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thepawnshop
04-08-2006, 10:16 PM
OK, as most of you guys know, I am considering a rubber tire skid to add to my mini and CTL and one of the reasons for that addition is the concern I have that running in 57's (gravel) can tear up the undercarriage/tracks of my JD 322 CTL. Should that be a realistic concern?

westernpa
04-10-2006, 08:49 AM
Reading my TL130 operator's guide it says running in pure sand or gravel with a CTL is not recommended because it will work over the undercarriage. Rocks and sand increases the wear and tear getting in between the rollers, idlers, drive and tracks. It will put a hurtin' on the undercarriage for sure. If you will be operating in gravel piles and sand most of the time then IMO you would be better off with a machine with tires.

iowacatman
04-10-2006, 09:35 AM
There are some operating tips and maintenance items you should be aware of before running in gravel. Check with your rep.

I agree with weternpa, better off just avoiding gravel and rock with your CTL.

YellowDogSVC
04-08-2007, 10:45 PM
can ctl's hold up in land clearing applications where I may encounter surface rocks and some sharper stumps?

dozerman21
04-08-2007, 11:31 PM
Like the other guys said, it will shorten the life of the tracks, but IMO, it's not enough to buy a wheeled skid just for that. Unless you're constantly working in stone, I couldn't justify it. I don't think #57's would be that bad. When you're working around a larger stone like #4's and 2's, that's where you can do the most damage because the rock won't be able to go through the sprocket, and especially between the rollers and track, as easy. I have to use my CT332 in all conditions, and I put in a lot of stone drives, and dig out existing stone drives. The main thing you need to avoid is spinning on large stone. Try to do quarter turns, and if you're working in mud be careful, because that's how you can detrack a machine. Mud covered rocks can get between the roller and track, and if you're in a turn, it can lift the track and make it crooked and start to come off. I just don't think #57's would do much damage. It would definetly be a whole lot cheaper to figure in a little shorter track life span, than to buy another machine, unless you need a wheeled skid for pavement and other uses.


can ctl's hold up in land clearing applications where I may encounter surface rocks and some sharper stumps?

Yellow- There are many land clearers around here that have switched to CTL's. I would still prefer OTT steel tracks because things like sharp stumps will cut the he!! out of the rubber tracks. That has to be one of the worst things you could run over. If you really want to go the CTL route in those conditions, just expect on a much shorter track life...maybe half. If you can tack that on to your price, maybe a CTL would work for you. The surface rocks aren't a problem, it's the sharp things that will cut a track, and once you have a cut, it will continue to get bigger, like a boxer's eye!:hammerhead: The OEM won't cover anything like that. Most don't even cover service time if a machine detracks.

Gravel Rat
04-09-2007, 01:16 AM
Regular bulldozers with steel tracks have the same problems when running in gravel. Say a D-8 pushing up piles of processed gravel all day wear out tracks faster from wear than a D-8 pushing dirt. The processed gravel is finer and has sharper edges and its like sand paper and wears out the undercarriage faster.

dozerman21
04-09-2007, 06:51 AM
Regular bulldozers with steel tracks have the same problems when running in gravel. Say a D-8 pushing up piles of processed gravel all day wear out tracks faster from wear than a D-8 pushing dirt. The processed gravel is finer and has sharper edges and its like sand paper and wears out the undercarriage faster.

You're right. Sand is the worst thing for a dozer. It will really shorten the U/C life span if you run in it on a regular basis. But on a dozer, you have steel on steel, and the sand gets between the sprocket, bushings, idlers, and rollers, and acts like sandpaper. It will wear the grouser pads faster too. On a CTL, it's not steel on steel, it's steel rollers, idlers, and sprockets working against rubber tracks and rails.

Sand and gravel probably isn't the best material for a CTL to run in, since the tracks are steel imbedded and the sprocket is steel, but it doesn't have the same effect as a dozer in those conditions.

AWJ Services
04-09-2007, 09:07 AM
On a CTL, it's not steel on steel, it's steel rollers, idlers, and sprockets working against rubber tracks and rails.

Actually Takeuchi has steel on steel with there track system.
The rubber does not touch the undercarriage.

tallrick
04-09-2007, 06:19 PM
Not sure about other models, but with the ASV there's no steel on steel, and the tracks generally stay on the gravel, you don't see much of it getting inside. I have seen a lot of them after working in sand, and it really doesn't have the same effect as a segmented steel track system like a dozer. With metal on metal, sand and gravel can be ground into an abrasive, add water and you have a slurry eating up your steel parts. Rubber tracks often get more wear working on pavement, where the outside of the track gets ground away, and the inside is repeatedly strained from having to slip on pavement in turns. From what I have seen, machines used for road or concrete work had more undercarriage problems that those used to spread gravel or that worked on sandy sites. Since every CTL is different, and every part of the country has different types of rocks this may not apply to you.

dozerman21
04-09-2007, 07:58 PM
Actually Takeuchi has steel on steel with there track system.
The rubber does not touch the undercarriage.

Right, but he has a Deere, which doesn't have steel rails. The majority of CTL's aren't steel on steel.:)

AWJ Services
04-09-2007, 08:36 PM
The majority of CTL's aren't steel on steel.


:)

I actually thought JD machines had the steel in there tracks(were the rollers touch) like the Takeuchi.

My mistake.

Tigerotor77W
04-09-2007, 08:43 PM
True, AWJ, but the steel is embedded in the rubber -- so the steel in the track isn't impacting the steel rollers.

AWJ Services
04-10-2007, 12:02 AM
True, AWJ, but the steel is embedded in the rubber -- so the steel in the track isn't impacting the steel rollers.

Helps both problems.
Elimimates the wear the rocks cause when going through the rollers and also allows a non rigid surface for the rollers.

YellowDogSVC
04-10-2007, 12:52 AM
Like
eye!:hammerhead: The OEM won't cover anything like that. Most don't even cover service time if a machine detracks.


I am in S. central Texas. Lots of limestone rocks, some honeycombed, and many, many old, sharp cedar stumps. i think these conditions would eventually be a problem. I run hulk solid filled tires and have chunks out and I always do 1/4 turns and routinely get 1500hrs out of my tires BUT they have chunks missing as I said. I once had a piece of rebar go through a hulk and out the sidewall. I imagine that would do a lot of damage to rubber tracks??

dozerman21
04-10-2007, 07:30 AM
I am in S. central Texas. Lots of limestone rocks, some honeycombed, and many, many old, sharp cedar stumps. i think these conditions would eventually be a problem. I run hulk solid filled tires and have chunks out and I always do 1/4 turns and routinely get 1500hrs out of my tires BUT they have chunks missing as I said. I once had a piece of rebar go through a hulk and out the sidewall. I imagine that would do a lot of damage to rubber tracks??

Yep. If it's taking chunks out of you Hulks, it will do the same or worse to the rubber tracks. I see guys out here that use CTL's for demo work!:confused: To me that's crazy. It's usually on a concrete pad, and they're running around broken concrete, rebar, steel... I just don't get that. A wheeled machine is ideal for demo, if you need a skid. Otherwise, crawler loaders.

tallrick
04-10-2007, 12:26 PM
Yep. If it's taking chunks out of you Hulks, it will do the same or worse to the rubber tracks. I see guys out here that use CTL's for demo work!:confused: To me that's crazy. It's usually on a concrete pad, and they're running around broken concrete, rebar, steel... I just don't get that. A wheeled machine is ideal for demo, if you need a skid. Otherwise, crawler loaders.


Yes I have seen that also and it baffles me! Have experienced firsthand what a twisted piece of 1/2 inch rebar did to the right side undercarriage of a Bobcat T250, it wasn't easy to get out either. Also the fact that demolition companies hire the most destructive employees ( low paid, don't care) doesn't help. My choice for demo is solid tires, and if necessary steel over tire tracks. Yet I still think that for occasional landscape work with sand or gravel, tracks are just fine and do seem to speed up the job as well.