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97firebird
04-01-2006, 01:33 PM
Hey guys, a friend of mine wants to know if there is really any quality difference between the "special" fertilizers that commercial fertilizers use (Chemlawn, Greenthumb, Lawn Doctors) and something like the Scott's fertilizer. Also, is there a difference between the grub killers? Any information would be appreciated. Thank You.

indyturf
04-01-2006, 02:53 PM
there are much better products on the market than scotts, but I would use scotts before calling TG. you can find a good quality product at Lesco, a garden center of co-op in your area. as far as grub control goes I prefer Merit, apply in mid June. it works as a preventive and disrupts the grubs digestive system so they starve to death. its one of the safest and most effective grub products on the market.

olive123
04-01-2006, 04:27 PM
you're kiddin right???
SCOTTS????????????
:laugh:

olive123
04-01-2006, 04:29 PM
in florida there is a scotts lawncare business run by the same scotts (fert company) a tg ripoff basically. I watched a couple guys on their first year of startup....they use lesco fertilizer!!! no joke.
:drinkup:

greenjack
04-01-2006, 05:00 PM
scotts is for people that want to do thier own lawn, it is a weak fert. so that people wont destroy their lawn because they dont know much about fertilizing.

97firebird
04-01-2006, 08:18 PM
Ok, so Lesco fertilizer is a good professional grade? If I were to apply it to his lawn could I just follow the instructions on the bag? I'm just new to the fertilizer applications and I certainly do not want to do any damage to his lawn before the wedding they are having in the back yard! Thanks for the replies guys.

dcondon
04-01-2006, 08:23 PM
My vote is for LESCO, I think it's one of the best!!! JMO:)

bntt68
04-01-2006, 08:31 PM
Ive had great results with Greenview products made by Lebanon.

SodKing
04-01-2006, 09:04 PM
Ok, so Lesco fertilizer is a good professional grade? If I were to apply it to his lawn could I just follow the instructions on the bag? I'm just new to the fertilizer applications and I certainly do not want to do any damage to his lawn before the wedding they are having in the back yard! Thanks for the replies guys.

Just make sure you follow the directions on the bag. Also make sure it contains no control products (pesticides) as it does not appear you are licensed.

griffy77
04-01-2006, 10:08 PM
Scotts has a van that runs around here just like TG and the rest. I suppose Scotts could be considered a commercial product. If you read the label its not much different from Lesco brand. Its all sulfur coated ferts. I have used both Scotts and Lesco and both worked equally the same however Lesco has more of competive pricing at least in my area.

If you are just fertilizing I would go which ever is cheaper. IMO

SodKing
04-02-2006, 09:46 AM
Scotts homeowner products are different from their commercial products. Scotts lawns service around here uses lesco products. I believe lesco actually manufactures scotts commercial ferts for them.

griffy77
04-02-2006, 10:23 AM
Scotts lawns service around here uses lesco products. I believe lesco actually manufactures scotts commercial ferts for them.[/QUOTE]

Interesting....never knew that.:confused:

josh mcguire
04-03-2006, 03:48 PM
The product that you see the scotts comercial guys using is as good as the lesco and in many cases it is lesco. They all make good products and as far as I know Scotts has a few patents on fert that make it better than the comercial fert that you can buy from lesco. That does not mean the applicators are profesional just the products.

teeca
04-03-2006, 05:30 PM
unless something has changed this year, ANDERSONS makes ALL of scotts professional products..

GreenUtah
04-03-2006, 06:05 PM
this thread is giving me a migraine, but ok, let's address the fact that regardless of who markets the fertilizer, a guaranteed analysis is a guaranteed analysis. the differences from there involve ratios and prill size, source of nutrient, form and coating. Why is that I did not ask one single person ask what the goal was for applying the fert, what current conditions were, size of property and equipment available for application? brand means nothing if you're out there grabbing the bottom of the bag and spinning around until it's all gone.

rmartin
04-03-2006, 08:26 PM
Now what about the lesco products that home-depot sells. What is the difference between the HD product and the "lesco sold" product? Other than the price is it the same quality?:cool2:

somo1
04-03-2006, 09:28 PM
The product that you see the scotts comercial guys using is as good as the lesco and in many cases it is lesco. They all make good products and as far as I know Scotts has a few patents on fert that make it better than the comercial fert that you can buy from lesco. That does not mean the applicators are profesional just the products.

Heres a story about a lovely lady that. Ever heard that line before? Owning a Scotts franchise, I can tell you that Scotts makes there own fertilizers. Their fertilizer is constantly tested, every batch to make sure it follows their strict guidelines. Andersons golf products used to be owned by Scotts, they just sold their golf fert. line to Andersons. The difference between Scotts and other fertilizers is the prill consistancy. Scotts is as close to round as can be. Why is this important? Because polymer coated fert. is a true slow release, how many of you have emptied a bag of sulfur dust and wondered where it came from. Its the coating! With a symetrical coating you get a more even distribution of nutrients from the prill.( Fertilizer leaches throught the path of least resistance, if its unround it will leach through the thin spots and feed more quickly.) One last note, Remember who developed commercial lawn fertilizers, Scotts did. Also Scotts employees are all trained and certified just like the rest of us.

kootoomootoo
04-03-2006, 09:58 PM
I use Anderson's ............have a pallet on the truck right now.
Smaller prill size than your typically available lesco product.

Lebanon and Spring Valley have some real nice products too.
Dont need to have 5000 "service center's" to be a good product.

teeca
04-03-2006, 10:23 PM
i use anderson also, a real good product. anderson is less then lesco in my area! and a better fert too.. the rep seems to be alot more 'cust friendly, then money hungry'.

teeca
04-03-2006, 10:30 PM
to be totaly honest, i wish that the price of NBN (slow release N) would come down and i would go with a total liquid application. a truly awsome result. the best part of a liquid app is YOU control the amount of product applied!!

fertit
04-04-2006, 10:28 AM
Scotts manufactures methylene urea, which they combine with P, K and minor elements to create Turfbuilder and LawnPro for consumer uses at their Marysville, OH facility. These are homogeneous particles and have excellent efficacy in use. They use this technology to combine control products with fertilizer as well. They do not last very long (4-8 weeks depending....). They also make a product called Poly-S (polymer & sulfur coated urea). This they either - sell to the Anderson's for their Pro line, or, they ship to a Lesco/other blending facility (which are no longer owned by Lesco) and made into Scotts Lawn Care blends for their LCO business. Scotts quality in lawn products is unquestionably the highest in the consumer industry. They exited the pro business in 1999 because professionals either- wouldn't pay for the quality, or- started using less expensive materials, entering a market segment Scotts couldn't make any money at.

Bottom line- If you see Scotts on sale at Home Depot and it fits your budget, it's not likely you'll find a better quality out there for efficacy. Lesco fans- Lesco has nice people and their service in most cases is excellent- that is why they are successful in this market. Their products are not superior however. For premium blended products, check with blenders/formulators that use higher quality SCU/PSCU than Lesco uses and for optimum result, use more than 50% SCU in the blend- otherwise, it's a crap shoot on longevity.

Grassmechanic
04-04-2006, 12:32 PM
Scotts quality in lawn products is unquestionably the highest in the consumer industry.
Maybe for the consumer, but for those that know a little about fert, Scott's leaves a lot to be desired. The only good fert Scotts makes is Osmocote. Their lawn ferts are too high in chlorine content for my tastes.

GrazerZ
04-04-2006, 12:40 PM
fertit,
Do you work for Scotts or any other fert manufacturing company? I read over some of your posts and its obvious you hate lesco and love nitroform and scotts. If you do, come out of the closet already...

josh mcguire
04-04-2006, 12:46 PM
Scotts purchased my family business 4 years ago the second largest company they have ever purchased. The company has changed alot since the sale including the caliber of the reps. I am not saying that you as a franchise owner do not have skilled people I am saying that from what I have seen SLS reps in my area have less training than they had when we owned the company.

somo1
04-04-2006, 10:36 PM
Scotts purchased my family business 4 years ago the second largest company they have ever purchased. The company has changed alot since the sale including the caliber of the reps. I am not saying that you as a franchise owner do not have skilled people I am saying that from what I have seen SLS reps in my area have less training than they had when we owned the company.

That could very well be right, I know alot of companies require that their technicians be commercial applicators and others just require a tech. license. I not saying that Scotts LawnService has the best techs nobody does for that matter. I just saying that I do believe that they have the best fert. I've seen and used alot of different brands and can tell a difference. But if I wanted to get technical, alot of the results depends on the amount applied. Like I tell my customers when they ask what blend I am using. It doesn't matter what blend, it matters in the quantity applied.

lilmarvin4064
04-05-2006, 03:14 PM
Scotts is just hype, marketing, and a pretty bag. Yes, they have good quality ferts that work but are not the best by any means. Turfbuilder contain methylene ureas, and SOP which is good but...

(not sure about all analysis') only 23% of the N is slow-release. Do not have enough K (for my region). Plus, Halts is old-school (pendimethalin) a big root pruner. Oh yeah, a funny thing about the Scotts program that is recommended for my region, is that they only tell you to apply Halts once, which really doesn't work that well. You have to do it twice.

I will give you that N prills on the Poly-S is probably more consistant than Lesco's Poly-Plus, but really how big of a differance could that be.

Have you checked out Lesco's Polyvex fertilizers. They contain methylene ureas AND Poly-plus sulpher coated urea, and SOP, usually 65% to 90% controlled release N from different sources; A much better product than Turfbuilder.

Lebanon makes some good ferts too.

Ralph Leach
04-08-2006, 05:27 PM
Hey guys the fertilizers are for the most all the same. It all comes from the same mines from different brokers who wholesale to Lesco, Scotts and others. The anylsis is the same if it states a 10 - 16 - 24 its the same in all bags. When buying and applying check to see on the back of the bag to see if it has Iron. This micronutrient promotes a deep green. Broom your sidewalks because it will stain the concrete. Sulfur coated urea (N) seems to promote a longer and more even green without burning.

teeca
04-08-2006, 08:04 PM
Hey guys the fertilizers are for the most all the same. It all comes from the same mines from different brokers who wholesale to Lesco, Scotts and others. The anylsis is the same if it states a 10 - 16 - 24 its the same in all bags. When buying and applying check to see on the back of the bag to see if it has Iron. This micronutrient promotes a deep green. Broom your sidewalks because it will stain the concrete. Sulfur coated urea (N) seems to promote a longer and more even green without burning.
you might want to re-think that.. there different types of N P K. on your example, yes 10% of that bag by weight is N, but you need to read further down and see what percent is slow release, how much chlorien, sulfer. same for the P and K

YardPro
04-09-2006, 08:58 AM
scotts is for people that want to do thier own lawn, it is a weak fert. so that people wont destroy their lawn because they dont know much about fertilizing.


what?????????

there is no difference in the strength of fertilizers with the same analysis....

the difference is wether they are slow or fast release.

scott's is not "weaker" than any other brand.......
the difference is in the prill size, the type and quality of the slow release coating..etc.

bug-guy
04-09-2006, 11:23 AM
i work for one of the leaders in the green industry for 4 months now.
i have worked in the service industry for 20 yrs.
fertilizers of the same analysis are not always equal.
as a professional you need to look for a product that is consistant in particile
size with a blend for your area and not dusty.This will help in uniform coverage
in fla here i like a complete fert (all three #'s) with a blend of quick and slow release as well as a good minor package as well as iron with not to much chlorine (lawns need some )

Ralph Leach
04-09-2006, 12:25 PM
Actually N P & K are the same with no difference as long as the particle size are equal. The only real difference would be in slow release ( Sulfur Coated ). The P and K are the same in all bags... again if the part size are of good quality. For the money.... using a starter blend in most applications is of good $ value. Most of it is a marketing gimmick, do you really need a different analysis every month? Wouldn't you rather have a high # for P & K in the months of stress. Because if you run a high N for most applications with high rainfall or high irrigation most is leached out. And if you run into stress from sun/heat the both P & K provide both nutrients for plant health. Just my 2 cents, it might not work for you but has for me.

bug-guy
04-09-2006, 01:10 PM
there are many different sources for each
nitrogen for examlpe ammoniaca vs urea
potash muriate vs sulfate
don't even start with coatings for slower release
15 yrs ago when i sent our guy's to our supplier
i had to have them ask for the blend of 16-4-8 we used
there was 3 differnent ones

when your really bored 1 day go to home depot and look at the label for some ferts than go to the local professional supplier and look at the label
same product different sources
different $
all ferts should turn lawns green
the difference is
how fast
how green
how long will it last
how for will it go (lbs/ k ft sq)
how much it cost
it's the old story
it's not rocket surgery
you get what you pay for

I.M.P.O.

milike
03-10-2009, 07:13 AM
Now what about the lesco products that home-depot sells. What is the difference between the HD product and the "lesco sold" product? Other than the price is it the same quality?:cool2:

HD is now selling Lesco:confused::confused:

cod8825
03-10-2009, 08:42 AM
OK!

Not all fertilizers are the same period. Different blends, content, prill size, sources amoung others. I own my own fert business and I think Scott's sells a good product for the DIY'ers. Do I wish every homeowner who wanted to fert their yard used use YES! I think though with the way scotts is going I was at Home Depot and they sold fert + Pendi at almost $70 a bag for $15K coverage that's awesome.

turf hokie
03-10-2009, 09:16 AM
HD is now selling Lesco:confused::confused:

Nothing new, they actually are allowed to sell RUP productst to homeowners because they changed the wording on the bag.I argued with the state that the wording on the bag does not change what is in the bag but I should have just had the conversation with a wall.

The difference in what we got at Lesco and what H/D sells is apparantly only the difference in a skew number and maybe one or two points on N-P-K.

i.e. 24-5-11 at lesco would be 25-4-12 at H/D all else is the same. I have never noticed any other real difference. We bought some 12-12-12 from them when they were giving it away and it really was no different than the 14-14-14 you get at lesco.

Runner
03-10-2009, 02:20 PM
I know. hey had some phenomenal deals on old leftover stuff in the late fall/early winter, too.
Before, there was a difference in the Lesco ferts that HD was carrying. The slow release and iron percentages were different, and it didn't have the miro's in it. Lesco was mixing a whole different blend just for HD. I don't know now, though...I haven't looked at a bag in the HD in a while. Granted, I think I bought a bag or two of starter last year from there in a pinch (I have a HD just about 5 minutes from my home).

Rusty Hook
03-10-2009, 07:17 PM
Scotts homeowner is homogenized. The commercial is not. If they are using lesco they shouldn't be. And if so, it would only be to save money. Each branch, whether franchise, or corporate, is checked twice a year. The techs are also state certified. And scotts is suppose to bring training to each branch, for there own certification. Which is more than I can say for 98% of all the john, dick, and harry lawn services out now. Scotts fert or lesco it doesn't matter. Fert is pretty much fert. I like both of them.

Jason Rose
03-10-2009, 08:51 PM
Scotts homeowner is homogenized. The commercial is not. If they are using lesco they shouldn't be. And if so, it would only be to save money. Each branch, whether franchise, or corporate, is checked twice a year. The techs are also state certified. And scotts is suppose to bring training to each branch, for there own certification. Which is more than I can say for 98% of all the john, dick, and harry lawn services out now. Scotts fert or lesco it doesn't matter. Fert is pretty much fert. I like both of them.

None of the Scotts lawn care branches use "Scotts" brand fertilizer. THey shop around and use the same products most of us use, be it Lesco, UHS, Lebanon, etc. The first time I heard of it I got a good laugh out of it too... Scotts is nothing more than a name used as a marketing tool.

So far as being "state certified", everyone that does chemical apps must have the same certification. Scotts people are getting the same training from the state as I am, it's just that they have their own "training program" for their employees and can train and certify in house, and anyone that has a number of techs out there can do the same thing.

Lesco fert at Home Depot is nothing new either. I noticed last year that their bags were 48 pound instead of 50. perhaps something to do with the total pallet weight, including the pallet, having to be 2K lbs or under?

Rusty Hook
03-10-2009, 09:25 PM
As far as using scotts commercial grade fert. I know for a fact it is being used and is way overpriced. The companies are audited twice per year by a regional manager. State certified is a joke. You go down and take a test until you pass. No hands on training. And unless you have worked for them how would you know about the training program? I have worked for 3 local companies here, and believe me you don't get thorough training, and are not held to strict guidelines. If you are a franchise, and do not comply with the rules, they can come take it at anytime.

Whitey4
03-10-2009, 09:28 PM
The Scotts retail residential stuff is good, very good in fact, but with some caveats. The NPK is all inside every prill, it's homogenized. Prill size is very uniform. If it's a combo product, the AI is coated onto each prill. Very uniform distribution.

The problem is too much damned N. I will use the straight 4th step fert, which is not a combo product if I can find it cheap. Same for the winterizer fert. It's a superior product.

Thing is, I don't want a 31-1-3 with pendi for my CB app. Pendi has to be applied twice in my zone, number one, but in order to get a barrier, that much N is not only bad for mowing, it generates WAY too much leaf growth in the spring, at the cost of root development.

The biggest complaint I get is because the Trugreens and DIY's using Scotts get an early green up. Kicking the turf into forced top growth means less energy to the roots, and more cool season summer grass burn in August.

Scott's fert technology is second to none. It's the formulations that suck.

greendoctor
03-11-2009, 02:27 AM
I know DIYers who use the straight Scotts 29-2-4. The sand sized homogeneous prills with no beads of poly coat or SCU are good for the reel mower cut lawns we have here. My only gripe against this formula is the ratio of N to K and the P. Grass here needs at least a 2:1 ratio of N to K or it does not deal with the heat and humidity very well. Most soils here have lots of P either naturally or because at some point in time lots of 16-16-16 was applied to it. Water Smart my foot, a lawn fed Scotts needs lots of water or it will wilt. However, used to apply 1 lb of N every 6 weeks, the grass is as green as if I were fertilizing it.