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View Full Version : Picking up materials? I just don't understand.


mrusk
04-23-2006, 09:51 AM
I have all my agerate and block/pavers delivered to my job site. It seems like most of my competitors pick up the material. Sometimes making several trips with there 550s to get what they need, and making several trips with there trailers to get the block/pavers. Some companies even have tandem and triaxles trucks to pick up material.

The more i think about it, unless your running several crews and have a dedicated truck driver, i don't think it pencils out to do your own deliveries.

When i need agergate, i call the local quarry and have a tandem or a triaxle with my material, within an hour. It cost me 60-70 for delivery. I don't think that could be beat. Even if you have a 26kgvw dump truck, you would still have to make 3 trips to get as much material as a loaded tri axle. By the time you add in the truck overhead, lost production time by employee, and fuel, are you saving any money?

Do you guys pick up or have your materials delivered?

As i plan future purchuses for my company, i am really wondering if buying a single axle dump truck is the best way to spend my money.

Pavers Plus
04-23-2006, 10:11 AM
I always tell contractors they should have the bulk of there material delivered by others because it saves so much time and money in more ways than one.... If your guys are not on the job, you are losing money. If they are driving for 20 minutes to the supplier then 20 minutes at the yard, then 20 minutes back, you just lost 1 man hour. Also, assume that your foreman is getting the materials leaving the laborers. I assume once the foreman leaves, efficiency of your crew drops by over half. Now, figure 3-4 trips in your truck for materials........that's most of the day with little efficiency.

Keep your guys on the jobsite and have everything delivered if possible. sometimes it is necessary to leave the jobsite to get the materials to finish... I do have a couple companies that purchase from me that would rather spend $100 delivery on 1/2 pallet of material then to have their guys leave the jobsite...

As far as the big trucks......you need lots of crews. The trends are for larger companies with more than 5 crews to use Multi-platforms trucks like Switch-n-Go or Stellar so that you can dedicate one truck to all your crews deliveries. YOu can have customized crew boxes dropped on site instead of trailers containing all your tools. You can deliver your machinery and move machinery with your one driver. You can pickup all materials need, both bulk or palletized with dump bodies or flatbed bodies that switch. When there is no need to run the truck, the driver can be trained to fill in certain tasks on crews or staging materials for your next jobs so that all material is on site when the crew begins the job.

a 26K GVW truck would be sufficent for most companies, though some are expanding into much larger trucks. Just remember what your CDL laws are in your state. In Maryland, you need a CDL with anything over 26K.

As far as trucks go, I'd skip the Ford F-450/F-550's. DOT is getting more strict with weights of these trucks and what is being carried/and towed. Go for the F-650 if you want a Ford. Or go for a Frieghtliner, Hino, International, Mitsubishi Fuso rated at 26K. I personally prefer the Cab over trucks because of maneuverablilty and fuel economy. I'd prefer not to have my crew driving in a 400HP truck speeding down the road overloaded. I'd rather they figure out that if they overload the truck, they will go much slower. If they load properly, the trucks perform properly.....

Just my 2 cents.....

By the way, one of my friends works for a company in California with about 100 crews and they run mostly F-150s for the crews with a few F-250/350's. They get everything delivered

Squizzy246B
04-23-2006, 10:28 AM
We backload our concrete sand to the job because the first thing we are normally doing is hauling out crap...it suits us because we can get 9 tonnes for $30.00 on our Mitsy whereas a 6 wheeler costs us $190 for 13 tonnes. Even then we still sometimes order a 6 wheeler if we are busy. We don't let any of our labourer's drive our truck because its just pivotal to our business.

We have all our blocks delivered....job we start shortly has 250 tonnes of blocks....lot of trips in single axle:dizzy:

Its not worth me or my partner being away from the job, get it delivered unless its a small job and it suits.

DVS Hardscaper
04-23-2006, 11:37 AM
Its my opinion that many scapers lack in sound business logistics mentality.

It seems many of these cowboys are on power trips and too consumed with trying to do it all, rather than sit back and do the math.

If its a small quanity and the stop is along the way of where we're workin, we'll pick it up, and I plan for that when costing out the job.

Anything else is delivered. If we just need one tree - in most cases - it's delivered...

DVS Hardscaper
04-23-2006, 11:45 AM
BTW MRUSK -

you wrote

"As i plan future purchuses for my company, i am really wondering if buying a single axle dump truck is the best way to spend my money."

We have a 26k gvw truck. And really the only point where we use it to its full potential is when we're finished a job. And by that I mean - when a job is done we have all the tools and machines to haul away. the skiddy bopper, left over hardscape materials, left over soil, etc. With all this loaded on truck and trailer, the combo unit is possibly weighing a GVW of 36,000#.

Now, we do work intelligently and try to haul items off the property as the work progresses and as we no longer need it on that job at hand. But there are times where it does not always work out that way.

So, in all reality - we do not need our medium duty truck, with good organization we could operate fine and dandy without it.

cedarcroft
04-23-2006, 01:15 PM
I have a International 4700 w/ a 14' dump body. I usually have things delivered except mulch, stone, topsoil, sand, RCA etc. ANy pavers or block, I just have it delivered. It is too much of a waste of time to wait and drive between the supplier and jobsite. I build the dlivery cost into estimate and I charge $150 per day for my truck and gas on any job we do.

mrusk
04-23-2006, 03:20 PM
DVS- After my first job i learned to haul out debris and tools during the job. That first job i did, i ended up having junk piled 7 feet up in my pickup bed!

For example- on a paver job once the base is done-all screeding tools (aluminum screeds and pipes) go right back to the shop. I think with a little planning, you could end up bring home almost nothing on the last day of the job.

On another note- Since i am selling my lawn accounts i am really considering selling my enclosed trailer. I was going to set it up for a hardscape trailer, but with alittle planning and a knack job box i might be able to do without a big hardscape trailer. Hell, i work solo right now so i am not bring many tools out with me to being with. The money from selling my lawn accounts, lazer z, and enclosed trailer, could give me a real nice down payment on a mini x, which would do more for me than having a enclosed trailer!

Matt

murray83
04-23-2006, 04:05 PM
a dump truck is a waste of money,there is no advantage to have one.

after your insurance,DOT inspections and keeping any repairs up to date,tires,fuel,daily maintainence its just a pain in your butt.

you can't make money off trucking and to landscapers buying anything larger than a 1 ton or say a 450 is a waste of your cash.

neversatisfiedj
04-23-2006, 04:07 PM
I am on a job now where I am using Hanover pavers. I can pick the material up for 1.50 a sqaure , or I can pay up to 2.50 just for the material then a surcharge for delivery. You decide. I pick up what I can . I have a 14000 gvw and it only set me back 5500.00 and it was worth every penny.

Edgewater
04-23-2006, 05:12 PM
I do a combination of both. If I have a large re-sod/grade job that I estimate I will need 10+ yards of material, I will schedule a deivery of maybe 90% of estimated material. I will then use my one ton dump to run the little we need for finishing.

Around here, they say "yeah we will be there between 7:00 and 8:00. well at 10:00 your crew is still standing there picking thier noses.

Block is an exact calculation and easy to schedule a delivery a day before you need it.

I agree 100% that the transport is not making you any money when using your own truck (unless you buy quarry direct) and that I let someone else move most material.

But there is something to be said for having four yards of top soil where you want it and when.

mrusk
04-23-2006, 05:18 PM
If you are not getting materials deliveried when they are supposed to be, get on your suppliers back or find someone else to buy from.

Mike33
04-23-2006, 07:29 PM
Dump trucks are thr neccessary evil!. I have been in business since 95 i started out with an old 1 ton dump. In 00 i sold it and bought a dump trailer for hauling small incriments to and from job. It starts every time and ins. is cheap. I own a 03 F-350 single rear wheel and it pulls my 185 bobcat with hoe attachment or landscape rake one or other. Im a small company but i turn a lot of work and able to funtion with techenically a personel truck. Im also able to pull my hydro seeder, it is a 550 tank with an aux. 500 gal. nurse tank. How i work my business is on walls i have quarry to deliver stone in tri-axle i will call a day ahead of time , and my block co. delivers my blocks. When i excavate to haul away i have a friend who sells and delivers my top soil ,trucks my fill dirt away for 50.00 / hour. He will haul for me almost on spur of minute notice. The big thing is coordination of material and planning ahead. With the way this works for me i would be foolish to spend 50k plus for a dump truck that would it sit a lot. If i need only 1 pallet of block or pinch of dirt hauled in or out , the dump trailer works well. Now i know if your really big with bigger eqpt. then you need trucks.Same way i will never own a dozer or full size hoe, i have to many contacts i can sub in and do the job right.

Mike
www.bobcatservice33.com

mbella
04-23-2006, 07:53 PM
Different methods work for different contractors. I agree with you Matt, have everything delivered when possible. We have a good relationship with a local trucking company that hauls 90% of our aggregate. Typically, I can place an order for a tri-axle of whatever and have it an hour later. Our paver/block vendor is pretty good about delivering the pavers/block the same day or next day if necessary.

However, I still have a 550. Why? I want to be able to move the amount of material my 550 can move if I need to.

DVS Hardscaper
04-23-2006, 08:43 PM
Yes, as mentioned, we do remove tools / machinery as the job progresses.

Dump Trailers have come a long way in recent years. Our F-650 has a GVW of 26k. The truck empty weighs around 16,000# (+ or - depending if both tanks are full) So this means it has a payload of ONLY 10,000#, which in reality isn't very much.

Yet, you can get a nice dump trailer with a payload of more weight than that!

I have been thinking of getting 1 ton crew cab pick ups and dump trailers. This way we are not taking a bulky dinasaur to job sites when such a large truck isnt needed. Which saves on fuel, insurance, etc.

But, there is one thing keeping me from gettin rid of the F-650! See, I heat my home with firewood. And I cut dead oak trees from other properties. I cut the timber in 14 - 16' lengths and can haul 3 cords of timber at a time! No dump trailer can enable me to utilize this very efficient system I have.

Other than that, we could do without the F-650.

murray83
04-23-2006, 08:44 PM
Mike33:

your basically running the same idea i've been throwing around for the past year.

what attachments do you have for your S185?

mbella
04-23-2006, 10:06 PM
Yes, as mentioned, we do remove tools / machinery as the job progresses.

Dump Trailers have come a long way in recent years. Our F-650 has a GVW of 26k. The truck empty weighs around 16,000# (+ or - depending if both tanks are full) So this means it has a payload of ONLY 10,000#, which in reality isn't very much.

Yet, you can get a nice dump trailer with a payload of more weight than that!

I have been thinking of getting 1 ton crew cab pick ups and dump trailers. This way we are not taking a bulky dinasaur to job sites when such a large truck isnt needed.[B]Which saves on fuel, insurance, etc.

But, there is one thing keeping me from gettin rid of the F-650! See, I heat my home with firewood. And I cut dead oak trees from other properties. I cut the timber in 14 - 16' lengths and can haul 3 cords of timber at a time! No dump trailer can enable me to utilize this very efficient system I have.

Other than that, we could do without the F-650.

That's why I like the 550. Payload of almost 9000lbs and the truck is no bigger than a one ton truck.

kootoomootoo
04-23-2006, 10:54 PM
I get everything delivered .........John Deere Landscapes ...you name it I get it.

I had a roll of 10 guage wire delivered friday afternoon...................its either a 90 min round trip or pay $50.

landscapingpoolguy
04-24-2006, 07:09 PM
I have 2 single axles. I use them to deliver materials and remove materials from my own jobs. Every job I do has cement asphalt or fill that needs to be removed. No customer wants to see these items piled up on there lawn or see a dumpster blocking the driveway, so I haul it away myself. The single axles also bring all the tools to the site including the Skid steer(which I also Own). I could not function without my trucks. One usually has garbage while the other is bringin in base materials. I help off set the cost of these trucks by also running a bulk delivery service for local retail supply yards homeowners, and contractors. Having my own trucks prevents me from waiting for deliveries. Some contractors call for deliveries, and want it at 8 am that morning. usually they dont get it till around 3 pm that afternoon. What do they do all day while there waiting? The only thing I have delivered is paver or block orders over 6 pallets. Even then getting a reasonable delivery date can be difficult.

DVS Hardscaper
04-24-2006, 07:23 PM
A lotta people bad mouth John Deere Landscapes.

We get good service from them. And the fact that they will delivery plant materials is worth its weight in gold.

Mike33
04-24-2006, 08:59 PM
Mike33:

your basically running the same idea i've been throwing around for the past year.

what attachments do you have for your S185?
I have the 185 with steel tracks, 709 hoe attm., 5a landscape rake, tilt tach, pallet forks. Any thing else i have a large rental sore close where i rent thr breaker and auger at times. The biggest thing i have to remember is when i take the hoe atttm. with me on my 16' trailer is to have the rake in the dump trailer in case i need it i will just hook up the dump trailer and go. This prevents me from hauling cat back home to load rake. I will carry pallet forks in bucket traveling. My system has been working real well for me. Like i said you might have to have trucks if so fine.
mike

clyde
04-27-2006, 12:09 AM
Well i usually just figure out when i will probably go by the place that has the materials and pick them up on the way back through and charge for it. Its killing two birds with one stone.