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View Full Version : 25 Duplex buildings bid


lawnrangeralaska
03-09-2006, 01:42 AM
25 duplex buildings on 8 acres i estimate and this is a over 55 community. I would need to trim around every building, trees and flower beds, and down the sidewalks, and driveways, and blow clippings off drive ways. The people that do it have two walkers and they mow it and trim it in 8 - 9 hours. I was wondering what a fair price would be for this. These aren't the fastest two workers i've seen either. I would be using two 48" walkers and total of 3 guys. Just curious what yal would bid a job like this that you can stay working non stop for 8 hours on.

nmhorns
03-09-2006, 01:58 AM
3,250/month

CAG
03-09-2006, 02:02 AM
really hard to say without seeing it but if its taking 2 guys 8-9 hrs i would go from 800-1000 per cut.. The hrs seem to be a little high though for a 8acre 25building complex..Keep in mind that you can mow full blast cutting res all day but its a little hard to do with a commercial acc that you are at all day..

lawnrangeralaska
03-09-2006, 02:28 AM
on this property you have small front lawns and side lawns and then a few big open common areas and then some long striaght sections, because how the lawns are laid out I can see how it takes so long. And the trimming was 2 hours with 2 guys and only 6 hours of mowing.

CAG
03-09-2006, 03:09 AM
feel them out for a price 1k would be nice

lawnrangeralaska
03-09-2006, 03:21 AM
i kinda thought 800 was a fair price, i need to land it before i raise it up to 1k i think

LawnGuy73
03-09-2006, 08:54 AM
i kinda thought 800 was a fair price, i need to land it before i raise it up to 1k i think

$800! You should be getting at least $35-$40 a door, at least. At $800 your going to lose the shirt on your back. :hammerhead:

lawnrangeralaska
03-12-2006, 02:57 PM
800 is almost 35 a door!

promower
03-12-2006, 03:20 PM
I mow something very similar to what your describing only its 2 acres, and 71 units. I charge 2750 a month but that also includes snow. I dont think charging by the door or unit is really the way to go. Will it take 8-9 total man hours or 8-9 hours per guy. If its 8-9 total hours then I guess my price would come in around $450, if it's 8-9 per guy then I would say around $1300 per cut.

Billz
03-12-2006, 04:38 PM
Why would you double your man hours, and triple your price? All our condo developments we do are per unit...we make more money that way, it seems, and it was easier to sell to the assoc.
there are 50 units, 800 is only $16 per door...which I would really push to the assoc...2 guys for 8 hours on 8 acres seems long, but with lots of edging and trimming is possible... that is $100 per acre, and $50 per man hour...if it is mostly retired people you might want to go higher, simply for the reason that half of them will come out each week, and nitpick anything they feel will strike up a conversation, retired people here are lonely, and love to chat about almost anything!

MMLawn
03-12-2006, 05:32 PM
800 is almost 35 a door!


NO IT'S NOT! :dizzy: You said it was 25 DUPLEX buildings.....that means 50 doors....and at $800 that is $16 a door :hammerhead: ......which makes your response a perfect eample of someone not knowing their cost of doing business because you thought you would be charging twice per door what you really would be. BUT even though math isn't your forte, that $16 is still around the going rate for apts per door.

Runner
03-12-2006, 05:56 PM
There is just no way of telling...So many people come on here and ask what THEY should charge for this ot that. There is no way of telling the man hours, equipment used, cost of doing it, costs at their location, etc.. There are just too many factors to be weighed in, here.

lawnrangeralaska
03-12-2006, 06:07 PM
NO IT'S NOT! :dizzy: You said it was 25 DUPLEX buildings.....that means 50 doors....and at $800 that is $16 a door :hammerhead: ......which makes your response a perfect eample of someone not knowing their cost of doing business because you thought you would be charging twice per door what you really would be. BUT even though math isn't your forte, that $16 is still around the going rate for apts per door.

Whats the big deal it takes 8 hours and i make $800? Can you do that smart***?

lawnwizards
03-12-2006, 06:14 PM
for 8 hours worth of work i'd like to get atleast 1k for this job. being in 1 place is nice, but not if youre not making any money.... if you think 800 is a good bid for you then go for it... only you know what it takes to make money.

MysticLandscape
03-12-2006, 06:21 PM
Whats the big deal it takes 8 hours and i make $800? Can you do that smart***?

How much are you charing per hr for the two walkers?

lawnrangeralaska
03-12-2006, 06:28 PM
For a 2,000 hour lifetime only about $5.00 a hour. But when i come up with a bid i figure in 20 a hour on my machine. Not to sure if i need to charge more because i run two Walkers though. Only because i can cut lawns twice as fast so then i can do more lawns per day. Which helps keep my prices lower. With one walker i was doing between 10-16 lawns per day.

SCAG POWER
03-12-2006, 06:37 PM
I once bid a job that was some what like this in Port Orange Fl. They were use to paying about $1,320.00 per month, and were getting a very poor job done at that . After looking over the whole scope of this project i went to the president and gave her my figures well, i tell you she at first like them i came up with $ 1,375.00 and she almost went for it untill she red that it was per week...................................... just fell out her chair and said we only pay $1,300.00 per month and they also wanted a lot of things through in for free like the boat area trimed every other week free the dock area trimed each week for free.

So i said based on what you have told me that needs to be done around each unit thats where we stand................................41,375.00 PER WEEK , I HAD COME UP WITH A RAW COST OF $750.00 per week just to produce the job let a lone make any money off it.:usflag:

chriscraft
03-12-2006, 07:07 PM
you get $700 per 2 acres per week? im in hte wrong area. we are blessed to get $40 an acre in michigan, and you get $350 per acre. i would guess around 9 man hours depending on trimming and $400 per cut, but i would not get at that proce becuase non legits would do it for $300 lol

promower
03-12-2006, 07:23 PM
for 8 hours worth of work i'd like to get atleast 1k for this job. being in 1 place is nice, but not if youre not making any money.... if you think 800 is a good bid for you then go for it... only you know what it takes to make money.


That would be an impressive account to have, 8 hrs of lawn mowing for $1000 ! Not saying it cant be done but thats over $100 an hour, hard enough getting people to pay $50-$60 an hour.

lawnwizards
03-12-2006, 07:27 PM
That would be an impressive account to have, 8 hrs of lawn mowing for $1000 ! Not saying it cant be done but thats over $100 an hour, hard enough getting people to pay $50-$60 an hour.
what would you have to get out of it to take it?

MMLawn
03-12-2006, 07:34 PM
Whats the big deal it takes 8 hours and i make $800? Can you do that smart***?


:laugh: I imagine I can Kid....since I have 28 fulltime employees.....

BTW, not my fault that at 17 years old you still can't properly figure your cost of doing business and I ASSURE you that even if you are operating illegally that your mowers are costing you more than your stated $5 an hour to run...:dizzy:

MysticLandscape
03-12-2006, 07:45 PM
Now I have no experience with commerical so please don't jump all over me, but I would pro charge $65/hr to have both those mowers running. Lets say between the two they burn 3 gallons and hr (no idea what a gas machine burns an hr) so that is 2.20 X 3 gallons = $6.60 and hr in fuel, lets say you got 2 people driving them at $10/hr so thats $26.60/hr to run the machines before you make any money. Thats just how i would think it out, like i said i have no expericence with commerical but it cant be much harder than residential.

down size
03-12-2006, 08:06 PM
I use to cut a complex about the same amount of ground it had 33 duplex units. I used a 52 wright stander,60 exmark lazer and one guy trimming took us about 5 hrs $1320.00 a cut . but it also had alot of trim work. now a management company took over the HOA. they have there own mowing crew and they cut it for 850.00 a cut. the place looks horrible now. I guess you get what you pay for!

MMLawn
03-12-2006, 08:17 PM
Now I have no experience with commerical so please don't jump all over me, but I would pro charge $65/hr to have both those mowers running. Lets say between the two they burn 3 gallons and hr (no idea what a gas machine burns an hr) so that is 2.20 X 3 gallons = $6.60 and hr in fuel, lets say you got 2 people driving them at $10/hr so thats $26.60/hr to run the machines before you make any money. Thats just how i would think it out, like i said i have no expericence with commerical but it cant be much harder than residential.

You're on the right track and that's a good start. Don't forget also that a $10 an hour employee cost you more then $10 though with the employers tax and FICA match you must do. So a $10 an hour employee is actually about a $14 an hour cost for you and that is PRE Workers Comp cost even. Then you also must figure in the cost of oil, filters, belts, blades, grease, other maintenance, insurance, etc, all figured as a grand total amount and then divided by the number of hours you cut a year, then divided by the number of mowers you use. Of course different type mowers may/will change the price a bit from mower to mower.

Then to get a "true" picture of your total cost to do business per hour you add in vehicles, fuel, liability insurance, workers comp, cost of materials, ect then add and divide and you will get a "real" cost of doing business.......and I think it would surprise must people on here (esp those that "think" they have little to no business overhead) who have only been in business a few years of what their total cost of doing busines IS versus what they mistakingly THOUGHT it was.

lawnrangeralaska
03-12-2006, 08:27 PM
Hey i might not have the price per hour down, but my bidding jobs is excellent. Most all my accounts are over $60 a week and these all take less then 40 minutes to mow. Alot at 40-45$ and these i cut in 10-20 minutes. One lawn i cut it takes 8minutes and i make $50.00. I will even get a picture of this lawn if requested. BTW i am 18, and i have one mill in liability and commerical auto insurance. All my equipment is paid for. I made 31,000 in 15-17 weeks. I pay 10 per hour for my single employee. And i grew my business to 55plus lawns a week in 05. This year i will be in the ball park of 85-95 lawns a week. Plus one cemetary, few churches, and the 25dueplex job hopefully. If not i know for sure i can gain another 30 accounts for 06. I landed 8 already from another company that moved. AND I PAY TAXES AND DO ALL THE WORKER COMP STUFF THROUGH A PRIVATE COMPANY!

baddboygeorge
03-12-2006, 11:02 PM
i just approached a community just like this an the property manager told me point blank if ya cant do it for under 300 dollars dont even bother wasting your time ,, i said thanks see ya !!

LwnmwrMan22
03-12-2006, 11:15 PM
Hey i might not have the price per hour down, but my bidding jobs is excellent. Most all my accounts are over $60 a week and these all take less then 40 minutes to mow. Alot at 40-45$ and these i cut in 10-20 minutes. One lawn i cut it takes 8minutes and i make $50.00. I will even get a picture of this lawn if requested. BTW i am 18, and i have one mill in liability and commerical auto insurance. All my equipment is paid for. I made 31,000 in 15-17 weeks. I pay 10 per hour for my single employee. And i grew my business to 55plus lawns a week in 05. This year i will be in the ball park of 85-95 lawns a week. Plus one cemetary, few churches, and the 25dueplex job hopefully. If not i know for sure i can gain another 30 accounts for 06. I landed 8 already from another company that moved. AND I PAY TAXES AND DO ALL THE WORKER COMP STUFF THROUGH A PRIVATE COMPANY!

You have a different company pay your taxes??? :dizzy:

Anyway's we're happy for you. Don't jump all over MM, he's just trying to help you out.

You say you pay your single employee $10 / hour. I ball park my employee costs at 2.5 times more than their wages, that figure I used to cover all FICA, taxes, wages, AND the cost of whatever equipment they're using.

If they're not working, then obviously the equipment isn't being used. This way it's easier because you have your fixed cost / hour for owning the machine, and you're not so concerned about running it.

If you're making $30-40 / man hour, and your costs are at $25, you're doing okay, at least you're making money.

However, if you have one major failure, you're going to be cash poor for quite a while.

If you can get that up to $50-70 / man hour, then you're going to be able to survive a major failure, whether it be a mower going down, or the transmission in the truck.

If you're going to hug that cost of what you need to break even / man hour, be ready for some serious headaches soon.

MysticLandscape
03-12-2006, 11:21 PM
Thats good, im glad to see your doing good. I wasn't trying to bust your balls about your pricing i was just giving you an idea of how i would price it. I wish I had that much work but im still in school, and I have to go to college once I am out of highschool so I still got a ways to go before I am full time.

lawnrangeralaska
03-12-2006, 11:51 PM
Thats good, im glad to see your doing good. I wasn't trying to bust your balls about your pricing i was just giving you an idea of how i would price it. I wish I had that much work but im still in school, and I have to go to college once I am out of highschool so I still got a ways to go before I am full time.

Well you must be doing ok, you have a newer truck with plow two enclosed trailers, a diesel Walker and a walk behind. You have to have some good accounts to be able to afford all that. I know i had to, espically to get where i am today.

lawnrangeralaska
03-12-2006, 11:52 PM
:laugh: I imagine I can Kid....since I have 28 fulltime employees.....

BTW, not my fault that at 17 years old you still can't properly figure your cost of doing business and I ASSURE you that even if you are operating illegally that your mowers are costing you more than your stated $5 an hour to run...:dizzy:

Sorry for being rude!

MMLawn
03-13-2006, 12:39 AM
Sorry for being rude!


No Problemo! :waving:

lawnrangeralaska
03-13-2006, 01:21 AM
No Problemo! :waving:

So with all those employees how many lawns are you able to maintain?

promower
03-13-2006, 01:13 PM
what would you have to get out of it to take it?

Like I said in an earlier post if it was going to take a total of 8-9 man hours I would be in at around $450. Pricing by the unit doesnt always work. I have one job thats a condo building and all there is, is a strip of grass that takes about 8 min to do. Its a 30 unit condo, f I add up the price per unit for this job it comes up $1 per unit. I have other condos that are $10-$25 per unit. When I bid a job I go by how many man hours will be involved.

lawnrangeralaska
03-13-2006, 01:33 PM
i would be there for max of 8 hours. mowing , trimming , blowing, edging, and i have to empty my walkers alot because they will fill up alot in the growing season.

lawnrangeralaska
03-13-2006, 01:36 PM
Like I said in an earlier post if it was going to take a total of 8-9 man hours I would be in at around $450. Pricing by the unit doesnt always work. I have one job thats a condo building and all there is, is a strip of grass that takes about 8 min to do. Its a 30 unit condo, f I add up the price per unit for this job it comes up $1 per unit. I have other condos that are $10-$25 per unit. When I bid a job I go by how many man hours will be involved.

Well it's my employee and I work total for 8 hours. And i would be running two Walkers for est. 6 hours of the 8. The dump fee doesn't matter. They allow me to dump for free most of the time. And if not its only 5 bucks.

MysticLandscape
03-13-2006, 03:36 PM
Well it's my employee and I work total for 8 hours. And i would be running two Walkers for est. 6 hours of the 8. The dump fee doesn't matter. They allow me to dump for free most of the time. And if not its only 5 bucks.

What not run the hustler too?

qualitylawnmanagement
03-13-2006, 07:07 PM
For some of guys this might help you out. Just punch in your numbers and it will find out your hourly rate for you.

http://www.lawncaredirectory.com/estimatecalculator.htm

Hope it helps you guys out, I know it has helped me out on pricing jobs.

MMLawn
03-13-2006, 07:52 PM
So with all those employees how many lawns are you able to maintain?


We are 80% Commercial so I do it by total of acres. On the books right this minute for 2006 are 719 acres....but I do have several bids outstanding still also :walking:

promower
03-14-2006, 02:09 AM
719 acres, thats it??? One motivated employee should get that done no problem:weightlifter:

lawnrangeralaska
03-14-2006, 03:04 PM
We are 80% Commercial so I do it by total of acres. On the books right this minute for 2006 are 719 acres....but I do have several bids outstanding still also :walking:

WOW thats alot of work to look after.

ODwyerPW
03-14-2006, 03:21 PM
First,
Don't listen to anyone here who hasn't done this type of 'near senior housing' before. 25 Dupexes is 50 customers. That's 50 people who are pretty much bored stiff watching all day long. All of them remember the glory of the good old days, when their neighbors kid spent two hours on their lawns and charged only $5. These will not be gracious customers. I did 6 associations this size and larger last year.

Another thing to bear in mind is the mowing is the least of it. It's much like painting a room, where you find you are cutting in all day long. All of the these properties we had like this last year had 2 guys string trimming, weeding and blowing for every 1 guy on a large Z Turn or Walk Behind.

What is your standard cost per man hour? Take that by 27 hours, add in any incidentals (like grass clipping dumping fees and the time it will take to drive to whereever you dump). Sounds like a 10 hour day for 3 employees altogether.

ODwyerPW
03-14-2006, 03:58 PM
Do you have to do Spring and Fall Cleanups?

Do they expect you to trim shrubbery in Spring and Fall?

Are you expected to keep the mulch beds weed free?

Will you have to edge the sidwalks and driveways?

27 hrs * $50 (unit hour cost) = $1350 a week. If you want to make it palatable to the HOA, say $25 (Reasonable for fully maintaining an estimated 75' X 75' lot) for each of the 50units and make it $1250, common areas thrown in.

27 hrs * $35 (unit hour cost) = $945 a week. If you want to make it palatable to the HOA, say $25 (Reasonable for fully maintaining an estimated 75' X 75' lot) for each of the 50units and make it $995, common areas thrown in.

Questions are: Do you know your unit costs? Do you really know if you can do it in the same time as the other folks and provide the level of quality that is acceptable (thats the key...acceptable...which can be higher or lower than your own standard) to the 5 crankiest members/residents of the HOA?

Will you get it? I don't know. Doesn't sound like you need it if not.

lawnrangeralaska
03-15-2006, 12:07 AM
Today i went and talked to the President of the hoa. I drove up with my 2 walkers on my trailer. And pointed out i have the same equipment as the people cutting it now and heres pictures of there cruddy work and heres pictures of mine, also i am a little cheaper and i do better work. She seemed really impressed but said that she wasnt looking for any bids but would show mine to the board. Shes leaving out of state and i will call her in a month and see if anything went through.