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AWJ Services
03-13-2006, 10:44 PM
Have a chance too buy a 2005 John Deere 332 with 84 inch grapple ,smooth bucket and a 18 foot 2 7k axle trailer.

The machine has ac-heat,gel filled tires,not high flow and 270 hours.

Everything for 45k.

What are everyones opinions?

Tigerotor77W
03-13-2006, 11:42 PM
It's a good deal, but I don't know whether you'd need that big a machine.

What do you need it for?

thepawnshop
03-14-2006, 12:23 AM
Sometimes it isn't about "need", it's about "want". I'm not sure it is a great deal, though. It's a good deal, perhaps not great.

AWJ Services
03-14-2006, 07:39 AM
The Trailer new around here is over 3000 dollars.
The Grapple is 4000 dollars.
The skid Steer new was 52 k.
It has the optional chrome pipe also.LOL that is a 1200 dollar option.
The gel filled tires are like 2 grand.

The machine is really big thats for sure.
I have a tractor that pretty much will serve the purpose of a skid steer up too like a S185 size so if I purchase a skid steer it needs to be an asset .
I also need something that will carry at least 3500 pounds safely.

I tried too find some machines like it for sale but there are not many around for sale.
I was thinking of buying it because it was a good deal.
Thanks guys for your comments .

Tigerotor77W
03-14-2006, 09:12 AM
AWJ Services, I can't tell you what to buy and what not to buy. If you're dead-set on the 332, so be it. However, from a safety standpoint, you're not going to get me to budge from saying that a skid-steer's rated operating load is the maximum load you should lift -- with a bucket. I don't even want to say that 3,500 lbs is within the operating envelope of the 332, because if something happens, you'll be at fault for lifting more than 3,200 pounds.

That being said, it's your choice to choose the best machine for your operation. Doug has experience with the 300s and he's a better source for the information you're trying to get.

AWJ Services
03-14-2006, 10:05 AM
I was not implying that I thought this machine was 100% safe at those weights just that I know that it is capable of doing this under the correct conditions.

Take a smaller skidsteer and it is not feasible too even try it.

That is my reason for considering this machine.

As I said it has too be an asset.

I really prefer a track machine .
Just wondering what some people thought about it.

Thanks

imjustdave
03-14-2006, 08:57 PM
Well I know that I really can't compare the CT 332 to the 332 tire machine, but I do love that fact that my CT 332 has some serious lifting capacity, I loaded 1.51 tons into the back of a dump truck the other day and it was easy and didn't have any issues only later did I find out that the stump weighed so much. So far 400+ Hrs I have been happy with my JD, and the cab option is really nice,

issues to-date

Wiper motor died
Heater control for cab heating motor died....
1 bad hydraulic ram on grapple bucket

All under warranty


Just a FYI there is a service recall on the injector pumps for that model 7 hr shop time and should be free.

bobcatboy
03-14-2006, 09:07 PM
imjustdave, what kind of work do you get into besides dirt work. I have been thinking about a track machine for a long time. Yhe decision has been hard for me because I have not been able to talk to people up close and personal about it. You know for the money it is a big investment and dont want to make the wrong decision

imjustdave
03-15-2006, 12:40 PM
Well im not totaly sure to be honest. I originally bought the machine to go down and work on the huricain clean up in New Orleans. I got a little tired of all the BS, people, and trash so Im home now. I'm looking into land clearing IE not a total clear everythig off but more of a clean up, and landscaping, but that is a hard market with lots of competion. Field mowing, Post holes, etc. Im thinking a mini -ex is in my future to be honest. I may even sell off my skid and just use a mini - ex but i'm not in a hurry to do that.

7 IRON
03-15-2006, 05:45 PM
Have a chance too buy a 2005 John Deere 332 with 84 inch grapple ,smooth bucket and a 18 foot 2 7k axle trailer.

The machine has ac-heat,gel filled tires,not high flow and 270 hours.

Everything for 45k.

What are everyones opinions?



Does It Have A Two-Speed,Hand Or Foot Control?

AWJ Services
03-18-2006, 10:33 PM
Does It Have A Two-Speed,Hand Or Foot Control?

The bucket is foot control and I do not think it is 2 speed.

The Yard Barber, Inc.
03-19-2006, 08:49 AM
just found a new one on ebay for $32,795 buy it now

AWJ Services
03-19-2006, 11:08 AM
The same unit around here cannot be bought anywhere near 32 k.

I guess the dealers here are making quite a fair profit.

I actually called Takeuchi and they are sending me a TL 140 for demo.
Already got the financing out of the way so we will see whats next.

Dirty Water
03-19-2006, 01:27 PM
I am refusing to even entertain a Deere machine after watching those "promotional" videos that Xing posted.

Deere still insists on useing Yank-em sticks, and actually refers to "Joystick/pilot" controls as inferior in their videos, despite the entire industry moving to them.

Deere is way behind the times in their technology.

thepawnshop
03-19-2006, 08:41 PM
Dirty, I kinda like those "yank-em" sticks....but then again, that is all I have ever used. Whenever I get into a machine with pilot controls, it is ugly! I am all over the place! I do agree with you about them needing to get with the times, though. Of course most of the folks on here know that I am a JD fanboy at heart, I still would like to see some of the innovative ideas everuone else is using on some of the Deere equipment. I do know how to get new stuff on a piece of Deere equipmnet...let me buy a piece, and within months, something better will come out!

7 IRON
03-19-2006, 09:31 PM
Deere is way behind the times in their technology.[/QUOTE]



I Have Some Disagreement With That Statement,But I Do At Times Feel
Deere Is Not a Leader Like They Used To Be!They Tend To Watch The Market
And When Another Company Has Success With A Product,They Try To Copy
Within Reason The Product And Ride The Wave.I Wish They Would Truly Go
Back To When They Came Out With New(Dependable) Products First.

ksss
03-19-2006, 10:11 PM
I am not sure when Deere was ever a leader. If your refering to skid steers it certainly has never been the case. They used NH skid steers for years until the original 200 series. Nothing new with its design just a freshing of the NH design. Their quality in the initial series and series two is legendary (unfortunately not in a positive way). The mini ex has always been a Hitachi. Deere backhoes have always done well but I don't know that they have lead anything but it is a good product. The only area that Deere has lead the market was in their small to midsize dozer market. They are have been true leaders in that area. I doubt you will see Deere pickup up any substantial market share with its current 300 series. There are still issues like probably the most difficult control system to use of a major manufacturer. The lift system which Deere proclaims is so great seems to wear rather quickly.

Tigerotor77W
03-20-2006, 12:18 PM
I doubt you will see Deere pickup up any substantial market share with its current 300 series.

Of the entire argument, I picked one statement I'm somewhat unsure about, so don't take this as an attack of your opinion. I'd rather agree with it. :D

Deere claims that its SSLs have picked up quite a bit of market share and that "they are closing in on the #2 position at an extremely fast pace." That quote came directly from a Compact Equipment citation of one of the marketing guys for Deere. While I don't see Deere being #2 (certainly not nationwide; it would have to displace Cat and CNH to do that!) this year or next, its product line is simply, "We'll give you all the power you need to get stuff done." Some contractors might like that -- and for people using NH, going ahead and switching over to Deere isn't such a bad idea.

ksss
03-20-2006, 12:51 PM
I read that same article. I would like to see the numbers personally. NH will have pilots along with CASE machines soon (although not soon enough). Deere really needs to either use servos or go pilots IMHO. Deere may shoot to the number two spot I would be very suprised but you never know.

Construct'O
03-20-2006, 10:43 PM
Deere CTL 332 has hand controls (option) and are servo.CTL 322 are not servo tho.

ksss
03-20-2006, 10:52 PM
I guess they put servos in the largest machine to aid in steering ease. But why not put them in all the machines? Certainly it would make them much easier and less fatiguing to run. The amount of feedback in the controls is unacceptable in my opinion.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-21-2006, 09:13 PM
It is all about price......although smaller 300 series steering are much better than 200 series.....325's and up have servos which are excellent compared to old manual units....I sell alot of 325's. 317 and 320 not that bad.

ksss
03-22-2006, 02:53 AM
I think only someone that does not spend a lot of time in one can say that. No offense meant. The continous fighting with the sticks is fatiguing. Deere is not the only one. The Bobcats with AHC also have this problem. The tracked units are worse in my opinion than the wheeled. Deere's long wheel base exaggerates the problem. If your building a skid steer like the Deere to me servos across the board would be a requirement.

jd270
03-22-2006, 09:37 PM
my 270 dosent wear me out at all even after 8 hr days heck my 9 year old daughter can drive it fine she has no problem at all

JDSKIDSTEER
03-22-2006, 10:23 PM
my 270 dosent wear me out at all even after 8 hr days heck my 9 year old daughter can drive it fine she has no problem at all
Most have driven Bobcats and New Holland with same style controls or old 240's and 250's and not tried the 300 series. Major difference. True 200 series was not that Bad. I have traded in several Case and actual liked their controls after I got used to them. They were a little sensitive until I became use to them. I like to bring other brands home and use when I trade them in. Helps me to make accurate comparisons when up against them on demos. I am probably the only salesman that has his own testing ground at home. If you think the 270 steers good you will love 325.......like having power steering.......smooth yet not real sensitive like case...although our case style hand controls to operate bucket and boom leave a lot to be desired.

thepawnshop
03-22-2006, 11:51 PM
I have a loaner 325 while my 322 is getting serviced and I honestly don't feel a difference in the sticks...should I?

JDSKIDSTEER
03-23-2006, 06:15 AM
I have a loaner 325 while my 322 is getting serviced and I honestly don't feel a difference in the sticks...should I?

Some do, but they really have improved the manual sticks on 317,320 and ct322's and I honestly have not had a complaint about fatigue and I sold about 40 small units and and 35 large units since they they came out with them.In our area 70% sales are still foot peddle controls so CAT has to fight the battle of conversion. Tachs are new in our area and are gathering dust on my neighbors lot and I stay out of track units.....selling as they come off the truck. God is good to me. 325 is my favorite machine for the price. I am not big on tracks......I guess since I am last guy on block to get them and I heard people complain that own cats and bobcats for years. I always make sure my customers know all the cons involved and stress proper operation and maintenance is the key to a track unit. They are awesome machines but when most customers do not take care of there units like they are suppose to they are not going have the wear life they expect. I have been watching owners of other brands for years. They do not keep their tracks cleaned out and do not keep their tracks adjusted properly. When they have problems they blame the manufacturer. I have heard salesman of other brands tell me they are glad I get to hear all the excuses and complaints now. So far I have sold 23 track units and no complaints yes. I am very interested in seeing how long tracks will last. Our area is terrible on track life. Bobcat and Cats are getting 800 to 1200 hours track life in this grey rocky clay and red dirt. I drove a test unit CT322 in desert last spring that had 1400 hrs on it and tracks looked good. Deere said we got 25% moore wear in same condition operations. We will see. I converted Bobcat customer that puts 1500 hours a year on his units. Maybe I will know by fall. Anyone out there logged a lot of hours on Deere track units yet? I would be interested in hearing from them.

Digdeep
03-23-2006, 09:53 AM
Currently I see the Bridgestone tracks on the Bobcats lasting anywhere from 550-850 hours up here in Wisconsin. This is also about the life the operators around me are saying that they're getting. I would say that the CAT operators are getting close to what you're describing in your region, 1200-1400 hours, but I've seen some 277s and a couple 247/257 (smaller machines) with close to and over 2,000 hours in the same conditions. I have also seen more ASV machines with much higher track life than the CAT units. I think this has to do with the lighter operating weights of the machines and the weight distribution. I have close to 800 hours on my RC50 and I know I easily have 70-75% track life yet. However, I clean my undercarriage everytime at the end of the day and I maintain proper track tension when neded. I've only hade to tension my tracks twice since I've owned it. Thanks for your postings.

Caribbean Breeze
03-23-2006, 12:55 PM
Digdeep,

You are correct, the ASV machines have better weight distribution and are lighter than the Cat in terms of comparable op. weights. Some strong Cat customers have noted this to me that the Cat undercarriage is run tighter than the same on an ASV machine due to the extra weight there is need to have the tracks tighter.

Just like you, I have a friend who cleans his undercarriage after every job with a pressure washer, he has 50% track life on a RC60 at 1080 hours, the ASV track does cost more to replace but the life is better than on rigid mounted, skid steer converted to track loader units. Another great feature that I like about ASV is that they are narrow when compared to the a Bobcat or Cat..maybe this plays a positive role with horsepower use....

I will post some pictures of our new units in a couple weeks :dancing:

Caribbean Breeze

Construct'O
03-23-2006, 01:18 PM
Question????????? What is going wrong with the Brigestone tracks on Bobcats.Is it the wear on the tread part of tracks or where the sprockets are running on the steel pins molded into the rubber part of the track.

I'm interested as i have Deere Ctl 332 and luckly just have clay and black dirt to work in.Other then we do have lots of mud at times.I do think Deere has made it easy to clean tracks and i do like the cover over the rollers keeping stuff from falling from top down between the rollers.

I also like the easy of tightening of the tracks ,just need the use of grease gun.

Like others say, i think it has a lot to do with operaters and owners! If they are too lazy to clean their tracks, they get what they put into their efforts.Less effect less benefits,more effects better performance.

I know time is money like most all of us on here know.So the speed of machine travel i think will have a lot to do with the life and wear of tracks ,just like with the speed on the steel track on equipment.Just my thought of things.

Land&LawnDev.
03-24-2006, 11:19 PM
I currently own a CT332, plenty of power. I am curious to see what type of life I'll get out of tracks. I own and operate my own machine, but don't give it much room to breathe. I do push my machines to the limts, from push power to lift capacity to steep slopes(greater than two to one). So far I have been nothing but pleased with this machine. I had a 320 wheel unit with over tire steel tracks, not bad but no comparison to a true track machine.

Land&LawnDev.
03-24-2006, 11:25 PM
I have seen bobcats with the sam problems that are described, The deere track is also manufactured by bridgestone, I hope they don't do the same thing. My opinion Tach's has best track, the ride on steel rollers same as deere, but instead of rubber lining on track, they have square steel pads that they ride on. In our are that is better for red chirt, the rocks are less like to damage the track. Bridgestone also makes the tach's tracks, maybe deere will change theirs.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-25-2006, 04:56 AM
According to Deere the Bridgstone tracks for the Deere are different than the ones on the Bobcat. According to Deere our front and rear idlers are the largest in industry and because of the the way the tracks roll over and the steel inside the rubber tracks they are suppost to last longer. Deere says the steel inside our tracks are different than Bobcats. Also because of the stability on slopes and even weight distribution from tracks to bottom rollers are suppose to be key issues to increase track life. I am interested in seeing how they hold up in our red dirt , chirt and clay. Only time will tell. I sold after market rubber over tire tracks and they do not do well here.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-25-2006, 06:42 AM
Also the engineers that developed our small dozers which are second to none developed this undercarraige system based on that technology. Being that I sold Deere undercarraige for 18 years at a heavy eq. Deere dealer and know how well their undercaige performs makes me feel positive about the CTL's. Time will tell.

Digdeep
03-26-2006, 08:15 PM
JD Skidsteer...I have it from a very reliable source that the undercarriage that Deere is using on their CTLs is made by Berco, was designed by Berco, uses Italian made Drive motors and final drives. I don't know who told you that the Deere engineers designed your CTL undercarriage, but I would be more inclined to beleive that the JD CTL "uses some of the same technology as your larger dozers". I also know that Komatsu just introduced a CTL, but it has been out in Europe for a year already....and was displayed at a large show (I think it's called BAUMA) in Europe over two years ago with the very same undercarriage that someone from Deere told you they designed. I really enjoy talking to my ASV salesman to keep up on industry information since I don't sell equipment anymore. He keeps pretty good information from his contacts at the factory.

Tigerotor77W
03-26-2006, 08:35 PM
Digdeep, you are correct in saying that the Deere and Komatsu undercarriages are both Berco-produced. I have that in writing as well.

I think Deere's claim that technology was borrowed from their larger dozers isn't too far off, however, as Berco also produces full-size (eg dozer and excavator) undercarriages for OEMs -- Deere and Komatsu included. While I'm not sure whether Deere's engineers worked on the UC, I wouldn't doubt that Berco engineers -- perhaps in collaboration with Deere engineers -- designed the Deere CTL UC.

And there's a few shows in Europe... one that I'm missing this year! (BOOOO!) Intermat (France), Bauma (Germany), and Samoter (Italy? I think?) are all there. Bauma is pretty much the European equivalent of our ConEXPO.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-26-2006, 09:44 PM
Digdeep, you are correct in saying that the Deere and Komatsu undercarriages are both Berco-produced. I have that in writing as well.

I think Deere's claim that technology was borrowed from their larger dozers isn't too far off, however, as Berco also produces full-size (eg dozer and excavator) undercarriages for OEMs -- Deere and Komatsu included. While I'm not sure whether Deere's engineers worked on the UC, I wouldn't doubt that Berco engineers -- perhaps in collaboration with Deere engineers -- designed the Deere CTL UC.

And there's a few shows in Europe... one that I'm missing this year! (BOOOO!) Intermat (France), Bauma (Germany), and Samoter (Italy? I think?) are all there. Bauma is pretty much the European equivalent of our ConEXPO.
Tigerotor77W is correct. Collaboration with Deere engineers and Berco engineers on CTL undercarriage. Berco builds all of Deere's undercarriage parts to Deere's specs. Deere as with most manufacturer's outsource their undercarraige. I know a man that works at a bearing factory in Pulaski Tennessee who says when they manufacture the bearings for Deere they have to shut the line down to set the line up to build the Deere bearings to Deere's specs. Many plants that Deere outsources to have Deere employees overseeing the process. No one builds all of their own parts, but most manufacturers such as Cat and Deere are very involved in the development of the parts they out source. Don't know much about ASV not many sold here. They tried to get us to be dealer, we chose to wait on Deere. Our area Cat, Bobcat, Deere, and a few tachs. We have been doing well in our area. It has a lot to do with dealer support.

Caribbean Breeze
03-26-2006, 09:45 PM
It is correct that the Deere undercarriage is made by Berco.

It does look very much like the same as the Komatsu CTL..

Obviously these companies do not want to invest the $$$ in R&D because of cost and time. Remember it is not about whether a totally new concept can or cannot be developed, the issue really is investment, Deere, Case, New Holland etc. just don't think it justified (cost) to come up with a new concept.

As for tracks, I met a guy involved in golf course construction with a CT332.
His tracks last him 750 - 800 hours.

He has a RC50 that is 3 years old, average track life is 1700 - 1750hrs.

I am convinced that Deere, Case , New Holland have not brought to the CTL industry anything new in terms of undercarriage design.

Thanks,
Caribean Breeze

ksss
03-26-2006, 10:14 PM
I think it would be better to say perhaps the CNH design is more evolutionary than revoultionary. I think much has been learned from TK, ASV and Bobcat. What works and what doesn't. I spoke with the engineers who disected the Deere tracked machine and came away unimpressed with the life of the system. Believe it or not, thats what I was told. I doubt any OEM takes the ASV approach seriously enough to copy them. I believe that the industry will allow them to cater to the suspended suspension market with anticipation of it dwindling. Whether that happens remains to be seen. I spoke with a Bobcat engineer who I grew up with that has an elevated position in the company says the biggest problem is with the availiablity of a quality drive motor for the tracked machines. He says the design simply is not there yet.

UNISCAPER
03-26-2006, 10:55 PM
With regard to a suspended undercarraige dwindling...I think you might be onto something there, but consider this. The C series Cat machines are hydraulically suspended with an adjustable flow that can float the machine, as well as lock it up just like a gas shock in an off road buggy. And it can lock either side or both at the same time. This will be critical on side sloping operations. If you could ideally lock the downside track, or even lift it with hydraulics, you would have a tremendous advantage in those situations.

I'm anxious to drive one of the new C series to see exactly what they have come up with.

Caribbean Breeze
03-27-2006, 08:00 AM
I think it would be better to say perhaps the CNH design is more evolutionary than revoultionary. I think much has been learned from TK, ASV and Bobcat. What works and what doesn't. I spoke with the engineers who disected the Deere tracked machine and came away unimpressed with the life of the system. Believe it or not, thats what I was told. I doubt any OEM takes the ASV approach seriously enough to copy them. I believe that the industry will allow them to cater to the suspended suspension market with anticipation of it dwindling. Whether that happens remains to be seen. I spoke with a Bobcat engineer who I grew up with that has an elevated position in the company says the biggest problem is with the availiablity of a quality drive motor for the tracked machines. He says the design simply is not there yet.

Ksss,

Evolutionary you say?:dizzy:

suspended suspension market dwindling??

The writing is on the wall my friend - you will start to see viscous mounted cabs on CTL's..... So the ride is becoming ever more important.

You should really check your sources.....or change them.....

Caribbean Breeze

Tigerotor77W
03-27-2006, 09:05 AM
Caribbean, I have to agree with ksss on the CNH UC. It was developed in-house to be the most durable [solid] UC available for CTLs, and I'm going to assume until proven otherwise that it's going to live up to that. But there's nothing on that UC that is completely and outright amazing -- nothing that will change the solid UCs on all other CTLs. Patents, sure, but I don't find it an amazing new UC.

On the other hand... the ISR-4 of the SR-70 and SR-8... that has the potential to be revolutionary. The only drawback to a solid-rubber UC is that stones will gnash the daylights out of rubber idlers and tracks until the next evolutionary material property comes along and fixes that.

ksss
03-27-2006, 01:47 PM
C Breeze:

Other than the Deere statement there are no sources to check, these are just the writings of a mad man. I agree ride is important but I don't think a suspended undercarriage will be required to achieve that nor will some be willing to trade the drawbacks of that system for a slightly improved ride. I found one thing interesting during a prototyping session that many picked other brands over CAT when testing smoothness of track system. Reasoning was the teter toter effect of the long tracks. Certainly the most quiet and smooth tracked system on the market. As far as "evolutionary" I think that the word fits very well the CNH track system. There is nothing that will set the tracked industry on its head just some improvements over existing designs. As far as the suspened market dwindling, I believe that is what the rest of the market is anticipating. The statement isn't exactly a prophecy but it stands to reason that since no other OEM is apparently going to enter the suspended market that everyone else figures the market will solidify on the nonsuspended machines. Bobcat is the market leader and they are unsuspended so it is logical that everyone else will follow the leader and he's on a Bobcat. The system Uniscaper describes sounds very interesting and very high tech. Perhaps ASV/CAT will engineer the short comings out of the system. So with some clarification, perhaps this makes more sense. Again there are no sources to this largely, it is just my thoughts.

ksss
03-27-2006, 03:12 PM
I need to add several things to clarify the above statement. The ride complaints of the CAT were due to the teter/tauter effect of the long tracks causing the machine to hit hard on the bottom of the mogal track. As far as the quiet operation and the smooth operation while running the CAT machine it is without equal. After pondering Uniscapers insight in the C series, if CAT is successful in building that capability with durability into its machines it would surely be the machine to have if your running slopes. It also would cure (I think) the problem of the machine compressing on the front torsion system during load which creates problems in maintaining grade under load.

UNISCAPER
03-27-2006, 10:24 PM
I think) the problem of the machine compressing on the front torsion system during load which creates problems in maintaining grade under load.

If you connect a computerized grade system to the 6-1, it takes all the guesswork out of the rock and roll of the machine. You can after you familiarize yourself with the machine, work around that and I can see how anyone who runs a rigid frame would find that rock an annoyance.