HYDRO WALK BEHIND MOWERS

[jcanada]

I HAVE ONLY USED GEAR DRIVEN WALK BEHINDS. I AM CURIOUS IF YOU GUYS PREFER HYDRO OR GEAR DRIVEN. WHY DO YOU LIKE ONE MORE THAN THE OYHER? HOW DO THE HYDROS WORK (HOW DO YOU SELECT SPEED, ETC)? THANK YOU.

[thelawnguy]

I have never in my life used a belt machine, but what I like about the hydro is, instant reverse, and you can run thru a lake and the drive is not going to slip on you. <p>I presently use a Turf Tracer Hydro, and have a John Deere as backup. The JD uses wet disk clutches and a gearbox instead of belts.<p>Bill

[AB Lawn Care]

In my opinoin hydro is worth the extra cost.We bought last season a 14hp dual hydro 36'' cut scag.We use our scag to get in through the gates that our walker can't.Usually in the back yards there is limited space so that means we don't have to be constantly putting it in and out of gear.When we are not doing that we are cutting hills with it.Cutting hills with a belt is not an option.PLUS we even put a blade on it in the winter and plow driveways with it.We use a walker with it so it will plow the snow into large strips and our walker follows and blows it away.We would make 1/3 the money if we owned a belt drive.Don't let the extra cost fool you!!!!<p>from:Adam<p>AB Lawn Care

[Lazer]

A gear/belt drive have a lower cost to aquire.<p>Hydro's have all other advantages including lower operating costs, increased production, wider window of operation and improved reliability.

[jcanada]

Thank you for the replies. My question is how do you adjust the speed on a hydro unit? The gear driven mower that I use now has 4 forward speeds and no reverse. The 4 speeds offer a good range of speeds and it is easy to change gears (or speed). So is it easy to adjust the speed on a hydro unit? Thank you.

[Lazer]

A hydro has infinite speed settings. You can adjust on the go with the lever or do so with the pistol grips. <p>I could be wrong, but I doubt anybody has ever owned a hydro and went back to a belt drive.

[Alan]

Current technology being what it is, the hydro has it all over a belt drive machine. Initial cost is higher, after that the hydro wins hands down,, and as someone said, infinite speed settings, on the fly

[Evan528]

im sorry guys but i have used hydro walk behinds and cannot justify the 1500 dollars more for one over a belt drive.... my z master is my main mower and i only use my 36 gravely for gated yrds and steep hills. hydros are convenient but i dont see how they save time.....

[Lazer]

Evan, they might not save time on a 36&quot; that you're walking behind. <p>But I'll tell you what: on most properties our 60&quot; Hydro WB w/ sulkies will outcut our 60&quot; ZTR's.

[Evan528]

lazer how can that be? a walkbehind cannot ride nearly as fast as a ztr?

[Lazer]

They go 7mph and a Z goes 9mph. On wide open turf, sure a Z is faster, but when you've got hills, berms and smaller areas, a WB will outdo it. They handle inclines better and can turn faster with less scuffing.

[jcanada]

Thank you for all the info. Now a couple more questions for you. What do you guys prefer, pistol grip or lever speed control? Why do you like one more than the other? Do you have a choice when buying most mowers between one or the other or do certain brands of mowers only come a certain way?

[Turf Cutters]

I use Encore hydros. They only come with pistol grips and the price was good. The hydros work great on all types of yards.

[lawnforce1]

We use both a belt drive JD and a hydro Scag. <br>The Scag will out cut the JD 3:1. If you have a wide open space to mow there is not difference. If you are mowing around shrubs, trees, sidewalks and other natural obstructions the reverse on command can't be beaten. I have a lever speed control on both and like it. Would like a pistol grip better.

[geogunn]

I don't have a hydro yet but it's in the cards. all the reasons listed above are valid except for one.<p>someone wrote: &quot;Cutting hills with a belt is not an option&quot;.<p>this is a ludicrous statement. I can mow any hill with my belt drive that a hydro can mow. I do it all the time. good luck.<p>GEO

[Evan528]

geogun, i agree! i mow 75 degree angles with my belt driven everyday

[DMC300]

I USE MY BELT DRIVE ON SOME VERY STEEP GRADES,BUT 75 DEG.IS NOT EVEN CONSIDERABLE! LET ALONE HEALTHY.<p>----------<br>DON<br>LIANNES' MOWING

[cjcland]

your kidding about 75 degree angles.....right? maybe im wrong but i dont think that is possible<p>----------<br>CJC Landscape Management<br>Winter Haven, Florida

[Evan528]

its very possible but not too easy! these are hills you cant even walk up there so dam steep! i have to use all my body strenth to keep the mower on the hill....ive had many instances wheere it looses traction and slipd down sideways down the hill....my heart just about stops beating! i am just way to spoiled by my ztr that i hate using my walkbehind let alone a 21inch push mower.. that is the reason why i use the 36 on very steep hills..... when the 85 degree hills come along is when i weed wack thwe whole thing!

[accuratelawn]

Did someone forget geometry? 75-85- inclines.<br>90 is straight up guys!

[Evan528]

i no that! the hills i am talking about i am estimating the degrees... all i no is that there very close to beins strait op!(90*)

[cjcland]

/ see that slash thats about 65-70 degrees<p>----------<br>CJC Landscape Management<br>Winter Haven, Florida<br>

[cjcland]

i would also like to know where your oil is during all this mountain climbing<p>----------<br>CJC Landscape Management<br>Winter Haven, Florida

[geogunn]

thanks evan528 for the confirmation that belt drives can cut hills. I wont hazzard a guess what degree steepness that I can cut but if I can't cut it with my machine, there isn't a hydro out there that can either.<p>gravity is just that. the same gravity that sucks my LESCO down the hill will suck any exmark, toro, JD, ...you name it, maybe even quicker.<p>all of us need to be careful on hills!!!<p>GEO

[Retro67]

I'd like to see a walkbehind on some of the hills I've mowed with my Ferris IS/Z. I thought of the conversation when some of you joked about chaining a goat to a hill. &lt;p&gt;I love my walkbehind, but it can't hold a candle to hillside operation of my Z. There are a few things it does really well and hillsides is one of them. I've been on 45 degree slopes and had no problems, other than feeling like I was defying gravity. My grandfather's property has a hill that is probably around 60 degrees, but I would never let anything go down it that I wanted to come back up. I think some of the estimates I've heard are incorrect, at best.<p>&lt;p&gt;John

[geogunn]

retro--I am not familiar with your mower. can you explain why it does so well on slopes that are so steep that it is hard to stand on? <p>do you use an up and down hill pattern...diagonal...etc.? what's the trick?<p>thanks.<p>GEO

[lawrence stone]

Retro-<p>In your just one year in business what machine works better on hills your NEW 36&quot; toro hydro, your NEW 48&quot;<br>ferris hydro w/ sulky or your NEW 61&quot; ferris<br>ZTR?<p>How did that quarter acre strip mall job turn out? Were you the low bidder?

[Retro67]

Geo-<p>The IS/Z has the lowest center of gravity in its class. If you mow flat land, this isn't even an issue. If you mow on hills, it is a big issue. <p>If a machine is top heavy it has a tendency to want to go down the hill. If the weight is distributed lower, it will have more weight over the drive wheels.<p>Some of the accounts I am talking about I can mow &quot;through the ditch&quot; others are still as steep, but are much narrower and must be mowed along the ditch.<p>Stone- I was given the opportunity to beat their current lowball price of $275 per month for three properties. I passed since my work doesn't come that cheap. They were all different sizes, one about 6,000 and another maybe 1/2 acre. I would not have done them for less than twice that price. Everyone has his price, though. I had another one, 3/4 acre Super 8 motel, wanted me to do it for $80 per month. HAHAHAHA. What do these people think? <p>Also, the Toro is &quot;less than ideal&quot; on hills that you must traverse horizontally (short, steep drainage ditches). The tiny drive wheels are part of the problem, along with the fact it is a 36&quot; which is a terribly narrow stance to expect much traction on a hill.<p>Ferris knows how to build a hydro walkbehind. This should be no surprise. Until they put it in their machine in the 80's, all the walkbehinds were belt drives. I almost forgot, you don't own a hydro, do you? You said before, why, but I have forgotten.<p>It amazes even me how much I have learned in such a short time. Of course, in all fairness, I have been in the business much longer than one year. I took a long hiatus, but spent several years in the business previously. Now I have the one thing I didn't have back then. The best type of equipment available for each specific job.<p>Also, don't be so quick to discount my expertise. Admittedly, you spend very little time pursuing this part of the business and I probably spend a disproportianately large amount of time on &quot;fact finding missions.&quot;<p><br>If I had your mechanical abilities to repair machines, I would not know much about new, either. However, it would be too costly and time consuming for me to learn at this point, even if I had the interest.&lt;p&gt;John<br>

[paddy]

i think if your gonna get a belt drive the only option is a toro. this thing has postive drive, when i back it off my truck, i just set the engine to 1000 RPM, and clamp down on the T-Bar, it won't run away. and when you make turns, unless your backing it up in between, you just lean into it with your shoulder, your shoulder is a much bigger muscle than your hand, that means less fatigue

[geogunn]

paddy--how does that t-bar do when you need to raise the front of the deck to go over an obstacle in your path like an iron pin or a rock.<p>there are lots of great belt drive out there as options. to many to list here.<p>GEO

[paddy]

oops, thats the only drawback. You can do it, its just a bit awkward. your wrist will be cocked down, and then you push down on your elbows. It works, but its a little tricky, turning while lifting the front of the deck is even more dificult, but you'll master that too. Another advantadge is that when you have the bar half way pushed, so the belt is free wheeling (no brake), you have a bar that goes across your body to pull back on. this puts much less stress on your wrists than a regular grip. with a regular mower, its all grip strength.

[Gus]

When Ferris first came out with their Z I was<br>anxious to try it out since I`d been running Ferris machines for quite a while and was sold on their quality. My dealer loaned me one for the day and I headed for my dads place<br>which is 3 acres with very steep hills. As was stated before when you go out on hills the feeling on this machine is that this z is glued to the hills. At one point I stopped on a side hill locked the E-brake and got off.<br>I tried pushing and pulling on it in every direction :wouldnt budge. This hill was easily 60 degrees if not steeper. Needless to say I bought the Ferris and now run a I/S.

[Lazer]

Only a roofer would fully appreciate the humor of the steepness claimed on this forum.

[thelawnguy]

Some of you guys better take that refresher course in geometry at the local CC. It is extremely difficult to walk on anything greater than 35 degree slope. I saw a rediculous claim of someone with an I/S running across 45 degree slope, now its up to 60? Must have anti-gravity cream on the seat or something.<p>Bill<p>

[Alan]

I gotta agree with thelawnguy. Unless you have managed to change the laws of physics there is NO WAY you can mow anything approaching 60 deg slopes. Flame me all you want, but those claims are full of BS! A house roof with a 12/12 pitch is a 45 deg slope. You cannot stand on one even with good shoes and the grit of the shingles. Don;t tell me I'm a foll here unless you can put an angle guage on your fictitous 60 and 70 degree slopes. Now if you were talking percentage of grade that might work. Grade percentage is expressed in feet of rise in 100 feet of run. A 45 degree slope is a 100% grade, it goes up 100 feet for every 100 ft of horizontal travel. I'm not real positive on the conversions, but a 70 PERCENT slope is probably mowable, with extreme caution.

[Eric ELM]

Lazer, once again, I have to agree with you. The roofers would like this. 85 degrees is a steeper angle than I would even want to walk up a ladder to do the roofing. I used to do roofing and a 9-12 pitch is about the most I will even attempt to walk on a roof, which is aproximately a 37 degree angle. A 12-12 pitch is a 45 degree angle and you need cleats nailed to the roof to stay up there. When I climb a ladder, I put it at about 75 degrees or less to be safe while climbing. There is no way I would set a ladder up at 85 degrees and climb it unless it was tied at the top, or it will come over backwards before you can get to the top. Grass won't grow on anything that steep. I will go along with a mower climbing 45 degress, but that's hairy. I used to mow a hill about that steep, but a 85 degree incline, you would need cliff climbing gear to get up it. As I'm writing this I'm looking at my Swanson Speed Square, and as all of us know, 90 degrees is straight up, 85 degrees is like a wall that is leaning just a fuzz, next thing to straight up. Your mowers may come down a cliff that angle, but it will be messed up when it hits the bottom.<p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.townserver.com/elm/&quot;&gt;Eric@ELM&lt;/a&gt;<p>

[AB Lawn Care]

First I would have to agree.I have cut slopes with our walk-behind at about 45 degrees tops!Even in hillside mowers like the dew-ease can only go up to 45 degrees.70 would be hard maby even impossible with a trimmer.Also some belt drive owners said that they can cut hills.Yes that is true but if it was wet or had rained that day you will soon see the advantage of hydro walk-behinds.Don't get me wrong I'm not saying they are no good I'm just saying that hydro beats them in every way but price!!!<p>from:Adam<p>AB Lawn Care

[cjcland]

i would still like to know where the oil is during all this hill climbing arent you risking a blown motor? im not trying to be mr. smarty pants i was just wondering what is the steepest angle that is sakfe to mow(safe for the motor) and then there is always ruts, how do you guys keep from making ruts on these hills?<p>----------<br>CJC Landscape Management<br>Winter Haven, Florida

[Lazer]

25 degrees is about as steep as anybody has run a mower on a hill. I don't think engines have a problem with that. Making ruts is definitely a concern.

[lawngator]

I am concerned with the oil as well. I just bought a brand new Z. I have two accounts that have hills approximately 35 deg. Just how long can you run at this angle without doing damage. The &quot;rut&quot; issue is a good one, too. I have been mowing them with a 36&quot; belt WB and have never been real comfortable on the hills with it.

[curlawngreen]

For a car to stay on the bank at DAYTONA SPEEDWAY it must be going 90 miles an hour.<br>24 degrees.

[Keith]

It's actually 31 degrees. But point taken :) curlawngreen, have you ever seen them mow the outside of the track. The grassed area there are extremely steep. I would like to know how they do it.<br>