Lots of Info here..BUT!!!

[kris]

I will start this by saying that there is lots of info at this site and that for the most part I really enjoy it. What is bothering me is all the mention of "scrubs,Getto aparments,low lifes" etc etc. Did everyone who uses these phrases start out with a brand new truck and equipment? Did you never "lowball" by mistake? Did you grow up in a fancy neighbor hood where drug and alcohol was never part of the makeup? It is my opinion and only mine that these phrases should not be used... Do I think that because I am now more fortunate then some others that I am better than anyone else??? Absolutely not!!! I welcome competition and am well aware that some day that so called scrub may be a top notch business man/women with a thriving company.

[cos]

Let me tell ya, we live in a day in age where most people think living in the ghetto and the slums is cool. Hell we even have a person here that braged and lied that he grew up in a gang and then posted that he thanks god that he grew up in a loving and middle class christian home. Lets face it, yes most of us didn't start out with a new truck, but when we have someone out there that is willing to cut someone that has been in the biz for years and then do work that is less than proffessional, than more or less the word scrub can be used to describe such a person. More often than not, the person that shows up in a beat up truck that can't hardly pass inspection and probably don't even pay insurance is not the person I want to describe as being a landscape professional.

[Eric ELM]

As I have posted before, we all started at the bottom unless the lawn business was handed down to us and it wasn't handed over to me.

Low ballers do not bother me, their work reflects their price and they soon go out of business. I lost a customer to one a few years ago and within 1 month, they wanted me back, but I raised the price $5 a cut and they still wanted me. These lower priced guys know the value of their work and I know the value of mine.

When I bid the lawn below, they called me for the bid. This was a referral from their friend that we do. They told me that I was $15 higher than their present LCO. I said are you happy with them? They said no. Their lawn was thin and weedy. I told them I could get it looking like their friends lawn, but it wouldn't happen over night. I told them what all I would have to do to get it in shape. I asked them to try me for one season and if it didn't look better at the end, go back to your other LCO. You get what you pay for. This was 3 years ago and they have been a great steady year around customer and they have given us referrals too.

I wish I had a before picture, but here is an after. ;)
http://elmlawnsite.com/images/piercefront.jpg

[Twotoros]

I calls as I sees 'um.
Too many folk take and do not give back. They choose to live like animals. We can't run behind them 24/7 and clean up their litter. Therefore I judge them as "low".
Heck they might make it to heaven where I might not as I am judging them. I keep my property clean as do my neighbors. Why can't they take on some responsibilty .

Yes my first truck was a 10 year old dodge in 1986 with a new 21" and trimmer but I was licensed from day one. The next year I bought a new truck which I still use and I am still licensed. I won't budge from making 43$ an hour as a solo operator. Someone who works for half that is a scrub. Someone who works on the sly is a scrub. Someone who does bad work is a scrub.

I believe harsh words are necessary.

[geogunn]

the scrub talk and condecending attitudes posted here on occasion used to bother me when I first joined the forum.

but I soon learned that my profit margin is probably as high as anyones here.

and that makes this scrub feel pretty darned good.

GEO

[cos]

Kudos twotoros,

I worked hard to keep my azz out of the slums. If I have to work harder than I will. I do feel that some people are down on their luck and that some people do need help, but when you work less than 40 hrs. a week and don't even try to earn your keep, then don't try to cry the blues to me. I am glad that they rid the country of the welfare system, and the only ones that cried the blues about it was the Democrats. I really don't need to here someone telling me that they have been oppressed for years and that life is hard for them, when it is us, the working class, that usually end up paying their way somehow.

[kris]

I said my peace and will say no more.. I agree that people get what they pay for.
PS. Eric..that is one great looking property..you should be proud!!!

[TJLC]

Originally posted by Twotoros
I calls as I sees 'um.
Too many folk take and do not give back. They choose to live like animals. We can't run behind them 24/7 and clean up their litter. Therefore I judge them as "low".
Heck they might make it to heaven where I might not as I am judging them. I keep my property clean as do my neighbors. Why can't they take on some responsibilty .

Yes my first truck was a 10 year old dodge in 1986 with a new 21" and trimmer but I was licensed from day one. The next year I bought a new truck which I still use and I am still licensed. I won't budge from making 43$ an hour as a solo operator. Someone who works for half that is a scrub. Someone who works on the sly is a scrub. Someone who does bad work is a scrub.

I believe harsh words are necessary.

I work for $20.00 an hour. I'm am fully licensed and insured from day one. All my equipment is commerical grade and new or nearly new, and in excellent shape, and I do very good quality work. But I am a solo operator and do work for $20.00 per hour because, that it all my market will bear. Am I a scrub. I don't think so!

[AGG Lawn Maintenance]

Eric hit the nail on the head. These guys don't bug me at all. I had two accounts last year that I lost to a low baller. Guess who called me back this year. I will never under cut to pick up any jobs. I had a job just this week that I estimated. This complex had 13 Commercial buildings. Needless to say I didn't pick it up, but I'm not mad. It is what it is. Not all jobs you estimate you pick up. I am not going to do a rush job because I priced wrong. So to all the scrubs out there I thank you for @#@#$ing up. In the end it just makes my work stick out that much more, As the old saying goes you get what you pay for.
Travis
AG&G Lawn Maintenance

[lawnman_scott]

I have a question some of you say you lost an account to a "scrub", how do you know this? do you go back to see, you have that much spare time?

[bobbygedd]

i cant say too much about the scrub thing, last time i ran my big mouth i think i insulted alot of people. anyway, my equipment is not great but the best i can afford. i do just as good or better of a job than the guy with the $8000 walker machine, it may take me 5 min more. i had 4 houses in a row and lost 3 of them to an inexperienced lowballer, the 4th one stuck with me. the lawn i do looks great, the other 3 look HORRIBLE, and when i go to cut this lawn, the 3 neighbors all wave and say hi and i can see it in their eyes(and the condition of their property) they will be back

[KirbysLawn]

Funny thing is, most of the "scrub" discussions are started by threads such as this. If you don't want hear about them then don't bring it up. Don't want to talk about it then don't post.

It seems the topic flares uo every few weeks. Everyone has an opinion, make $40 an hour, has license, have insurance, blah, blah, blah.

In many eyes here I'm also a scrub, and I did start out with new equipment, I'm licensed & insured, I bid the going rate for professional services, and I do good work. Who cares? I have my opinion just as you do, just wish everyone ran a honest, tax paying business.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=681893&a=4967155&p=45359841&Sequence=0&res=high

[parkwest]

Originally posted by lawnman_scott
I have a question some of you say you lost an account to a "scrub", how do you know this? do you go back to see, you have that much spare time?

Once had property manager tell me they found a college kid willing to mow for $9000/season less than us. He said he told the owner they would get what they paid for but the owner said for that price it was worth the risk. Drove by on my rounds and saw the kid in the middle of this large property mowing with 21" pusher.

[JJ Lawn]

Originally posted by KirbysLawn
I have my opinion just as you do, just wish everyone ran a honest, tax paying business.

Good point, there are many kinds of scrubs. Just wonder how many other professionals report all their income to the IRS ??

I do.... do ya'll??

Jim

[CSRA Landscaping]

Oh, what fun.

[Twotoros]

TJLC, I would move. I only take home 30% after tax and expense. How do you do it? That would be less than min wage in my state(6.72$)
CSRA, Yes I report every nickel. I need to put all in the bank in case I want some credit(house,car etc).
Without proof of income I would be out in the cold.
I too am sick of the scrub talk but not half as sick as watching them get all the jobs. Over 15 bids in 4 weeks and not one taker. I have a 20 dollar min. How sad is that?

[awm]

im not fond of labels for PEOPLE. i agree with erics
post that everyboody eventually will get what they pay for
and so let people choose what they want.what we are talking about is a mix (on this forum) of beginners,part timers,solo operators and larger lco services.
considering the audience there is bound to be contention.
this broad spectrum of people have vastly different goals and ideas.nuuf said yaw have a good day.

[sgreanbean]

in my area unfortanatly we dont really have a scrub! this is such a cut throat business here. what you all described as a scrub describes our largest LCO! they have about 25 crews and the do really bad work. they co,e in against us and will under cut us to the point that they will actually do an account for free to put sombody out on the street! this is no B.S.! Does anybbody else have this problem!

[CSRA Landscaping]

Hey, Gary, I never questioned whether you reported it all. I just thought it was funny that the other guy was pushing it.

[Island Lawn]

Kirbys Lawn!?!
Ray, if you're a scrub, then what am I?

I've got the whole mix of competition here.
There are some new boys with big toys this year and what they haven't gobbled up, the price cutters have!

Thank God none of last years annual customers have dropped me (100% customer retention!). Earlier this year I was figuring how to go about raising my prices. Now I am doing all I can to keep them (no price raise...yet!).

So far this year, I have one new contract signed and another is being reviewed by a out of town owner that was given to me by referal. I expect him to sign any day now, but I don't want to boil my chickens before they fly the coup!

There dosen't seem to be too many chickens in the sea these days! Maybe the heat will drive out some of the competition!

[Eric ELM]

sgreanbean
I have noticed the same thing here. The bigger the company, the worse the work looks. I know of one that is under bidding just to get a lot of lawns here too. They use all no English speaking workers an the customers can not communicate with them. There are customers like mine that are willing to pay more for quality and the are able to communicate with us too. I got one customer about 12 years ago, he said he would go out and tell them he wanted it cut higher in the hot months. They would just shrug their shoulders and keep scalping it. :)

If you're in a small town, it might help to get all the LCO's in your area together and discuss raising prices, not lowering them.

[bobbygedd]

report it alll huh? and never paid a guy cash for a days help either huh? hmmmmm?????????nose growing?????

[KirbysLawn]

Originally posted by Island Lawn
Kirbys Lawn!?!
Ray, if you're a scrub, then what am I?


Not sure?? :) Just my point, since I have a full time job (as a paramedic) certain people label me as a scrub, for some it has nothing to do with professionalism, education, equipment, licenses, insurance, or whatever. While one person labels someone as a scrub others may disagree, we all have our opinions. Glad to hear you retained your customers!

[CSRA Landscaping]

... I doubt that many scrubs would be looking in on this site regularly, much less post a reply or a thread on it.

I was a little offended by the 'scrub talk' too at first but I realized that the folks that want to laugh at you because you actively pursue commercial accounts of 1/4 acre or less simply do so out of ignorance. And I don't see anything wrong with keeping an extension cord in my trailer, should the occasion arise that I need one.

Labelling someone a scrub because they are new to the game is wrong. We all have made mistakes at one point or another. Now what you learn from those mistakes, or fail to learn, will determine whether you are competing to be a scrub or to have a respectable business. I'm probably thought more of as a scrub to some folks because I'm new and this is my first year, July will mark 1 year. I KNOW Ray's got me beat right now.

Bottom line is, you mess up, you learn, you get a respectable business. You mess up, you fail to learn, I get your customers.

[thelawnguy]

...anyone heard from "the original" scrub? John B? I wonder how he's doing, John if youre still lurking send me an email or PM...

[cp]

SCRUBS..TO BE OR NOT TO BE...

I was sitting at a country store the other day doing some paper work and getting my thoughts inorder when a pick up and trailer with mowers rolled by and a second passed by just a moment later and a third pulled in with two guys and they went in and got a drink. As they were leaving we greeted each other and I asked "You guys staying busy?"
And they replied as busy as you can be when everybody owns a trailer with mowers in them..

I kinda laughed and shrugged as I still had 30 day tags on my new trailer with my still new looking Lazer on board.

At first it made me feel that I was somehow intruding on others well being, then I realized that all my customers were not taken from any other LCO nor did I underbid because if I find out that a customer is replacing an LCO I will always charge more than they were paying, just because..

I saw a young guy cutting a yard across the road this weekend and I knew he was the new 'mow for hire' but when he scalped these poor peoples yard, got off the mower and ran over to the bush under my neighbors bedroom window and took a whiz and then ran over the yards two more times to cut up the remains I would have to call him a scrub.

I felt bad for the scrub but after looking at these yards for three days now I feel worse for the land owners..

Well I've sad enough best of luck to all whether you own a 60" or a 21"..Do the best that you can...

[Turfcouncil]

I think it is funny when people get all riled up about this subject. In my mind everybody has different ways of doin things that do not compare to the next guy. Does it make us low lifes if all of our equipment is paid for and our overhead is minimum.
Apples to Apples
by the way 1/4 acre is a large lawn here.
I do some that are 300 sq ft
Just depends on where you are...I see most of you are in the mid-west or east coast. Maybe some westsiders will start showing up soon. I hope