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jcom
04-14-2006, 10:43 AM
Our local plumbing houses do not carry parts for the Watts PVB. Only a repair kit. We are seeing a lot of frozen shut offs on these units. We need the 1" shut off that has the test **** on it and our suppliers told us they cannot get them.

Any help as to where we might be able to find them would be appreciated.

John:usflag:

Wet_Boots
04-14-2006, 12:28 PM
If they're ones you installed, it comes down to someone not turning the handles to a 45 degree position for winterizing. You need a 'tapped' ball valve, like a Febco 622FT, which should accept a 1/8 inch testcock

jcom
04-14-2006, 10:03 PM
Thanks "Boots",

These are not my installs but you bring up a question in my mind. Why would you need to put the handle at the "half open" position for winterizing? I winterize a lot of systems and blow out through the PVB and I have them either full open or full closed depending on the directi:confused: :confused: on I am pushing the water. Either to the valves/heads or back to the source/drain.

I appreciate all the info. Where do I find the Febco 622FT? My suppliers have no idea what it is?

Later and have a great Easter!

John

PurpHaze
04-14-2006, 10:19 PM
Try these:

http://www.usabackflowproducts.com/index.asp?PageAction=MFGSEARCH&ManfID=1077&Page=1

http://www.sandersindustrial.com/item.cfm?id=1802

http://www.usabackflowproducts.com/index.asp?PageAction=ADVSEARCH

http://www.gjpipe.com/backflow_prevention.htm

http://jerman.com/backflowpreventers/index2.html

Wet_Boots
04-15-2006, 08:25 AM
Ball valves have a small space between the ball and the body of the valve. Water freezing in this space can crack the valve body. Any backflow preventer's instructions will include directions for turning the valve handles so as to allow water to be cleared from this space.

Febco is probably not the manufacturer of the 622FT, so it might be available from other sources. I kind of wish Watts' design included testcocks on the PVB itself. It seems kind of cheesy to have them on the ball valves.

SprinklerGuy
04-15-2006, 09:26 AM
I have explained the 45 degree angle postion of those friggin valves so many times this week I'm dreaming about it...literally.

The other thing folks forget to do is open the testc.ocks....

Wet_Boots
04-15-2006, 10:14 AM
Some instructions repeat the 45 degree advice for the testcocks, but I've not seen that to be a problem.

Wet_Boots
04-15-2006, 03:17 PM
Another (imported) tapped ball valve is a Wilkins 850T ~ I see one online source that will sell you one for 18 bucks. Looks a lot cheaper to just turn the handles when winterizing.

bicmudpuppy
04-16-2006, 01:52 AM
Despite all the flak about backflow codes getting worse, around here things are moving backward. 8-10 years ago, PVB's were common with RPZ's when necessary. Now, most allow DC's. If your in a winterization climate and PVB code, your going to see cracked ball valves for all the reasons mentioned. I always bought a new PVB when I needed a ported valve. The price for an "A" valve or Ported PVB valve was close to the cost of a new PVB. Save the other parts for somewhere else and you are way ahead. I've used Watts PVB shut-off valves as replacement "A" valves for RPZ's and DC's too. Febco and Wilkins aren't so nice. They like the test.cocks on the PVB body like boots mentions. The one advantage to the Watts PVB having ported test.cocks is it gives me a cheap way of buying "A" valves for RPZ's too. For those of you doing a lot of backflow repair work, I strongly urge you to compare YOUR cost of the repair parts to buying a complete device. Here, I get a .6 or better multiplier on whole backflow devices, but I often find myself at .75 or higher on parts. Sometimes, the parts multiplier is as high as .9 This makes the extra parts in an RPZ free and you can change cage and all on the check valves. Spare test.cocks and ball valves are always welcome on my truck if I didn't have to pay for them.

PurpHaze
04-16-2006, 11:16 AM
This is right in line with the "change the whole thing" theory instead of parting it to death mentioned in another thread. Difference is that you may need only one part off the product and then get to hold onto the rest of it as backup parts. :)

Wet_Boots
04-16-2006, 12:50 PM
I liked PVB valves better when they were gate valves. No worries about freezing. Then some state had to go and require resilient-seated isolation valves.

Bite me, California! :p

PurpHaze
04-16-2006, 01:52 PM
Prolly because of USC's BF program. :)

Wet_Boots
04-16-2006, 02:05 PM
Yep. They're the culprits! Same bunch of nimrods that got the wine country planting their grapes on AXR-1 rootstocks, and just how did that work out?

DanaMac
04-16-2006, 06:40 PM
I can somewhat agree with the "buy the whole unit". Pricing out all the pieces will be more than the unit. BUT - I buy 60 3/4" Febco bonnets in the spring, and will use them all. And 40 untapped 3/4" ball valves. About 12.50 a bonnet, and 5.50 a ball valve. Those are the main repair parts I will use on that unit. That is half the price of a PVB. Check valve, spring and retainer clip - rarely replaced. Occasionally a poppet. I'm not going to buy 60 PVBs and gut them. If the bonnet and both BVs are needing replacing, I'll replace the whole unit. And it takes a couple minutes and 2 wrenches to get the BVs off the body. I will use more than the 60 bonnets and 40 BVs. No way I'm gutting 60 units and having 60 bodies, check valves, springs, clips sitting around. and wasting money and time.

Tapped 1" BV I can get for around 12-13 bucks. I stock about 2-4 of these in the 3/4", and 1-2 in the 1". Rarely replace the tapped ones.

BSME
04-16-2006, 07:53 PM
well put dana...

I do agree with buying some whole backflows so you can get the ball valves off and sometimes you need to replace the check valve as well...

but if you get all your poppet and bonnets that way you'll have way too many ball valves and other parts

bicmudpuppy
04-16-2006, 10:35 PM
well put dana...

I do agree with buying some whole backflows so you can get the ball valves off and sometimes you need to replace the check valve as well...

but if you get all your poppet and bonnets that way you'll have way too many ball valves and other parts
Correct, but price out an PRZ repair kit w/ relief and then price the unit new......... My main complaint here is that if the relief is bad, rubber alone rarely fixes the problem, and the complete relief kit is priced way out of line. Add a rubber kit to the relief kit price and whole goods is cheaper and you don't have to spend the labor time on the rubber, just swap the guts. Save the BVs and test.cocks, then chuck the body in the recycle barrel until it is full.

DanaMac
04-16-2006, 10:53 PM
Well puppy, I save all the check valves, springs, relief valve (kit or whatever you want to call it), from the ones we replace due to the body cracking from freezing. Guess where they get used?

bicmudpuppy
04-16-2006, 11:16 PM
Well puppy, I save all the check valves, springs, relief valve (kit or whatever you want to call it), from the ones we replace due to the body cracking from freezing. Guess where they get used?
:) :) As long as it works and you don't have to make a warranty call back, I'm for it. I had to make an emergency trip from KS to KY in the early fall of 2000. When I got back, my boss had done me a great service. He let the crew of "guest" workers clean my step van for me so it would be all in order when I got back. The look on his face when I told him the "trash" they had pitched off the arse end of the truck would have retailed over 3K by the following May......... :hammerhead: Some parts are only available by salvage. I have to make time to sort the "trash" when it doesn't rain, but it is worth it in the end:weightlifter: Kind of goes back to that experience thing. I think more and more stuff is being tossed (both useable salvage and warranty materials) because the techs doing the work just don't understand what it is worth, and they don't care about helping the company make more money.