Scrubs Cracking?

[Charles]

I see some new ads in the paper for commercial(not brand names of course) and craptsman type stuff for sale in the paper. I think some of the newbies are realizing there are only so many pieces in a pie. If I am not getting any calls for new cuts I know they are not even with their senior discounts, lowest prices in town, lowballing ads. Either that or they finding no profits working so cheap with the price of gas as high as it is. So I am waiting like a cat to pounce LOL. I had a high turnover the past couple of years and not many new calls for business. And no wonder! Saw a mini van pulling a trailor yesterday and a guy in a pick up loaded with equipment in the bed and they are just everywhere with all the layoffs around here.
The stress of it all has me scanning the ads for a parttime job myself. I dont have the patients of a cat and dont really like speculating on whether the calls will start coming when the heat is on.
I called the local paper about the lack of calls and she said their just too many ads. WELL DUH!!
We definitly need more industry in our area to keep these people busy and all we are getting right now is service type jobs. And we got people fighting new industry that wants to come in.
If some of you guys think this cant happen to you that is what I thought a few years back. All I was worried about was whether it rained.
I am not going broke but the biz is nothing like it use to be.

[Eric ELM]

We lost a customer to a lowballer this season, but picked one up the next day, so it all evened out. I guess some of these lowballers know the value of their work. :)

This company that got it, does very poor work and they only sharpen the blades when their mowers go into the dealer for repairs. I also know the dealer. I saw one of their machines in for repair one day and I felt the blades. The edge was like a round pencil. :D

[Charles]

Eric, glad it evened out for you. Thats what I am counting on for next month the low quality types getting fired or dropping out.
I had a slightly less than a full schedule last year. But over the winter I lost a church(they split up and no longer could afford lawn care and the preacher was going to do it). People moved or started doing it for them selves. Just like that a large part of the biz is gone. And like last year the calls have stopped coming in to replace them. I try to do work to perfection and am very nice to customers and flexible. I have not lost work because of quality. I expect turnover for one reason or another. But the last few years the calls have just trickled in for grasscutting. I guess it has to do with the size of the population versus the % of lawn care people. They are not all just scrub either I am focusing on. Their are some very large outfits out their that are even working multiple towns up and down the interstate. I dont know how they going to make it. So I am not just blaming scrub or lowballers. I would feel better if thats all their was. I have a busy day today though just waiting on the dew to evaporate

[Eric ELM]

I saw a sign in a front lawn of a resident yesterday and this LCO is from 45 miles west of here. I can't believe they would drive that far to do lawns. It is a big town they are from and the cost of gas and tolls to get to here has to be costing them big bucks.

The lowballer that is in my area also puts out these metal signs saying they did the lawn. Is this a common thing in other areas putting out signs like this?

[Starling Lawn]

Eric,I`ve seen lco`s put out signs in yards they do.They normally give the customer a discount in exchange for the advertising.Go figure.
Dave

[River Hill]

I just started seeing signs like that here in Maryland. They have been installed when the person has done the muching and the lawns. I now this person has started to receive a great deal of calls. I would not put up a sign just for mowing as a customer looks at the whole landscape. If you just did the cutting and the persons plant beds were overgrown it would leave a bad image.

[lawrence stone]

Originally posted by Eric ELM


The lowballer that is in my area also puts out these metal signs saying they did the lawn. Is this a common thing in other areas putting out signs like this?

Not in my area. That's real tacky. I don't think any of the homeowners I have for customers want a mini billboard on the property.

Local laws and deed restrictions might make this a no-no.
You should check with the local govt types if this even can be allowed.

[Freetime]

It is against city ordinance here to place a sign of any kind in the lawn unless you are doing work as in remodel, landscape construct, new home construct, and only as long as you are their then the sign has to go.

Guy (full time policeman) had his sign pulled from vacant corner lot about 3 weeks ago it was a nice sign like real estate. City inspect said “you are not doing continuing work on the property” and impounded the sign, small town politics don’t you just love it.

[Greenkeepers]

We just got our signs.. We put them out when we do mulch and landscape jobs.. NOT on weekly cuts.. The first day that I put one on a job site we got a call that night....

[Island Lawn]

Checking the classifieds seems like it might be a good gauge on the "State of the Industry".

I still see new guys all the time cutting my island for pennies.

Most of my business is still my annual customers I picked up last year. A few one-timers coming back from last year too. No way I'm turning it down, although my goal was "full service or no service". Things are are different now. I NEED the cash flow. New equipment to pay for. Food would be nice, but I gotta cut expenses lol!
Another yet met goal is to raise my prices. But I'm finding it challenging to sign people to last years prices!

Hope I can continue to compete.

I believe a local professional association could help raise the standard of the industry, but gotta educate the competition on the benes of associating w/ each other first first.

No time for that, I'm just trying to pay my bills!
You know the story.

BTW Charles, I work outta min-van and loaded 5x10 trailer.
Maybe that was me you saw!

I got this route that takes me through the piedmont and into Clemson...
Maybe I passed you along the way!LOL

[Edited by Island Lawn on 04-27-2001 at 10:39 AM]

[Toroguy]

Lots of newbies here also. Last season I had thirty calls from an ad. This season only TWO! I had five customers move to townhomes this winter and was hoping to add a few replacements. Doesnt look good so far.

[TJLC]

This is why I don't drive a big expensive truck and haul around thousands and thousands of dollars of equipment. I have all very good equipment and no payments. I think it's too easy to get yourself in way too deep in this business. I think you have to allow for the slow times. I think some guys out there are working very long days also because they have to because they are so far in debt. I am solo and plan to stay that way. I also will not work 10, 12, 14, or 16 hr. days. Life is too short, guys. Please don't beat me up. This is just my opinion.

[Barkleymut]

TJLC is right. If you are solo and do quality work you don't need a 30K truck and enclosed trailer. I thought about going this route but it wouldn't pay off. I have the best looking lawns around and thats why people keep me on as the "lawn boy". I do work 12 hour days a lot but thats because the wife stays home and takes care of the kid while I take care of making $$$$$$$$$. Gotta send that kid to Harvard one day. LOL

[1MajorTom]

Quote: If you are solo and do quality work you don't need a 30K truck and enclosed trailer.

Quote: This is why I don't drive a big expensive truck and haul around thousands and thousands of dollars of equipment. I have all very good equipment and no payments.

Yep, agree with both statements. If you are doing this part time and your wife works, then maybe you can afford to splurge on a bunch of new toys. That's cool because if times get slow, it's no big deal because it is only a part time gig for you. You will still have your full time job paycheck along with your wifes.

But if this is your livelihood, then business decisions need to be made wisely. That means having reliable equipment along with a good work horse of a vehicle that is very dependable. But getting yourself into a sinkhole of debt probably isn't the best move because this business can fluctuate.

[Edited by 1MajorTom on 04-27-2001 at 06:43 PM]

[Charles]

I agree with that statement about the fluctuation of the business. One year you are on top and the next you can be sinking fast. I have one payment related to the biz left to pay off and after that it paying cash or no new equipment. Well, I have said that before but this time I mean it LOL.
I havent seen any signs yet in front of yard but it I do I be sure to go out of my way to kick it down.
That could have been you island lawn man you get around! I think it was a blue mini van.

[Holloway Lawns]

I have been seeing a alot of people around here doing lawns and our ad's page is full also. I have placed an ad for three weeks got one call and the landscaping job that came from the call I have also put out flyers and done some direct mail no hits there yet. I am planning on buying some new mowers and was going a 48" Toro Walk behind, a Toro 22162, and 22172, and a Toro Z100 44" at a total cost of $10,540.00 I think I may change my mind.

[cos]

Saw a guy with a crown victoria and a tiny makeshift trailer. It must be nice to drop the trailer and look good when giving estimates. :D

Eric, they will be calling back. Once the customer calls, raise their price. The gas prices just went up didn't they. I would love to see them stripes.

[LJ lawn]

about those lawn signs.... i saw a few advertising aeration etc. (AERATION BY XXX LAWN CARE) i don't know if it was effective or not but i think i might try it this year.

[joshua]

no signs here but people have asked me to make some up and put them in. sounds funny to me.

[leeslawncare]

Well call me what you want ,,,but i just finished a landscapeing job on the "Mountain " if you live here you know what i mean.(Rich). I have been mowing there for 7 yrs. now an i put a sign out ! an what was so good was ..it
's the best lawn on the street besides the guy next door (that i also do )!!:LOL

[Island Lawn]

I put a sign out everywhere I go!
My little mini-van (it's white, Charles) is professionally lettered.
I make sure to park strategically to give my mobile billboard the best exposure.

BTW I'm solo. My van is so packed, there is NO room for a helper! I'll HAVE to upgrade when it comes time to get some help!LOL
But until then....

[KirbysLawn]

I sure hope some crack soon!!! Yesterday I pulled up to an account and off in the distance were 4 different lawn services, all new to the area. To top that while mowing I saw 6 more drive by! :eek:

I went to give a bid last week, the guy was just-a-bi**in about the crappy job this guy was doing, broke three sprinkler heads, will not trim right, blah, blah, blah... Well, he said the guy was doing it for $120.00 a month but he was looking for bids and had another for $100.00 a month and he was considering. I bid $145.00 a month and he looked shocked. I gave him a bid sheet, detailed service descriptions, insurance information, license info, and references. He picked the neighborhood lowballer.

Go figure, $700k home with a Porsche 911 GT3 in the garage and he picks the lowest bid. Wonder if the guy throws a rock and hits the Porsche, will he have insurance to cover the repair?

Ray

[Holloway Lawns]

You know most people just think mowing a yard is just mowing there is nothing to it and anyone can do it. So they look for the lowest price and when they see that there was trimming missed or no clean up done then they may gripe but the fact is YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! Anyone else fell this way?

[thelawnguy]

"Go figure, $700k home with a Porsche 911 GT3 in the garage and he picks the lowest bid."

You think this guy got the finer things in life by throwing money after the highest bids he got? Doubt it. Just because you are the low bid doesnt mean you cant do a fine job. And Im speaking from my personal experiences here.

"Wonder if the guy throws a rock and hits the Porsche, will he have insurance to cover the repair?"

The car probably is covered by full comp with no deductible. If it gets whacked he'll have his ins co repair it at the dealer, vs the LCO sitting in his driveway with a can of Bondo (re the thread about bondo'ing the new steel door that got run over lol...)

[KirbysLawn]

Maybe your right Bill, time will tell. Probably, maybe, might, who knows.

Funny though, gripe about the one guy because he goes so fast he does a crappy job and take someone even cheaper. You know why the guy goes wide open, to fit more lawns in his schedule to make up for the low bids. I charge a little more, however I don't look like a Nascar pit crew when working on a lawn, I take the needed time to do the job right without leaving tire swirl makes and destorying sprinkler heads.

LOL.

[thelawnguy]

Ray,

around here there are more than our fair share of guys who will run over sprinkler heads and dig up your lawn with the tires and charge twice as much as the next guy to boot lol lol....

[powerreel]

I just wanted to add that in residential expect turnover @ 75% every 5 years. People will die and move, or get fired or transferred, or even have to pay for Aunt Sue's retirement home bills and have to cut budget somewhere. In our industry we are considered a luxury, in tough times people don't care what their lawn looks like. The only signs I leave are chemi-flags from posting.

[Jason_S]

Just saw a brand-new mustang towing a ZTR and other lawn stuff!!!! TOO FUNNY! Seem's like EVERYBODY does it now.

[Island Lawn]

got my first call this season from someone not happy with the service they are getting.
The guy bid $25 per cut! He started 3 wks ago w/ no contract. He told the homeowner he was full service, but she didnt feel that he was keeping up w/ trimming, edging, blowing, ect.(you know the story!)
She told me she "got the feeling he didn't know what he was doing".
He diagnosed her ferns w/ fungus! I told her not to worry. The little brown spots on the underneath of the leaves were only spores and that anyone that stayed awake in high school biology class would know this (BTW She knew it)
When she approached him to express her disatisfaction, he blew up, told her she was too much trouble, and quit her on the spot!
She then called me (word of mouth ad!).
I told her that there was no way I could do it for $25 a cut! (Obviously neither could the other guy!)
I spent a lot of time w/ her. I told her that I was full service/yr rnd, and everything is done in writing. She was happy to know what she could expect and to have it in writing.

Thing is, she is 15 miles (30 round trip) from my route! I told her that I would have to take that into consideration when quting her a price. She is in a nice enough nieghborhood and it would increase my exposure...besides, I do have a few slots to fill yet...


[Edited by Island Lawn on 04-29-2001 at 01:50 AM]

[lawnman_scott]

Im just curious, did everyone start out with $40,000 worth of equipment and did 100 customers just magically appear?

[Charles]

lawman_scott, when I first started there were not that many lawncare providers in the area. A few big operations and the rest small timers. This post is really a warning to the newbies and the established that times have are still changing. Because with the massive influx of competition in the past few years its very hard to establish a volume business and from year to year its hard to maintain it. You get yourself loaded down in debt and from one year to the next you can have the rug pulled out from under you. Sometimes slowly sometimes quickly. Even the low quality, low priced providers can BS through the first few years before they go under. The post was not meant to be an attack on scrubs. Just that when you(if you do ) reach the bigtime know that you will be just as disturbed at losing biz to a sports car pulling lawn equipment charging half what you do.

[HOMER]

This must be a national thing! My phone has only rung for a one time clean-up and irrigation repair or installation. I guess the market is flooded here as well cause of all the newbies. I might start sending out letters to some of the commercial places just in case they get ready to make a change.

We had a guy here put signs out and he picked up a lot of work that way.........I have to agree that I wouldn't want to put one out unless I was doing the landscape maintenance as well. You never know what people are more interested in. I know what I've done this year. I'm going overboard on quality, might be losing on the account by spending more time but I haven't lost the account! Cash flow is everything right now and the flow has been dammed up somewhere upstream. The accounts I gave up last year still haven't been replaced monetarily. The new ones I bid on this year which would have replaced them were taken by cheaper LCO's. I was hoping to make it up on residentials but that hasn't happened either.............time to diversify! I lost a residential to a guy the other day who I have never seen. I was mowing and this guy pulls up with a spray tank in the back of his truck. Next day I get a call that customer is making a change. Had to be cheaper cause his yard was the best looking on the street. I've lost two to people moving and another one to a guy returning from Korea, he's going to take it over.

All you can do is the best you can do, if they want to replace you then there ain't a darn thing you can do about it. Most of the time they won't even tell you why......!

[Charles]

I think some of this saving a dollar whereever you can stuff is coming from the high cost of energy. A woman told me yesterday he gas heating bill was up over 300$ some months this winter + a small amount for the electric. Plus the high prices at the pump. Add in all the new competition we have and 2001 may be just a year to tread water. Last years we dealt with drought. Throw in a drought this year and I may start drinking 151 rum and picking up cans, riding the rails LOL

[lawnman_scott]

Charles i have lost customers, to big and small alike i would guess, i just dont have the time to go and see whos cutting their grass now that im not. Around here there are tons of lawn services, but im still swamped, so maybe im just lucky. Going to have to add a new crew soon. Just seems that every time you turn around people are bashing "scrubs", i know i sure looked like one when i started, and i probably underbid, not by choice, i was just living and learning i guess. I just looked, there are 7 pages of lawn services, and 3 pages of landscaping in the yellow pages here. Im in a large area (st pete FL) so maybe that could be why its not bad here. And there are many more that arent listed.

[Island Lawn]

I talked to a lady a couple of days ago. This "guy" had been "doing" her yard for $100/month for "full service".
After a whopping 3 wks of this service, she approached him about her dissatisfaction in quality. He yelled at her that it was too much work and quit!

She really wanted everything in writing so that she would know what she was paying for.
I told her I always put everyhing in writing! It's the only way we both know what to expect and what is expected.

This sounds to me like a symptom of "scrub cracking".
And it's not even hot, yet!

She signed my annual contract today for $165/mo!

She told me she was really impressed w/ my professionalism and presentation.

I learned it all here!

On another note, I flat turned down a guy that wanted to haggle me out of business!
I told him to keep the scrub he has!

[Edited by Island Lawn on 05-02-2001 at 10:05 PM]

[Wood Lawn Man]

The secret to success in this business is doing quality, professional work and developing a strong relationship with your customers. We've averaged 40% growth per year for the last 7 years with word of mouth being our only true form of advertising. Low ballers are always out there doing anything to pick up accounts. If you lose an account to one, just be polite and honest with your customer and let them know that in this business, you get what you pay for. Chances are they'll be giving you a callback in a few months.

[MATTHEW]

YOU GUYS WERE TOUCHING ON GAINING AND LOSING
CUSTOMERS. WELL, WE KNOW YOU GOTTA DO QUALITY
WORK.I ONLY HAD ONE CUSTOMER NOT RENEW IN 4 YEARS!!!
SHE WANTED ME TO PICK WEEDS OUT OF THE FLOWER BEDS
FOR FREE.I HAVE CANCELLED, OR IF YOU WILL, NOT PUT
IN A BID ON THE ONES I WANTED TO UNLOAD.THE KEY TO
RETAINING CUSTOMERS IS TO GET THEM TO LIKE YOU. NOW
I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO SIT AROUND AND SHOOT
THE BULL ALL DAY, BUT IF YOU CREATE A COMMON BOND
WITH THEM, THEY WILL NOT QUIT YOU, EVEN WHEN THE PRICE
GOES UP. IF THE MRS LIKES TO GARDEN, COMPLEMENT HER
WORK. IF THE MR. HAS A NICE VETTE OR HARLEY IN THE
GARAGE,SPEND A FEW MINUTES ON IT. FIND OUT WHATEVER IT
IS THAT TRIPS THEIR TRIGGER. I HAVE HAD TO LEARN THIS
OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS.THE BIG GUYS JUST DO NOT WANT TO
OR ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THAT TYPE OF IMAGE.BUT IT IS
SO MUCH CHEAPER THAN BUYING ADS OR KNOCKING ON DOORS.
IT'S ALMOST FREE;)

[1MajorTom]

Matthew,

Please try to remember to turn off the caps when posting.

After a long day, most of us are tired, and the caps make it really hard to read and hard on the eyes.

Thanks

[George777]

My partner and I have done 4 estimated in the last 2 days from flyers that we put out in March. Of the 4 potential customers we picked up one. The lady we picked up fired the last guy because he was not dependable and left the bagged clippings by the curb did not string trim or edge.

We gave an estimate today to a lady @ 50.00 for the initial cut. Her turf was 12" high. I had my tape measure in my hand and she had the nerve to tell me "It is not 12" high." She flipped out on the 50.00 and said she will keep the guy she has. She also told me the guy cutting her lawn does it on the side. I thought to myself, lady he is doing a fine job. The kicker of the whole thing was I would cut it for 35.00 after the initial cut.

As for signs my partner and I have one we put out in a field. Not one week later someone else put up a sign right nest to ours. No big deal because we got the sign for free.

My partner and I make it a point to call our customers and ask for input and just to touch base with them. I have found out that spending a few extra minutes with customers will go a long way. After all we are in the people business. I have picked up an account and the guys were doing a fine job, but they had no people skills. One of the guys told the lady that if she don't like what their doing to find someone else. Well she did and now that lawn is the best-looking lawn in that subdivision.

[Charles]

Glad someone brought this ole thread back up. Well an update is in order and the scrubs haven't really cracked at all. In fact they are multiplying like rabbits. No big ads in the paper for equipment sells. Just scrubs here, there and everywhere. 2 or 3 LCOs for every block. Nice equipment, homeowner equipment, you name it. Its out there. All these people working on the side or been laid off or full time. Even saw a SUV pulling a trailor of equipment yesterday. Women, men, boys all trying to grab a piece of the diminishing pie.

[SLS]

I think Matthew has the right idea on the importance of "people skills".

I have one small sign in a nice, tidy lawn on the busiest street in my neighborhood. It was the client's idea to put it there...not mine. I did not even have a sign when he approached me with the idea. I told him that I appreciated his offer and would reciprocate by discounting his service...but he wouldn't hear of it! I had the same company that made my door magnets create it so it looks well designed and neat-not a "magic marker" job. Another client saw the sign, liked it, and said to plunk one in his lawn too...and he lives on a well traveled street as well (a beautiful corner lot). Maybe I'll have one made for him too.

So far that little sign has garnered me 6 new lawns right here in my backyard...two of them side by side. :)

Needless to say that this customer gets "special treatment"...free cuts for his birthday and when he goes on vacation.

Another client commented on the high price of fuel last week and that making payments on my new Lazer Z must be really eating into my profits....and gave me a $10 increase on his service! I was flabbergasted!

These are perfect examples of how developing "customer relations" can pay off. :D

"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."

[KirbysLawn]

Originally posted by KirbysLawn
I went to give a bid last week, the guy was just-a-bi**in about the crappy job this guy was doing, broke three sprinkler heads, will not trim right, blah, blah, blah... Well, he said the guy was doing it for $120.00 a month but he was looking for bids and had another for $100.00 a month and he was considering. I bid $145.00 a month and he looked shocked. I gave him a bid sheet, detailed service descriptions, insurance information, license info, and references. He picked the neighborhood lowballer.


****UPDATE****

I drive past this lawn each week, I think the new service has missed 2 weeks since they started. The lawn looks like crap and has crab grass everywhere! I plan on a follow-up call tomorrow who knows....

[Keith]

Originally posted by MATTHEW
YOU GUYS WERE TOUCHING ON GAINING AND LOSING
CUSTOMERS. WELL, WE KNOW YOU GOTTA DO QUALITY
WORK.I ONLY HAD ONE CUSTOMER NOT RENEW IN 4 YEARS!!!
SHE WANTED ME TO PICK WEEDS OUT OF THE FLOWER BEDS
FOR FREE.I HAVE CANCELLED, OR IF YOU WILL, NOT PUT
IN A BID ON THE ONES I WANTED TO UNLOAD.THE KEY TO
RETAINING CUSTOMERS IS TO GET THEM TO LIKE YOU. NOW
I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO SIT AROUND AND SHOOT
THE BULL ALL DAY, BUT IF YOU CREATE A COMMON BOND
WITH THEM, THEY WILL NOT QUIT YOU, EVEN WHEN THE PRICE
GOES UP. IF THE MRS LIKES TO GARDEN, COMPLEMENT HER
WORK. IF THE MR. HAS A NICE VETTE OR HARLEY IN THE
GARAGE,SPEND A FEW MINUTES ON IT. FIND OUT WHATEVER IT
IS THAT TRIPS THEIR TRIGGER. I HAVE HAD TO LEARN THIS
OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS.THE BIG GUYS JUST DO NOT WANT TO
OR ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THAT TYPE OF IMAGE.BUT IT IS
SO MUCH CHEAPER THAN BUYING ADS OR KNOCKING ON DOORS.
IT'S ALMOST FREE;)

Well.... we do pretty much what you do. We try to show an interest in our customers and for the most part it works. But, there is a large segment of population that go for the big name. Look how many customers TruGreen/Chemlawn and the big locals have. It's not because of the quality, it's the name. One of the biggest around here as far as maintenance was a guy who hired high school kids. Everyone referred to this guy like he was doing the work himself. Hell, he rarely even went to a customers house, but people couldn't get enough of him. They hired his company like he was a guru.

The market is tightening, even the loyal customers are shopping for a better deal. Not because you're doing anything wrong, they are trying to save a buck. What really sucks, for whatever reason, when a house is turned over to a new owner, it seems they have a friend that has already pointed them to an LCO or worse, a neighborhood kid. We have horrible retention when a house is sold. We might manage to keep 10%. I lost a $200/month lawn to a 17 year old kid the other day. The person who sold the house did everything they could to help me keep it, but the buyer had a friend who has a kid who needs the money. My customer has moved to Georgia and the new customer has hired the neighbor kid :confused:

As you mentioned, you lost a lawn because you wouldn't pull weeds for free. We've got a few of those, but these are older customers that we have had for a long time. Their way of pinching pennies is trying to get you to do stuff for free. They haven't always been like this, this is a recent development. There's not much you can do when people like this start squeezing ya.

As a result of these things combined, we started focusing on more landscaping a couple years back, there is less competion on it and I prefer it. I still would like to keep 40 or so lawns, but the landscaping is keeping us going. I don't want to end up in a fist fight for $20 lawns like it was 10 years ago. Some of our best customers have their homes on the market and with our lousy 90% turnover on these, you have to be looking for new stuff all the time. That's what I'm doing up at 4:38am, working on landscape layouts. We've got about 6 going right now (nothing huge).