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mrusk
04-04-2006, 06:44 PM
Here we go again. Today i spoke on the phone with my versa lok rep for about 10 minutes. I was talking to him about getting some pleminary drawings from an engineer so i can bid a 7 foot tall ball.

He told me to never rap the clear stone in fabric. Says it will clog and create a dam and cause the wall to fail. He is local and his office is 10 minutes from my house. Are conditions so different in this country that not using fabric might be the correct way in my area but not in another part of the country.

When i first started my business i did not use fabric since i was taught that way. Now i use it on every job no exceptions.

Matt

cedarcroft
04-04-2006, 07:40 PM
that sounds silly to me. If you have enough water coming through the backfill that it can dam up and push the wall over before draining through the rocks and drainpipe, there are bigger issues. I thought the idea of the fabric was so silt and sand didn't get into the clear stone and block that up over time creating damming and wall failure. it seems like the rep has some of his installation guidelines mixed up

cgland
04-04-2006, 08:17 PM
NCMA also does not require fabric in it's guidelines. The theory is that the fines of the infill soil will block the fabrics ability to freely drain, thus causing hydrstatic pressures to build. They also say, that if you use fabric, make sure it is the non-woven type. I only use fabric to cover the drainage stone before I cover with topsoil.

Chris

mrusk
04-04-2006, 08:30 PM
CGLAND- I think just using the fabric on top of the drainage stone might be the way to go.

I look foward to hearing more.

Dreams To Designs
04-05-2006, 08:04 AM
With a wall that tall, you will have an engineer design it, I hope, and they will make the determination of the need and type of fabric. There is a non-woven separation fabric that is used for septic systems that is extremely porous and have contractors that have found that to be the best for wrapping the clean stone.

Kirk

mrusk
04-05-2006, 08:30 AM
Of course it will get engineered. The block rep is having his engineers get me prelimanary drawings for free so i can atleast ball park this job within 10-15%.

GreenMonster
04-05-2006, 11:13 PM
NCMA also does not require fabric in it's guidelines. The theory is that the fines of the infill soil will block the fabrics ability to freely drain, thus causing hydrstatic pressures to build. They also say, that if you use fabric, make sure it is the non-woven type. I only use fabric to cover the drainage stone before I cover with topsoil.

Chris

Chris, you've mentioned in the past wrapping your stone cell of a geo-grid wall with fabric... is this something you've stopped?

Allan Block reps are very wishy-washy on the fabric too. I have some walls with fabric and some without. Guess I don't really know which is the best way to go. Sure is easier to build without the fabric :D

cgland
04-06-2006, 06:56 PM
Mark - I used to wrap them, but I have stopped. There are several occasions where I will wrap it. Those being A) Engineer told me to! B) Engineer told me to! LOL

Chris

mrusk
04-06-2006, 08:57 PM
I got the prelimanary drawings back from the versalok rep. Nothing to major on this wall. Wall is 7 feet tall exposed. 2 courses burried. 3 pulls of 6ft grid after course 2, 6, and 10. And then a 8 foot pull of grid after course 14. No fabric around clear stone or under base. However, these are just prelimanary drawings for estimating only. Not site specfic.

This wall really is not to bad. About 17-18 skids of versa lok. And 150 or so yards of fill to fill in. Easy access.

Hopefully i get it!

cgland
04-06-2006, 09:58 PM
mrusk - You should always wrap your base excavation with fabric. Keeps the stone from migrating into the subgrade.

Chris

landscapediva
04-07-2006, 11:16 AM
I agree with Chris on still wrapping your base ex with fabric ... it just helps cure future drainage problems. The grid layout is right on. We used the SRW Series 3 geogrid on a project. It's bi-directional, so it's really easy to install (it comes in 6 ft width). Would highly recommend it!