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View Full Version : TG not putting down pre-m?


indyturf
03-20-2006, 04:56 PM
I got another TG customer today! TG had been out earlier today and did about 1/2 the lawn before the homeowner stopped them. when I got there I checked the lawn to see what TG had done, it looked like they had spread 46-0-0 to me! I asked the homeowner if they put any pre-m down, he said the applicator said they do that in the next application? sounds shady to me.. but not surprising!

HoseJockey
03-20-2006, 05:44 PM
Not sure about the turf type up there, but around here on fescue they put 46-0-0 down with about a .25 rate of liquid pre em. Sometimes broad leaf weed control depending on how much revenue was produced the month before. I think it was part of the plan to have a fescue lawn full of weeds so the customer would almost have to have the lawn over seeded in the fall. The seed is cheaper then the chemicals anyhow. I worked there for 4 years doing the comm. props. and only thing I really learned was how to lose a customer after 7-10 months.

indyturf
03-20-2006, 10:51 PM
Not sure about the turf type up there, but around here on fescue they put 46-0-0 down with about a .25 rate of liquid pre em. Sometimes broad leaf weed control depending on how much revenue was produced the month before. I think it was part of the plan to have a fescue lawn full of weeds so the customer would almost have to have the lawn over seeded in the fall. The seed is cheaper then the chemicals anyhow. I worked there for 4 years doing the comm. props. and only thing I really learned was how to lose a customer after 7-10 months.
this is cool season blue/rye mix. the lawn was full of weeds and TG has been taking care of it for 3 years.he called me because TG calls him every other week trying to sell him something. looks like they don't want to spend too much $ on the 1st app just in-case the customer cancels, then come back in a month and put pre-m down?

TurfProSTL
03-21-2006, 02:12 AM
They do it that way here, too.

I'm sure it has more to do with the chemical cost vs cancellation rate than it does with sound agronomic practices.

Actually, if they were using a decent fertilizer for this time of year and following up with a full season rate of Dimension (mixed with BLWC and fert)on Round 2 - they would be providing a pretty decent product for their customers.

Betcha they're not.....

Koster Landscape
03-21-2006, 07:08 AM
That doesn't surprise me a bit with that crowd. It's really funny to have people tell me , TG has been treating their yard for 3 years , when it is full of wild garlic and onions!!! I laugh in their face.

dKoester
03-21-2006, 03:37 PM
When we put down the weed and feed the weeds die and the lawn stays green. Thick dark green. Hose sprayer works great.

Killswitch
03-21-2006, 09:05 PM
Ha....I was talking this subject to myself today and a customer I took from TG. They go out early (Im in Michigan and they have been out for a week at least) and they apply what they call a high nitrogen fert....which is probably 34-0-6 or 33-0-8, and then they will be back in three weeks or four weeks with 25 something with whatever CG control they are using this year.

I know for a fact they apply at a minimum of .75 N pr M and what happens is when they come back in a fe weeks to a month most of that first app fert is still unused and in theory you just got 1.5 lbs of N on your lawn before it came out of dormancy.

Yeah....thats what turf needs. High N in spring. They even have you guys fooled into thinking you need to apply high N in fall when you should be applying high K. :rolleyes: because they are too cheap to replace their stock with the right product and they use whats available. So now everyones schooled to think High N in fall which is Bullcrap.

These people are thieves, crooks, charletons, liars, and have NO integrity whatsoever. I cant see how they sleep at night especially since their big motto is "Honor God in all we Do"

Would god sell some old lady on a fixed income a 125 dollar grub contol when she has clay soil and theres not a grub for miles?

I waste NO time telling people their practices and pointing out why they've been being ripped off for years if they use tgcl.

Killswitch
03-21-2006, 09:10 PM
Actually, if they were using a decent fertilizer for this time of year and following up with a full season rate of Dimension (mixed with BLWC and fert)on Round 2 - they would be providing a pretty decent product for their customers.

Betcha they're not.....


Thats exactly what they do and the program is crap. Period.

When do lawns come out of dormancy IE soil reaches 55 degrees vs when does Crab germinate in Missouri?

TurfProSTL
03-22-2006, 01:52 AM
Thats exactly what they do and the program is crap. Period.

When do lawns come out of dormancy IE soil reaches 55 degrees vs when does Crab germinate in Missouri?Well, in this area its now late March (1st day of Spring) and they've been out since early February.

I'm not defending their program. Just saying that something similar could be done properly with good results.

Every year is different, we got 3" of snow or better today.

Generally speaking, I'm happy to have PEs like Barricade applied by the end of March - Dimension by mid-May.

You can do what you want in Michigan, Killswitch. I know for a fact you don't have near the crabgrass pressure that we do here. Have some fun this year and good luck.....

Duck Dodger
03-22-2006, 08:26 AM
I just got a letter form tg spring treatment only 29.95. I have a small front yard only 6k my back lawn is two acres it has a privacy fence I geuss they didn't do their research tooweel.

DUSTYCEDAR
03-22-2006, 09:24 AM
they did and will only treat the front and if u want the back done they will sureley give u a good deal on it lol

Grassmechanic
03-22-2006, 01:15 PM
They even have you guys fooled into thinking you need to apply high N in fall when you should be applying high K. So now everyones schooled to think High N in fall which is Bullcrap.
You need to brush up on the recommendations from MSU. In short, you should be applying the bulk of your N to the lawn in the fall, along with K.

lawnservice
03-22-2006, 04:23 PM
these trugreen post get me almost as riled up as the symbiot post.

makes me laugh when i read "we took a customer from TG"
what you actually 'took' was the crumbs that fall off their table

no, i'm not with TG like someone accused me of some time back.
no, i'm not a fan of TG nor do i defend them

just makes me laugh when some one-man-band operation says they 'took' a customer from them
(easy, nothing wrong with a one man show, nothing at all)


so, go ahead and slam me now
wait......:headphones: ok now go ahead and slam me

Fertboy
03-22-2006, 04:43 PM
Ive seen TG put out straight Urea before, when you can do 5-6 5k lawns with a bag of fert thats where they are making up $. I dont bash other LCO's all have there ways. When I get a prior TG customer that is next to one of my clients, they always tell me they chose us because we take our time. Not in and out in 5 mins, this is where your quality control makes you business!

Ed

indyturf
03-22-2006, 04:55 PM
these trugreen post get me almost as riled up as the symbiot post.

makes me laugh when i read "we took a customer from TG"
what you actually 'took' was the crumbs that fall off their table

no, i'm not with TG like someone accused me of some time back.
no, i'm not a fan of TG nor do i defend them

just makes me laugh when some one-man-band operation says they 'took' a customer from them
(easy, nothing wrong with a one man show, nothing at all)


so, go ahead and slam me now
wait......:headphones: ok now go ahead and slam me
it's just that TG is supposed to be the national leader in the lawncare industry, and 20 yrs ago they were a very good company. but when you see a lawn that has been taken care of them for 2-3 yrs and it looks like it has never seen weed control its just amazing to me they spend millions on avertising on TV, radio, sports areana's and direct mail and dont take better care of their customer's! just because they know they will get a new crop of customers next year. I know the majority of my customers have had TG at one time or another. just think how much they could save on advertising and how much bigger they could be if they would try not to alinate their customer base! there alot of us (one man bands) picking up the crumbs from TG. Im thankful for them every day!

Killswitch
03-22-2006, 07:18 PM
You need to brush up on the recommendations from MSU. In short, you should be applying the bulk of your N to the lawn in the fall, along with K.


Right. 200 years of agronomy changed 180 degrees in ten years. I dont buy it and I dont trust the influence billion dollar corporations like TGCl have on the so called Information system.

Killswitch
03-22-2006, 07:22 PM
these trugreen post get me almost as riled up as the symbiot post.

makes me laugh when i read "we took a customer from TG"
what you actually 'took' was the crumbs that fall off their table

no, i'm not with TG like someone accused me of some time back.
no, i'm not a fan of TG nor do i defend them

just makes me laugh when some one-man-band operation says they 'took' a customer from them
(easy, nothing wrong with a one man show, nothing at all)


so, go ahead and slam me now
wait......:headphones: ok now go ahead and slam me

I only need to steal a hundred customers from them. Easy! I can live on the crumbs and it makes their ******* pucker when you take customers that have been with them for 20 years like I have been. Customers that have gotten the 2 dollar increase every two years and are paying three times what they should.

Thanks! TGCL is extremely focused on retention and it costs them a lot of money to either "Buy" or aqquire accounts. So yeah....I like to be able to say I took $1000 of revenue from tcgl on a good day.

lawnservice
03-23-2006, 08:06 AM
I only need to steal a hundred customers from them. Easy! I can live on the crumbs and it makes their ******* pucker when you take customers that have been with them for 20 years like I have been. Customers that have gotten the 2 dollar increase every two years and are paying three times what they should.

Thanks! TGCL is extremely focused on retention and it costs them a lot of money to either "Buy" or aqquire accounts. So yeah....I like to be able to say I took $1000 of revenue from tcgl on a good day.
lawncare is a business, business is about making $$$
you campare 100 accounts of yours to their mega accounts? thats funny

you say they are way over charging...most here say they way undercharge

you say their backside puckers when you 'take' customers that have been with them 20 years.... i say they dont even notice

you say their focus is on retention when obviously their focus is on new sales



you also say turf doesnt need N in the fall???
you say turf comes out of dormancy when soil temps reach 55*??

interesting

good luck

Grassmechanic
03-23-2006, 09:45 AM
Right. 200 years of agronomy changed 180 degrees in ten years. I dont buy it and I dont trust the influence billion dollar corporations like TGCl have on the so called Information system.
It's obvious that you have no formal education in Agronomy, nor do you understand the funding of studies. I was taught this over 22 years ago by some of the best minds in Ag - Drs. Beard, Reike, Branham, Vargas, et al. But, I guess your more knowlegeable than all those, so keep doing it your way.

P.S. every major Golf Course in Mich, uses MSU's recommendations, along with Comerica Park. Ask them yourself.

Killswitch
03-23-2006, 08:49 PM
It's obvious that you have no formal education in Agronomy, nor do you understand the funding of studies. I was taught this over 22 years ago by some of the best minds in Ag - Drs. Beard, Reike, Branham, Vargas, et al. But, I guess your more knowlegeable than all those, so keep doing it your way.

P.S. every major Golf Course in Mich, uses MSU's recommendations, along with Comerica Park. Ask them yourself.


Thats fine. Do it your way. I've been doing this since 1984 myself. My program works beautifully.

I studied with Vargas as well. I think he's smoked too much pot over the years if you ask me.

Grassmechanic
03-24-2006, 10:34 AM
I studied with Vargas as well. I think he's smoked too much pot over the years if you ask me.
Nice. I'll print this off and show it to him the next time I see him.

dkeisala
03-24-2006, 11:22 AM
I'm no expert but the custom blends I buy from Simplot Partners go from high N in the spring to low N high K for the winter treatment we apply in December to our perennial rye and fescue lawns.

Killswitch
03-24-2006, 09:23 PM
Nice. I'll print this off and show it to him the next time I see him.


:laugh: Dont forget to bring him an apple too!

lawnaggie
03-24-2006, 09:26 PM
too much N in late spring can lead to brown patch in certain situations?

Killswitch
03-24-2006, 09:27 PM
I'm no expert but the custom blends I buy from Simplot Partners go from high N in the spring to low N high K for the winter treatment we apply in December to our perennial rye and fescue lawns.

Well there you go. Bottom line fellas is everyone has a different program, and in fact the only thing that matters is the turfs green, and there are no weeds, and that your program isn't "causing" problems with the turf.

I think you need to be careful with the High N proggies.....and in fact most of the lawns we fertilize are Over Fertilized to a large extent in the first place.

Killswitch
03-24-2006, 09:29 PM
too much N in late spring can lead to brown patch in certain situations?


There ya go. Now you're thinkin. See my post above about creating issues with poor programs.

High N promotes a lot of things besides too much topgrowth and an excessive thatch layer.

Brown patch has a lot to do with differing soil interactions...visa vie sodded lawns. Soil interface if you will but yes. High N can promote disease long story short.

right on.

TurfProSTL
03-24-2006, 09:48 PM
There ya go. Now you're thinkin. See my post above about creating issues with poor programs.

High N promotes a lot of things besides too much topgrowth and an excessive thatch layer.

Brown patch has a lot to do with differing soil interactions...visa vie sodded lawns. Soil interface if you will but yes. High N can promote disease long story short.

right on.Agree with high rates of N in spring causing problems. Thats why most university turf departments recommend the bulk of your needed N be applied in fall.....

Don't know about Michigan, but here the diseases most associated with poor soil interface are the ones we used to collectively call Fusarium Blight, namely Summer Patch and Necrotic Ring Spot.

Brown Patch seems to favor those succulent lawns juiced up in Spring by excessive rates of N. High humidity and/or soil moisture and poor air circulation seem to fuel Brown Patch. Fescue is more prone to get it than KBG here.

Killswitch
03-24-2006, 09:54 PM
Well, in the sense that the blights and ring spots and I think the brown patches are systemic diseases, but perhaps BP to a lesser extent. But I associate them as being very similar.

I just think applying appropriate amounts of whatever nutrient you are applying is best done in season with soluable(sp?) products that are easily available to the soil.

Theres too much product being applied to dormant frozen turf and in my opinion you shouldnt even think about applying to a lawn thats in dormancy.

We cause a lot of our own problems in this business because of the things we apply. Im a firm believer in the fact that a lot of lawns and trees that are serviced are over fertilized and phyto toxic.