PDA

View Full Version : CAT 257B vs DEERE 322


Canon Landscaping
03-16-2006, 10:26 AM
we have been demoing machines for the past week and yesterday we had a cat 257b and a deere 322 at the same time. The deere dealer showed up for the comparison but i have yet to even meet the cat guy and cat is not wanting to give me a price. here is what came of the comparison the deere will out push out lift out dig the cat and has better visibility but the cat has the pilots and smooth undercarriage the cat is also 2k more. So does anyone have opinions on the two machines or any info that might help.

thepawnshop
03-16-2006, 10:51 AM
Iwas facedwith the same choice last year. When the cat dealer showedupm the firstthing he told me was that he wantedtotryand talk me out of their track machine. He said he came fromthe rental side of Cat before going into sales and they had a lot of problems with the undercarriage whenever a customer would use the machine on a side slope and it wasn't covered under the warranty and it was a VERY expensive.

The Deere is designed to be used on side-sloping hills and I do it all the time with very minimul "pucker" factor. I am very satisfied with the Deere...it is a tough machine and very reliable, but the cab is much more cramped than the cat. The pilot controls are nice as well, but I personally am not very good with them, though I am sure had I purchased a Cat, that would not be an issue.

You have to go with what feels right, not always what costs the least...cause the lowest price machine is not always the best deal. Never mind the cat salesguy's bedside manner...if you like the Cat better, buy...but do ask about the undercarriag/side-slope issue. At this stage in the game, everyone makes a good machine...it's just the one that works best for you, which is why we demo them in the firstplace.


Now Scag, tell him why he should by the Cat....

7 IRON
03-16-2006, 11:20 AM
Deere's big selling point is how much trouble Cat has had with their
tracks(asv manufactures)and the high replacement cost.Also,to adjust
the tracks on the JD all you need is a grease gun.On the Cat,far more
time consuming.:usflag:

Qualey
03-16-2006, 12:18 PM
I really don't see where all this talk of Cat undercarriage issues came from. We have had both ASVs and early Cats and have had great success with them on all kings of rocky sidehills to 4' deep mud. Yes, they are a pain in the ass to remove and we have replaced the front idler bearings in the 277 @ ~1000hrs, but thats how it goes with wear items. My 277 is hands down the strongest, most versatile machine I have ever used in this weight class.

Digdeep
03-16-2006, 12:23 PM
I sneaking this post in during my planning period between math classes, but I have to chime in.

I don't own a CAT 257, but I do own an RC50 and it has the same undercarriage that the 257 does. I used to sell Bobcat before going into contracting on my own and I bought the ASV machine over the Bobcat tracked machines for many reasons that I have posted on previous threads. I have been extremely happy with the durability and performance of the ASV machine and undercarriage. I do know that the CAT machine is rated for a 3-1 slope and I have NEVER had a problem working on slopes other than getting to a point that I thought the machine would roll on me. The tracks have never been thrown and I don't see any adverse wear. I can't speak for the CAT salesman, but I can imagine that any machine in a rental environment will see more abuse than a machine owned by someone. I also know that the Bridgestone tracks on the Deere machines aren't cheap either. I would ask them what they offer for track warranty. I know that ASV offers a 2yr 1000 hour warranty on their tracks, and the replacement tracks come with the same warranty for as long as you own the machine. I imagine that CAT offers something very close to ASV since ASV makes the undercarriage.

Caribbean Breeze
03-16-2006, 11:12 PM
Dig Deep,

The Cat 257B has an operating weight of 7560lbs with an operating capacity of 1615lbs @35%, the ASV RC60 has an operating weight of 6200 lbs and operating capacity of 1330lbs @35%.

The Cat machine is better by 285lbs but it weighs 1359lbs more than the ASV (CAT IS 7559LBS, RC60 IS 6200LBS). I understand from a Cat Service Engineer, Cat runs the tracks tighter because of the extra weight.
Also the weight distribution on the ASV is more even that on the Cat machine because the ASV is not built off a skid steer platform. The Cat machine is 6 inches more wide that the RC60. Asv is a little faster, Cat has a little more lift height etc. and ASV a little more ground clearance.

Maybe the ASV machine's track will outlast the Cat? they put alot more weight on the same undercarriage....Maybe.....:confused: :rolleyes:

I just ordered 3 new units (one RC60 and Two RC85's) from the ASV dealer, I will get them in April. I want people to put their trust in my services as I am a smaller contractor in Florida, based on this, I prefer to buy from ASV because they are a growing company that makes a great product. In the real world, how could I get a chance as a small guy in the site prep business by developers?, if I myself am afraid of smaller manufacturers. I think ASV has proven itself....

Supporting smaller enterprise is key to economic progress

Who god bless, no man curse:clapping:
Caribbean Breeze

I sneaking this post in during my planning period between math classes, but I have to chime in.

I don't own a CAT 257, but I do own an RC50 and it has the same undercarriage that the 257 does. I used to sell Bobcat before going into contracting on my own and I bought the ASV machine over the Bobcat tracked machines for many reasons that I have posted on previous threads. I have been extremely happy with the durability and performance of the ASV machine and undercarriage. I do know that the CAT machine is rated for a 3-1 slope and I have NEVER had a problem working on slopes other than getting to a point that I thought the machine would roll on me. The tracks have never been thrown and I don't see any adverse wear. I can't speak for the CAT salesman, but I can imagine that any machine in a rental environment will see more abuse than a machine owned by someone. I also know that the Bridgestone tracks on the Deere machines aren't cheap either. I would ask them what they offer for track warranty. I know that ASV offers a 2yr 1000 hour warranty on their tracks, and the replacement tracks come with the same warranty for as long as you own the machine. I imagine that CAT offers something very close to ASV since ASV makes the undercarriage.

Green Pastures
03-16-2006, 11:25 PM
I don't know all the numbers and statistics...

but I own a Cat 257B and I'm very happy with it.

VERY happy.

gammon landscaping
03-17-2006, 12:10 AM
the 257 is rated for a 3 to 1 slope....my 236 with steel tracks will go all over that with no problem and save you 20 grand

Tigerotor77W
03-17-2006, 02:10 AM
I just ordered 3 new units (one RC60 and Two RC85's) from the ASV dealer, I will get them in April.

Why not order the SR-70 or SR-80? (just curious, not saying that those were the units you should have ordered.)

Caribbean Breeze
03-17-2006, 07:43 AM
Why not order the SR-70 or SR-80? (just curious, not saying that those were the units you should have ordered.)

The SR Series delivery times are very long, up to 3 months or so I was told.

They look really great and the new undercarriage is suppose to be very good.

I have a job lined up and could not wait. I hope to buy one late this year or next year because maybe I don't want the very first of the units....:)

For this job, I needed machines with the lowest ground pressure and most ground clearance, when I start the job, I will send you some pictures and it alot of soft mush / mud. I also wanted a unit that was on the lean side in terms of weight compared to operating capacity. ASV has better horsepower to weight ratio.

Caribbean Breeze

iowacatman
03-17-2006, 08:57 AM
Iwas facedwith the same choice last year. When the cat dealer showedupm the firstthing he told me was that he wantedtotryand talk me out of their track machine.


Sounds like your Cat guy is an idiot. I doubt I would try to talk you out of a track machine because of side hills, The Cat is an excellent machine for side hills. I have seen track machines cost guys anywhere from $5 to $13 per hour. Deere has not been immune to the issues cat, bobcat, ASV, and takeuchi (spelling?) have had. Most of these 'issues' have been application related (ie. rental machines) rather than design related. As these machines progress, we are seeing some tweaking to the design that is greatly improving the cost per hour issue.

Squizzy246B
03-17-2006, 10:08 AM
Sounds like your Cat guy is an idiot. I doubt I would try to talk you out of a track machine because of side hills, The Cat is an excellent machine for side hills. I have seen track machines cost guys anywhere from $5 to $13 per hour. Deere has not been immune to the issues cat, bobcat, ASV, and takeuchi (spelling?) have had. Most of these 'issues' have been application related (ie. rental machines) rather than design related. As these machines progress, we are seeing some tweaking to the design that is greatly improving the cost per hour issue.

When you look at the actual mechanical components used (by all the manufacturer's) there is not a huge difference. They are all going to be subject to the same conditions/forces etc. and this will depend on the driver. The only real major difference would be in the quality/manufacture/material used in the tracks themselves. I can see where brand A may be slightly better than brand B in a certain application, like cross a kerb, but ultimatley it is a wearing system. Track systems suffer, I do believe, from wheeled operators jumping in them and driving tham like a wheeled machine.l It ain't gunna be the same.

iowacatman
03-17-2006, 11:10 AM
Track systems suffer, I do believe, from wheeled operators jumping in them and driving tham like a wheeled machine.l It ain't gunna be the same.

You are right about that

Canon Landscaping
03-18-2006, 05:56 PM
We bought the DEERE 322 it just out works the CAT here is a pic of the new machine

7 IRON
03-18-2006, 09:07 PM
Nice Choice:weightlifter: I Actually Have Driven The CT322 And CT332
And Feel The 322 Is Smoother All Around.I Think Deere Really Did Their Homework On The Track Machines.:clapping:

thepawnshop
03-18-2006, 09:42 PM
I was originally interested in the CAT when I was shopping for a CTL due to the overwhelming support of their machines on here. That is why I was so surprised when they (the Cat Sales Rep) started by telling me all of the cons of a track machine instead of the reasons why I should by their machine. I don't know, perhaps it was part of some kind of new-fangled sales training...it didn't wotk becasue I bought a Deere 322 also and I love it. I can't say if it is better than any of the other guys, but I know it handles tasks that I NEVER thought it could. As Scag has stated before, visibility can be an issue when the arms are slightly raised, but other than that the 322 is one tough machine!

7 IRON
03-18-2006, 10:18 PM
As Scag has stated before, visibility can be an issue when the arms are slightly raised, but other than that the 322 is one tough machine![/QUOTE]


Hopefully Not sounding Stupid,When Tansporting a Bucket Of Material Isn't
It Normal To Keep The Boom Low For Stability?When Driving a Skid around I
Try To Keep The Bucket Angled All The Way Back And Booms Hitting The
Frame Boom stops.Just Curious.:confused:

thepawnshop
03-18-2006, 10:25 PM
That is correct, so in most cases, visibility is not an issue. BUt sometimes you just have to operate with it up a bit...for example, we are clearing a lot right now and using a grapple bucket. Sometimes you raise the material a bit to either get over a pile of debris or to get it at the right height so as to make it easy on the guys loading the chipper.

Don't get me wrong...I absolutely LOVE the 322 and highly recomend it. I only state the visibility issue as something that I wish were better.

7 IRON
03-18-2006, 10:44 PM
Thanks For The Info.Glad To Hear Your Happy With Your Deere CT:drinkup:

JDSKIDSTEER
03-20-2006, 01:00 PM
We bought the DEERE 322 it just out works the CAT here is a pic of the new machine

Josh, Thanks for purchasing your new CT322 from me. Once again, if I am given the chance to demonstrate side by side there is not comparison between us and the competitors and so far I have never lost a deal when I do get to put them side by side. As for your liking the joy stick CAT style controls we are looking at this as an option in the future. We have certain issues with them at this time. The simple answer I can give you as I demonstrated we can out perform them so you can do the same work in less time. Once again, thanks, Doug

JDSKIDSTEER
03-21-2006, 09:05 PM
Here is a pictures of demo to Cannon lifting a load..lifted higher but picture is fuzzy:weightlifter: :weightlifter: :weightlifter: :weightlifter: :weightlifter:

Scag48
03-22-2006, 02:39 AM
Wow, pretty impressive!