ZTR's...AM I MISSING SOMETHING?

[iski3d]

WHAT IS SO GREAT ABOUT A ZTR? I HAVE A NEW FERRIS 61" DD HYDRO WALKBEHIND WITH A VELKI AND I CANT SEE GAINING MUCH, IF ANYTHING, BY USING A 61 ZTR. SO WHY DO SO MANY PEOPLE LIKE THEM? I PAID $5,100 FOR MY MACH WITH THE 23 HP KAWI, WHICH IS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME SETUP YOU WOULD FIND ON A ZTR, FOR ABOUT 3 GRAND LESS. WALKBEHINDS ARE ALSO ABLE TO MOW UNDER TREES AND IT CAN CUT SIDEWAYS OR UP AND DOWN STEEP HILLS WITH NO PROBLEM. SO WHATS SO SPECIAL ABOUT ZTR's?

[CSRA Landscaping]

... on how lazy you are. I have a ztr and I like it, it gives me a good few minutes in between all the real work. That said, I think the next mower that I get will be a WB b/c I need s/t better for hills.

[lee b]

I've never used a walk-behind, but I've never seen one mow at 9 mph either. A good ztr will mow circles around a walk-behind and I'm pretty sure it would be alot more comfortable. Just my opinion.

[mdb landscaping]

ztr doesnt wreck your knees as much. my scag walkbehind can mow around 7 mph. you may need to jog with it though. ztrs offer a comfort level. sit instead of stand. is it worth a few grand? depends i guess, but my new exmark beats walking or standing.

[CSRA Landscaping]

How have you found it to be on hills? Is there a ztr that can ride hills sideways, and do it well?

[Eric ELM]

If you are asking this question, you probably have never used a ZTR. A Velke will beat you to death compared to a ZTR. Also the heavier the ZTR, the smoother the ride. My diesel Chopper has an unreal ride. I didn't realize just how good the ride was until I mowed today with the older Chopper that is much lighter.

[awm]

im thinking about some sort of wt. for the front of my lazer.this thing goes strait up an down hills better than a lt. i was on a bank today that had the front end skipping
up an down. but it holds traction pretty good.
front wts would be necessary though. i dont need this thing laying on top of me.later on

[Eric ELM]

I welded a 1 1/4" reciever hitch on the front of my diesel Chopper that I use for my electric spreader, dethatcher, and what ever else I end up using it for. I could also make a weight bracket to hang 1 or 2 suitcase weights on it. It would be an easy way to quickly add weight to yours too. Just slide the bracket into the receiver, put in 1 pin and add the weight and your off. :)

[edward hedrick]

I have a Scag Sthm 61 similiar to your Ferris only with a seat.Its great for under trees and sides of hills. If
I need more traction winch the front slightly. Working on a baffle from a Husky ridr. Still waiting for grass to try it

[Ssouth]

iski3d, I'm sure the 61" walk behind is a great machine, but when mowing large open areas a ZTR is a must. My mowers will cut great at full speed (10 mph). Just think how long it would take and how tired you would be after cutting several hours non stop with a 61" walkbehind. for thirty minute stops I can see where a walk behind would be good. But if you are going to mow for several hours straight, how could a walk behind be better than riding. I'm not downing you I'm just trying to give you some perspective on why a ZTR is better than a walk behind.

BTW, Please feel out you profile so we can know how to answer you questions more efficiently.

[Edited by Ssouth on 04-24-2001 at 10:16 PM]

[eggy]

After owning both and using a walkbehinds one season and a ztr for a full season..I would never touch a walk behind again I have a 36 inch scag it was the trim mower but a 44ztr toro is taking its place, outside of that we use 61 inch decks..I guess it depends on what you more...we are leaaning towardss all commercial large jobs..

[Edited by Eric ELM on 04-24-2001 at 10:51 PM]

[65hoss]

cutting speed of a ZTR is much quicker. On larger lawns a ztr will run circles around a wb. Not to mention, the ZTR is much easier on your body. As the years roll by it would be much better to make it as easy on yourself as possible.

[Jason_S]

The heavier mower will sink in the wet stuff and leave ruts. A walk behind with a Velke will go PLENTY FAST. Our LESCO will easily do 9mph while dragging my fat *** !!!

Since I'm young, I really don't care as much as the lazier (but wiser) old-timers out there.

Another benefit to walk-behind is that you can take STEEP hills with ease. Maybe w/0 the Velke, but at least it's not a little push mower!!!!!!

[accuratelawn]

Each mower has its place. I love my 60" Lazer for large areas or several small one together. I bought a Grate Dane Gateway this season 52" hydro WB. With the rocket wheels I can cut small to medium properties much faster than the Lazer. With the ability to fold up the deck and take a 52 thru a 36 inch gate, I get alot of productivity out of this mower.

[joshua]

ok , i didn't read all the posts, but a lazer z is faster, and in my opinion it strips alittle better. about hills i can cut any hill a walk behind can, about 65 or 70 degrees with no problem. i hope this helps you. oh yea 1 more, the bagging system can hold 2 or 3 x as much as a bag for a walkbehind.

[David Gretzmier]

a wb that goes 9 mph? I'd like to see that. we do 15 acres on 2-3 acre open lots in a nice subdivision, and I can mow the whole thing on my midmount 321d grasshopper in about 4 hours. If I had to do the same w/ a velke... I'd quit. dave

[Eric ELM]

Out in the back of a lawn next to a forest preserve right in the corner there is a soft spot in between the lawn I do and the lawn another LCO that I know does. He mows this lawn the day before we do and I noticed he had gotten stuck with his 48" Bob Cat mower and left ruts at least 4" deep. I drove though this same area with my 1200 lb. diesel and I barely sank in. My diesel has 25" tall tires and 12" wide, so there is a lot of rubber hitting the turf. I have gone through areas with it that were so soft that when walking the same area, I sank in lots further.

I'm not trying to turn this into a spiting contest, but I just wanted to let you know that a person walking turf can sink in more that a ZTR. I have tried a w/b with a stand on sulky and there is no way I would want to go that route. I'm not saying you are wrong for liking it better, I am just saying, it's not for me. Good luck this season. :)

[Eric ELM]

There is no way you can mow a 65 to 70 degree angle except if you pushed that Lazer off of this cliff. You can't even walk a angle that steep. A 45 degree angle is about the steepest anyone can mow with a ZTR and/or walk up. I was a carpenter for many years and a 12/12 pitched roof is a 45 degree angle and it is very steep to try to walk. 70 degrees is almost straight up, 90 degrees is straight up.

[Mark]

Joshua one of my yds is on very steep hills which overlooks the River. It would be impossible for me to mow this yd with my Z-Master. Some of the hills are around 40 degrees or steeper,only my waldbehind is used on this property. There is noway you can mow a 70degree hill,well maybe a 21" with a rope but i think it would just fall. Even mowing this with my walkbehind ive had to rope it and use a comealong three times for my walkbehind sliding 20 feet into there fence or shrubs they have a huge line of boxwoods which have saved my mower several times. Waldbehinds are needed on alot of my propertys. Marks Mowing Service

[Esby]

Considering price difference I think I will give up the comfort ride and speed, wich isn't a huge difference for small to meduim yards, for the extra $3,000 in overhead. But this doesn't mean I dont think I would consider one in the future, they do mow large areas faster. Time will tell. Good luck to all!

[oneEXMARKfan]

I guess a 12" drop every foot would be a 45 degree angle, but it SURE seemed steeper when I was roofing......lol...
Of course sometimes I didn't like walking much more than an "8".

[Eric ELM]

I agree, a 8/12 pitch is steep enough. Anything over that I wanted some cleats nailed to the roof for toe holds. I have roofed some old barns with the gambrial roofs, that is like roofing a wall, sort of like the 70 degree angle that is mentioned.

[KirbysLawn]

Originally posted by joshua
ok , i didn't read all the posts, but a lazer z is faster, and in my opinion it strips alittle better. about hills i can cut any hill a walk behind can, about 65 or 70 degrees with no problem.

Joshua, this is the second time you posted that you can mow a 70 degree angle lawn with no probklem, the last time several asked you questions and you never answered.

Do you know what 70 degrees is? I sure hope you are saying you can mow in 70 degree weather, because there is no way in he** you can mow a 70 degree angle on a ZTR or rider.

Ray

[Scraper]

I'm with what KutnKru aka Kris said in another post...you guys keep using them ZTR's...that way I can take your accounts when you rip them up to death. Especially you guys who say you'll never use a WB. How can you do a professional job with only one machine? I can understand using a ZTR for a flat or slightly sloped wide open area, but what about banks and such? I've been getting a kick out of all the newbies I've seen on the roads around here this spring with only a ZTR on the back of their trailers. I'm not knocking the ZTRs as I will have one in my repetoire soon, but it will ony be used on areas where the advantages don't override the disadvantages.

BTW...as for riding a sulky with a WB....if you have not tried the ProSlide and are using one of those wheeled pieces of junk....your loss! The ProSlide is so smooth you don't even realize things that wouldn't knocked your knees with a wheeled sulky. Been using mine going on two seasons now and from experience I can say they are the best!

[Eric ELM]

Ray, he did admit he doesn't read all the posts. I sure would like to see him mowing this angle with no problems on a ZTR. I do know he could go down this angle, but it would be like going down a cliff. I wouldn't want to be on or near this ZTR at the time though. ;)

[AltaLawnCare]

I'm with ESBY, there is no way I could justify the money for a ZTR now. I'm demoing a 52" TORO gear drive this week. I really can't afford that but, the JD345 48" is way too slow.
As for slopes I used to 4-wheel a lot with a Kawasaki 4 wheel drive 4-wheeler. It barely would climb a 50 - 60 degree slope.

[awm]

we ll all come an watch that if he agrees to wear a parachute.i think he is talking about mabe 30 degrees
instead of 70.least i hope he is.

[TJLC]

I mow some slopes with my w/b that guys with ztr's said they wouldn't try. But that's not to say I will never own a ztr. I'm sure they are nice on flat open areas. I agree you need to own a w/b with a ztr to have a complete package. I guess for now I just like to pull one mower off the trailer, start and finish, with one mower.

[Jason_S]

Eric ELM

I do know that sinking isn't TOO bad as long as there is sufficient contact area, but come-on! I'd have to think that the big ones will sink! If there is some most likely HEAVY guy (since he isn't walking too much) on one of the big ZTR's you WILL sink! As of right now, the walk-behind with a velke is a lot cheaper and more cost effective to me! It would be harder to trail two ZTR's than 2 Walkbehinds! I'd like to have a ZTR, but it wouldn't make me money very fast.(since payments will take longer)

Given, you may be able to mow a little quicker, but it still is expensive!

Oh yeah, the LESCO DOES DO 9mph! The only problem is that it won't cut very well. We are looking into some high lift blades to correct this, then we should be able to go faster.

[oneEXMARKfan]

"I do know that sinking isn't TOO bad as long as there is sufficient contact area, but come-on! I'd have to think that the big ones will sink"..........(I always liked those trucks they got in the Artic that can run over a person and not hurt them...... It's all in the surface area!

[Premo Services]

I used to think I didn`t think I needed a ztr either. until last year, after 5 years of the walkbehind scene.I had picked up 3 new customers at the begining of march and decided to get a ztr and go for larger properties. I still use the walk behind on props. with hills or the ones that wouldn`t be wise to use it on,and this year I picked up 2 more larger props. and doing all the extra work in the same time as before I got the new customers,ONLY NOT AS TIRED OR BEAT UP FROM THE WB, I wouldn`t want to do the 3-4 acre properties with a wb. Also the heat comming from the engine when it is hot on the wb would be increadible,with the ztr the engine is behind you.

[Acute Cut]

i was thinking about this topic today actually. I use both wb's and a lazer. The lazer is faster. It takes less energy and less work. The cool breeze from the speed is nice too. The size of the machine lets you use accessories from JRCO and some others. I can also take the lazer over areas that i can not dream of taking the wb due to wetness. The lazer has to be in the middle of a pond just about before it sinks.

That is the end of it as far as i can see. The cut is much worse. The bumps in a lawn are much more dangerous at 10.5 mph. I have almost been thrown many times. They are NOT as maneuverable as a walkbehind. I know they are true zero turns and all but it divots much to easy. Ever done lawns with more than a few of them rock flower beds around big trees. I only saved about 10 minutes with a lazer vs a wb on a 2 acre lawn i do on fridays. I can honestly say i am dissappointed with it overall. Perfectly flat lawns with no dandelions might be ok, but i dont have of those that are of any sort of acreage. I sincerely believe that when you get more speed you give up quality. I know some of you on here wont like that, but perhaps you are just getting........... comfortable.... in your ol age.

[Cutter1]

No offense, but I have never seen a lesco go 9mph!!! I use to use them so I know.

[scottb]

All's I got to say about this is they both have there places. Around here most resdintals can be done walkbehinds with no problem.But I myself will have a ZTR one day. But for now since the doctor said boy you need to lose about 40lbs I will keep walking and saving because the next time I pay cash.

[BufalinoLand]

I just purchased a 61 Tiger this season for the pure fact of being too beat after walking with a 48 scag wb. I agree with the people who say having both is key, each machine has its own use. a 36 will be on the list for next year so i have access to an arsenal of machines. That tiger kicks it at 10mph. not sure if i can cut that fast though

[HOMER]

Personally I walk enough with the trimmer, edger, blower and whatever else I need to do. If they made a ride on trimmer, a ride on blower, a ride on edger and hovering hedge trimmers I would try to own them too. I've already lost 10 pounds since the weather warmed up. I try my best to keep it on. I'm sure that a walkbehind is great if all you want to do is small commercial or residential. I wouldn't want to walk everywhere all day long, might as well sell the truck and trailer and just "hoof it" from account to account!

[awm]

I REALLY APPRECIATE A GOOD CUTTING WALK BEHIND
but today i was backed up already and had to stop and go get a thunder tooth pulled. was able to get everything done
which i would not have believed i had a chance to do.
im just plain sold on the z . excellent quality wk
without draining myself to get caught up

[LJ lawn]

after owning a couple of walk behinds i gave them up for the z rider and a walker.i have one small 32" walk behind for the small yards and hills. i could'nt see ever going back unless the macines are hydro and with a velky. BUT i think the z's are a necessity when it comes to collecing and leaf clean ups.

[John DiMartino]

Jason,I have to back Eric's statement about sinking.My Dixie chopper will go right thru a wet area easily,I have smaller tires than Eric,at 22",and my weight is the same when my bagger is on.This spring I had no problems going thru sopping wet areas,it even amazed me in that respect,the only thing I have used that goes better in the slop is my 4x4 steiner,with duals all the way around-it can walk on water,mud or anything else in its way.Remember the tire pressure on the ground in PSI is more important than the actual weight.His contact patch may be 4x that of a WB,while the weight is only a little more than double,so the WB will sink more,even though is weighs less.

[Jason_S]

Cutter1,

No offense to you also, but I use them and they do go that fast! Maybe you have the cheaper model. Maybe you are confused, they can't cut that fast, but on asphalt they can do it!!!!

[gogetter]

Hmmmm, 39 replies so far and not one comment or mention of the Wright Standers or Great Dane Super Surfers?!
Was just checking out the Stander today at a local dealer. I don't know how well they Really work, but I'm defintately intrigued by the IDEA of how they're supposed to work.
Gonna do a search on here for past comments, but sure would like to hear current thoughts on these machines (if they haven't been talked about a ton already).

[LJ lawn]

those standers look like good machines BUT i don't think the wright stander has a floating height adjustable deck.i need a machine i can adjust the height of cut without major ag.

[MRPLOW]

I have a Wright Stander and love it. Its ground speed is not as fast as a Lazer, but you will save time verses the lazer getting on and off. One decieving thing about it is when you look at it, it appears that you would ride leaning against the pad, but that bounces you around. The ride is real good when just standing and not leaning. The machine is very compact and can go under branches that a Lazer can not. They cost about the same or a couple hundred dollars more than a hydro walk behind. It scalps less than my 48 inch walk behind which is very rare. I paid $4300.00 for mine with a 16 hp b&s and 52 inch deck. If I was using it 8 hours a day I might want a sit down but as I am a solo operator my ride time is only about 3 hours a day, so ther is no fatigue.

[iski3d]

Ive heard of a guy who rolled his stander, though, so be careful on those side slopes.

[Jason_S]

I am impressed, just saw my first Dixie Chopper in action!! Boy, that thing was really flying. I'm sure I've seen the guy mowing before, but never knew what to look for.(DChopper) I would like to mow with that!!!