New Trailer needs no ramp

[fdew]

A while back I asked this forum to have some fun and tell me what the perfect mower would be.<br>(I'm a mechanical designer so this is my idea of fun.) One person on the forum and one local friend told me to work on a better trailer. One where there would be no time lost getting on and off it. I have designed the trailer. You can see it at http://www.lbpinc.com/trailer.html<p>I need your help. I am not a landscaper so I don't know what is good and what isn't I would like to design and build this product but I want it to be the way you think it should so please take a look and tell me what is good and what is bad. And most important, Is it worth anything at all to save the time of putting the ramp up and down.<p>Some sample questions<br>1.Is this of any value.<br>2.Do you want to control it from the truck or the mower seat so you can jump on the mower, start it, and drive off with zero delay. How long a delay on lift is to long 10 sec (while you climb off and walk to the truck.) 20 sec? <br>3.The trailer can't be duel axle. But it could use the same tire and wheel as your truck Would that be important.<br>4.The floor is open grating for strength, light weight and non slip. Is this good? Is wood better?<br>5.What size should it be? Or should there be a large and a small.<br>Hit it guys. Don't be nice and don't be shy. I want professional input.<p>If the response os positive I will build them.<p>Frank

[DMC300]

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME SORT OF REAR GATE THAT WENT UP AND DOWN DURING THIS DROPPING PROCESS.MORE OF A SAFETY FEATURE,I'M SURE D.O.T WOULD ALSO.THE SINGLE AXLE WOULD HAVE TO BE VERY STOUT,AS WOULD THE FRAME.THE WIDTH WOULD HAVE TO BE A FACTOR ALSO,6'6&quot;MIN. (BARELY ENOUGH ROOM FOR 72&quot; ZTR) IN MY CASE I WOULD MOUNT A BOX,TRIMMER STAND,TWO MOWERS EACH AT 1000lbs.GREAT IDEA,KEEP GOING! <p>----------<br>DON<br>LIANNES' MOWING

[ProCut Lawn Service]

I agree, I would prefer to have a rear gate also. I know of to many instances where mowers have slid off the rear, even when tied down.<p>----------<br>ProCut Lawn Service<br>Lakeland, Fl

[gene gls]

This would be great for Winter,moving a tractor with blower,small skid steer or any thing else that would fit. No slipery ramps. I seen a small trailer advertised two years ago that had a cable + crank arrangement that pivoted the axle.I lost the ad and haven't seen it again. I had a snow route that I was going to use my Walker mower with a blower on instead of my truck+plow because of close quaters but the departure angle on my trailer would not allow loading. This would have been perfect.

[gene gls]

Put some kind of locking bar accross the back for safty.

[Lazer]

Neat Concept.<p>I think the guys who would utilize a single axle trailer wouldn't want to spend the money on what this trailer would cost.

[fdew]

OK. Thanks for the input so far. A rear gate is easy. It will be automatic. (Drops when the trailer contacks the road.) 3000 lb, a little wider, Tell me more.<p>Thanks again<p>Frank

[Alan]

Hey Lazer, just what was that remark about a guy who would buy a single axle trailer supposed to mean? For all the weight we actually have on a mowing trailer you don't need a tandem, it's just that nobody builds a single axle with enough deck space. The limitation is NOT the axle ratings, it's easy enough, and totally practical, to get 6,600 pounds GVW on a single axle trailer. And spare me the stuff about tandems towing &quot;better&quot;, it's how well aligned the trailer is and how it's balanced that determines towing stability, not the number ot tires you're wearing out. I haven't looked at this new setup yet, but I will, sounds like a decent idea to me.

[lawrence stone]

Alan wrote:<p>&gt;And spare me the stuff about tandems towing &quot;better&quot;, <p>Try towing a 16ft single axle travel trailer<br>vs. a 16ft tandem axle travel trailer.<br>Then you would have enough experince not<br>to make such a ridiculous statement.

[Alan]

Frank, I just visited your site. I like the concept of the trailer! I build trailers as a sideline, so I know some about what is involved. One main concern I would have is that the spindles will be attached to the swing arms that carry the load. With no axle beam going full width there will be some VERY serious bending moments generated any time you hit a bump. The air bags will be more forgiving than springs would be, but over time there will be a tendency to create negative camber which is going to affect towing stability. Would there be room for an axle beam under the chassis? Another question/comment, what will you use for bushings where the swing arms attach to the frame? That is another place where wear will degrade towing characteristics.

[Alan]

Sorry Lawrence, but I tend to think that I may have as much, if not more, experience towing that the bulk of the people on here. Maybe YOU need to learn a little about how to set a trailer up for towing. And maybe even a little about not flapping your lips about others &quot;experience&quot; levels unless you know them a little. The forces generated in the suspension of a trailer are centered on ONE point, no matter how many axles you have under it. For what we're carrying on our trailers, maybe 3,000 pounds of load with a low center of gravity, I'll stand on my remarks. A PROPERLY set up, single axle, trailer is more than adequate for our needs and costs less in tires and fuel to accomplish the same goal. My own trailers are 14' on a single 3500 lb torsion axle. Normal load is a hydro walk behind and a ZTR. Occasional load is a compact utility tractor with loader and landscape rake. Interstate speeds offer no problems, but then again, when I built them I took time to align them right, I keep tires properly inflated and balance the load properly.

[lawrence stone]

Alan wrote:<p>&gt;My own trailers are 14' on a single 3500 lb torsion axle. <p>Those torsion axles are complete junk.<br>REAL trailers have steel axles running the<br>width of the trailer with leaf springs.

[GrassMaster]

Hello:<p>This looks like a good idea, but a few questions?<p>Can it be applied very easy to a dual axel trailer? Because from experience I've found that a single axel trailer will basically beat your equipment to death.<p>Also what if you have 2 Ztr's loaded & you only want to unload the rear one, will this setup be able to lift one ZTR on the front safely & allow you to unload the rear with no problems.<p>The main thing is it eliminates the gas robbimg tailgate sticking up in the air?<p>----------<br>GrassMaster - Home: www.lawnservicing.com<br>My Start Up Page www.lawnservicing.com/startup/

[lawrence stone]

Frank,<p>The extra time it took to use tie straps to<br>hold your equipment down from falling off the<br>back of the trailer would take more time to<br>complete than just lowering a gate manually.<p>Since the air pump or the lines could fail (leak) at any time if that happened while<br>the trailer is down you could not move the trailer until you found another replacment<br>motor which might take a week.<p>I don't think any of our customers would like<br>having to look at a landscape trailer full<br>of mowers in front of thier house for a week.<p>Those who have used air adjustable shock absorbers know of the problems with the lines<br>leaking.

[steveair]

Not that I want to get involved in this conversation, but Tandems are great for one reason. If you blow a tire, you have a back up.<p>I don't trailer much, but the few times that I have, I have had this occurence. With all the weight on a single, I would rather have the tandem and have that extra margin of safety. That alone seems to make the tandem worth it.<p>steveair

[Alan]

Lawrence Stone wrote:<p>&gt;&gt;Those torsion axles are complete junk.<br>REAL trailers have steel axles running the<br>width of the trailer with leaf springs.&lt;&lt; <p>I wonder where you got THAT observation from? Wells Cargo makes probably the best enclosed trailers on the market, and THEY run torsion axles. They probably do that becasue they want the bad press they would get for using &quot;junk&quot;. I'm sure you have some reason for your opinion, why not try backing it up with some facts? Torsion axles have been on the market lng enough to have been disproved if they were not feasible. Any other jewels of wisdom to add?<p> <br>

[AB Lawn Care]

I like the idea!I have an idea for the rear gate problem.Have a small rear gate that will be large enought to hold in the mowers(i don't think it would have to be bigger than a foot tall)When the trailers rear end hits the ground have some sort of swich the would un-lock or release the ramp.Useing some struts it would lower by it's self.What do you think?Let me know!<p>from:Adam<p>AB Lawn Care

[fdew]

Great input. Thanks so far.<p> Let me address some questions. <br>1.First this is not a torsion axle design. The design uses air suspension just like high end tractor trailer rigs. Therefor it should offer a very soft (and adjustable) ride so it wont beat up equipment. <br>2.Next loss of air. Of course it will be up to me to use good quality stuff that is protected from physical damage but there is a back up. The air bags are out where you can get at them so to get going in an emergency you just disconnect the line and inflate the bag with any compressor or with a portable air tank. If the compressor motor fails then take your home shop compressor and slide it in the back of the truck and keep going until parts arrive.<br>3.The swing arm. I should have explained that the arm you see is welded to a 4 in sq tube that goes under the trailer to the center therefor the arm has two bearings spaced 3 feet apart. The arm and the cross tube must be quite stiff but the bearing should have a pritty easy time of it. As for the arm bearings, I am planning on using a new tapered roller bearings that is designed for oscillating use <br>4.I will add a rear gate to the design this weekend. If you look closely at the pix on the web page you will see that there is a short &quot;ramp&quot; at the back to go from the road up to the 3 in high floor. I have sketched a ramp that flips up when the trailer is up forming a tail gate. It is completely automatic and it is only about 6 in high.<br>5.To unload one mower the entire trailer lowers so both mowers will be at a 3.5 deg angle so the parking break must be set or the wheels chocked to prevent rolling There is no problem lifting the mower.<p>Thanks again and keep the input coming <p>Frank

[thelawnguy]

I saw something very similar advertised in the latest issue of lawn and Landscape. If I can find it Ill refer the mfrs name to you. Dont want any patent infringements on your hands now do you?<p>Bill

[Charles]

I don't think I have ever seen a quality 14 foot single axel trailor that didn't bouce all over the place. I like the extra tires in case of a flat too. I have had many of those. My trailor is a 6/1/2' x 14' long. I really need a 18'. I dont think I would like a drop trailor unless you had compartments up front for gas tanks and a spare tire. nah i wouldn't like it anyway becaue the front mower on the trailor would get jared on the drop. And you do have to have a tail gate or ramps. I use the ramps to work on the blades and undo things that might wrap around them.&*^%$ trailor parks.

[Lazer]

Alan,<br>My remark about spending money on a single axle trailer is that you can buy a nice one with a gate for 7-800.00 and I don't think this concept would be cost competitive for that.<p>As far as the rest of the remarks, I don't know if they were directed at me or not, but most of the guys I know wouldn't be able to use a single axle trailer for their lawn crews.<p>I've used a variety of trailers and have built 7 myself, so I'll be watching for more discussion.<p>As far as towing better, I've found that tandems and triples tend to sway less. You can't load a single with the payload center behind the axle. On tandems and tri that point is farther back, no?<p>Stone, my experience has been very good with torsion axles.

[lawrence stone]

Lazer wrote:<p>&gt;Stone, my experience has been very good with torsion axles. <br> <br>In my part of the world torsion axles on a<br>single axle trailer will be worn out in less than two years. The roads are so bad you<br>have to see it to believe it.<p>When I used to drag race motorcycles some<br>guys would buy those Hallmark cargo trailers<br>with single torsion axles. They were all unhappy with them sold them and bought Car-Mates or other brands with leaf springs and solid axles.

[cantoo]

My trailer is torsion axle, 14' long and I built it myself. The reason I use torsion axles is for low road height, it sits 10&quot; off the road at the ramp. The ramp is 24&quot; long and isn't steep at all. The only problem with most single axle trailers is centering the load, I set the axle so that the Walker is balanced properly when it's loaded. I usually build my trailers so that the bed is actually on a slope so that the trailer ramp doesn't have to be as high. I built my hitches on my truck and van so that they both slope the same. I'm not even sure how many trailers I have built over the years, too senile to remember. As for tires blowing, I put new tires on every Spring and sell the old ones for 1/2 price at auctions. I have yet to have a flat on the road. Proper inflation is very important.

[thelawnguy]

http://www.biljax.com/<p>They already make something very similar, from what I can tell. Contact them for more info.<p>Bill

[fdew]

I sent for there info last week as soon as the add in Lawn and Lanscape was mentioned.<br>(They don't show the trailer on the web site.) If there trailer works the same way OR if it does the same thing then I will quit. I have no desire to produce the same product as someone else. Thanks for mentioning it.<br>Stay tuned.

[EDL]

I saw a dual axle with no gate today, that tilts up. It was more of a car trailer but could easily have side rails installed, i need to guy by the dealership later in the week and will get the name of it and take a closer look

[cjcland]

couldnt you just have a gate on it that automatically lifts with a wench a good way to control it would be to use a car alarm remote or something it could run off a battery and also you could mount an alternater with a type of prop on the alt. that turns from the wind hitting it(like an alt. on an airboat) it would be fairly inexpensive and you could mount it on any trailer or you could just build the actually mechanism for people who already have the trailer. just a thought....<p>----------<br>CJC Landscape Management<br>Winter Haven, Florida

[Alan]

cjcland writes &quot;couldnt you just have a gate on it that automatically lifts with a wench?&quot;<p>But she'd have to be a husky gal to lift the gate, and then there's wages and insurance and all that other stuff. I'd try to rig up a WINCH instead

[cjcland]

yea good point, i hear they can be pretty mean too<p>----------<br>CJC Landscape Management<br>Winter Haven, Florida