PDA

View Full Version : Was forced to buy another Excavator and dump truck this week


UNISCAPER
03-07-2006, 10:47 PM
Can I use my S-10 with 4 cylinder to pull this?

Scag48
03-07-2006, 11:21 PM
How you going to get that in those backyards?!:eek: :confused: :weightlifter: :D

UNISCAPER
03-07-2006, 11:28 PM
We use it on site work before the tracts are built. That slope you see is 23' below the apartment buildings, which as you can see are two story. Bascially, from the top of the knuckle to the bottom of the track, in full rase, the machine measures 53'. The bucket is 18 yards. You gotta love joystick controls.

Scag48
03-07-2006, 11:33 PM
So wait, are you renting this thing or did you actually buy it?

sheshovel
03-07-2006, 11:36 PM
He probably bought it.
How in the hell do they think they are going to hold that cut back there?
Tearing up Encinitas now!

Splicer
03-07-2006, 11:44 PM
:cool2: TONKA toys!:laugh:

UNISCAPER
03-08-2006, 12:29 AM
We bought it. 2100' long wall, ranging in hieght 31'-43'. We have to move 1.3 million yards of earth in the process. When we are done, it's going to auction. More money left over doing that way vs rent/lease.

Scag48
03-08-2006, 12:41 AM
You're my hero, Bill. I thought you were a landscaper? :rolleyes: How long will it take you to finish the job? So you figured your cost of ownership would be cheaper than subbing the job out?

Gravel Rat
03-08-2006, 01:16 AM
I sure hate to buy that machine and haul truck. Most of the contractors here will run 45-50 ton excavators and use articulated dump trucks (30 ton).

Two 45 ton excavators and 2 articuated trucks can move alot of earth. The articulated trucks are not so sensitive to the roads they have to haul on. The big haul trucks need a decent road same with that excavator it would flop over pretty easy if it got on uneasy ground. Bigger the machine harder they fall and harder to get back on its tracks :laugh:

Couple contractors from this area had a job to strip around 10 acres of land basically take 10 feet of the over burden off to expose the good gravel to be mined. It took 2 excavators 1 20 ton and 1 30 ton a month to do the job coupled with couple articulated trucks.

The other problem now if that haul truck gets a flat tire its going to be out of commission for atleast a year which is the waiting list for big tires. Right now gravel mines have loaders sitting on blocks because they can't get tires for the 980s and 988s the 992s are even worse. Haul truck tires are almost impossible to get.

You can thank China for that they bought up half the worlds supply of tires companies like Michelin are so back logged they can't keep up with the demand.

Scag48
03-08-2006, 01:33 AM
Those tires look to be in good condition and could last another 1,000 hours or so, much longer than Uniscaper needs them for. I think this machine and truck combo was the best move. 2 45 ton excavators would have cost the same amount as this big excavator, you have twice the machines to work on, although maintenance costs would be cheaper, and articulated trucks wouldn't even get close to the productivity of that rigid frame haul truck.

Gravel Rat
03-08-2006, 02:09 AM
Articulated trucks are fast they work better on rough ground as they are 6 wheel drive and go through anything you can have mud up to the axles and they still go through it.

The smaller excavators move faster thats the reason why they are used they are also easier to move. That big Cat you have to completely strip it to bare bones. Also a machine like that brand new is 1.5 million dollars or so.

A machine like that will also burn double the fuel two 45 ton machines will there is no doubt that machine sucks back 500 gallons of diesel fuel like nothing.

If you had two 345 Cats and 2 or 3 740 Articulated trucks that haul 42 tons each and do 33mph you could move couple thousand ton with no problems.

It doesn't take much to ruin a haul truck tire even if its new one sharp rock and the sidewall is gone. You have to be really carefull blowing or ruining a tire is disasterous with the tire shortage.

There are companies buying bald tires just to put on their machines to keep working.

Scag48
03-08-2006, 02:24 AM
Those artics don't go 33MPH loaded or even unloaded for that matter unless they are on paved surfaces. You start going that fast and you wear out brakes, transmission, tires, and eventually the frame and integrity of the entire vehicle.

I don't see how you could put a rock through that tire, the sidwall is so thick. You have to remember, he's working in California, it's pretty sandy down there. Just look at the soil in the pics.

I agree, fuel consumption is huge, but an 18 cubic yard bucket is about 3 times more productive than 2 45 ton machines running 3 yard buckets. It flat gets it done.

Transportation isn't an issue for Uniscaper, this one job is all it needs to do and he's auctioning it off. I still say the cost of 2 45 ton machines would still be around the same cost for this monster, average cost is upwards of $300,000 for any decent used 45 ton machine.

Squizzy246B
03-08-2006, 02:27 AM
No doubt if was a Hitachi excavator it would be fine:jester: :jester: :jester:

Bill I have chartered a ship full of blocks, we'll be there in about three weeks...which end do we start at??:rolleyes: :cool2:

Gravel Rat
03-08-2006, 02:57 AM
The haul trucks are worse they need a grader grading the road on a regular basis to make sure the haul road is smooth enough for the trucks to travel on.

As for those tires they are not that tough why do you think they need the roads smooth. If the tires are too thick they build heat and disinegrate. When you got that kind of weight a sharp rock doesn't give a tire does a rock bettween the duals will ruin a tire fast. Once one tire blows the other one gets overloaded and it blows.

Skag have you worked with articulated trucks have you ever been in gravel mines ?

The Volvo's the forestry guys use see some severe conditions and grades steep enough they need a D-8 to help them up.

The Articulated trucks run Jake brakes or some kind of engine ******er so your not using the brakes that much.

Do you notice that big Cat is sitting on a flat bench there is no way you could put that machine safely on a slope you could put a normal excavator.

So what happens to those aparment blocks when another major earth quake happens I don't know how they can build those on a mountain side ?

Most of that wood to build those places is probably from B.C. and the concrete materials is from B.C. .

Scag48
03-08-2006, 03:21 AM
No, I guess I haven't worked in a mine, but everything I mentioned was common sense. I think that's what going to take me a long ways in this business.

Actually, those artics use a transmission "******er" and using it too much is hard on the tranny. And using the brakes too much is hard on the brakes. It's a balance of both that keeps the operation running smoothly. I can tell you one thing, those trucks loaded do not exceed 15-20 MPH loaded. If they do, it takes too much to slow them down and eventually costs a ton of money to fix. I sat and watched an operation that was working on a subdivision here in town for about 2 hours one day. They were running 5 Volvo A40's and a Zaxis 650 loading them up. Those trucks got that hell beat out of them even on a somewhat clean haul road, I'd say they didn't get much over 25 MPH empty, it's just too hard on the truck.

Squizzy246B
03-08-2006, 05:07 AM
Can I use my S-10 with 4 cylinder to pull this?

No Bill, you'll need something heavy duty like my old Ford!:rolleyes:

mrusk
03-08-2006, 08:59 AM
Man. I think i'll close up job and just go work for BILL!!!

I can not imagine how much time you must spend on estimates for the job as big as you do!

UNISCAPER
03-08-2006, 09:24 AM
"Most of the contractors here"
"Couple contractors from this area"


Showing your intelligence again Gravel Rat???? Where you are ain't here. This area refers to yor area, and that as well ain't here. We don't have socialized medicine, nor do we say "Eah" nor do we have a bunch of toothless kids running around with hockey sticks and bloody noses. This is here. This is what works HERE. What works THERE is not necessarily what works HERE. Tires, are niether HERE, nor THERE. We get them with a phone call in 4 hours. Why, because THIS IS HERE NOT THERE. Get it, HERE.....HERE, you are THERE..... :):):):):)

The cool thing is after we are done I have a deposit from the next owner who will need it right about the time we complete the project. BTW, this project has a 13 month calander.

DUSTYCEDAR
03-08-2006, 09:35 AM
get more pics love the big iron

Lazer_Z
03-08-2006, 09:39 AM
get more pics love the big iron
I'll second this.

Rob

UNISCAPER
03-08-2006, 09:46 AM
"Do you notice that big Cat is sitting on a flat bench there is no way you could put that machine safely on a slope you could put a normal excavator."


Hmmmmmnnnnn.....Had it ever occured....THAT MAYBE IT'S NOT GOING TO BE USED ON SLOPES?????????

"So what happens to those aparment blocks when another major earth quake happens I don't know how they can build those on a mountain side ?"

Ever heard the term COHESION????? It will be very hard to level with a earthquake unless the fault line is dead under the cut. Now, rain and wash, I worry about quite a bit. Thats why we are building a wall and brow ditch.

Squizzy246B
03-08-2006, 09:47 AM
Tires, are niether HERE, nor THERE. We get them with a phone call

Bill, thats it, I've had a gutsfull...I'm calling my attorney..thats twice you've made me spill coffee on my computer...the dam thing has turned 43 beans brown!:rolleyes: :laugh: :laugh:

Squizzy246B
03-08-2006, 09:58 AM
So whats the wall?

Scag48
03-08-2006, 10:50 AM
I was curious about the wall as well. The earthmoving is the easy part, how do you plan to go about doing the wall?

Dirty Water
03-08-2006, 06:53 PM
You guys sure Bill isn't pulling your leg? The more I stare at that picture, the more something looks strange to me about it.

EDIT: Just to help put that picture to scale, here is a cat 5130 with a frontshovel on it instead of a regular boom:

http://www.stripmine.org/images/other_08.jpg

iluvscag
03-08-2006, 07:00 PM
I may be a farmer and not have that much info on somthing like thins but that is a little overkill? Are you pulling our legs I mean come on. How are you going to move it I dont know about this.

mrusk
03-08-2006, 07:44 PM
I think he bought it. One be one hell of a payment. The thing proably ran 6-700k. Then another few hundred k for the big dump truck!

UNISCAPER
03-08-2006, 10:41 PM
Answers. The wall. Keystone Standard units below grade with Century wall above grade. 27' of Strata Grid 550 from the pins back. The 5130 I can assure you use an excavator style machine, not a front shovel, even though we have a stick for that if we need it. Cost wise, it was a little more than said, once again, look at the icture. It's already sold when our job is over for what I paid. The truck, I might just keep it for when we add a 345 after the 5130 is sold off. Logistics of the wall. We have 2 966H's comming and a TH580. If we don't get another wall this size when we are dopne, it all get sold off and that is the profit from the job, just like the old days.

mrusk
03-08-2006, 11:17 PM
How do you know you'll be able to sell it for what you paid for it when the job is done?

Gravel Rat
03-08-2006, 11:20 PM
I guess you haven't tried getting tires for heavy equipment they are in such a demand people that have them have to keep them in a fenced compound with barbed wire on top of the fence and security guards.

Lafarge Construction materials has the most pull in the mining market and they can't beat China for them. The one mine of theirs had two haul truck tires recaped at 26,000 dollars each.

The wall is being built with hand stacked blocks :eek:

How many skids of block is that going to take ?

It will look nice after the job is done but is it worth the big price tag I imagine the project price is in the million plus mark.

UNISCAPER
03-08-2006, 11:31 PM
"How do you know you'll be able to sell it for what you paid for it when the job is done?"

I already have a contract signed and a downpayment. All I have to do is make it available when the new owner has to have it.

I told you what the calander was for the project in an earlier post Gravel Rat. As far as tires goes, anything I need is 4 hours away. This is America where we have done so much with so little for so long that we can do anything with nothing.

sheshovel
03-08-2006, 11:34 PM
You can take Uniscaper at his word..he knows what he is talking about and knows what he is doing.

Mr. Vern
03-09-2006, 01:46 AM
what an interesting post. On one hand we have a guy on a landscape forum who is obviously doing more than just boring old landscapes. On the other hand we have 2 guys arguing about whether he has the right equipment when we don't know hardly anything about what he is doing or how far he is hauling. I think if you guys wanna be a major player like this someday, you would be much better off asking him to educate you on why he chose this route as opposed to what you would have done rather than criticizing his approach.

Gravel Rat
03-09-2006, 02:32 AM
Nobody doubts the the quality of Bill's work and know what he is doing look through the pictures of his website.

Its the size of equipment he bought to do the job a 250,000lb plus mass excavator and a haul truck you would think he is mining instead of excavating.

UNISCAPER
03-09-2006, 08:52 AM
On a final reply ( I gpot better things to do than argue about equipment) Looking at the site, if you can't see the volcanic rock sediment throught, and the size of the boulders and stone, you're blind. We set off core 13 rounds of dynamite from 10AM until 3PM just to get rolling and had 6 county policeman standing on the roadside looking downward at the action. So weather you arew mining, or digging, it's the same thing in this application. WE will have a crush plant deleivered next week some time and will be using gravel from the dig as backfill and base, any of the rest will be sold off. We can't get a permit for washing gravel so I'm hoping the machine comming can screen down to 3/4 and extract the dust similarly to the way they do it at one of the pits we haul from. If that happens we will make bank on the wall.

Scag48
03-09-2006, 12:07 PM
So you're going to pick up a 345 after the sale of the 5130? Sounds awesome, good to see someone is breaking the "landscaper" mold.

AintNoFun
03-09-2006, 04:53 PM
im kinda lost.. looking at your website its so unrelated to the pictures you've posted? i mean thats some serious dirt work not building paver patios, is this all done under one company? im not doubting ya, i just got lost. my family has a 600+ million dollar a year contracting company and they only have a pc600 with a bunch of pc 400's...

burntcookie
03-09-2006, 06:34 PM
That has to be fake - the scale looks wrong! ;) :drinkup:

mrusk
03-09-2006, 07:22 PM
Aintnofun- Whats the name of the company? I am from NJ.

Dirty Water
03-09-2006, 07:50 PM
That has to be fake - the scale looks wrong! ;) :drinkup:

It does look odd, but you can see the teeth marks from the bucket in the dirt...something was digging there :), I think the picture is overexposed, making it look odd.

There is no shadows from the excavator too.

I'm still in awe of someone who can go from installing residential walls and patio's to huge commercial stuff and still make a buck.

mrusk
03-09-2006, 07:55 PM
Most of his residential walls were bigger than any walls most of us will ever build! Residential or commerical.

He must have to hire 30 guys or something for that job!

UNISCAPER
03-09-2006, 08:13 PM
Let me spell this one out. Basically, a wall is a wall. Same concepts, different engineering, different sized machinery. Principles all the same.

There are 3 different profitable ventures with this purchase. Someone mentioned other machinery used in conjunction with the large iron. Yes. We will be using several smaller machines along with the two pieces we bought. First money making venture. Dirt and rock work, bid at X per cubic yard moved based on circumstances per application. Since there are 4 soil types, there are 4 prices used. Second venture, the construction of a segmental wall to engineers specs. Third, the purchase and sale of two pieces of equipment, which we bought at one price, and have sold at another. We just got to the sale faster than the guy who bought them from us. Dangers...Sale falling through in 13 months of the big Cats. Liklihood, not very. Regarding project sizes on my website vs the size of this project. A little back ground. Before starting our company in 1991, I had 10 years in with my uncle, who, had a mass earth moving enterprize and was a golf course developer. I traveled the world during that time, spending 3 years in the middle east, 2 years in Europe, and the rest of the time in the states. I've just been waiting for the right time to make a carreer shift. I like to keep things interesting.

Dirty Water
03-09-2006, 08:45 PM
Your a lucky man Bill.... A lucky lucky man.

That said, next time I'm in cali I'd love to see your guys in action.

Marek
03-09-2006, 09:02 PM
Bill have you tried the keystone key set system? If so how do you like it and has it helped with your production? Finally if I may ask what did it cost you? Looks like you have a new pet project.Keep us posted as I am sure we will all be watching.

jreiff
03-09-2006, 11:07 PM
Have any more pictures of the job?

qps
03-10-2006, 09:13 AM
It does look odd, but you can see the teeth marks from the bucket in the dirt...something was digging there :), I think the picture is overexposed, making it look odd.

There is no shadows from the excavator too.

I'm still in awe of someone who can go from installing residential walls and patio's to huge commercial stuff and still make a buck.


Cloudy day:dizzy:

ma5tr
03-10-2006, 06:35 PM
I'm a sceptic.....I would like to see a picture with you in front of that thing or in it to confirm that thing is yours....it just seems a bit overkill. My first impression of the thread was that is was a joke, and just started to get the "awe" factor from everyone...but once people thought it might be yours you ran with it...... Your work on your website is nice.....but one of the biggest sewer contractors i know of dosent have that size of excavator.

I must say...I do not agree with 90% of what Gravel Rat says, but I think he is DEAD right in this situtation. Articulated truck and a 345 or 385 would be and ARE more practical in a situation as shown.

i understand you have it sold once the job is done, but i guess I would have to see you in person with the reciept for that machine to believe it. I'm just not easily impressed....i need to see the facts.

A Great teacher once told me ...."Question Everything!!!"

Dirty Water
03-11-2006, 07:24 PM
Bump.

waiting for more pictures.

sheshovel
03-11-2006, 07:33 PM
I will vouge for Uniscaper for whatever that's worth..he's a man of his word and does not need to prove anything to me..he has always been extremely
professional and informative and helpfull to all on this site.In fact he invited me down to a convention he was going to be participating in in his area..I was unable to go but his rep in that area is second to none.I know I checked him out.

Dirty Water
03-11-2006, 07:35 PM
I will vouge for Uniscaper for whatever that's worth..he's a man of his word and does not need to prove anything to me..he has always been extremely
professional and informative and helpfull to all on this site.In fact he invited me down to a convention he was going to be participating in in his area..I was unable to go but his rep in that area is second to none.I know I checked him out.

I don't doubt him.

I want more project pictures because its an awesome project.

Squizzy246B
03-11-2006, 07:45 PM
I sure hate to buy that machine and haul truck. Most of the contractors here will run 45-50 ton excavators and use articulated dump trucks (30 ton).

Two 45 ton excavators and 2 articuated trucks can move alot of earth. The articulated trucks are not so sensitive to the roads they have to haul on. The big haul trucks need a decent road same with that excavator it would flop over pretty easy if it got on uneasy ground. Bigger the machine harder they fall and harder to get back on its tracks

I must say...I do not agree with 90% of what Gravel Rat says, but I think he is DEAD right in this situtation. Articulated truck and a 345 or 385 would be and ARE more practical in a situation as shown.

Without seeing the site or considering any of the important factors we have "very informed comment". Try something like "hey Bill, did you consider using some smaller gear or was that monster on site already, just wondering?"...might have got you an informed response. The cost of equipment mobilisation can be 1/8 the cost of a machine in some cases. The hourly hire rate on 6 machines you'd need to keep up with this setup and costs for 3 months...your not there but just have a think about it. If you have a question ask.

murray83
03-11-2006, 07:47 PM
damn,the cat rental store shure went big this time :laugh:

iowacatman
03-13-2006, 08:20 AM
Nice one Bill. ;-)
What did it cost to haul that in?

bobcat9957
03-15-2006, 10:49 PM
I am surprised nobody has mentioned scrapers. 1.3 million yards can be moved pretty quick with a couple 657s. Thats not alot of material and wouldnt be worth using that equipment for.

Scag48
03-15-2006, 10:58 PM
Scrapers only work if you're making shot runs. From the looks and sounds of this project, scrapers wouldn't be productive.

Gravel Rat
03-16-2006, 12:15 AM
Where Bill is you need a excavator and for the ground he is digging it would be way too hard for a scraper to even scrape.

M RASCOE&SONS
03-16-2006, 01:53 AM
that whole setup looks out of place for a job that size imo ,i have worked on two of the biggest casino projects in the united states plus 100s of other projects working with O&G ,MANAFORT BROTHERS ,PERINI AND US KOBYLUCK .THE cost too move both of those machines are astronomical and fuel alone on a daily basis would be crazy so for me to believe a landscaper purchased those machines for that job let alone handled just the bid alone for that job is upserd,we had offices full of project managers and engineers to do that stuff and it was nuts.i was in the earth moving field on very large scales for over 10 yrs and i turned to landscaping for a stress break from the high pressures of large scale work and i dont mean walls.

ma5tr
03-16-2006, 02:24 PM
Amen to rascoe&sons. As for scrapers I to believe they are unbeatable as far as preparing subdivisions etc..But you have to remember its hard to trench with them unless the trench is the width of the machine...and its just not as economical to do it with one. But I must admit it is fun to watch scrapers change landscapes.

iowacatman
03-17-2006, 10:15 AM
Hey Bill, Here comes that Demo machine I promised ya!
http://acmoc.phpwebhosting.com/files/pc_3000__11.jpg

I sure hope you buy it, it cost alot of $$ to get it to you.
(by the way, that is a Komatsu PC3000)

Pro-Scapes
03-17-2006, 11:02 AM
I cant beilive everyone is doubting a guy... has anyone been on the jobsite here besides Bill?

Even if the equip was a bit big he had his reasons such as the net off the purchase and resale of the equip.

Just because most of us wouldnt dream of taking a job that big why bash him for it. Im with the rest on wanting to see more pics.. I love big iron and wish I got to play with something bigger than my JD tractor lol.

If he was having to blast I doubt a scraper would be a good idea.

Get with the pics Bill lets see this all through the stages. Love your site excellent work.

Squizzy246B
03-18-2006, 09:35 AM
I believe Bill has gone fishing. Lucky....

Mindless
03-30-2006, 09:37 PM
Bill,

Is this project located off of the 405 near Westminster?

Terry

UNISCAPER
03-30-2006, 10:42 PM
No. Rancho Santa Fe Rd by San Marcos Island. Anyhow, it's been and obscenely busy past couple weeks. Invoices sent off, production runs tabulated, it's comming together quite nicely. I'll get a few more pictures when I get a breather. This machine next to a D-8N makes the 8 look like a Tonka toy.

crab
04-01-2006, 08:04 PM
what exactly are you doing,sorry first thread not sure what to do

sheshovel
04-03-2006, 04:08 PM
crab look and read the 1st page of this thread..UNISCAPER lays out the whole job..aLLya gotta do is read it carefully K?That will tell you what exactly he is doing.

kreft
09-30-2007, 05:10 PM
so where are all of the pictures uniscraper?

GradeMan
09-30-2007, 07:10 PM
Gotts to see some pics???????????????????????

hosejockey2002
09-30-2007, 11:08 PM
Look at the dates, bruthas, this thread is a year and a half old...:dizzy:

kreft
10-01-2007, 03:54 PM
yep...and were still waiting for the pics!

STRINGALATION
10-01-2007, 09:00 PM
patience is a virtue

P.Services
10-01-2007, 09:24 PM
i think he bought that truck so he could haul all the bs that came out of his mouth!!!