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View Full Version : sprinkler heads in beds?


bobbygedd
05-07-2006, 12:14 AM
we are doing a sod job, and some minor bed work (adding boulders, stone, etc) there are established plants there already. the home owner is having a sprinkler system installed. my advice was to just have enough heads to water the lawn, i don't want any in the beds, or any that shoot water into the beds. the sprinkler installer disagreed with me, saying the beds /plants should be watered at the same time as the lawn. who is right?

lawn_pro
05-07-2006, 12:15 AM
depends on what the customer wants.....

sheshovel
05-07-2006, 12:17 AM
You are right..the beds should be on drip and will take alot less watering than the lawn water.They should be on seperate zones.

MMLawn
05-07-2006, 12:22 AM
I'm sure that the heads in the beds would be misters not regular heads, so yes the sprinkler guy is right as rain.

Killswitch
05-07-2006, 12:28 AM
I'm all for bed irrigation. But I have one client who has a zillion pop up mistys at the edges of the beds and I have taken several out with the mower...none this year yet.

Plus most people dont realize that those mistys really put out the water for the most part depending on what nozzles are being used but stock nozzles lay it down and people consistently time them like they would a rotary and over water.

imho.

sheshovel
05-07-2006, 01:11 AM
Yea except shrubs and plants should be watered at the root zone if possible..the less moisture sprayed onto the leaves the better.

Mr. Vern
05-07-2006, 01:25 AM
Yea except shrubs and plants should be watered at the root zone if possible..the less moisture sprayed onto the leaves the better.

What't the reasoning behind this statement?

mike lane lawn care
05-07-2006, 01:32 AM
i thought you were the self proclaimed "king of the lawn"

Evergreenpros
05-07-2006, 01:37 AM
You have to remember that shrubs with root systems 3-5 feet below ground need to be misted for 10 minutes every day. No wait, I'm not selling sprinkler systems, that doesn't make any sense.

Living in Western Washington I have never witnessed any shrub in any bed that has ever been stressed due to lack of water. I have however sprayed billions of weeds in beds that get misted every day with these hairbrained sprinkler systems people get here.

Don't forget, in addition to the heads in the beds the landscaper sells them, you have to remember the plastic weed blocker they installed under the mulch. So how again can water being misted at ground level for less than 5 hours get to a root system 3-5 feet below ground? Through the plastic barrier? Through the mulch? It can't!

Maybe in the desert it would be wise to have a drip system when trying to grow plants that shouldn't even be planted there but for the most part they are for show and $$ for the installer.

bobbygedd
05-07-2006, 08:19 AM
i personally would like to see shrubbery hand watered. established plants almost never need to be watered. shooting water into the beds makes weeds, weeds, and more weeds

lawnman_scott
05-07-2006, 09:08 AM
i personally would like to see shrubbery hand watered. established plants almost never need to be watered. shooting water into the beds makes weeds, weeds, and more weedsI agree. But thats why it could be on its own zone for just a few minutes. Because everyone knows the homeowner will rarly water the plants as needed. And if it gets to where it doesnt need any irrigation then the zone can be shut off until its needed again.

Wet_Boots
05-07-2006, 09:21 AM
I've seen the ancient systems that watered everything at once, from impact heads, sometimes mounted as high as ten feet above ground. The landscapes looked flawless, so the watering-everything-at-once philosophy seemed to work. I happen to like tossing water into a bed from the lawn, because it is possible to take care of flowers planted on the borders, which sometimes can't easily be reached from in-bed sprays, because the established shrubbery overhangs the flowers. Also, the in-lawn heads will not present an elevation problem when the PVB gets located (no DCs here)

DanaMac
05-07-2006, 09:25 AM
i personally would like to see shrubbery hand watered. established plants almost never need to be watered. shooting water into the beds makes weeds, weeds, and more weeds

Bob, you live in a humid climate, with plenty of rain near sea level. Try 6500' elevation of a semi-arid desert climate. With only 15"-16" of annual precipitation. In a good year.

Dirty Water
05-07-2006, 01:07 PM
You have to remember that shrubs with root systems 3-5 feet below ground need to be misted for 10 minutes every day. No wait, I'm not selling sprinkler systems, that doesn't make any sense.

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm? Where in WA you do live? My area is in the rainshadow of the olympics, so we have much less rain than the King County area.


Living in Western Washington I have never witnessed any shrub in any bed that has ever been stressed due to lack of water. I have however sprayed billions of weeds in beds that get misted every day with these hairbrained sprinkler systems people get here.


I've seen hundreds and hundreds. Just for the record I attempt to steer people away from mist heads in beds, I prefer drip, which only waters the root zone, is more effiecent and keeps down weeds. However, some people have to see the sprinklers, so I still do a bit of sprayheads in beds.


Don't forget, in addition to the heads in the beds the landscaper sells them, you have to remember the plastic weed blocker they installed under the mulch. So how again can water being misted at ground level for less than 5 hours get to a root system 3-5 feet below ground? Through the plastic barrier? Through the mulch? It can't!

You are so clueless, First off, Weed barrier is very pourous, its not plastic. Second, any landscaper that puts down weed barrier instead off a nice thick layer of mulch is a amatuer at best.


Maybe in the desert it would be wise to have a drip system when trying to grow plants that shouldn't even be planted there but for the most part they are for show and $$ for the installer.

Another dumb statement. Most landscapers out here will not warranty their plantings unless drip irrigation has been installed. When a plant is just getting established it needs regular watering, even in WA. I've seen many new plantings die from lack of irrigation. Last summer in my area we had less than 4 inches of rain from june to august.

Hank Reardon
05-08-2006, 12:22 AM
We rarely install anything but spray heads in the beds. Front and back load 1812's in the perimeter and copper risers in the field. Primarily with either Weathermatic or MP nozzles (except the odd VAN on the weird stuff or bubbler in a pot). Love the brass!

The beds we install are always mulched in and cultivated and groomed regularly to eliminate weeds. These are all high-end properties with many hours of maintenance available (which a separate crew handles). They are also much more durable.

I'm not sold on the arguement to use drip over spray. I've never seen it rain only at the root zone...:drinkup:

jerryrwm
05-08-2006, 06:32 AM
We rarely install anything but spray heads in the beds. Front and back load 1812's in the perimeter and copper risers in the field. Primarily with either Weathermatic or MP nozzles (except the odd VAN on the weird stuff or bubbler in a pot). Love the brass!

The beds we install are always mulched in and cultivated and groomed regularly to eliminate weeds. These are all high-end properties with many hours of maintenance available (which a separate crew handles). They are also much more durable.

I'm not sold on the arguement to use drip over spray. I've never seen it rain only at the root zone...:drinkup:


Well said. Drip has it's applications, but it is not the only thing for landscape irrigation. Never has been and never will be. Biggest problem is that most people don't or won't take care of the drip to make sure it works continually. If drip irrigation is the answer to a landscape then why isn't it used on turf on a regular basis?

And I would be willing to bet that there are weeds in those planting areas that have drip irrigation installed also. probably just as many if they are not regularly maintained.

bumper
05-09-2006, 09:32 AM
A regular maintenance contract after a landscape install sovles the problem of weeds and dead plant material, that is covered in the initial meeting. Most folks don't want the headache. And here....lawn and beds are always on different zones and the beds are generally spray heads unless the customer wants unique plant material installed requiring less watering then the usual shrubs or annuals.

PurpHaze
05-10-2006, 08:29 AM
I'm not sold on the arguement to use drip over spray. I've never seen it rain only at the root zone...:drinkup:

Obviously you've never been involved with xerigation principles then. :drinkup:

Hank Reardon
05-10-2006, 08:38 AM
Obviously you've never been involved with xerigation principles then. :drinkup:

Ooops, forgot about the arid climes of the rest of the counrty. I lived in Nevada for 20 years so unfortunately, I've had the opportunity to see the likes of that. "OK, for the front lawn we'd like this color of rock and for the back..." I do not miss the heat at all.

jerryrwm
05-10-2006, 09:50 PM
Obviously you've never been involved with xerigation principles then. :drinkup:

Xerigation not necessarily mean drip irrigation. It deals with the whole spectrum of plant type (native type - low water requirement) proper soil prep, using more plant material than turf, and adapting the irrigation system to precisely apply the water to the plants in the correct amount and at the proper time, eventually reducing the irrigation water as the plant becomes established and matures. This can be done with spray heads, Sheshovel's shrubblers, as well as point source drip irrigations or a combination of the three. Also using soil moisture sensors, rain switches, and more recently, weather stations,are all part of a Xerigation program as well as historical weather data such as ET rates, etc.

And again, while drip irrigation applies water at or near the root zone, rain still waters the entire area.

Hank Reardon
05-10-2006, 11:49 PM
Also using soil moisture sensors, rain switches, and more recently, weather stations,are all part of a Xerigation program as well as historical weather data such as ET rates, etc.

Are you using Rain Master controllers? We have about 8 in the area now with our first weather station install coming soon. Getting a little excited as besides the contoller data, I will be able to download the weather information at my house from the unit on the clients property. Very cool technology out there.

How accurate are the soil moisture sensors? Have you done anything with transevaporation (sp?) sensors?

sheshovel
05-11-2006, 01:35 AM
Water sprayed on leaves of plants can more readily contribute fungal and bacterial disease among the plants.Especially roses.

Hank Reardon
05-11-2006, 08:02 AM
Water sprayed on leaves of plants can more readily contribute fungal and bacterial disease among the plants.Especially roses.

Other than applying at night, how can spraying plant material be any different than rain?

PurpHaze
05-11-2006, 08:09 AM
Other than applying at night, how can spraying plant material be any different than rain?

Uh... more reliable??? :dancing:

PurpHaze
05-11-2006, 08:11 AM
How accurate are the soil moisture sensors?

I hope this technology (potentiometers) is better than it used to be. The ones I've seen in the past were absolute junk and very unreliable.

DanaMac
05-11-2006, 08:22 AM
If we as people get rained on, but drank no water, would we still live? No. Plants could very well be the same by not getting water to the roots where they actually take in the water. Granted though, water will run off the leaves and hit the ground, getting absorbed by the roots. I'm no plant expert, but many people tell me water directly on rose bushes gives the leaves dark spots and looks ugly.

Hank Reardon
05-11-2006, 11:55 PM
If we as people get rained on, but drank no water, would we still live? No. Plants could very well be the same by not getting water to the roots where they actually take in the water. Granted though, water will run off the leaves and hit the ground, getting absorbed by the roots. I'm no plant expert, but many people tell me water directly on rose bushes gives the leaves dark spots and looks ugly.

The dark spots are a fungus called rust. It's everywhere here and can affect many plant varieties besides roses.

Hank Reardon
05-11-2006, 11:57 PM
Uh... more reliable??? :dancing:

Very true!

Besides, spraying "reliably" washes the leaves of dust allowing better uptake of nutrients.

PurpHaze
05-14-2006, 01:01 PM
As someone has already stated some plants absolutely abhor excessive (which would be irrigation instead of rain) overhead watering. Best to know your plant materials.