Somebody throw a bucket of water on me. I'm fuming

[Lee Homan]

Mowed one of my customers yard friday and his neighbor came up to me and wanted to know what he could do to improve the appearance of his yard. Well, it was obvious that he had been out trying to do some landscaping himself and didn't know a thing about what he was doing. It looked like sh%@. So, I advise him on the proper placement of some mulch beds and some other areas that needed mulched and he says ok, give me a price and tell me when you can do it. So I give him the quote and tell him I can get to it today(monday). Well, I almost went and picked up the supplies this morning but I had some yards to mow and I wanted to do them first so that I could use my trailer to haul the mulch. Well, I get done mowing and went back over to this guys house to double check everything before I go buy the supplies and what do you know the job's already done, and guess what? It's just like I told him I would do it. I stood there in amazement. I could not believe it. I knocked on the door but nobody answered. I'll see him again since I'm over there every week and let him know how I feel. Man, I was fuming. I guess I'm lucky I didn't go buy everthing first. I think I'll start requiring some kind of deposit up front before I do a job like this again.

[Eric ELM]

You better make that a non refundable deposit on your jobs, in case you get one like this again and wants their deposit back after they do the job. What a bummer, you should send him a bill for the advice. ;)

[65hoss]

I like Eric's idea. Send him a consulting bill. You'll never see a check, but he'll know your ticked.

[dhicks]

I'd be mad as HE-LL too. People like that are nothing but sponges. He probably did it himself or called someone to do it immediately. I'd let him know that in no uncertain terms that his yard and the horse he rode in on can can go to HE-LL :angry:

[LoneStarLawn]

What happened to kindly advice...If you set up a landscape job make sure you get a deposit first. I understand where you are coming from, but alot of problems can be solved by us before they occur. Be proud that someone took your advice and made their lawn look better.

[Lee Homan]

I'm sure he did the work himself. If he would have just been honest about it in the beginning I would be ok about it. I wouldn't even mind giving him some suggestions and him do the work himself but to lead me on and give me the go ahead to do the job that's what ticks me.

[Ocutter]

I see the roundup bombs being loaded as we speak! Its getting so that even the homeowner is cutting you out money much less the competition. Lesson learned.

[slingshot]

well i would go with the grass seed water baloons .fill up a baloon with grass seed then fill with water and do a drive by aiming for the mulch beds. nothing like grass groing in nice new mulch

[jjfehr]

send him a bill for the materials that you were going to buy!!!!
At least make him think you bought the materials to do the job as requested. This will at least make him contact you again, that way you can state your case!

[LoneStarLawn]

Such professionalism on this site :( (seed ballons and roundup)

[Island Lawn]

Sounds like eric has a suggestion about getting a non-refundable deposit (earnest money?) in the future. For now, send him a consulting bill and congradulate him in his good taste in choosing to go with your plan. While your at it, give him a real high bid for maintenance.

My .02

[cos]

I would send him a bill for a service call. when you send the bill, include a stern letter stating something like:

Dear sir,

During our conversation on Saturday May 12th you had requested my services and I introduced a verbal proposal that you told me to start and complete on Monday May 14th. Upon arriving to your residence, I noticed that the work that I had suggested was completed the way I explained to you. I know that we made a firm comitement to this date, and the work was to be done by me as the way I requested. It was obvious that you had not contacted me to change, nor cancel our arrangements.

In order to cover expenses (Fuel, Time, Scheduling, etc.), I have enclosed an invoice for a service charge. On the invoice you will notice that it is to be paid- net 30 days.



Cordially,


Your Name

[Nathan]

Ever hear of a contract?
There is a reason why legit businesses, at least in WA state, are required to be licensed contractors.

[KirbysLawn]

A deposit for what, an estimate? I didn't read about any work being done. Sounds like you gave an estimate and he decided to do it himself, sorry but that happens often.

Have some of you never took your car and had a machanic give you an estimate but yet have someone else do the work? I had my oil changed a few weeks ago, on the brake inspection the caliper was stuck, they gave me an estimate, HOWEVER, I fixed the brakes myself. Is it resonable for the auto shop to send me an invoice for work that was never done? Don't think so.


Now he has done some work and did it just as you would have, he may think this is easy and start his own lawn business, now that would really burn you up!:mad:

[thelawnguy]

If he didnt sign a contract and/or leave a deposit the only one you should be mad at is yourself.

Admire the guys handywork and let it go.

[cos]

Contracts in the state of PA can be verbal or written. Why would you draw one up right there on the spot if the guy gave the ok, and you are taking his word that Monday is fine? And I am sure that you draw up contracts in front of all your clientele and ask to sign and then wait in line.

HMMMMMMMM- OK

[KirbysLawn]

Originally posted by jjfehr
send him a bill for the materials that you were going to buy!!!!


Give me a break!! Have none of you ever asked for an estimate and decided not to accept it? Bill for something you were going to buy? No contract no deal, period.

Very well stated Bill.

[cos]

Sorry Ray, but the man said go ahead and do it. HENSE, that is a verbal agreement. If your mechanic said $45 to fix them, and you said OK. Then that it is an agreement too. Would your mechanic require a contract to fix brakes?

[KirbysLawn]

I could scan the last work order on my repair. I signed a work order to approve work, there was an estimate for other repairs which I did not sign. They only did the work I signed for, if they had did any other work they would have been SOL.

As for the question, no a contract is not required, but I did sign a work order which is the same.

A VERBAL AGREEMENT IS ONLY WORTH THE PAPER IT'S WRITTEN ON.

[thelawnguy]

Originally posted by cos
Why would you draw one up right there on the spot if the guy gave the ok, and you are taking his word that Monday is fine?

Your question has already been answered in Lee's opening post. Face it, look up "customer" in the Thesaurus and see synonyms such as a$$hole, $#ithead, etc. This threads' question just proves why.

I for one carry blank contract/proposal forms in my truck. Everyone signs one. If you are a registered contractor, in this state its the law.

PS: No mechanic would touch your vehicle without you first signing the work order. None.

[cos]

I have never went into a shop and was told to sign or even initial a work order. Even when I had it at my dealship. Everything was done over the phone. If you live by having people sign contracts, thats fine, but what if someone says, hey can you add this to it? Do you rewrite, or write another proposal for the little extra work that the customer wants done? I don't always live by written contracts. i have been stung in the past, but not everything has to always be written in stone. And, when I said stung, it wasn't over a written or verbal contract neither.

[Nathan]

Originally posted by cos
Contracts in the state of PA can be verbal or written. Why would you draw one up right there on the spot if the guy gave the ok, and you are taking his word that Monday is fine? And I am sure that you draw up contracts in front of all your clientele and ask to sign and then wait in line.

HMMMMMMMM- OK
Why would you draw one up right there? To keep this from happening. BTW it doesn't need to be right there. You can mail it to them. I will admit that we do send a contract to every potential customer and do not start any work until a copy is signed and returned to us. Get burnt once too many times and most of you will probably do the same.
Verbal contracts are great, but almost impossible to enforce, especially if it goes into disagreement.

[cos]

Please do not get me wrong. I DO, send written contracts and sent ALOT this year. BUT, occasionally, and some people should admit, that they will (now and then) use an oral aggreement.

Can some LCO's here admit that they use verbal aggrements?

[Eric ELM]

Cos, I will admit it. I have never had a contract in the past 16 years and I've had no problems so far.

[LoneStarLawn]

We do on some..

[KirbysLawn]

Originally posted by cos
Can some LCO's here admit that they use verbal aggrements?

Yes I do, for existing customers who I have delt with for some time. I also have done some small jobs with a simple "ok go ahead". For new folks who I have no idea about I require a deposit before I buy supplies for any job.

[lawnboy82]

with me, when i am gonna do a descent sized job, and it is somewhat local. i will either call the people up the night before, or go to their home and go over it once more just to make sure that everything is good to go. and if i do go and get materials and the job is done or i have extras leftover i just burn them up somewhere else where i will be paid to do so. sometimes though if the materials are paid for i will bring them to people who are friends of the family and just get it off the truck. but really. if you have a job that will take up a fair amount of your time, go and talk to the people the day before, night before, etc. or even just call. this is why i do that. not to mention that i dont have a life. lol. however also if you go and look once more when you are not working at the neighbors, or at that home i feel it gives you a chance to walk around and just think about how you are going to do this job. customer doesnt have to be home, you just have to walk around and look for yourself. as for contracts. i use them liberally. if a job is going to be into the thousands then i will use one. but for a couple of hundred i dont like doing the whole write up process. you gotta know when to use em and when not to. plus i have done jobs before where even if i had written a contract i still would have gotten burned because of things i would never have even thought to put in there at the time. but hey- live and learn

[HOMER]

I see this going nowhere fast.

I get burned enough by my friends, I try not to get burned by customers but it happens from time to time...............nature of the business, any business.

Be glad you didn't buy all the materials before you went and chalk it up to a great learning experience.

[cos]

I am in no way saying that he is right for what he did, nor am I saying that he is wrong. I feel that yes they had an agreement, and yes it wasn't written. I really do feel that there are people out there that are that ignorant and say "Hell with him, I'm gonna do it myself" Well, it is sad to say that some times these things happen and that I really feel that he should send a bill for a service call. Even if he decides not to pay it, and most likely he won't, atleast he will get the hint that he should think twice before putting someone off like that. I don't know if I would have gone and paid for materials on a verbal agreement, maybe I would have if there was a full moon or sun out :), but the fact still remains that he got screwed because of the simple fact of the potential customers ignorance.

Send the bill Lee and then post back with the responce you get. It should be good.

[Esby]

My uncle is a very respected lawyer in his area and one night at a dinner convension an aquintance, who was a doctor, starting chatting with him. This led to a discusion about how the doctor had many people asking him for medical advice outside of his practice and he was getting sick of it. He asked my uncle if there was any sort of law that prohibited them from free-loading like that. My uncle stated that "yes," you can bill somebody, according to law, for advice given if you could bill them while working in your specified area. The doctor said thank you for the help and continued on with the dinner. The next day my uncle wrote the doctor a bill for the advice he gave and dropped it in the mail. Ironic isn't it.

[KirbysLawn]

Not exactly true. While I am licensed to apply pesticides in NC, I am not licensed as a Pest Control Consultant. Therefore, I cannot bill for consulting since it's not in my scope of practice.

It all depends on local laws.

Did he pay the fee? He's crazy if he did!

[Esby]

No, my uncle recieved a phone call from his friend and he was a little tempered. My uncle calmed him down and just showed him that if he is going to bill, then he should be prepared to get some of "his own medicine". It was more of a joke than anything. But he made a very good point in the sitsuation.

[Keith]

Originally posted by HOMER
I see this going nowhere fast.

I get burned enough by my friends, I try not to get burned by customers but it happens from time to time...............nature of the business, any business.

Be glad you didn't buy all the materials before you went and chalk it up to a great learning experience.

I totally agree. You will probably never trust this guy again, and your business relationship may well be over. But at least you didn't buy the materials. I have had this happen and bought the materials :mad:

[cos]

Very true.

This gentleman ruined his reputation (personally), and probably still does. Atleast now you know. This is just another part of business. I would still do work on verbal agreements. I would most likely never buy materials without a deposit. Funny thing. I have a mulch job to finish up today, and I am going to eat my words. I bought the mulch without a deposit. It was only 2 yards, but if it was anymore a deposit would be required. I Knew that I could use the mulch elsewhere and said screw it. This a lawn customer anyway and a date was set to apply them for yesterday, the same day that Lee got burnt. Ironic!

Oh well, atleast I am honest and can admit that. :)

[Lee Homan]

Example: My pest control guy comes out every month to spray. We have no contract. Sure, one month I could go down to Home Depot and get the pesticides and do it myself but I wouldn't do that. He knows that he is supposed to be here a certain day each month and thats the verbal agreement we have. I wouldn't dare call him up and tell him I was going to do it myself this month.

Example: I call the roto rooter to come out and fix a clogged drain. Well, by the time he gets here I've already unclogged it myself.
Should this guy not collect some kind of service charge? If I was going to attempt to fix it myself than I should've waited before I called him.

The only thing I'm upset about was that I could've have spent the money on the materials only to show up and the work already be done. Like I said I wouldn't mind giving him suggestions and he do it himself, but don't tell me to do it than do it yourself. A call would have been nice too. I'm just glad I went back over there first before I started anything.

Again, I think this problem will be easily rectified by requiring a deposit on future jobs.

[Chuck Sinclair]

;) I won't put them on the schedule with out a non refundable deposit.

[cos]

Sock it to him. He should have never gone and done that to you. You have every right to do it. Some others here may not feel that way, but like you just did, reverse the rolls. What if, I noticed someone doing work on my neighbors house and called them over to take a look at the work that needs to be done at mine. I tell the guy to do the work and set up a scheduled date to start. I then go ahead and fix the problem myself or hire someone else to do the work. HMMMMMMMMMMM. I just screwed another guy that I told to do the work on a certain day. Should I expect a bill or an irate phone call?........ I think so.