Slopes

[A CUT ABOVE]

In the post about advantages between wb's and ztr's, someone said he could mow a 60 or 70 degree slope with a ztr. WRONG!!!
I did see this the other day. I went to Beaufort, S.C. to hydroseed a pond for a guy. When I got there, he was mowing the banks of an adjacent pond with a John Deere ztr. Now I don't know how many degrees were in the slope or anything, but I do know it looked the same as the slope I was hydroseeding and you had to lean up hill just walk the slope. This guy had a truck up on the hill with one end of a logging chain hooked to it. The other end of the chain was hooked to the ztr about halfway down the slope. The ztr was running with the up hill side tires just hitting the ground every few feet, but they did get the slope cut. Looked as good as if they had tried to do it with weed eaters. Anyone else seen anything like this before?

[mdb landscaping]

sounds like it would beat up on the equipment pretty good. it would be easier to hook two chains to a 21 inch mower and go back and forth id think.

[Charles]

That sounds crazy. That wasnt cooter up in that truck wuz it? Bo and luke running the ztr?

[Eric ELM]

That was Joshua that posted that post and this is what he said. "i can cut any hill a walk behind can, about 65 or 70 degrees with no problem."

We had one member say he could cut a 85 degree slope. I told him it wasn't a slope, that is an almost straight up cliff. Basically it is a wall that is leaning slightly. :)

[Pauls Mowing]

Last week I cut an acre for a guy, all off it on a 45*. Thats all I want to tackle. Did it with my DR brush mower, glad to get the brush head off and the mower head on.

Paul

[cos]

I thought that only batman and the space shuttle could go vertical.

[Mark]

Eric that post of yours just about put me on the floor, I read that an was laughing so hard it was hurting my stomach. I read his post also that said he could cut as 65 to 70 degrees. Well i sure got a kick out of this one. Marks Mowing Service

[grassyfras]

shows how inteligent some people are

[joshua]

for all you guys that don't believe me, that good for you because you don't think i can, but your wrong, i do the lawn every 4 days and every 4 days i cut it like that. when i get my digital camara i will have my worker take a picture of me cutting it, then you all can go pound salt.

you're lucky i'm not in your area or you would be losing your customers to me. thats all that needs to be said.

its not crazy to cut something like that if your good enough. and i must be if i cut the yard every 4 days vertical on a 65 or 70 degree slope. last week i cut it at a diagonal. if you don't believe don't its your choise but i'm not telling a lie, just the truth.

[accuratelawn]

Did you take Geometry in school Josh??
65-70 NO **cking way.

[joshua]

better yet for all you guys that call me a lair, i just checked my route for tommorrow and i have to cut that property, so i will have pictures tommorrow of me cutting the slope. email me and i will send you them unless eric helps me upload them on here some how. either way if you want to laugh your stomach off MARK, give me your email addresse and anyone else and i will prove you wrong with pictues.

[CSRA Landscaping]

... but it's the foot or so before the 0º slope begins.

[1MajorTom]

Quote: i will prove you wrong with pictues

Here's the thing with posting something like that. You have to follow thru with what you said, because people will want to see those pictures. So it's sorta like, if you make up an excuse now as to why you can't get the pictures, it will just lead to more doubt.

I'm sure Eric would be more than happy to help you post your pictures so everyone can see. :)

[joshua]

Originally posted by 1MajorTom
Quote: i will prove you wrong with pictues

Here's the thing with posting something like that. You have to follow thru with what you said, because people will want to see those pictures. So it's sorta like, if you make up an excuse now as to why you can't get the pictures, it will just lead to more doubt.

I'm sure Eric would be more than happy to help you post your pictures so everyone can see. :)



i'm not worried, i will have pictures tommorrow night. i will prove them wrong, i'm not worrying, about the pictures, i'm worried that the camara won't be ready by tommorrow night, but after i cut it at 1 i am going to take it to get devoleped.

jodi, i just want to say that i'm not going off on you or being mean, just incase you read this and think i am. []

so any guy that wants to see these pics talk to eric to help me get them on lawnsite. they will be on around 11:30 tommorrow night.

[Edited by joshua on 04-25-2001 at 11:56 PM]

[Esby]

I can't wait to see these pics!!! Get fired up, I'm gonna venture onto some slopes and see what I can do, only after I see these pictures though! Hey, lets just wait and see though, maybe he's got some merit to what he says. I'm not going to judge until these pics show up with him mowing on the slope, and its a reasonable picture to see the angle of the groud, please, lets not make it a real close up, give us a couple pics so we can see!

[oneEXMARKfan]

I am planning on getting a ZTR after some money flows in a few months (Lazer or a Chopper) I have only used a WB, so as a ZTR newbie, what would be the MAX. degrees I should "learn" on, and what are the MAX. that other's here will use there's on? (just curious....never liked hills anyway...never been a "risk taker")

[Eric ELM]

Start out on a 30 degree slope max for learning and after you have it down pat, the max you will ever mow with the Lazer or Chopper is 40 to 45 degrees and that is the limit. Anything steeper than 40 degrees, be very careful and remember, if it's over 45 degrees, stay off of it with a ZTR.

[oneEXMARKfan]

I'll keep that in mind......(always felt alittle leary on hills.......so I don't think I'll have to worry about doing any steeper than that) [I imagaine a 30 degree would feel like a 70 to me].....BIG CHICKEN...(But I always heard it's only people that know how to swim that drowned..non-swimmers don't get in the water)

[KirbysLawn]

Originally posted by joshua
better yet for all you guys that call me a lair...... its not crazy to cut something like that if your good enough. and i must be if i cut the yard every 4 days vertical on a 65 or 70 degree slope. last week i cut it at a diagonal. if you don't believe don't its your choise but i'm not telling a lie, just the truth.

We are not calling you a liar, I'm just not sure you really have a good understanding of what a 70 degree angle is. I posted this before but I'm not sure if you saw it, however below on the left is a 58 degree slope and you say you mow slopes 12 degrees steeper than this with a ZTR? At the left bottom is a 88 degree angle (which is close to the angle you say you mow, as you can see it's almost a verticle wall, so therefore no, we do not agree that this is possible without the use of ropes and harnesses. Hope you have good life insurance if you really do, MTV has a show you might be able to get on.

Personally I don't think you can even WALK safely on a 70 degree slope.

http://www.mathleague.com/help/geometry/IMG00039.GIF

http://www.mathleague.com/help/geometry/IMG00036.GIF

[Edited by KirbysLawn on 04-26-2001 at 12:58 AM]

[Mr.Ziffel]

Slope can be expressed in different ways, as degrees, percent of slope, grade and pitch. Eric, I'm surprised to hear you say a Z will mow a 40-45 degree slope after you told Joshua the other day that that's a 12/12 pitch. This equals a 100 percent slope, in other words, one foot up for every one foot sideways. Anyone who has ever worked on a 12/12 pitch roof knows that you CANNOT stand on one, you must work off scaffold or roof jacks.

Anyone who's ever driven in the mountains has seen the signs STEEP GRADE AHEAD - 6 PERCENT GRADE. That's about equal to the beginners slope at a ski area. More difficult runs are from about 30 percent which is 13 degrees up to about 50 percent. Of course there are some portions of runs which are quite a bit steeper than this but this is an overall measurement of the total rise of the mountain divided by the length of the ski run.

Think about it, a 45 degree [100%] slope you can't even stand on, much less mow. A 4/12 pitch roof is plenty steep to walk on and is about a 33percent grade or 15 degrees and a 6/12 pitch roof which is tough to walk on [but it can be done] is 22.5 degrees. I'm certainly not saying you guys aren't mowing steep spots, but just realize that on a true 45 degree slope, if you could stand straight up on it you'd be able to touch the ground with your elbow without leaning over.

On some expert slopes at Sun Valley ski area, they winch the snowcats down the face of the run to groom them because if the cat tried to groom it unattached it'd just slide to the bottom and those slopes are nowhere near 45 degrees. I'm no geometry whiz but I did misspend some of my youth in the mountains sliding downhill and I can tell you that the steepest slopes ever skiied are in France at about 53 degrees which is dang near vertical and it certainly wasn't at a ski area and it certainly wasn't me who did it.
Will

[oneEXMARKfan]

Never thought about a 4/12 being steep (much less plenty steep to walk on) I always heard that you couldn't use roll roofing on anything less than a 3/12 or it would leak (because it's so flat) but I MUST agree that a 12/12 is unwalkable (IMHO a 10/12 is too steep without roof jacks) BUT, it has been along time since I was on one, and the memory fades along with this old age (but I'll never forget a 12/12 looking like a vertical wall......almost..lol)

[mowerconsultant]

Joshua,
I represent Hustler Turf Equipment, and we sell one of the leading slope cutting units in the world.
The hustler 6400
This unit is rated to cut 40 degree slopes all day long.
This unit will cut a steeper slope but it gets very hairy up on the top level of a very large landfill, or roadside or damm...you get the idea
I will be in cleveland THIS AFTERNOON and all day FRIDAY doing demo work with this unit.
When we go to demo sites we measure the slope with a slope meter, just so the customer knows what our units will SAFELY do.
If you would like to see what a 45 or 50 degree hill will look like let me know.
E-mail me @ hustler@twcny.rr.com and I will tell you where to meet us.
There is no way you are cutting 65 or 70 degree slopes
If you think you are go to a contractor supply house buy a slope meter and attach it to a 6 foot long 2X4 and take a pic of the reading on the slope meter on this hill.
Looking forward to seeing those pics !!!!!
Pj

[Craig Turf Management]

There is NO piece of turf or any number of dollars that are worth injuring myself or my equipment. On a slope that steep, I would mow it the best and safest way that I could, if I could even if I had to use a trimmer. Then I would spray that bad boy with growth regulator. If I couldn't mow it safely, I would walk and refer the client to joshua.
Thanks Kirby for the geometry lesson. It's been a long time. Bill Craig

[Charles]

You may be able to do a steep slope with a ztr but one day it will slip and aim downhill and thats all she wrote. Is it worth the risking life and limb and damaging equipment? Not if you have half a brain it isnt.

[Esby]

Anyone can mow down a 90 degree slope, its just stopping at the bottom that presents the problems. Of course getting back up it, well, it will never happen.

[scottb]

I cant walk on one that steep much less mow it with my walkbehind. And there is no way I would attempt it on a ztr. When I was younger and much dumber we tried a few close to 70 degrees on motocycles. Yes they were to steep to walk on thats why my bike stayed tore up. As for Joshua I still have my Helmet and Chest protector if he needs to borrow them.
Some of you Nascar fans may know but for example the banked turns at Daytona,Charlotte(Lowes)and Tallegda you have to maintain a certain speed to stay on them or down you come. So an angle cut on a 70 degree slope if you can more power to ya but your cray for doing it.
Just my 23 cents worth.

[A CUT ABOVE]

I didn't mean for this post to get people argueing with one another. I just wondered if any of you guys had ever seen anything like this before. The guy that was doing the cutting manages a large plantation with several ponds on it. He said this was the way they mow all of their ponds. He offered to let me try, but I told him NO THANKS!!!!!!!!!

[jeffyr]

SHOW ME THE JPEGS !!!!

[cos]

I cut a slope on about a 40 degree slope (tops) at a 45 degree angle. Not knowing better, I sttarted to slip and slide. Like it was said, it just aint worth life and limb and loss of equipment.

[joshua]

the pics are in i have to run to afew new houses then i will check again to see if erics on to post them but i'll send them to him so he can for now.
after relooking the slope i would have to say its around 58 degrees. honest truth.

[cos]

I have to see this. I hope you tilted the camera an extra couple degrees for trickery.

[kutnkru]

Whats this ,,, EVIL KINEIVEL(sp) does lawn care ????

Not this ole boy -LOL
Kris

[Mid Rivers]

I have a place that I take care of that has a slope (in a few places) of around 90 degrees. They are called washouts and holes, but my ZTR goes right over the top of them. There are even a couple places where there is a 70 degree slope a couple feet long and about 2 feet wide.

OH well, back to learning, but this humorous stuff is a good break and good for the tension;)

Where are the pictures?

[John DiMartino]

Our 1 st green is elevated on 3 sides,at about a 45 degree angle,we mow it with our 4x4 steiner,mow up,back down,all around it.it will go right up it,even in the morning dew,you could stand on it,unless its dry to trim it.

[CSRA Landscaping]

Where are the pics?

[joshua]

i just got done sendng them to kirby.

[KirbysLawn]

Well, here they are....flame nicely....

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=681893&a=4967148&p=47349229
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=681893&a=4967148&p=47349231
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=681893&a=4967148&p=47349234
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=681893&a=4967148&p=47349236

[65hoss]

Thats what all this talk has been about? Thats not much of a slope.

[joshua]

sorry, it doesn't look like what i said to be around 65 degrees, but i will get a picture of the side of it so all you boys can get a true geuss of your own. take a protractor and put it in the middle of the oak and see what angle you come up with, the hill i'm on is about 2.5 steeper in some spots. but you judge

[mowerconsultant]

Wheres the BEEF ??? Oh I mean slope ???
lets start taking guesses what the real slope degree is here...

[Paradise Yard Service]

this is intresting. most extreme skiers have much difficulty with stuff in the 70 degree range. look at some of the boys going off some of them coluiers/cornices on the videos. i know i'm posting from hawaii (while eating so typing not good. but im from snow country olean new york, lisbon new hampshire and lovev hot dog skiing so i know my subject. its hard to imagine such working conditions w several hundred pounds of lawn equip at speed doing this kind of action. pics tell a thousand words.

aloha
p.y.s.

[David Gretzmier]

This has been amazing reading. I especially love the post with the angles. Joshua- I enjoy your posts, and look forward to seeing the slope in the pics. for the record, I probable max out at 30 degrees. It seems like mowers today are like jet ski's. I used to be able to push them to the max all the time, but now the machinery is better than my nerve! Dave

[David Gretzmier]

whoa- the pictures just appeared. I'm thinking maybe 25-35 degrees max. Anyone else? Dave

[Richard Martin]

Now that all of the controversy is over regarding 75 degree slopes I have a question for you. How come you don't ride all the way to the bottom of the "hill" and make your turn on the road? It would make your stripes look a lot better.

[TJLC]

I guess when you are actually on a slope it seems a lot steeper than if you are just looking at it. I need to get him to come down and mow my slopes for me! I wonder if he has good medical ins.LOL Good luck to you Joshua and be careful.

[jeffyr]

Please include a point of reference, like the lightpost or something else that is straight.

70 degrees..Pffff.


Did you know that the human head weighs 8 pounds ?


jeffyr

[cos]

30 degrees tops. Sorry bud don't mean to beleager you but they aren't 60-70 degree slopes. The lines are nice and straight though.

[Eric ELM]

Pictures are worth a thousand words. Sometimes they don't capture what you are trying to capture, but that looks like a 30 degree incline at the most.

[FastEddie]

You need to take the picture from the side and use the lamp post as a vertical reference (as long as the lamppost is not leaning and is perfectly vertical). Then I can measure the slope angle right on the screen with my protractor.
From the pictures your slope looks to be 25-30 degrees at most. Peace of cake to mow even sideways with my Wright Stander and even easier with my Sentar.

[Esby]

Well, it looks like joshua was right. 70 degree slopes can be mowed. 70 degrees from the normal, for all you non-physics people, that means 70 degrees from straight up direction(verticle). Sure this makes a 30 degree angle from the ground, but who's keeping track these days. Great entertainment! The old Lazer does stripe nicely though. Good luck

[Charles]

The pics are in omg! Joshua u so FOS.
I have one yard and I do it with a tractor belly mower. Sometimes I go up and down and some times I go sideways. Going sideways the right rear tire will slightly come off the ground. Now thats a steep slope. Cannot and would not be crazy enough to do it with my lazer. At the bottom is a bunch of trees and the lake.

[jrebeiro]

I am a snowboarder and have tried to take numerous pics showing the slopes I can handle... alot of them are pretty steep yet in pictures look sorta flat... so who knows... what would help would be a 4 foot level and a zoom pic showing the level "level" and the steepness of the slope.

[cos]

60-70 degree slopes aren't even close to that. Like I said, only batman and the space shuttle can go vertical.

[SMB]

I can mow a 180 degree slope easy! ;)












(180 degree slope is flat, or a straight line)

[Ssouth]

Do several of these types of properities that are in the pics and don't think twice about it. Maybe next week I can post pictures of slopes we do that are borderline mow/weedeat.

[lee b]

I wish I had a digital camera to show you some of the slopes on one of my industrial accounts. Some of them are to steep to walk on, and no we don't try to mow those with anything but a pushmower on the end of a rope. But we do mow some that are much steeper than those in the pictures and yes it gets very scary and it is dangerous. I mow these with my tractor mower, because if it rolls at least I can get off alot easier than I could on the ztr. Sometimes my wife helps me and she refuses to watch me mow these areas. But I will say you're doing a nice job mowing in your pictures.

[Eric ELM]

Lee, you can get a digital camera pretty cheap now. I've seen them for around $100. For web use, you just need low resolution to make pictures load faster. It will save you a lot of film buying and processing by getting one.

[joshua]

someone asked why i don't go all the way down and turn around on the drive, great question, thats because their is a another slope about 4 feet long, with a foot drop and doesn't match the driveway.

i will take a pic of the hill from the side view and then you boys can read just what you think it is, its over 30 and if it isn't i'll come and cut all your yards for nothing. but if it is all you boys that tried to dig into me and mess with me well, you can go pound salt.

[KirbysLawn]

Well, this is a great example why it best not to argue with people who've been in the business longer than you've been alive.

Take it easy Joshua, what you expect?

[mowerconsultant]

Originally posted by joshua
i will take a pic of the hill from the side view and then you boys can read just what you think it is, its over 30 and if it isn't i'll come and cut all your yards for nothing. but if it is all you boys that tried to dig into me and mess with me well, you can go pound salt.
Joshua, I am taveling through your area of service next tuesday and friday. I would be more than happy to bring along a slope meter and give the official degree reading for you and all lawnsite members.
I will bring my digital camera also, and post pics to lawnsite that night.
E-mail me @ hustler@twcny.rr.com if your interested.
Pj
P.S. My lawn is in Syracuse N.Y. So you may wanna fuel that truck up all the way.

[KD'sLawns]

Eric, I bet you were laughing so hard that it was almost impossible to get these loaded!!!!!!!!!!

[TJLC]

Hey, I have an 18-19 yr old son. I know how they can be. LOL. Joshua, guys here are just trying to help out. You have to understand how long some of these guys have been doing this work. They have been there and done that. We are all here to help one another, right?

[jeffyr]

You can pick up an angle meter for under $10 at sears or any constuction tool store.

The proof is in the puddin.....post up them picks !

[kutnkru]

Do all of you out there who use those riders overlap as much as is shown in the first pic where the front caster is clearly into the tread of the prior cut??

I just use walk behind hydros and was wondering if you guys have to align your machines up diffrently when cutting??

We usually just have the edge of the deck next to the previous row that was cut, and the caster does not overlap.

Thanks for the help in advance-
Kris

[Eric ELM]

Kris, no you don't have to overlap that much. I overlap maybe 1" when I mow. I also noticed he overlaps way to much, but maybe he isn't used to that mower yet. I have noticed other guys overlapping a whole wheels distance like that, but I'm not sure why.

[joshua]

i only over lap on that hill, it would be stupid to waste that extra 4 inches on that side of the deck.

i know all you guys are trying to help out and i appreciate all of it.

[plow kid]

If bullschitt was music, you would be a brass band.

Also,it's 25 tops, maybe 30, I hope you don't have a v-8, gas is getting expensive:D

Originally posted by joshua
i will take a pic of the hill from the side view and then you boys can read just what you think it is, its over 30 and if it isn't i'll come and cut all your yards for nothing.

[awm]

as pappy use to say after wed been scrapping.
lets get back to work boys the funs over.