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Drafto
03-31-2006, 07:58 PM
I have some photos of a job we are currently working on. Walls went well and the pavers are going smooth in this picture is a shot of just the patio area. Ooh.....ah....nice layout.....I know thank you.

Drafto
03-31-2006, 08:00 PM
This pic is a close-up of a nice smooth curve. Ooh....ah.......beautiful cuts....thank you.

Drafto
03-31-2006, 08:02 PM
This next one is another close up but it is of a meticulous 90 degree herringbone pattern.........ooh.....ahh......nice neat work......thank you.

Drafto
03-31-2006, 08:12 PM
And finally this next photo is of a....screeech.....errrrtt.....crash! How the "F" do we fix this! When I got to the site I saw everthing else first, thought it looked great then I walked up on to this monstrasity! What suggestions or solutions does anyone have for this?

A: 1-1/2" gap between the wall which runs tighter as you get away form the house

B: These tapering slivers? Should I just cut them at the seem, leave half pavers and put slivers up against the wall in the border color? The sawcut is crooked also, it will be redone on Monday.

C: High point in the wall, we chiseled off a few but I still have to deal with them somehow, that is what pushed the boder that far way.

D: The house was not straight enough for us to put a square on it to start laying pavers, we started at the bottom of the hill in space and worked towards the house. And before anyone asks, yes we are paving up that hill, and no the people did not want any steps.

I have all weekend to think about how to fix this, I appreciate any input you guys/gals have.

Thanks,
Dan

ynvvbr
03-31-2006, 09:26 PM
Danny,

IMO, from what
a) i see Take your soldier coursepush it against the wall and recut all your"cut" pieces to fit. Take a look and see what it looks like.

b)don;t put slivers in your soldier course. It wont look right and you'll have problems with it later.

c)as for this I really cant see what your talking abt except for that lower piece that sticks out of the base ofyour wall??

ynvvbr
03-31-2006, 09:27 PM
PS: Awesome curves and Nice herringbone pattern!!!

sheshovel
03-31-2006, 09:45 PM
I would just knock in a 1x2 piece of pressure treated wood and call it good there..not much you can do to make that work.I sure don't like those little peices of pavers in there like that at all.Or rebuild the wall pushing in your lower course..yea that's it rebuild the wall

mbella
03-31-2006, 10:02 PM
I would just knock in a 1x2 piece of pressure treated wood and call it good there..not much you can do to make that work.I sure don't like those little peices of pavers in there like that at all.Or rebuild the wall pushing in your lower course..yea that's it rebuild the wall

That's why you're Sheshovel and the rest of us are working.


Dan, did you build the wall?

Other than the pic with the wall, the work looks good.

BTW, WTF did you screed sand on the hill?

Drafto
03-31-2006, 10:42 PM
That's why you're Sheshovel and the rest of us are working.


Dan, did you build the wall?

Other than the pic with the wall, the work looks good.

BTW, WTF did you screed sand on the hill?

Yes, we built the wall, that is the 3-6 combo wall I was asking you about last week. Kirk (Dreams to Designs) came down and shed a little light as to how it goes. I notice in your response you didn't have any good solutions for the problem.

We are paving up that hill Mike, and 2 others! I will get some more shots of the different walks and elevations, it is quite an interesting job. We screeded our sand to get a definative line for our transition up the hill, we didn't get to laying up it though so we will re-screed on Monday.

How about some more suggestions as to how to fix the gaps? And moving the wall or re-laying the entire filed of pavers is not an option.

Dan

Drafto
03-31-2006, 10:45 PM
Danny,

IMO, from what
a) i see Take your soldier coursepush it against the wall and recut all your"cut" pieces to fit. Take a look and see what it looks like.

b)don;t put slivers in your soldier course. It wont look right and you'll have problems with it later.

c)as for this I really cant see what your talking abt except for that lower piece that sticks out of the base ofyour wall??

I was thinking along these lines but I was going to push my soldier course out to the wall in an un-even matter. Then cut a line to straighten out the soldiers on the field side then cut my field pavers to butt up against my newly cut soldiers.

Does anyone understand what I just said?

Dan

Drafto
03-31-2006, 10:49 PM
Mbella,

Here is a shot of the patio transitioning to the slope but this was before we finshed leveling our modified, it gives you an idea of the hill/patio transition. Oh, and this isn't the only funky transition.

Dan

sheshovel
03-31-2006, 10:51 PM
Hey why don't you stuff it mbella..I'm not workin because of the weather and that's the only reason.

jreiff
03-31-2006, 10:58 PM
Ouch.............

kootoomootoo
03-31-2006, 11:44 PM
Yes, we built the wall, that is the 3-6 combo wall I was asking you about last week. Kirk (Dreams to Designs) came down and shed a little light as to how it goes. I notice in your response you didn't have any good solutions for the problem.

We are paving up that hill Mike, and 2 others! I will get some more shots of the different walks and elevations, it is quite an interesting job. We screeded our sand to get a definative line for our transition up the hill, we didn't get to laying up it though so we will re-screed on Monday.

How about some more suggestions as to how to fix the gaps? And moving the wall or re-laying the entire filed of pavers is not an option.

Dan


crush one of those soldier course pavers OR preferably the wall block real fine, mix with sand and some cement and fill in the area with it.......

OR next time dont build the entire wall until you know when.

neversatisfiedj
04-01-2006, 07:45 AM
You could score your soldier course to accept the 1/2 inch diff. between wall and pavers.

kris
04-01-2006, 08:27 AM
I think I understand that you are saying it isnt that your lines went crooked but there is an issue with the wall .... these are the kinds of things that if I was to be there in person could come up with a suitable solution ... Im thinking i would probably gently taper the soldier course towards the wall and re-cut the pieces.

Can I ask you what the purpose of that wall is? Is it a sitting wall? Are you going to be bringing up the grade on the other side?

Drafto
04-01-2006, 08:37 AM
I think I understand that you are saying it isnt that your lines went crooked but there is an issue with the wall .... these are the kinds of things that if I was to be there in person could come up with a suitable solution ... Im thinking i would probably gently taper the soldier course towards the wall and re-cut the pieces.

Can I ask you what the purpose of that wall is? Is it a sitting wall? Are you going to be bringing up the grade on the other side?

Sitting wall, and yes, the other side will be brought up to grade. This is totally a hindsight error, I know what to do in the future to prevent this, but for now I need to get it fixed. Thanks for your suggestions Kris, your grade stake hangers are being fabbed right now in a weld shop!

Dan

kris
04-01-2006, 08:44 AM
Dan I was just re -reading your post ... I would never cut the soldier course bricks ... from point c just gently get them to the wall... it has to look smooth and there will still be a slight gap between wall and pavers in some spots...should be able to fill the small gap with sand ... unless you are a pro you will probably never see it ... if it wasnt a sitting wall I might suggest pulling up some pavers and making a small planting bed along the wall ... I dunno

kris
04-01-2006, 08:59 AM
sorry too late to make an edit .... just another suggestion. I know you said the customer said no steps but to have that walk meet your patio at that angle ..well..hmm... I think it will feel funny when you are walking...maybe even a trip. You have to have a nice smooth transition not an angle like showing.
One step here would have made the world of difference... sometimes you have to "tell " the customer what needs to be done.

mbella
04-01-2006, 09:34 AM
Ok, smartazz Dan. First, I would have been on the job and made sure that the person laying the pavers and wall understood that this could happen. Particular attention has to be taken when laying the course of block that the pavers will come into contact with. Use block that don't have an extreme high point in the face and shift the block so the face is as flat (on the paver side) and straight (as you can be with weathered block) as possible. Anyway, that's hindsight.

My opinion, if you're not goint to redo the wall, get that joint, where the soldier course meets the field pavers, as straight as possible. I would NOT cut the soldier course for any reason. Sweep polymer into the gap (betwen the wall and pavers) and call it a day.

UNISCAPER
04-01-2006, 10:33 AM
I would move the wall over.

zedosix
04-01-2006, 12:54 PM
I would move the wall over.

What I would do if it matters, is pull out all those cut pieces, move the soldier course in and then move the wall as uni says. Hopefully your wall is not backfilled and the caps glued.

UNISCAPER
04-01-2006, 01:00 PM
The other thing you could do is re rake the radius into the wall. Either way it will take some work. After looking at the pics again, if you moved the wall it would not be even with the side of the house, which I think you were going for. So, reradius the flatwork and cut a few more bricks. Call it a day.

Or........If you could get an exact color match with mortar, you could use that as fill and it will come out fine.

sheshovel
04-01-2006, 01:03 PM
I would move the wall over.
That's what I said..I don't see why it is not an option.

Drafto
04-01-2006, 02:30 PM
I would move the wall over.

When we built the wall we pinned and glued every course. The problem was when we started laying the pavers we wanted to be square to the walk (up hill) so we kind of started in "space". The wall is square from the side of the house, but not to the back b/c the foundation wall allong the slider is a disaster. The other retaining wall, is square to the house but not perpendicular to the others wall (1" out over 16'). We have to come up with some solution the hopfully only had to deal with shifting "some" pavers.

Dan

bigviclbi
04-01-2006, 03:15 PM
Polysand and forget about it. Moving the wall would suck. I hate when stuff like this happens, but no one will notice except you. DEFINATELY don't screw around with it with the owners watching.

mbella
04-01-2006, 03:42 PM
Polysand and forget about it. Moving the wall would suck. I hate when stuff like this happens, but no one will notice except you. DEFINATELY don't screw around with it with the owners watching.

That's funny Vic. Did you ever have one of your guys come over while you are talking to a customer and say,"we have a problem."

Drafto
04-01-2006, 05:00 PM
Polysand and forget about it. Moving the wall would suck. I hate when stuff like this happens, but no one will notice except you. DEFINATELY don't screw around with it with the owners watching.

Too late. Homeowner was on the deck looking down while we were accessing the damage. I swear he tip-toed out and was watching! I think we are going to pull out the cut pavers and just get the soldier course a little closer to the wall then polysand.

I will sleep good tonight. Thanks to everyone who had some input.

Dan

P.S. I WILL BE SURE and post some pics when it is all done.

cgland
04-01-2006, 06:26 PM
Dan - Another thing you can do is pull up the soldier course and mark the high spots on the wall. Take an angle grinder and grind the spots down. Make sure you are below the sight line. Re-install the border and recut the body.



Chris

Drafto
04-01-2006, 06:59 PM
Dan - Another thing you can do is pull up the soldier course and mark the high spots on the wall. Take an angle grinder and grind the spots down. Make sure you are below the sight line. Re-install the border and recut the body.



Chris

Good idea Chris, I am going to do that, along with resetting the border like I mentioned above. Seriously Chris, thanks for NOT telling me to put this picture on my trailer :) .

Dan

YardPro
04-01-2006, 09:00 PM
That's what I said..I don't see why it is not an option.

because that would make the problem even more noticable.
you are using a wood "shim" to fill in two concrete products.... AAAAAAAARRRGGG. that yould probably be the absolute worst thing he could do.


My advise.....
get them moved a little, then use poly sand.. it is colored, and will harden like morter. it will be almost invisible.

I was told by a belgard rep that with polysand they will accept up to a 3/4" gap.

sheshovel
04-01-2006, 09:21 PM
I was just screwing around when I said that..I thought he could move the wall.It's sooo funny when you guys joke like that it is clearly understood but when I joke like that it is always taken seriously as a heart attack.

mbella
04-01-2006, 09:28 PM
because that would make the problem even more noticable.
you are using a wood "shim" to fill in two concrete products.... AAAAAAAARRRGGG. that yould probably be the absolute worst thing he could do.


My advise.....
get them moved a little, then use poly sand.. it is colored, and will harden like morter. it will be almost invisible.

I was told by a belgard rep that with polysand they will accept up to a 3/4" gap.

Yep. Some of the other suggestions involve a lot of work for, what I feel will be, little reward.

kris
04-01-2006, 09:36 PM
and its also a great example of how mistakes are made on a otherwise great looking patio... we've all made them and I don't care how long you have been doing this. In this situation you fix it the best you can , learn from it and move on.

Drafto
04-01-2006, 10:20 PM
and its also a great example of how mistakes are made on a otherwise great looking patio... we've all made them and I don't care how long you have been doing this. In this situation you fix it the best you can , learn from it and move on.

Wow Kris, thanks for saying everything else was great looking! And the lesson is learned, this will NOT happen to me again.

Dan

ynvvbr
04-01-2006, 11:02 PM
Dan,

if it does you each of us a 100 bucks???? lol

Rex Mann
04-02-2006, 04:04 AM
Dan,

I have read and re-read all the responses you have had to your question(s).

I suggest you re-build the wall. The homeowner is paying for a professional installation and his expectations may be more then you would be delivering if you do not fix it correctly. Why should he have to have to live with your learning curve mistake.
No company likes to eat away at profits or worse yet, break-even or loose money on any project. However, your personal reputation and integrity; being the owner, is at risk, as well as your company's. Reputation and integrity are worth much more than a quick fix, easy fix or calling it good.
In the end, do whats right for the client and those intangible things inside you, too.

Peace,

Rex

http://ArizonaPavers.Com

kris
04-02-2006, 07:27 AM
Dan,

I suggest you re-build the wall.
http://ArizonaPavers.Com

I'm not so sure that the wall is the issue Rex.

cgland
04-02-2006, 07:36 AM
from what I got, some of the block have high spots that are pushing the border out. I don't think the wall is crooked or anything. This is a very common problem with Coventry wall.

Chris

YardPro
04-02-2006, 07:59 AM
I was just screwing around when I said that..I thought he could move the wall.It's sooo funny when you guys joke like that it is clearly understood but when I joke like that it is always taken seriously as a heart attack.


sorry she.
did not know you were kidding.
didn't come across as a joke i guess...........

Drafto
04-02-2006, 08:00 AM
from what I got, some of the block have high spots that are pushing the border out. I don't think the wall is crooked or anything. This is a very common problem with Coventry wall.

Chris

I think I stated this above, the walls are within 1" of being paralell.

When anyone on here does a project like this with walls on both sides, or say a raised patio, are you guys telling me you DO NOT have any small cuts around the inside of the soldier course? In a raised application your walls are already there? The walls have to be built first, correct? They are set 6" lower the then pavers on the base. Maybe the sitting wall could have been set afterwards on the same paver base but when nothing is square, the house, the foundation walls, even the deck didn't seem square to anything. So I made sure my longest run of pavers, from the patio to the hill was paralell to the deck and this is what happened with my field.

Rex - I am on here to find a professional solution to fix this problem, trust me, I agree with everyhting you said, thats why I am here.

Dan

Drafto
04-02-2006, 08:23 AM
You can see from this pic the field couse is not perfectly square to the wall on the right, it is out by about 1". I think if I take CGlands advice and remove the high spots on the wall it will help a lot. I don't remember but if there is high spots towards the end of the wall it might end up being completely okay. The wall on the left is another issue. It is okay until we get up to the house (far left corner), the house foundation is extremely bowed here, over an inch out over the 7 foot face you can see. We have not even cut along the slider wall yet, but I can tell you guys, it is pretty bad (the wall). Odds are no matter what we do there will be some 1" gaps around the outside of this patio along these foundation walls.

Dan

UNISCAPER
04-02-2006, 10:20 AM
On that project I would have done the inside wall first using the 3,4,5' rule of measure to square the wall to the house. Then we wood have laid the patio. then we wood have marked where the next wall went and starightened out any pavers connecting the outside wall. It would have been more work, but if the paver patio was laid under where the wall was goingt o go, you could then cut it with the hand saw, removed the pavers, and installed the wall.

Hindsight is always 20-20

mbella
04-02-2006, 12:54 PM
On that project I would have done the inside wall first using the 3,4,5' rule of measure to square the wall to the house. Then we wood have laid the patio. then we wood have marked where the next wall went and starightened out any pavers connecting the outside wall. It would have been more work, but if the paver patio was laid under where the wall was goingt o go, you could then cut it with the hand saw, removed the pavers, and installed the wall.

Hindsight is always 20-20

Not Dan's.:laugh: :laugh: