How do you discipline an employee?

[Mr.Mow-It-All]

I have one full time employee. My first full time employee. Last week he was late 3 times (1 hour late each time). He works hard, still not that proficient though after a month. Was wondering how to discourage this late arrival. Should I dock his pay? How to do this. Also, what about things that he breaks. I know things are going to happen, but along with being late this week 3 times, he broke a latch on a wooden gate (that cost me $8 and an hour of my time to fix), lost my $65 knife, and a padlock.

Do you guys pay a bonus if all goes well at the end of the week? Make them pay for things (like the latch)? Although I know accidents happen and don't feel like I should make him pay for every little thing, but would like to encourage him to pay better attention so things like that won't happen. Do you give some sort of warnings or something like that.

Also to add, I have already been looking for other help, but just hard to come by right now. I would say he needs this job more than I need him, but with the labor market so low right now can't afford to just get rid of him.

Would appreciate the advice from the pros here as I look forward to adding many more employees and crews in the future.

Thanks,
Drew

[Likestomow]

Do you absolutely need this guy? If so, you'll just have to put up with it.

If you warn him and he still is late and you don't fire him, he will figure out who has the power between you two. Try pulling out from where you meet him at your designated work time. Let him come late and find you gone. If he has a cell phone he will call you and you can direct him to meet you somewhere. Just like a child, he should understand that starting time is starting time and you will begin with or without him.

Try putting an ad in your local "nickel" paper, something like this:

"Lawn care helper needed. Must have verifiable experience and own vehicle. Top pay $10 - $15 per hour."

You will get lots of calls from dead beats wanting to make big bucks for little or no work, but, you will also get some calls from guys who do have the experience you are looking for. A good guy is worth a minimum of $10 around here.

[sheshovel]

1st time late..warning..2nd time late..don't bother to show your face.3rd time late..your fired!

[dcplace2004]

Mount him to your trailer and have him hold the equipment in the hot azz sun...

[befnme]

work on a points system .1 point = warning , 2 points = 1 day off no pay ,3 points = fired .

[CAL-LANDSCAPER]

If you're going to have employees, YOU need to have company policies.
Rules are needed and those you hire need to know them.
Should also be in written forms and signed by employees.

[Evergreenpros]

Not sure about your state but you have to watch out for your unemployment rating. Here in Washington state they pay full benefits for just about everything. I kid you not, 4 months ago we had a person work for 2 weeks, quit and claimed the job was to hard. The Washington State Unemployment department gave her full benefits!!!! We even tried to appeal it and she won again!!!! We had another person work 4 hours and walk off the job, she got full benefits as well!!! We had another employee who was pregnant and got full benefits, I tried to fight that one and lost. She even consulted a lawyer and you know what he told her to do at the hearing????

LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE!!!! You will win.

So guess what, she lied lied lied lied lied and got full benefits!!

It may not seem like much money but these few claims will cost us about $25,000 more in unemployment insurance over the next 5 years!!!

The government, what a joke.
So be careful about rolling over employees and firing for everything. Make sure you document because of you let these little claims go if you ever get 15+ employees it will cost you through the nose.

[ArkansasLawns]

You made it before you hired him. You will survive after he quits you when you need him most.

1st time- verbal warning
2nd write up a warning
3rd day off no pay
4th- there is no 4

Get something in writing. Make sure all employees read date and sign it.
Every thing is in the past and today they start with a clean slate.

[upidstay]

I like to use a wiffle ball bat myself...

[mulcahy mowing]

Do you absolutely need this guy? If so, you'll just have to put up with it.

If you warn him and he still is late and you don't fire him, he will figure out who has the power between you two. Try pulling out from where you meet him at your designated work time. Let him come late and find you gone. If he has a cell phone he will call you and you can direct him to meet you somewhere. Just like a child, he should understand that starting time is starting time and you will begin with or without him.

i like it:rolleyes:

[Fantasy Lawns]

My normal payday is Monday after the full work week.... if they are on time, in uniform & no safety issues I pay em on Friday of the work week .... 3 lates in the season is a day off no pay .... after that I start to look fore a replacement

[deereman]

When ever one of our helpers get out of line, or do something wrong , I rub there noses in it, then spank them with a rolled up newspaper. Hey works for me!

[sheshovel]

Well I like to spank them..but with my bare hand!Or a little black whip I carry around just for that purpose!LOL!!!

[grass-scapes]

i like it:rolleyes:

I had the same problem. Wasn't an hour each day, but 10-15 minutes, EVERY DAY. After a week of it, I told him...Start time is 8 am unless notified the night before, then its 7 am. If you aren't here, I will leave without you. If you meet me somewhere, I will not take you back to your car at the end of the day because it will be out of my way. You will have to follow me all day in your car.
He hasn't been late since (yet)

[PROCUT1]

Welcome to the "Entitlement Generation" You should be happy he shows up at all.

[dkeisala]

1st time late..warning..2nd time late..don't bother to show your face.3rd time late..your fired!
Yep, I'd rather do the work myself than wonder if you're comin' to work.

[Grassmechanic]

Do you have an employee handbook? If not, you should. In it would be your attendance policy. i.e. verbal warning, written warning, 1 day off, 1 week off, dismissal. A handbook will protect you in the event the employee takes you to court. Oh, and make sure you document every discipline action taken. Have the employee sign it.
**disclaimer**this may vary from state to state.

[maintenanceguy]

You've got to decide if this guy is worth the work. I think you already know.

Make your life simple. Don't plan special punishments. Either he's working out or he's not. Tell him once. Everybody gets a second chance but nobody gets a third. Everybody also has bad luck...flat tire, car broke down, child got sick...once in a long while. As long as it's rare, it's forgivable.

But if it's a regular problem tell em' you won't put up with it again and don't. Tell him that the next time he's not here on time...you'll consider that his resignation. And then stick to it or he'll figure out that he's the boss, not you.

[Mr.Mow-It-All]

You've got to decide if this guy is worth the work. I think you already know.

Make your life simple. Don't plan special punishments. Either he's working out or he's not. Tell him once. Everybody gets a second chance but nobody gets a third. Everybody also has bad luck...flat tire, car broke down, child got sick...once in a long while. As long as it's rare, it's forgivable.

But if it's a regular problem tell em' you won't put up with it again and don't. Tell him that the next time he's not here on time...you'll consider that his resignation. And then stick to it or he'll figure out that he's the boss, not you.

As far as following through with the discipline, I know you guys are right. Since I didn't really go every little detail (took it for granted that someone would show up for work on time everyday) with him, what is the best way I should start now. Two out of the 3 days were decent reasons (excuses) but the third was he just over slept his alarm. Although, we start at different times a lot too. Sometimes 7, sometimes 8, rarely 9. The biggest problem is he doesn't have transportation. He catches a bus, it isn't out of the way for me, but he does have to get the bus 45 min before work, so when I want him there at 7, he has to get on the bus a 6:15, But still that is his problem not mine.

And yes I would rather work alone than someone I can't depend on, however we are working 10-12 hour days the 2 of us. If I get rid of him, I have to have a backup plan or else work won't get done. That is part of the reason I am looking for someone else right now, so that I can have more leverage with this guy.

[ECS]

The first time late, I would give him the benefit of the doubt, 2nd time a warning about his futer as an employee, 3rd time out the door on his arse. Suffer without them, but never suffer with them!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rodfather]

1st time they are given a warning
2nd time they are given a 1-3 day suspension depending on the occurence
3rd time they are told their services are no longer required thank you very much

[Gene $immons]

Its a joke findine good employees. Ask the Mexican crews that you see out during the day if they know of anyone looking for work. They will show up every day, and already have experience.

White trash boys are always a problem. I won't hire anyone unless they have a way to work. Riding the bus or having their girlfriend dropping them off and picking them up Never works.

They should be local too. Midwest city and Del city guys are out of luck with me.

[cleancutccl]

I've had good success with docking pay. 1 time late during a week means a dollar per hour pay docked for the week, it gets their attention. If the problem is consistently occuring they no longer have a job. Check to see if your state is a right to work state, if so you can get rid of an employee at any time.

[Dirty Water]

Never ever dock pay. As an employee (Manager/Foreman for a company) if I had my pay docked, I'd walk..and I do the hiring/firing.

Docking pay is bad for morale, if you want to keep the guy, you need to do positive discipline, not negative discpline.

If your not willing to do that, just fire him.

Positive discipline could be as simple as taking the guy to lunch, explaining that your unhappy in a unthreatening way, and telling him that he's got one more chance.

[Mr.Mow-It-All]

Its a joke findine good employees. Ask the Mexican crews that you see out during the day if they know of anyone looking for work. They will show up every day, and already have experience.

White trash boys are always a problem. I won't hire anyone unless they have a way to work. Riding the bus or having their girlfriend dropping them off and picking them up Never works.

They should be local too. Midwest city and Del city guys are out of luck with me.


That is what I have been doing, so far no luck. What about wages, since I am new to the area not sure what fair wages is for someone who is decent. THe guy I have now I am paying $8 per hour. If I find a mexican who is experienced should I pay more and works good should I start out more, or start at 8 and work up from there as I see their experience?

Thanks for the help,
Drew

[Gene $immons]

Experience deservis more pay. If you are having to re-do work that he already did...then his experience is no good.

I also need someone with a decent attitude, I would rather train someone and pay them a little less at first, than to work with a know it all a-hole.

I also need people who dont have a lot of personal problems, or who drink or do drugs. Or someone who is asking "how many more lawns" all day.

And they need a way to get to work. Having someone drop them off will always fail at some point. They need their own car.

I have guys on the payroll from $6.50 to $9.50

Good luck finding a guy who has a good attitude, legal to work here, not on drugs, willing to work hard, and has a drivers license and car. They dont exist.

But I would say that you will find a keeper in one out of 10 interviews.

[tylermckee]

its not like you can really expect much from an employee when you are hardly paying them enough to live off and expecting them to bust their ass all day. They could get a job at walmart or a grocery store and make the same wages or better + benefits and a pleasent work environment. I guess if you keep looking you might get lucky.

[Dirty Water]

No wonder you guys can't get any decent help if your highest paid guy is making $9.50.

We hire inexperienced laborers at $10.50....Of course, in WA, minimum wage is $7.35, if minimum wage in Oklahoma is $4.25 or something, than $9.50 doesn't sound so bad.

[tylermckee]

we had a guy interview for a job as a pipe layer, he had worked for another construction company in the area for the last 2 years and was still just a laborer, and he told my boss he thought he was worth $22 an hour ;) he's probably still looking for work.

[rodfather]

No wonder you guys can't get any decent help if your highest paid guy is making $9.50.

I was kind of thinking the same...I start guys at least $3 more than that. Regulars make $17.50 - $22.50 an hour.

[Mr.Mow-It-All]

Well I am just trying to figure out where to start. Another lco here said he starts at 8 but, doe he pays more, one of his foremans makes about 27k. But I don't want to start someone at 10-12 per hour if they suck. It works better for me to start lower, then if they are worth more, pay them more, but I can see where I may not even get the quality guys without starting higher. I might try an ad to pay 10-14 per hour doe, and see what happens. And for around her for someone to be pushing a lawnmower around or a weedeater all day, that is good money for general labor.

[J&R Landscaping]

I would see if they guy can get his own transportation. Why was he late? I can understand that it does not make a difference because the work needs to be done but if its bus problems, I'd tell him to find a new route to work or that I would pick him up somewhere but it would cost him $10-20 a week depending on where it is.

You need the help and he needs the job(maybe). Why was he late? That would definitly make a difference if it is true and not a lie!

[maintenanceguy]

As far as following through with the discipline, I know you guys are right. Since I didn't really go every little detail (took it for granted that someone would show up for work on time everyday) with him, what is the best way I should start now. Two out of the 3 days were decent reasons (excuses) but the third was he just over slept his alarm. Although, we start at different times a lot too. Sometimes 7, sometimes 8, rarely 9. The biggest problem is he doesn't have transportation. He catches a bus, it isn't out of the way for me, but he does have to get the bus 45 min before work, so when I want him there at 7, he has to get on the bus a 6:15, But still that is his problem not mine.

And yes I would rather work alone than someone I can't depend on, however we are working 10-12 hour days the 2 of us. If I get rid of him, I have to have a backup plan or else work won't get done. That is part of the reason I am looking for someone else right now, so that I can have more leverage with this guy.

I know you feel bad for this guy and his tough life. I'm a sucker for the under dog too. But most people have the lives they chose for themselves. If he doesn't have transportation that is probably because he chose a life that can't afford transportation. He chose that life by being undependable, not showing up for jobs on time, and not making much of himself.

You chose instead to take a risk, start a business, show up every day, and work your back side off from dawn to dusk to make something of yourself. Don't let his choice to be a slacker drag you down.

I've made the same mistake lots of times. Figuring that I can improve some poor guys situation by offering some advice or giving a second chance. I mean...all the guy needs is a chance that no body else gave him, right? WRONG! He is who he decided to be. Whether he's a dependable, go-getter or a tardy slacker, he decided to be that. He's not your problem.

If you want to help the less fortunate, volunteer at the soup kitchen on Sunday or make a donation to the red cross. Both great things to do. But Monday through Friday, you run a business and your future and your family depend on you doing it as well as you can. Don't let your business become burdened by a con man that's taking advantage of your good intentions.

[Mr.Mow-It-All]

Thanks maintenanceguy,
Yeh you are probably right, I will have to work on some stuff this week. I will have to activley try harder to find some more help, and to set down some ground rules for this guy I got.

[Gene $immons]

On the subject of pay.

I can run an ad in the local newspaper offering a job for $6.00 to $7.00 an hour and literally have the phone ringing all day.

But, the quality of the guys responding to the ad is poor to say the least. But there are always diamonds in the rough.

I am not paying upwards of $10.00 an hour until they prove themselves for a while.

Plus, the higher the payroll, the higher the payroll taxes,and the work comp rates.

My best employees have low overhead. They either live at home with mom, have no kids or a mortgage to pay. That is what I look for.

And yes, a lot of applicants simply say that they need more money. Maybe they should finish highschool so that they are not answering an ad for pushing a lawnmower. Oh, and don't have 3 kids by the time you are 20.

[PROCUT1]

My first interview question " If I pay you $15 per hour, Will you work harder than If I pay you $9" If the answer is yes, I move on to the next person.

[SWD]

Warning first time, an 'ol Bobby upside the head with a shovel second, shotgun the third.

[HOOLIE]

I know you feel bad for this guy and his tough life. I'm a sucker for the under dog too. But most people have the lives they chose for themselves. If he doesn't have transportation that is probably because he chose a life that can't afford transportation. He chose that life by being undependable, not showing up for jobs on time, and not making much of himself.

You chose instead to take a risk, start a business, show up every day, and work your back side off from dawn to dusk to make something of yourself. Don't let his choice to be a slacker drag you down.

I've made the same mistake lots of times. Figuring that I can improve some poor guys situation by offering some advice or giving a second chance. I mean...all the guy needs is a chance that no body else gave him, right? WRONG! He is who he decided to be. Whether he's a dependable, go-getter or a tardy slacker, he decided to be that. He's not your problem.

If you want to help the less fortunate, volunteer at the soup kitchen on Sunday or make a donation to the red cross. Both great things to do. But Monday through Friday, you run a business and your future and your family depend on you doing it as well as you can. Don't let your business become burdened by a con man that's taking advantage of your good intentions.

This is all SOOOO true....

Chronic tardiness, or repeatedly missing work, it's not about oversleeping or missing the bus...it's all about a lack of personal discipline and a lack of respect for their job and how their behavior affects their co-workers and boss.

I've NEVER seen a chronically tardy employee change their ways. Ever.

[shortgut]

let him sit at home for a couple of days

[upidstay]

I was sent to a management seminar a few years back. Along with "team building exercises " nonsense I learned one thing:
"Any bad behaviour you fail to correct, you condone."
If you let them get away with it, it becomes policy.

[Az Gardener]

we are working 10-12 hour days the 2 of us. .

You need two employees not one, that overtime is killing you if you are operating legally. Start interviewing, he may get the picture and straighten out. Either way you need another guy, or two if you dump him. If that is not something you want to pursue raise your prices. Thin the herd so to speak and do less work and make more money.

You also need to start at the same time its a business not a hobby. How can you expect him to operate in a professional manor when your not. Your Business is a reflection of you. Real companies have a set start time they may vary seasonally but not day to day.

[smarino21]

how do you guys train your foreman, the guy i got isnt doing that good of a job at being a forman. He cuts great but i mean i see **** blown like a kid did it. It is starting to look upprofessional. Help me out here what should i do ? I run a 2 man crew. Is it a terrible idea to get a hispanic guy to do everything but work double?