View Full Version : color problems with belgard
04-27-2006, 10:10 PM
Awlright guys, I just want to see what you think. I've attached some pics. We installed a Belgard Bergerac Circle Kit col. Brittaney Beige. Surrounded with supposed to be the same color Brittaney Beige Bergerac pavers. But, as you can see by the pics there is a definate color difference between the circle pack, and the pavers around it. Belgard has just told me basically that it's not their fault because their circle kits are made from a different mold and dye lot. But come on, maybe they should give them different color names. My customer is pissed off to say the least. How would you handle this one?
04-27-2006, 10:27 PM
Welcome to the club!!! we had this EXACT problem last year, hence we told Belgard to f*********. The circles are made in a different part. Hell they told us we have different color lots between Southern PA and North East PA.
Basically redidi the whole thing!!
04-27-2006, 11:07 PM
That is why Belgard sucks!
04-28-2006, 12:43 AM
Did you try pressure washing the field down? Are they the some color when they are wet?
I feel for you, that really sucks. Live and learn. Who chose the product, you or the customer?
And Chris, I just want to make a comment the EP Henrys wall corners and circles come from a different plant also. And we have already had some issues with them this year. I just wanted to point that out to you b/c I know you install a ton of EP Henry, and to insult you anyway I can on these boards.
THis should be a warning to all also, watch out for last years stock mixing with this years, some of the color differneces there are ridiculous!
More and more I am becoming a bigger fan of Techo-Bloc.
04-28-2006, 09:45 AM
Belgard is garbage. They should just stick with the box stores. Saw a patio done with Dub Cob Mod ( supposed to be Fossil Beige ) layed about 4 years ago, it looks like a slab of tan concrete, it is so fadded. You know Bob and Jim got fired. That whole organization sux ( Belgard/Balcon/Old Castle ) why so many different names just in the mid atlantic for the same crap product?
04-28-2006, 10:22 PM
When I was installing, I had a job which called for Brownstone Red Dublin Cobble Modular. So, I installed the 3 piece system, then used 6x9 brownstone red for the soldier border. Also threw in a Brownstone red circle...... Anyhow, that was the last Red Patio I installed. the Modular sets came from 2 different color lots. The rectangles came from a different color lot and the circle came from a different color lot. I will try to find the pictures from my Laptop in the next day or so.
Everyone got fired from Belgard because they have so much product on the yard. No one is buying their trash. They begged Old Castle to invest in a new Paver Plant because they couldn't keep up with demand..... well, their product got so bad that the largest suppliers of Belgard in the area dropped their product, as did most contractors..... long story short, I don't think the new machines have done much yet... cause they can't empty their yard. We personally sent back about 20 tractor trailer loads of material last year that was either bad because of color, Thick efflorescence (slurry on the paver), height differences of 1/2" (we had pavers that were less than 2" thick and pavers that were over 3" thick on the same pallet), "over tumbled product", under tumbled product.....
Also, Belgard had been selling Dub. Mod. to everyone labeled with 120sf/pallet down here. Well, we actually laid out a square in our back room and there was only 112sf in the cubes...... thus, if you had a fairly large job, it would be easy to run 1 or more cubes short on your jobs.....
My suggestion..........buy Techo-Bloc.
04-28-2006, 10:59 PM
ahhh Belgard stories!!!!
1) 2 trailer loades of random pattern, they were all tapered at the bottoms, so on the bottom they sat flush on top 1/4" openings. That was strike 1. Number 2 was that damn circle screw up and Dan yes we watered it down and they were 2 totally different colors!!!!!!
the final strike 3 was when they tried to charge me for the 2 bad trailer loads and another job when they mixed the grey/charcoal blend and mixed Brown in with it, told me to chip each piece by hand and told me the grey and charcoal and brown looked great!!! and then the salesman told me to deal with it.
Like alot of people we no longer installthe product.
PS: they also own Glen -gery!!
04-30-2006, 10:28 PM
Hey Guys, I am in the process of bidding about 3K sq. ft. of Belgard Dublin Cobble. About a $37K job, and it has to be right. I have used Belgard on one other job without any problems.I am now a little spooked by all this info. What would you guys suggest I use that will look the same as Belgard's Dublin Cobble?
05-01-2006, 08:47 PM
The MD Balcon plant has gone down the tubes ever since Jim Zester was made General Manager. I never did like him. Before Jim, they had a young G.M. whom was very motivated and really on the ball.
Firing Jim and Bob was the best thing they could have done. I have often wondered when someone would wake up.
Its a shame they went down hill. That company really stood for good things at one point in time.
Many companies trade under different names. Balcon for the box stores, Belgard for the contractors. With the recent national growth of hardscape industry - There is a large paver saw manufacturer that is about to make some *positive* industry advancements. And with those advancements, they are thinking of trading to contractors under a different name. Many companies do this.
05-02-2006, 04:48 PM
Totally disagree with you guys on this one. I like Belgard, great customer service. It looks like you used the beige and the gray on the walkway. I have not had a problem with this at all. We are laying a patio right now, and the colors are fine. Maybe on that side of the country it is different though.
05-02-2006, 04:57 PM
Old Castle has Balcon / Belgard plants across the U.S.
The colors will vary by location. Pavers are made of concrete. concrete is comprised of cement, sand and gravel. Sand and gravel will / can vary drastically in color region by region, which in turn will effect the final outcome of the color of the product.
05-02-2006, 08:09 PM
Yeah, I know that there can be slight color variations due to dye lots, and the different molds, but come on. No, I didn't use the beige and the grey. I wouldn't be so stupid as to do that. It was all supposed to be Brittaney Beige. That's ok. I guess that's why I'll go back to Techo-Bloc. For all you diehard Belgard fans, maybe you should try using Techo. It's a far better product.
05-02-2006, 10:26 PM
Never heard of techo? Not saying your stupid, just saying i have never seen that kind of difference in color in belgard.
05-03-2006, 08:20 AM
look at the pictures from the beginning of the thread. That shows the color difference. That's my issue. I can't believe that belgard will not stand behind the problem and offer some solution whether it is paying to replace the field or the circle to match better. They just basically told me its my problem. I will never be put in that situation again. I guess they don't have Techo-Bloc in Michigan. It's probably the best made paver and wall system that I've used. Color blends are awesome. Great customer support.
05-03-2006, 05:52 PM
If that is what they said, i can understand your issue. I would send that picture to belgard.com, and see what gets done. I'm sure they dont want to loose any business.
05-04-2006, 08:21 AM
Well at least I see you are a man of your word. guys this guy was in my office yesteday and took a pretty good whipping:hammerhead: because of past people in my area and product issues. I told him flat out you will not see us changing over from our 2 current supplers right away if ever, but I am willing to give him enough rope to hang himself:) or make himself and Belgard shine again in my eyes. Again this is my opinion, but he has been the only Belgard rep i have had in my area that a)looks you in the eye when your talking to him, b) has now kept his word of following up with the folks on here c)hasn't made any excuses regarding.
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