am sure there are legal provisions covering a natural disaster and truck from that region.
All and all, rules are rules, I didn't make them up......don't like alot of them, but they are what they are.........Around here the IRS ( fuel checkers) are randomly pulling over trucks and testing........they are getting pretty serious around here about that and the checking activity has stepped up so much, it has become a hot topic on the cb and telephone walkie-talkie. Wonder why Uncle Sam is revenue hungry?

tnmtn
09-26-2007, 09:12 PM
i was in the area after katrina and didn't use dyed diesel. however there are a few folks that feel they have a built in excuse now.

zz4guy
09-26-2007, 09:36 PM
Tnmtn.....I believe the simple answer to your question is yes BUT, I am sure there are legal provisions covering a natural disaster and truck from that region.
All and all, rules are rules, I didn't make them up......don't like alot of them, but they are what they are.........Around here the IRS ( fuel checkers) are randomly pulling over trucks and testing........they are getting pretty serious around here about that and the checking activity has stepped up so much, it has become a hot topic on the cb and telephone walkie-talkie. Wonder why Uncle Sam is revenue hungry?

They're probably hungry because they know there are a lot of thiefs out there doing it!

It surprises me that there are so many guys out there cheating like this.

SiteSolutions
09-27-2007, 01:13 AM
I even put highway diesel in my transfer tank, just in case I get low on fuel too far from home and too short of cash. Y'all can call me names if you want but that's how I like it, so that's how I do it. Best part of running your own show is doing things the way you want to.

MarcSmith
09-27-2007, 07:43 AM
It surprises me that there are so many guys out there cheating like this.

And when the roads don't fixed or upgraded, the cheaters, who aren't paying thier share of the taxes are the first to complain....

Kepple Services
09-29-2007, 07:15 PM
There was no shortage of diesel after Katrina that I saw... Plenty, I never went to a single station that didnt have any. I think thats just a cop-out for trying to run it.

BrandonV
09-29-2007, 10:31 PM
my irrigation service truck got checked 3 months ago while pulling out of a housing development so I guess they're checking landscapers too... its just a f350