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wmtom
04-07-2006, 09:49 PM
I have a job coming up on the beach. I will be moving sand around at a house. I plan on using my bucket but was thinking about tring a 6 way dozer blade I have never used one. I run a John Deere CT322. Any advice on which to use would be great.

Mike Thomas

gammon landscaping
04-08-2006, 12:12 AM
i tried one once and couldn't do any good with it but i was using a tired machine. it was a rock parking lot. after about an hour it looked like a motercross track. i had to put the bucket back on and fix it

Scag48
04-08-2006, 01:43 AM
Unless you need the down pressure to really cut and push alot of material, buckets are best.

janb
04-08-2006, 01:50 AM
I have both but think I can move more dirt, faster with bucket.

Depends on terrain, distance and material / condition (damp/dry)

sand might get away from you with a blade, the skids are not as fast as a dozer for moving huge qty of material, and blades adjust (respond) pretty slow in respect to ground speed, and short length of skid (easy to make 'whoop-dee-doos') you almost have to set blade, then move machine (that is not too fast...) the 6 ways are good when you need to cut a valley, or are in a confined space and need to establish a side grade.

for bulk material moving, the bucket might be best (pushing as if a 'box scraper'), if you have enough traction. (I don't get to do much 'sand')

Gravel Rat
04-08-2006, 02:24 AM
A mini excavator with a clean up bucket will move the material around by raking the material towards the machine. You can't push the sand or you will sink from the wheel spin and before you know it the machine will be bottomed out.

Scag48
04-08-2006, 02:51 AM
Machine he posted is a Deere CT332. Tracked machine should have no problems with the sand.

Gravel Rat
04-08-2006, 03:09 AM
You still don't want to push a tracked machine will sink just as fast. Better off scooping and traveling with the material. You probably want another machine on the site to pull the other machine out of the hole the tracks sunk into :laugh:

wmtom
04-08-2006, 09:08 AM
I have worked on the beach a few times and have never came close to getting it stuck. I am in Pensacola, Fl. the beaches are white sand. The job I have coming up is pushing or moving sand closer to the house. The sand washed away during Hurricane Ivan and Dennis.

Mike Thomas

Gravel Rat
04-08-2006, 12:49 PM
Maybe look into getting a 4 in 1 for your skid steer so you will be able to grade or scoop because you will want a bucket for back blading to level out the sand.

A mini excavator would be handy to have because you can rake alot of material back with a clean up bucket.

Scag48
04-08-2006, 01:28 PM
I disagree, a track loader will still be faster. The cleanup buckets on minis are so small and are only good for grading. Plus, it's sand, so it's incredibly heavy, so you wouldn't be able to fill the bucket all the way. Add that to the fact that you have a tiny bucket and you'd just be wasting your time.

Gravel Rat
04-08-2006, 01:44 PM
I guess no one has ever showed you how to rake material with a clean up bucket. You start in one area reach out and start pulling material towards you then move back and keep pulling material towards you. You never fill the bucket.

I moved 24 yards of heavy rock laden fill in 15 mins raking it back using a EX 150 with a clean up bucket on it.

As for mini I'am talking about something in the 10,000lb range. Heck if you can get a EX-60 sized machine onto the beach even better it has a blade to push.

If you use a dozer you need something with swamp pads on it so you have good traction and floatation.

tylermckee
04-08-2006, 02:49 PM
I dont see why a tracked machine would have problems running on beach sand, its not like its quick sand you arent gonna sink. the only way i could see someone getting stuck is trying to push too much and spinning the tracks, even then you can still push yourself out with the bucket. if it were me i would use a CTL or a mini depending on how far the sand has to be moved. Under ~40 feet or so i would probably just use a mini and swing the sand towards the house a few times, you keep yourself positioned right and you can scoop a full bucket of material and swing it behind you are far as you can reach just fine. anything farther and i would want to use a skid.

who cares if you moved 24 yards of fill on a 150 hitachi that doesnt have anything to do with this thread. I might as well say I moved 1,500 yards of dirt 160 feet on a 120 hitachi scooping and throwing it behind me all day for a week or two, so does that help you decide what machine to use? NO, because its irrelevant.

wmtom
04-08-2006, 03:00 PM
so are we saying use the bucket not the dozer blade

Mike Thomas

Gravel Rat
04-08-2006, 03:16 PM
I'am just saying you can rake back material faster than pushing it. A CTL will bog out pushing sand you know once the tracks start slipping you can't push anymore.

A bigger excavator with a dig bucket and thumb with a deep I beam clamped in the bucket will grade the sand back.

I guess if your getting paid by the hour and money is no issue you could spend hours pushing sand with a CTL.

wmtom its why I suggested a 4 in 1 bucket you have almost the best of both worlds a dozer blade and of course bucket.

You probably are going to have to scoop material run it up the beach dump it and back blade it.

Another issue you will have to deal with is the enviromental people with rules and regulations.

Scag48
04-08-2006, 03:16 PM
who cares if you moved 24 yards of fill on a 150 hitachi that doesnt have anything to do with this thread. I might as well say I moved 1,500 yards of dirt 160 feet on a 120 hitachi scooping and throwing it behind me all day for a week or two, so does that help you decide what machine to use? NO, because its irrelevant.

I couldn't agree more brother! LMAO :laugh:

Gravel Rat
04-08-2006, 03:23 PM
Lets see I have been around excavating for almost 15 years most of you guys are landscapers so what does that say :rolleyes:

The equipment you guys run is garden patch diggers.

When you need to move a larger amount of material you don't fool around with a smaller machine.

tylermckee
04-08-2006, 03:58 PM
I actually work for an excavation company and we do everything from developing, house sites, commercial buildings, etc. Guess what we even dig in hard sold rock too! our next development is on solid rock, there is gonna be 30' cuts and 30' fills. You arent the only guy here that knows how to run equipment, and just because you think one way of doing something is better or faster it doesnt mean it is.

Scag48
04-08-2006, 04:14 PM
Yeah, you're right, we are landscapers, so talking about a Hitachi 160 in this thread is 100% irrelevant. We use the equipment we have, big job or small, to get the job done. Who wants to be making an equipment payment plus rental fees every month? We don't. If we get to a job where it would be nice to have a 307, we just tough it out with the 303. In the end, the customer still pays for the time so who really cares?

Squizzy246B
04-08-2006, 06:13 PM
Tom, we run on at least 75% sand...and have the wheel spin to prove it:) ..but a bucket on a tracked machine is the way to go if you haven't got a spare wheel loader laying around somewhere:rolleyes: .

Lower your tyre pressures if you are using a wheeled machine (about 18psi) and learn how to run in the sand. It does take some getting used to and its all about balance and traction. Wheeled, tracked, loaders...they will all spin in the sand unless you get the machine balanced and use smooth power.

The problem with a blade on mid-to large sized machines is you can't load up the front wheels by taking in some sand.

Jeez I love the ignore button)

murray83
04-08-2006, 06:16 PM
sooooooooo back this this guys question lol

i see no problem with what u already have don't waste money on a blade,your bucket can back drag with the best of any blade going most decent operators can grade a lot with only a basic general purpose bucket.beach sand is actually a decent material to work on after a few passe, it'll compact itself.. you do own a small track loader this is what they were made for to provide weight over a bigger area......

grade the area out and bucket any excess material into a pile that can be disposed of once yer done. bonus too since its beach sand save it to use on another job and save a buck

ma5tr
04-08-2006, 06:52 PM
Hello All,

I would just like to say as a a neighboring Canadian, PLEASE do not think all canadians are such ignorant bafoons as some other canadians on this board(gravel rat).

As for the original question...I think I would go bucket....use what you got! Or you can g rent a 385 cat with a thumb and clamp a 50 foot piece of I beam in its bucket/ thumb and have it graded in one swipe...and maybe the heavy equipment guru imself, gravel rat, can come run it for you. I think we should all bow down to gravel rat and thank the man upstairs for blessing us all with his presence!!
:usflag: :canadaflag:

RockSet N' Grade
04-08-2006, 09:27 PM
I don't know how much material you have to move and that would be a deciding factor. If there is alot of material to move a large rubber tired loader would be an option to move volumn. One draw back on a dozer ( along with the previously mentioned) is that you will leave wind rows.
Little skids are nice versitle machines, but maybe another machine to move the volumne and then a small machine for clean up and dressing the final product.

Construct'O
04-08-2006, 10:13 PM
First off i know i'm a newbie on here,but lots of years experience,a few more then even GR ,but i have to addment I'm not a landscaper.

I agree with most of the others on here tho. Use what you have your ctl 322 and your bucket.Use them, unless, you thought you might need blade on other jobs on down the the road later.

Push your sand that is close until you get to far from your work,then use your machine by loading it and hauling it where you want.That is why they call them skidloaders.Right!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last i do like the discussions and the cussing on here.You guys sure know how to move dist ,rock,trash or anything else that needs done for just LANDSCAPERS .Keep it up.I LOVE It!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gravel Rat
04-09-2006, 02:44 AM
Back onto the enviromental concerns have you have approval to do this ?

On the West Coast of B.C. we can not disturb any part of the beach you can add rock boulders to keep the erosion to a minimum but you can't move material that is on the beach around. The one reason is our rocky beaches have oysters and the sandy beaches have clams.

To do anything like that you need approval from the gov't if you don't your wallet and bank account get significantly smaller from the fines you have to pay. The fisheries dept guys here are packing heat and love to use it so you don't want to pizz them off.

You will probably need absorbate pads and a oil spill kit on site to contain and clean up any kind of spills.

Scag48
04-09-2006, 03:11 AM
The fisheries dept guys here are packing heat and love to use it so you don't want to pizz them off.


Right, they're really going to shoot at you. Come on dude.

Gravel Rat
04-09-2006, 03:25 AM
They are itching to they pack the same size gun as a police officer it hangs off their belt like a police officer. A Fisheries officer can make your day frigging miserable they do have the power to send you off to jail. The enviroment is a big deal you can't fool around everything you do on the water or on beaches has to be legit.

Its why I'am asking does this guy have approval to do a job like this if its for the state gov't its probably approved but if its for a homeowner probably not.

murray83
04-09-2006, 08:51 AM
fisheries are more of a pain when your trying to alter the course of a stream or river.

from this guys profile hes in flordia and its on a beach,if anyone is gonna scream he just has to install a silt fence which honestly to me,is highly unlikely or light grading.no environmental impact studys r that crap its dumb.

i've delt with fisheries officers and department of environment officers many many times and most are uneducated halfwits who just wanna cause trouble,i dunno about BC but here in new brunswick DOF officers don't pull out guns they just bore you with paperwork :rolleyes:

wmtom
04-09-2006, 12:38 PM
The job is mainly moving sand in front of the house and a little in back all work will be done on private property. I will be putting up a silt fence. Down here you are not allowed to destroy the sea oats.

Mike Thomas

Gravel Rat
04-09-2006, 02:52 PM
The fisheries guys here strut around like they are RCMP we try not to deal with them if we don't have to.

I think your main concern would be oil spills you never know blow a line and its sprewing out hydraulic oil. Or the worst case scenario you accidently flop on your side and spill diesel fuel etc.

murray83
04-09-2006, 04:01 PM
lol poor guy just wanted to know if he should use a blade or not and yer going on about oil spills and hitachi 160's sorry,i'm kinda laughing its rude of me.this thread has gone wayyyyyy off track,so to sum up yer track loader is gonna be fine and tell us how yer job went