PDA

View Full Version : 2 cycle mix... okay after winter?


mkwl
03-09-2006, 11:14 PM
Okay guys, I've got a question for you ;). I had about 3 gallons of 50:1 mix left over from the fall, in one of my gas cans. I stabilized the mix, but I want to know, can I still use it in my trimmers and blowers without damaging anything?:confused:?

Thanks,
Matt

NEPSJay
03-09-2006, 11:17 PM
I wouldnt recommend you use it. I dont think any manufactures manuals will recommend it either. Be safe, dump it and start fresh.....save yourself the headaches of tryin to save a couple of bucks..... good luck

mkwl
03-09-2006, 11:24 PM
I wouldnt recommend you use it. I dont think any manufactures manuals will recommend it either. Be safe, dump it and start fresh.....save yourself the headaches of tryin to save a couple of bucks..... good luck

Okay, where could I get rid of it (legally)?

MMLawn
03-09-2006, 11:26 PM
If you stablized it wilth Sta-Bil or another equal brand of course you can, that is the reason for using the stablizer. It should be good for at least 90 days from when you stablized it.

NEPSJay
03-09-2006, 11:32 PM
If you stablized it wilth Sta-Bil or another equal brand of course you can, that is the reason for using the stablizer. It should be good for at least 90 days from when you stablized it.

for 6 louzy dollars worth of fuel you'd chance it???:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy: Take it to a jiffy lube or similar place to get rid of it. They take used motor oil, they should take used gas...

befnme
03-09-2006, 11:33 PM
Okay, where could I get rid of it (legally)?

dump it in your truck tank ,or mower tank .

MMLawn
03-09-2006, 11:38 PM
for 6 louzy dollars worth of fuel you'd chance it???:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy: Take it to a jiffy lube or similar place to get rid of it. They take used motor oil, they should take used gas...


CLEARLY then you have no idea what stabilizer does. :dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy:

NEPSJay
03-09-2006, 11:44 PM
CLEARLY then you have no idea what stabilizer does. :dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy:

If you read the first post he said it was left over from the fall....thats almost 6 months ago.... Tell ya what.... I'll pay the shipping for him to ship it to you so you can run it in ur equipment, and i'll send him 6 bucks to buy fresh.....

Luvs2Play
03-09-2006, 11:48 PM
I'll take it!

MMLawn
03-09-2006, 11:51 PM
If you read the first post he said it was left over from the fall....thats almost 6 months ago.... Tell ya what.... I'll pay the shipping for him to ship it to you so you can run it in ur equipment, and i'll send him 6 bucks to buy fresh.....


Like I said, then you CLEARLY have no idea what stabilizing the fuel does chemically...

I'd use it in a heart beat IF it was properly stabilized as stated.




Information Directly From Gold Eagle:

STA-BIL Fuel Stabilizer should be used in any vehicle or power equipment that is used infrequently or stored for more than 60 days. Also, treat fuel in gas cans or storage tanks as soon as purchased so fuel will stay fresh. STA-BIL Fuel Stabilizer ensures quick, easy starts in all 2 & 4 cycle engines. It is safe to use in all cars, trucks, SUV’s, boat motors, marine engines, tractors, motorhomes, motorcycles, ATV’s, snowmobiles, jet skis, lawnmowers, snow blowers, tillers, weed trimmers, golf carts, power washers and generators. Use in gas, gas/oil mixtures, oxygenated fuel, reformulated gas, and diesel fuel.

One ounce of STA-BIL Fuel Stabilizer will keep 2-1/2 gallons of fuel fresh for 12 months. Using twice the recommended dosage will keep fuel fresh for up to 24 months.

NEPSJay
03-10-2006, 12:02 AM
Like I said, then you CLEARLY have no idea what stabilizing the fuel does chemically...

I'd use it in a heart beat IF it was properly stabilized as stated.






Seems unfair to presume i have no knowledge of fuels and oils. The point i was trying to make is why would you gamble with 6 bucks worth of fuel? If unsure, pitch it and start fresh. I guess im not as conservative as some people when it comes to the operation and maintainance of my investments.

NEPSJay
03-10-2006, 12:02 AM
double post.....

JKOOPERS
03-10-2006, 12:23 AM
just leave the gas can on a competitors trailer thats one way to get rid of it.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

DLCS
03-10-2006, 12:26 AM
If it has stabilizer in it, I would use it no doubt.

Green-Pro
03-10-2006, 01:31 AM
I've used stabilizer in outboard motors and had no problems whatsoever. I would use it you may regret dumping gas that only cost $6 now when the cost spikes like a Roman candle in the not so distant future.

Mike MMlawn is 100% right on the money with this one.

WalkerMike98
03-10-2006, 01:37 AM
Use it as weed killer. Just pour it out and buy some fresh.

Richard Martin
03-10-2006, 04:35 AM
I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to use it if it been stabilized and we have to use the same crappy MTBE enhanced gas that they do in Jersey.

Jiffy Lube or anybody else won't take used gas.

MOW ED
03-10-2006, 07:39 AM
Aren't ya glad you asked!!!!:dizzy:

As stated, dump it in your trucks gas tank. Top off your tank and refill your cans.

Very simple. Good luck.

grass_cuttin_fool
03-10-2006, 08:07 AM
If I had any doubts about the gas, do as Mow Ed said, put it in your work truck and fill it up with fresh gas, then start with fresh 2 cycle mix

wayne

mmacsek
03-10-2006, 08:29 AM
Use it in your 2 cycle equipment. I guess I have been real lucky because Stihl oil ,amongst others, has stabilizer in it and I use with no problems for the past 6 years. I don't think I would use it in my truck for fear of "plugging" up injectors. I maintain my equipment but this stuff isn't as delicate as it's made out. Matt

Sammy
03-10-2006, 09:16 AM
Use it as weed killer. Just pour it out and buy some fresh.
Hmmmmmm, :hammerhead: ....... Now, Did you really mean that ?

Thirdpete
03-10-2006, 09:36 AM
yea watch out here come the hounds asking if you're licensed to apply weed killer.

Grassmechanic
03-10-2006, 10:13 AM
I always use stabilized fuel after 4-6 months or longer. Never any problems. Equipment runs fine. Been doing it ever since Sta-Bil came on the market. :drinkup:

jt5019
03-10-2006, 10:23 AM
I put Sta-bil in all of my equipment fuel tanks. It sits all winter and they start up fine in the spring.

steve45
03-10-2006, 10:46 AM
Because of the dramatic changes in our weather, I always run Sta-Bil in my watercraft and lawn equipment. I've gone almost a year with fuel in my boat with no ill effects.

One thing I did notice, however. I just pulled out my trimmer (Green Machine 3000 SS) to cut up some cactus. It hasn't been run since October. It ran like crap. Stalled about 20 times in 20 minutes, had to jack with the choke, etc. just to keep it running. I dumped out the fuel, SHOOK the gas can that I had just previously filled it from, and refilled it. Ran like a champ! I guess the synthetic oil I had mixed with the gasoline had separated. From now on, I'll make sure to shake the can before refilling--as well as the trimmer itself.

Remsen1
03-10-2006, 11:32 AM
Seems unfair to presume i have no knowledge of fuels and oils. The point i was trying to make is why would you gamble with 6 bucks worth of fuel? If unsure, pitch it and start fresh. I guess im not as conservative as some people when it comes to the operation and maintainance of my investments.

It is no gambe whatsoever, so why not use it. It will be fine! Geez! It's not unfair to presume you have no knowledge of fuels because you are demonstrating that you have no knowledge.

Hey, ya know what, you're motor oil, cleaning solvents, anti-freeze, lawn fert, trimmer line, spare belts, and mower blades all go bad too, so if you're going to throw them away you can send them to me. :dizzy:

mkwl
03-10-2006, 07:36 PM
Okay, well I decided to just start fresh, rather than risking it. One more thing though, I had bought a case of 2-cycle Stihl oil in the fall, the small containers are unopened, the oil should be fine to use in new mix, right?:rolleyes:

sheshovel
03-10-2006, 07:44 PM
Yes sweetheart the oil will be just fine.Just shake it up good and don't mix more that your going to use in a short time.

dcplace2004
03-10-2006, 08:25 PM
they will take care of it for you for free...at least that is what they do here in WA state...I think there is a limit per trip though...just dump the fuel and go spend a few bucks and remix...

befnme
03-10-2006, 08:28 PM
I don't think I would use it in my truck for fear of "plugging" up injectors. I maintain my equipment but this stuff isn't as delicate as it's made out. Matt

you have got to be kidding me !!!! ever heard of marvel mystery oil ? is is " OIL " that you put in your gas.....and also what is 2 oz. of oil goint to do to 20 gal of gas....geez .and as far as the stabilizer goes i have stabilizer in my gator that hasnt been ran since like september last year and i started it right up on wednesday for a job and it ran just fine...

DLCS
03-10-2006, 09:46 PM
Okay, well I decided to just start fresh, rather than risking it. One more thing though, I had bought a case of 2-cycle Stihl oil in the fall, the small containers are unopened, the oil should be fine to use in new mix, right?:rolleyes:


Absolutely not, why risk it with the 2 stroke oil either. I'll pm you my address and you can send it to me for disposal. Of course I'll have to charge you a small fee but its a small price to pay by not having to risk it.:rolleyes:

mmacsek
03-10-2006, 09:51 PM
you have got to be kidding me !!!! ever heard of marvel mystery oil ? is is " OIL " that you put in your gas.....and also what is 2 oz. of oil goint to do to 20 gal of gas....geez .and as far as the stabilizer goes i have stabilizer in my gator that hasnt been ran since like september last year and i started it right up on wednesday for a job and it ran just fine...
I heard of marvel mystery oil and we're not going to change each others minds and don't want to start a pi$$ing match. As far as stablizer , I think you misunderstood me or I didnt explain very well. Stabilizer is great I just don't add to the 2 cycle stuff because it has it in the oil. "Straight" gas gets stablizer at the last tank of the season and have zero problems next time starting. I don't know how much stabilizer is in the Stihl oil but never had a problem restarting. I hope the upcoming season is good to you. Have a good one! Matt

Richard Martin
03-11-2006, 07:27 AM
Absolutely not, why risk it with the 2 stroke oil either. I'll pm you my address and you can send it to me for disposal. Of course I'll have to charge you a small fee but its a small price to pay by not having to risk it.:rolleyes:

I agree... Don't take any chances. Just throw that old oil out. If Stabil can't keep gas safe to use for a few months what good is old oil?

Oldtimer
03-11-2006, 10:47 AM
Burn it in your truck or car.

Oldtimer

spoolinaround
03-12-2006, 09:17 PM
heck you can burn diesel in a weedwhip if it is warmed up already, old gas is not a problem for them if it is stabilized. I have 4 cans of outboard fuel from last fall that had stabil put in them.... guess what..... they will be the first 4 tanks ran through the otor when I go out in 2 weeks to catch some walleyes

Oldtimer
03-12-2006, 09:31 PM
Yes, you can definitely burn diesel in a 2 stroke but it is hard to stop the engine once it is started.

Oldtimer

sheshovel
03-12-2006, 09:37 PM
I store my equipment empty..I either run the gas/mix out of it or I drain it out and start new when the season begins.I aam probably the only person on this board that stores their stuff for winter this way but that's what I do.

mmacsek
03-12-2006, 10:01 PM
I store my equipment empty..I either run the gas/mix out of it or I drain it out and start new when the season begins.I aam probably the only person on this board that stores their stuff for winter this way but that's what I do.
Actually, The first year I did that and I had one he!! of a time starting everything the following spring. That is why I leave it in like I stated in an earlier post. With that being said if it works ,Why change. Matt

Grassmechanic
03-13-2006, 07:23 AM
I store my equipment empty..I either run the gas/mix out of it or I drain it out and start new when the season begins.I aam probably the only person on this board that stores their stuff for winter this way but that's what I do.
Leave them full of stabilized gas. You risk drying out the diaphrams in those small 2 cycle engines. Then you'll need carb re-build kits. I re-build 6-10 carbs each spring for friends, neighbors, etc. that have drained all the gas from their equipment.payup

On a side note, I have a Stihl 041 from the late 60's, early 70's. This saw only gets occassional use, once a year maybe. I've NEVER rebuilt the carb and the thing will start right up with a few pulls. It ALWAYS gets Sta-Bil in the gas.

jschu13
03-13-2006, 10:35 AM
I'd start with fresh fuel. No need to chance it.

METRO 36
03-13-2006, 01:48 PM
I had 2 gallons left over from last fall that had been stabilised and all i did was put three gallons in my five gallon can mix it and add the 2 gallons of the old stuff no problems. If i hadnt already been heading to the gas station, i would have just ran the two gallons anyway. I forgot to drain one of my trimmers last fall and i started it a couple of days ago no problem's but it had stabiliser in it.

geogunn
03-13-2006, 02:46 PM
I think this stabilized vs. non-stabilized argument is silly.

for many years, like about 20, I have kept unstabilized mixed fuel through the end of fall and into the spring for the first use and never had a problem one.

and this year is no different as I ran about a half gallon of last falls mixed fuel through my STIHL chain saw yesterday.

the saw sucked it down like it was the best fuel I ever mixed. I wish I had more old mixed fuel for my trimmer.

GEO :waving:

bwilder10h
03-14-2006, 04:29 PM
I love the comments about burning it in your truck.

"No I won't run a couple of tanks of four month old fuel in my $300 trimmer, but I'll dump it in the tank of my $30,000 truck"



:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Oldtimer
03-14-2006, 04:46 PM
I love the comments about burning it in your truck.

"No I won't run a couple of tanks of four month old fuel in my $300 trimmer, but I'll dump it in the tank of my $30,000 truck"


Can you still buy a truck for 30k?


Oldtimer

Jpocket
03-14-2006, 05:46 PM
Clearly some of you guys don't know that Gas doesn't "Just go bad" Fuel doesn't just become unusable after 3 months of sitting. almost anything will run on 3 month old gas, it's not even considered stale at this point. Now if you add a stabilizer you have absolutley nothing to worry about, if theres no contaminates in the fuel.

we've had boats, and motor homes, hotrods sit ALL winter, and crank in seconds in the spring.

This is the 1st year i've added stabilizer to my equipment just for the extra security, but I have never had a problem in the past, nor has anyone I know

Just as proof my Little wonder Wheel Blower sits ALL summer until October and it cranks up after 2 or 3 pulls NO STABLIZER

NNJLandman
03-14-2006, 06:11 PM
Id use it, geez with gas prices today, plus if its been stabilized there shouldnt be any problem with it. During the winter I never know when im going to use the gas so i always throw some stablizer in it.

Jeff

steve45
03-15-2006, 09:10 AM
I use the Sta-Bil because I THINK it reduces gum & deposits in the carbs, not because the old gas won't burn.

Nes-Tech
03-15-2006, 09:45 AM
No one has mentioned if the staorage tank was sealed or not. There is a huge difference in how long the fuel will last if it is opened to the atmosphere or not. Many people just leave the pour spout on their "Gerry can" and the gas evaporates rapdily.

Oldtimer
03-15-2006, 10:11 AM
Volatility

Volatility describes a gasoline's tendency to form vapors. Liquid gasoline does not burn; only gasoline vapor burns. To start a cold engine, enough low boiling components ("light ends") must vaporize at the engine temperature to form a combustible vapor-air mixture.

This is one reason that the volatility of gasoline is tailored for the range of temperatures expected in the locality where is it sold. "Winter gasoline" has a higher volatility for easy starting in cold weather. "Summer gasoline" has a lower volatility because hydrocarbon vapor in the atmosphere contributes to smog formation.

Evaporation

The gasoline light ends needed for easy starting have the same tendency to vaporize in storage as they do in an engine. If the storage container is not tightly sealed, some of the light ends gradually will be lost. Too great a loss decreases the gasoline's ability to start an engine.

Evaporation of gasoline from a vented fuel tank or a can with a loose cap would be minimal if the temperature of the container were constant. But daily temperature changes cause the temperature of the container to cycle. The heating portion of the cycle raises the pressure of the gas (gasoline vapor and air) above the liquid gasoline which, in turn, drives some of the vapor-air mixture out of the container. The succeeding cooling cycle lowers the pressure of the gas, drawing fresh air into the container. Light ends evaporate from the liquid gasoline to saturate the new air. The daily repetition of this cycle gradually pumps light ends out of the container.

The cycle also brings air and water vapor into the container, especially during periods of high humidity. The oxygen in the air contributes to gum formation. (See Oxidation section.) And the water vapor, if it condenses during the cooling cycle, contaminates the gasoline with liquid water.

A larger volume of gas will be pumped in and out of the container when the air space above the liquid fuel is larger and when the daily temperature change is larger. Consequently, keeping the container almost full of gasoline and controlling the temperature fluctuations will minimize the loss of light ends, the exposure of the gasoline to air, and the contamination of the gasoline with water.

Oxidation

Except for any added oxygenates, gasoline is made up almost entirely of hydrocarbons–molecules constructed from the building blocks of elemental carbon and hydrogen. Hydrocarbons, as a class, are chemically stable molecules.

However, there are types of hydrocarbons (olefins and diolefins) that can combine slowly with the oxygen in the air ("oxidize") at ambient temperatures. The products of the reaction are larger molecules, collectively called "gum."

The gum-forming reactions become faster as the temperature of the gasoline increases. This is why this bulletin recommends controlling the temperature of stored gasoline.

Most gasolines contain negligible amounts of gum when they are manufactured, and most contain special chemicals ("stabilizers") to ****** gum formation. It is the stabilizers that make it possible to store Chevron gasolines for a year when the conditions are good.

Soluble Gum

The gum formed by oxidation is usually soluble in gasoline. However, it remains behind as a sticky residue when the gasoline evaporates. Since gasoline begins to evaporate in the carburetor of a carbureted engine or in the injector of a fuel-injected engine, a gasoline containing soluble gum may leave a deposit on these parts and on the intake valves. These deposits will be in addition to the deposits normally formed by a gum-free gasoline — a formation triggered by the elevated engine temperatures.

Modern engines are designed to run best when vital engine parts are clean. Carburetor and fuel injector deposits can cause hesitation and stumbling on acceleration, lower fuel economy, lower power output, and higher emissions of hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide. Excessive intake valve deposits can cause many of the same performance problems, plus higher emissions of hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, and nitrogen oxides.

Because the Federal Environmental Protection Agency recognizes that fuel system deposits increase emissions, they require all gasolines to contain a deposit-control additive. All deposit-control additives keep deposits from forming; the best ones clean up deposits formed by lower-quality gasolines.

If the gasoline contains a lot of soluble gum, the normal level of deposit-control additive may not be sufficient. This is why Chevron recommends treating a tank of gasoline with an extra dose of deposit-control additive if a vehicle displays driveability problems after being stored. (Note: Chevron does not recommend adding a deposit-control additive to the fuel for a two-stroke-cycle engine.) The gum-forming reactions become faster as the temperature of the gasoline increases.

Insoluble Gum

Severe oxidation of gasoline may produce insoluble, as well as soluble, gum. The insoluble gum will take the form of brown or black particles which float in the gasoline or settle to the bottom of the container.

When an engine is fueled with gasoline containing insoluble gum, the fuel filter will remove the gum. If the engine has an in-tank fuel pump, the screen on the pump's feed also may capture some of the gum. However, these devices can become plugged if the gasoline contains too much insoluble gum. This will cause the engine to lose power or stall because it is starved for fuel. Adding a deposit-control additive will not keep insoluble gum from plugging filters and screens.

Other Issues

Storage, including storage involving gum formation, does not change the bulk properties and most of the performance characteristics of gasoline (excluding the characteristics affected by the gum itself). For example, storage does not change a gasoline's anti-knock index (octane) or energy content. However, these properties will change if the storage is accompanied by evaporative loss. The evaporation of light ends decreases a gasoline's antiknock index and increases its energy content.

Federal and California reformulated gasolines will survive storage as well or better than conventional gasolines. The regulations require reformulated gasolines to have less light ends and less olefins (federal, later; California, now) than conventional gasolines. As explained above, it is the oxidation of olefins that leads to gum formation. Reformulated gasolines also contain oxygenates. The common oxygenates are stable molecules that do not form gums.