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texas
05-01-2006, 09:16 PM
im buyin a cat 16 ton ex, decked out for $150000 to begin a new work. farmers always need canals cleaned out and there is PLENTY of other work with all the new houses being built. if they want it done, ill do it.

my question is, should my next piece of equipment be a 226 skid (will come in handy for hurricane cleanups next year) or a 3 ton cat mini ex?

what will be more profitable? for price reasons, they'll both be decked out with a/c cab ect. it'll be about a $10000 price difference, w/ the skid cheaper.:)

ksss
05-01-2006, 09:27 PM
what will be more profitable: Thats easy, Not running CAT would be a great start:clapping:

Dirty Water
05-01-2006, 09:35 PM
Do you have something to move a Cat 308 with? Your going to want a small dump with tag trailer.

Just FYI, Scag48 just picked up a Cat 312 for about $30k cheaper than your 308...Might want to shop a little more.

bobcat9957
05-01-2006, 09:39 PM
Wouldnt the 16 ton machine with a thumb be like the ultimate cleanup machine. But in my opinion a small dozer like a D3 would be the most useful if you plan to do house lots etc. We use that machine alot. Quite a few landscapers in the area find it cheaper to hire us for the day than try to spread fill or loam with a skid or mini. Well theres my .02.

DKinWA
05-01-2006, 10:17 PM
The 16 ton machine is the Cat 315 which is the next size up from the 312. At $150K, I'm sure it's got all the bells and whistles.

Dirty Water
05-01-2006, 10:21 PM
The 16 ton machine is the Cat 315 which is the next size up from the 312. At $150K, I'm sure it's got all the bells and whistles.

Heh, your right, For some reasion I was thinking 308 because I thought he said 16k pounds .Its been a long hot day and I broke two septic mains. Typical mondays.

:(

DKinWA
05-01-2006, 10:26 PM
I guess may day wasn't so bad after all:)

qps
05-01-2006, 11:06 PM
what will be more profitable: Thats easy, Not running CAT would be a great start:clapping:

Hey............;)

Scag48
05-02-2006, 01:21 AM
You better watch out Kaiser, I can be in Idaho faster than nobody's business. Hahaha. Sorry I didn't get pics of our new machine guys, too busy making $$$!!! All I can say, however, is that the machine is awesome. Our buckets show up this week and our sales guy is delivering our new laser, we ended up getting a stick mounted receiver to go with it for digging footings, etc.

As far as this thread originally goes, I'm not sure how you can compare profits between a 16 ton 315 and a <12 ton mini excavator and a skid steer. However, we run the gamut, and the 312 is way more fun, I mean more profitable, yeah.

Gravel Rat
05-02-2006, 03:48 AM
Yes Caterpillar is the most expensive brand to buy on the planet Cat has to add another 10 grand just for the Yellow paint and the Cat name :laugh:

When I looked through the spec's on the 16 ton size machine the Kobelco SK160LC its one of the better machines. A contractor I work for has one it definatly out digs the 160 Hitachi and Deere.

The contractors here use the 16 ton machines the most because they are able to carry them on a tag trailer behind a tandem axle dump truck. It saves lowbed charges which saves the customer 600-800 dollars having a lowbed company moving the machine around.

tylermckee
05-02-2006, 04:16 AM
I wouldnt bother buying another piece of equipment right off the bat, you should be able to do 98% of what you want to do with the 315. I would just not bother doing the stuff you need a smaller machine for, rent one, or just sub it out. do as much as you can with as little as you can.

texas
05-02-2006, 08:17 AM
thanks for the responses. im probably gonna go cat though cuz its closer by a big margin. (distance wise aka:miles:laugh: )

Scag48
05-02-2006, 10:00 AM
Ain't nothin wrong with Cat, we have $200K invested in them. :rolleyes:

Gravel Rat
05-02-2006, 02:19 PM
There isn't any thing wrong with Cat its just they are the one of the more expensive brand out there. In the US Cat seems to be used far more than it is in Western Canada for residential construction. Caterpillar is still used for loaders and dozers but for excavators there are other brands that go the same amount of hours with very little troubles.

As for this poster from what he said he wants to do a 16 ton is the smallest he wants to go because it has the reach and the weight to it.

mrusk
05-02-2006, 02:33 PM
Cat ain't always expensive. Or i just got a smoking deal on my new 246b. Cat was acctually cheaper than case and bobcat.

Matt

texas
05-02-2006, 06:01 PM
how much more should cat be than jd or case?

murray83
05-02-2006, 06:36 PM
screw the cat,get the kobelco bladerunner ummm ED 150/160 size? its a dozer and excavator all in one we rented one to do a house lot last week oh man thats a toy i'd buy get the hydraulic thumb,clean up bucket and a good digging bucket and your set.

texas
05-02-2006, 06:40 PM
im gonna look into it murray83. thanks.:hammerhead: j/k:) on the hammerhead

texas
05-02-2006, 06:43 PM
looks neat. what's the price though?

Scag48
05-02-2006, 06:51 PM
They're expensive as hell! I looked at a used ED150 with around 1,500 hours and they were asking $115,000. That damn blade isn't worth that much to me although it would be nice to have.

murray83
05-02-2006, 08:02 PM
thats true but eh beats buying a dozer.

if thats too pricey get a hoe with the backfill blade local guy has one on his 312CL never seen one on a 315 though....its something i'd buy so u can grade the lot and push spoil about,its no D3 but it works.

that still leaves me to question...how are you gonna get your 315 from site to site?

Dirty Water
05-02-2006, 08:33 PM
How can the bladerunner be at all stable like a dozer?

Scag48
05-02-2006, 08:54 PM
A blade runner would only be useful for cutting roads or levelling pads. I can't see it doing any retainment pond work or anything of that sort. After all, it is an excavator with a 6 way blade attached.

texas
05-02-2006, 09:26 PM
that still leaves me to question...how are you gonna get your 315 from site to site?

18 wheeler and tractor trailer. i've seen some for sale locally.

Scag48
05-02-2006, 10:40 PM
I'm sorry if this comes out wrong, but do you know full and well what you're getting into? It sounds like you're getting the equipment before you've got the jobs/experience. There is more to running the excavation business than meets the eye, trust me. Having dabbled in it with smaller equipment, after buying a 312 it's been an eye opening experience. Things like transportation, legality issues, insurance, engineering for some jobs, permits, everything comes into play where they didn't before with small equipment. Just be aware of what buying a machine like this takes, it's not an easy feat. I'm feeling it right now, at times I think we've bitten off just a little more than we can chew with a 312, but I'm confident that with my previous experience I can make it work. I'm curious, do you have experience in the field?

ksss
05-03-2006, 01:21 AM
I was just having some fun with the CAT comment. I saw an opportunity and took it. Bill must be too busy running his 5130 I was sure I would get a rise out him. Damn the luck.

I often thought that if I got into some bigger iron I would consider a Blade Runner. It would work great on a lot of my jobs. Kobelco builds a good excavator. Actually they build an even better machine now that they are a part of CNH. Sorry it slipped::drinkup:

Scag48
05-03-2006, 01:31 AM
Kobelco does build an excellent machine, I'll give them that. Service is limited out here, however.

ksss
05-03-2006, 01:40 AM
I don't have a dealer here either. Boise and Salt Lake are the closest, which is 4-5 hours away.

Gravel Rat
05-03-2006, 04:41 AM
The blade on those excavators are mainly for stabilization and back filling its like any blade on a excavator its not that accurate.

I looked up a used 2005 Kobelco SK160 with 312 hours on it the price of the machine is 127,000 US funds. I found a 2005 315CL with 489 hours $145,469 found another 315 its a 2006 with 239 hours 163,500.

I found a 2005 Deere 160LC 552 hours 134,786 a 2006 Deere 160LC 184 hours 150,000 a 2006 160LC 3 hours for 160,000.

Caterpillar is a little higher on the price range to comparable machines their parts are more expensive too because you have to use factory Cat parts right down to oil filters.

Like I meantioned you guys get your underwear in a knot because your dealer is more than a hour away. Like I meantioned before any dealer for us is well over 4 hours away up to 150 miles one way. What in the h*ll is the big deal with your dealer being 4 hours away live with it for crying out loud. What do you need your dealer service man glued to your hip ?

You should have the most common parts you use on the machine at your shop like spare teeth,filters etc.

Before you go buy a excavator try all the brands unless you want to pay the extra money for Cat which doesn't last any longer than the rest.

As for Scag I don't think you guys bite more off than you can chew your already have experience in the landscaping biz. The 312 really isn't a big machine yes its a step up from the mini. You just think of it as a mini on steriods the 312 would be far easier to run. I hope it works out for you and your dad its what you wanted to get into and if you get enough work to make the payments you should be fine.

texas
05-03-2006, 09:06 AM
ive run backhoes and tractors on the family rice farm all my life. ive used a similar (16 ton) excavator to clean our canals out too. (small canals they were.)

Scag48
05-03-2006, 03:44 PM
GR, we have zero payments for 3 years. We will have cleared twice the amount of the cost of the machine by the time we owe any money on it. That's the beauty of our finance option.

As for dealers being far away, if I need parts, why wait to get them shipped? Every day a machine is down, that costs thousands, so I guess you don't understand what it costs to have a machine that isn't running because you couldn't get parts for 3-4 days.

Oh yeah, Cat parts aren't any more expensive than Deere or anyone else. They're not cheaper, but they aren't any more expensive.

Scag48
05-03-2006, 04:02 PM
Stupid time edit limit ran out...

Basically, for us we can't have our machine down. At this point, we're new to the excavation business and our machine(s) have to perform day in and day out. How would it make us look if our machine was down for 3 days while we were waiting for parts? It would make us look like idiots. Now, the likelihood of having a new machine break down are slim, but bear with me. Aside from losing 3 days of revenue while the machine is down, you've lost some repsect with your customer and you might have lost another pending job because someone got tired of waiting. Plus, the stress of knowing you're not getting anything done is enough to drive a guy crazy. That's why we buy from Cat, I make one call and it's done. No messing around waiting for parts, I get what I need, when I need it.

Gravel Rat
05-03-2006, 04:10 PM
Having stuff shipped is just something you have to deal with usually for us its over night no big deal. The Cat dealer for us is 5 hours away just like the Deere Dealer not a problem.

You never let a machine go so bad that you need parts right now. When you do morning inspections on the machine you should beable to spot a problem before it becomes a major. Excavation contractors operating in this area have done it for the last 40 years and more.

When you run one machine long enough you will beable to spot-smell or hear a problem.

If you have a machine down for 3-4 days then its from lack of preventative maintenance. If you knew you had a part that needs replacing you should have ordered that part atleast 2 weeks ago so you would have in stock at your shop

I was talking to one of the contractors he said the only benefit to Cat is they will finance anybody like you have there zero payments for 3 years. But after 3 years the payments or the buy out on that machine is going to be pretty pricey. Its like leasing a truck you never win you eventually pay more than the machine is worth. You and you dad should be putting away atleast 1000 dollars a month for when it comes time to pay for that machine you have enough money to pay most of it.

Scag48
05-03-2006, 04:21 PM
It's not gonna be a problem, we're on a job right now that will cover 1/3 the cost of the machine. We don't want to be making the payments after the 3 years, we'll buy the machine outright. Like you said, after the 3 years, it's like a lease, you get screwed so we're gonna pay cash.

Gravel Rat
05-03-2006, 04:23 PM
You should be also collecting a wage from it too so subtract minimum 18 dollars per hour for you operating the excavator.

Scag48
05-03-2006, 04:41 PM
I'm on the payroll, so I get paid because I'm working for my dad.