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View Full Version : great tap out pic


greenworldh20
04-09-2006, 09:57 AM
hey,

who needs experience, education and a background in irrigation...just hire the 'lowest qualified contractor'.

you gotta love this industry.

brian

greenworldh20
04-09-2006, 10:01 AM
here is another great 'tap out'. really, how do these contractors get paid?

TURF DOCTOR
04-09-2006, 10:02 AM
LOL I think you were upside down on that one.

greenworldh20
04-09-2006, 10:03 AM
and another...

Grn Mtn
04-09-2006, 10:04 AM
For those of us not in the business, what is the error?

greenworldh20
04-09-2006, 10:05 AM
yet another great 'tap out'...

greenworldh20
04-09-2006, 10:12 AM
more great back flow pics...how many times did this one get repaired? hint: count the pvc couplings.

greenworldh20
04-09-2006, 10:27 AM
here is a pic of a good tap out.

brian

Wet_Boots
04-09-2006, 10:28 AM
I'll still vote the first picture as the worst, since it is 99.99 percent certain that it means there is no backflow protection for the system. Except for all the couplings, the (10:12) setup is not all that uncommon.

DanaMac
04-09-2006, 10:54 AM
Hey Brian - in post #8, if that is your tap out, it would not meet our code requirements. It can not have a hose bib before the PVB, or any BF. If for some reason it does, the threads where the hose can connect to it must be cut off

Wet_Boots
04-09-2006, 10:58 AM
Can you cite the specific line(s) of codes regarding that? Local custom (or even ordinance) doesn't count. I know there can be a requirement for hose-bib backflow protection, but that doesn't seem to be applied to existing homes of a certain age.

Flow Control
04-09-2006, 11:45 AM
We just have to put a Hose Connection Vacuum Breaker on the drain. Last year we were asked to retro fit older homes in one city because they got a new plumbing inspector that is back tracking ALL homes with irrigation to make sure that permits and Hose Connection Vacuum Breaker were installed and not then you have to meet current code. My point to him is why impose on home owners (ones that built or even ones that moved in later, second or third owner) stuff that happened 5-6 years ago? And what about the companies that went under. Why should I have to give away free service calls to put the Hose Connection Vacuum Breaker on? WTF???

Wet_Boots
04-09-2006, 12:00 PM
Since homeowners with improper backflow can be required to bring things up to code, a required install of (removeable for winterizing, hopefully) hosebib-vacuum-breakers isn't so outrageous. What I am most curious about, though, is the 'cut the threads off' bit.

Flow Control
04-09-2006, 12:32 PM
Same principle is you have a sweat by sweat ballvalve where the drain is it would be ok since you can't hook anything up to it. You can also just put a threaded plug in place of the Hose Connection Vacuum Breaker too. This is just what I have been told from inspectors.

DanaMac
04-09-2006, 12:39 PM
Can you cite the specific line(s) of codes regarding that?

Not sure if I can find that again. My plumbing code books are gone, as I loaned them to another contractor, and he killed himself a few months later. But I know it to be fact here, as I have seen them fail the inspection due to it.

Wet_Boots
04-09-2006, 12:51 PM
I have heard of inspections failed because a contractor failed to slip a fifty to the inspector. Not that that had anything to do with codes. I have also heard of inspectors demanding that an atmospheric vacuum breaker be installed below grade in a valve pit. Not that that had anything to do with lawn sprinkler system codes, either.

Although many states employ a regional code (not all of them do), those codes differ slightly from one another. I can show an install that would comply to the National Standard Plumbing Code, that would never fly in California, despite the backflow being installed to manufacturer specs. California has a few wrinkles of their own, and being the largest market, all the devices are made with California codes in mind.

greenworldh20
04-09-2006, 01:11 PM
:the water spigot before the backflow is 'technically' not the correct way to do it but........i believe it is the best place to place it for the winterization of the system. if it became a 'code' issue, i would install a pvc plug.

'nuff said.

but how do you all like the pics of beautiful tap outs we have here in the hudson valley?

brian :dizzy:

Dirty Water
04-09-2006, 01:13 PM
Heh...PVB's are so ugly.

Our tap out practice is to use brass from the POC to the backflow preventer (buried Double check in our case according to our county) and then run PVC from there one. Lots of guys in this area suspend their DC's from PVC on both sides, I don't like that.

GreenWorld: Does it bother a PVB to blow air through it?

Wet_Boots
04-09-2006, 01:20 PM
Add a few years of settled foundation soil to that 'good tap out' and it might also join the hall of shame. Something common to all deep foundation walls, especially with newer construction.

PVBs are indifferent to winterizing, but the ball valve handles have to be turned to a 45 degree angle, to release any trapped water.

Dirty Water
04-09-2006, 01:27 PM
PVBs are indifferent to winterizing, but the ball valve handles have to be turned to a 45 degree angle, to release any trapped water.

I was curious, we blow through test cocks all the time up here and I haven't heard of breaking any backflows doing that until I got on here.

Wet_Boots
04-09-2006, 01:46 PM
I was curious, we blow through test cocks all the time up here and I haven't heard of breaking any backflows doing that until I got on here.I've even blown through RPZs from an upstream hose bib, but I was using a truck-mount compressor that didn't give hot air that could possibly melt any plastic, or high enough flow or pressure to possibly set up the kind of plastic-rattling vibrations that might cause fractured parts. Since the manufacturers can't see what equipment you might be using, they have to be cautious.

Dirt Boy
04-09-2006, 07:42 PM
Just curious, but aren't you supposed to use metal on all above grade plumbing? Doesn't PVC get brittle after months/years in sunlight? I know I see a lot of PVC from PVB to valve's, but seems like you are asking for trouble?

Wet_Boots
04-09-2006, 08:42 PM
Just curious, but aren't you supposed to use metal on all above grade plumbing?When sunny California discontinues the use of PVC antisyphon control valves, mounted above ground in the great outdoors, I might concede the point.

Yes, the PVC will slowly become brittle with age and exposure, but it will also become brittle without bright sunlight exposure, albeit more slowly.

All by itself, the above-ground sch 40 doesn't seem to be a problem. It takes something else to cause it to break. In post #8, with the photo of a 'good tapout' the sch 40 PVC isn't the most fragile part of the above-ground work. It's not even the second most fragile part.

Flow Control
04-09-2006, 10:03 PM
Just curious, but aren't you supposed to use metal on all above grade plumbing? Doesn't PVC get brittle after months/years in sunlight? I know I see a lot of PVC from PVB to valve's, but seems like you are asking for trouble?

We switched to running copper down from the PVB to the ground. Thought it was better until we were having the connection below grade break when the foundations started to settle. It is common to see the pvc going into the ground bow and pull the pvb down since it takes a while for the foundations to settle. If you use schedule 40 you should not worry about it too much.