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View Full Version : bobcat T300 or a case 450ct??


turboawd
04-01-2006, 12:09 AM
i've been leaning towards getting a track machine. buddy just got a new t300 and it is pretty nice....real nice cab.
the bobcat costs about 56k fully loaded
the case is almost 50k fully loaded.
while i see that the bobcat cab is more spacious and luxurious, how do these machines compare drivetrain wise? a guy i know had drive motor problems with his older t300. he eventually got rid of it for a takuechi. has bobcat updated anything?
case claims they have a strong drive motor. is this true?
what about performance between the two?
any input is apreciated.

Madstriper
04-01-2006, 12:17 AM
My dad has an equipment rental business, and he switched from a Bobcat skidsteer to the track loader, T180 I think, and he loves it. Very reliable, and thats with just about anybody using it. It is a rental, and half the folks that rent it have never been on a track loader. It seems each year Bobcat works hard to route the hydraulic lines so they are easier and easier to replace.
But just like everyone on here says about mowers, I think dealer support should be very high on your list of priorities for your decision.
My dad has been using Bobcat products for about 11 or 12 years now and has made alot of money with them. He hasnt tried other brands, mainly because he has an awesome dealer, Duhon Equipment, its way down in LaPlace, LA, but its worth the travel time. Sid Duhon is the owner, and he helped my dad get financed when no one else would. One time when there was NO WAY he could have qualified for a loan. The man is wonderful, he got hit hard by Katrina, but never shut down.

JDSKIDSTEER
04-01-2006, 06:51 AM
i've been leaning towards getting a track machine. buddy just got a new t300 and it is pretty nice....real nice cab.
the bobcat costs about 56k fully loaded
the case is almost 50k fully loaded.
while i see that the bobcat cab is more spacious and luxurious, how do these machines compare drivetrain wise? a guy i know had drive motor problems with his older t300. he eventually got rid of it for a takuechi. has bobcat updated anything?
case claims they have a strong drive motor. is this true?
what about performance between the two?
any input is apreciated.
T300 still has drive motor issues. I traded one in that had 2200 hrs on 1-1/2 years old and has had 3 drive motors replaced. He purchased 2 jd CT332's and loves them....much more power. He still has one T300 he purchased in may 2005 and had a drive motor go out in January and the other side went out in March. I demod him a jd CT322 and he used his 80" Multi purpose bucket with it and was very impressed with the power of the smaller unit. Personally before Deere came out with there machine Takuechi mama is what I suggested to my customers. They are my second choice. Deere out powers them and smoother ride, but if you are a big man it has roomier cab. Also I sold a friend a 50D excavator but he is big man with bad knees. I suggested a Hutchi mama for him. ASV has no dealer support in our area so I do not suggest them at all in our area. Cat has great customer support. I just an not a fan of their undercarraige. Takes to long to adjust tracks and bottom rollers do not hold up well in our rocky chert and clay soil conditions. If you have a good Deere dealer in your area you should give them a shot. Of course I am bias, but I have done well selling them against the competition. Price on Deere is very competitive. As far as case goes no dealer support in our area. Same as ASV.

Scag48
04-01-2006, 06:57 AM
Takuechi mama is what I suggested to my customers. They are my second choice. Deere out powers them and smoother ride

Sorry, but JD only wishes they produced a 97 HP machine. The TL150 will blow a 332 out of the water in regards to HP and torque. 291 foot/lbs. torque at 1400 RPM's is crazy.

RockSet N' Grade
04-01-2006, 08:21 AM
I had Bobcat drop 3 different machines off at my place so I could demo them. I am not a big guy, 5'9", so I fit easily in most cabs. After 20 minutes in each of the Bobcat machines, I called the rep and said pick them up....don't want any of them.
My experience was very poor visability out of the sides, and rear plus I could not see my bucket edges either left or right. In fact, out of all the machines I have demoed, Bobcat had the worst visability of any of them.

Caribbean Breeze
04-01-2006, 09:05 AM
Down the street from where I am, a friend has 2 T300's. One is a 2004 with 4,100 hours and a 2005 with 19++hrs. Her indicated to me recently that he has only changed tracks and done routine servicing. No other problems as he is about to buy another unit this month.

To say that the drive motors we and are defective, I don't think is fair and is probably isolated to a bad batch from a manufacturer.

The Cat dealer in Florida when I was looking at a 303CR, they were moving it and the hydrualic pump made a loud noise.... and that was it....but I think it is isolated to that one unit. It is not fair to say that the 303CR has pump issues.

I would choose Bobcat between the two because of the support in my area.

Thanks,

Caribbean Breeze

Squizzy246B
04-01-2006, 09:29 AM
Takes to long to adjust tracks and bottom rollers do not hold up well in our rocky chert and clay soil conditions. .

Well I'd believe the operator of 2 ASV's in a local quarry before I'd believe you. They have 5500 hrs between the two of them and they never get off the stone, gravel and clay. Tracks they wear out but nothing else to date.

AWJ Services
04-01-2006, 09:44 AM
With the extra weight of a big machine and an operator that is exceeding the machines abilities pretty much any machine can have pump motor failures.
I see guys digging up stumps as big as pickup trucks with .
I saw one guy who kept backing up over and over and ramming into the stump .

I would really be surprised if between the manufacturers the pump motors were that different.



I've been leaning to wards getting a track machine. buddy just got a new t300 and it is pretty nice....real nice cab.
the bobcat costs about 56k fully loaded
the case is almost 50k fully loaded.

I also will be purchasing a Track machine soon.

I have found that people tend too group skid steers together by Hp and in classes.

I found that it is much easier just too group them together by Price.

Take a TL140 and a T300 and they are very similar in capacities and ability too do there jobs yet there are 10 K difference between them.
Take a TL150 at the same price as a T300 and it blows it away.

The case machines look good on paper.
The big machine has a 7714 lb tipping capacity and good specs all over.
I would be hard pressed too justify the T300 being 7000 dollars better.

It seems too me that Bobcats as of late have been left in the dust (literally) by the competition price wise and performance wise.

The other manufacturers are really stepping up too the plate.
They are giving you more for less.

JDSKIDSTEER
04-01-2006, 10:49 AM
Sorry, but JD only wishes they produced a 97 HP machine. The TL150 will blow a 332 out of the water in regards to HP and torque. 291 foot/lbs. torque at 1400 RPM's is crazy.
97 HP is impressive on paper......I have had them side by side in the dirt. I do not sell my machine on paper. If you want to see paper compare tipping load,breakout forces, operating weight, hydraulic GPM, we offer hi-flow hydraulics. Paper is nice to pre sell. But I say you do not know unless you put them in the dirt. Power nice, but it is nice if you get power where you need it.

UNISCAPER
04-01-2006, 11:37 AM
I would get a 287 Caterpillar any day over any of the machines listed. They don't need 97HP because the variable pump works efficiently and does not waste hydraulic power like standard roots driven pumps and on side slope operations no rigid frame machine (otherwise called a premature track eater) will work as well.

MarcusLndscp
04-01-2006, 11:56 AM
I had Bobcat drop 3 different machines off at my place so I could demo them. I am not a big guy, 5'9", so I fit easily in most cabs. After 20 minutes in each of the Bobcat machines, I called the rep and said pick them up....don't want any of them.
My experience was very poor visability out of the sides, and rear plus I could not see my bucket edges either left or right. In fact, out of all the machines I have demoed, Bobcat had the worst visability of any of them.
Demo an ASV and you'll learn quickly what poor visibility is. We demoed Bobcat, Cat, and ASV last fall and went with the Bobcat T300.

janb
04-01-2006, 12:41 PM
Focus on CAT and ASV performance, then adjust your purchase to fit your local logistics
(sales, service, price, availability)

You definately want hyd that will run HiFlow + machine without compromising either function, and do consider undercarriage replacement costs and serviceability..; If you need 'high flotation' / loose soil operation consider the design of rollers and tracks, as 'footprint' (track pressure)- does not equal performance.

demo under your local conditions, get feedback from local users. Have very discerning ears when talking with ANY dealer staff :dizzy: , Trust the users, staff results vary with temperature (and ownership, and priorities)

AWJ Services
04-01-2006, 01:17 PM
Why High Flow Hyd.

Most have 21 gpm and that is almost 60 hp.

There are just a few peices of equipment that will need more.
The forrestry head will only work well on an ASV machine.
There have been overheating concerns with 40+ gpm machines at high loads.

Also the Cat 287 is a little lacking in lifting ability.
And it is expensive.

The ASV machines are really expensive for there capibilities also.

ksss
04-01-2006, 03:31 PM
Well I think it depends on what you plan on doing with the tracked machine. http://comparison.casece.com/display.php?SID=Q2FzZVNpdGU=

This link gives you the rough numbers. The 450CT is of course based on the 90XT/450 wheeled machine. If there is a better, more proven chassis designed for excavating I would like to know what it is. This chassis has one of the fastest cycle times in the industry. It is a very heavy duty design with great visibility. I doubt anyone that knows anything about skid steers will deny the 90XT/450 dominates the industry in the areas of excavating performance and working in extremely demanding work cycles. To steal an ad line from GMC, they are proffessional grade.

If you plan on more lift and carry type work. They both would serve equally well with the Bobcat having an easier time dumping to the center of dump trucks being vertical lift. The cabs on the new 400 series have improved greatly over the XT series. Not as much gadgetry as you will find in a Bobcat which to some it is better, others like having buttons to push. The cabs on the Bobcats are nice from a fit and finish standpoint. The CASE machines are more industrial looking while the Bobcat more automotive looking. Personally I like the Bobcat a little better. From a durability standpoint, I believe the base chassis design favors the 450 without a doubt, add the track system along with drive motors etc. they all run similiar components with most being Rex Roth. CASE claims to have a superior rigid undercarriage. Such claims are difficult to prove. I guess we'll see after sometime how true it is. What I know about drive motors is that the industry has yet to release a truly great drive motor for tracked machines. I know for a fact that Bobcat is not happy with their choices in drive motors on the open market. The Rex Roth units are good but no one has designed a great one. This is evident with some of the stories we have read on this thread and others about drive motor failure on CAT and Bobcat machines.

Everyone on this board is going to wave the flag of their favorite OEM. In the end it will require you to have both machines (preferably sitting in your yard at the same time) and run them against each other doing whatever type of work you plan on doing with them and make a decision.

Good luck.

7 IRON
04-01-2006, 09:58 PM
97 HP is impressive on paper......I have had them side by side in the dirt. I do not sell my machine on paper. If you want to see paper compare tipping load,breakout forces, operating weight, hydraulic GPM, we offer hi-flow hydraulics. Paper is nice to pre sell. But I say you do not know unless you put them in the dirt. Power nice, but it is nice if you get power where you need it.


Bravo!Well Said:drinkup:

Digdeep
04-03-2006, 09:17 AM
ASV has no dealer support in our area so I do not suggest them at all in our area. Cat has great customer support. I just an not a fan of their undercarraige. Takes to long to adjust tracks and bottom rollers do not hold up well in our rocky chert and clay soil conditions. If you have a good Deere dealer in your area you should give them a shot. Of course I am bias, but I have done well selling them against the competition. Price on Deere is very competitive. As far as case goes no dealer support in our area. Same as ASV.
I have to disagree with you on the track adjustment time on the ASV. I OWN a RC50 and I've tensioned my tracks twice in the time I've owned it and it only takes about 5 minutes. I don't know where you are getting your information, but it isn't necessary to adjust tracks on the ASV/CAT machines everyday, or every week, or even every month. I can't say the same thing for the Bobcat tracked machines I sold and this probably holds true for all of the tracked machines that use a grease tensioner. I also did a dealer search in your area and there is some ASV representation down there. I understand your enthusiasm to sell your brand (I used to sell too), but you need to understand that most people on this forum either own machines, or are looking to buy one. I may speak for myself here, but I'm interested in feedback from someone who has "experienced" these machines "in person". I can get opinions and spin from salesmen at a dealership without having to read it here. I like your posts, but I wish you would cool the flames, i.e. "they don't have dealer support here", "undercarriage doesn't hold up in our rock", etc. I'm just asking that you try to be objective instead of subjective when it comes to answering someone's questions.

JDSKIDSTEER
04-03-2006, 03:02 PM
I have to disagree with you on the track adjustment time on the ASV. I OWN a RC50 and I've tensioned my tracks twice in the time I've owned it and it only takes about 5 minutes. I don't know where you are getting your information, but it isn't necessary to adjust tracks on the ASV/CAT machines everyday, or every week, or even every month. I can't say the same thing for the Bobcat tracked machines I sold and this probably holds true for all of the tracked machines that use a grease tensioner. I also did a dealer search in your area and there is some ASV representation down there. I understand your enthusiasm to sell your brand (I used to sell too), but you need to understand that most people on this forum either own machines, or are looking to buy one. I may speak for myself here, but I'm interested in feedback from someone who has "experienced" these machines "in person". I can get opinions and spin from salesmen at a dealership without having to read it here. I like your posts, but I wish you would cool the flames, i.e. "they don't have dealer support here", "undercarriage doesn't hold up in our rock", etc. I'm just asking that you try to be objective instead of subjective when it comes to answering someone's questions.
The Vermeer Trencher dealer just took on the line in Decatur, but hardly have had time to build up support for the product and have very few in our area. I am not downing the product, they first approached us to take on the line. I am just stating a fact, a building with a few machines sitting out front and no support history means a lot. I do realize Deere has dealers in other areas the same way. Just because you have a Deere sign out front does not mean you are a good Deere dealer. I was just trying to state that I could not say much for ASV because I have no experience in our area with them. Sorry if I came off sounding bias against the ASV and I will try to cool the sales talk down.

Scag48
04-03-2006, 04:44 PM
Eh, don't worry about it too much. I would just watch out for the "name calling". I could say ALOT about Deere but I keep my mouth shut. See, I've already said too much :usflag: