Per hour

[1MajorTom]

When you figure out how much per hour you make, do you figure in your drive time?

Example - You work 9:00 to 5:00 including your drive time and loading and unloading equipment. In 8 hours you make $600.00. Divide by 8 hours is $75.00. 2 people, that's $37.50 a man hour.

Or do you just figure your hours by the actual job, not including any drive times, lunch time, bathroom stops etc.

Those numbers are just examples.

[Guido]

Drive time is taking up your time too, so I would count it. It can add up to a large expense if your customers aren't in a consolidated area. When you go to the parts store, or do maintenance on the equipment, thats all hours your putting into your work too. A lot of people don't figure it like this, but I think that your time is worth $$ and you need to keep overhead prices accurate accordingly.

[65hoss]

I track it both ways. Overall day you get just that. But, if you do it by job also you learn what is happening at the sites.

[Guido]

Should have been more specific. This is NOT to replace your companies productivity tracking times or anything like that, this was to see what you as the owner/operator bring in per hour on an average day.


There is definetly a place for both. Guess we weren't on the same level, sorry for the confusion! :0

[kris]

I always add a certain bit of travel in every job and charge for it...not sure if this is what your asking... we track everything on worksheets with different codes..eg...9h is general conditions..this covers travel....loading and unloading ....talking with customers etc.

[LoneStarLawn]

We include travel time but not lunch time...

[geogunn]

this will probably start something but as a solo operator, it isn't nearly as important for me to know what I make per hour, (all things considered), as it is for me to know what to charge by the job.

that is why always charge by the job, never by the hour.

GEO

[Administrator]

geo..

Im sure you know what it takes to pay your bills.

[LoneStarLawn]

This helps to figure your hour productivity which will help in determining what goals are being reached..(et. profit margin) This is very necessary when having employees..."time is money". I think time is always related in job estimating...if it will take longer it will cost more...

[eslawns]

I keep track of all my time. BSing, repairs, sales, pricing parts and equipment, anything. I even break it down by machine. IMO, if you want to know where your money goes, keep track of where you spend it. The same is true of time. BTW, this lets me make more accurate bids on work, and project future expenses somewhat. Fewer suprises.

[turfguy33]

Most of the time, I do not include drive time since most of the jobs are really close together. The onloy time that I include driving in my bid is when I have to go out of my way to get to a property. I posted a thread late last week about driving a pretty good way for an apartment complex and a group of duplex's, now on that bid, I did include drive time, only because of the distance I had to drive. But then, I guess the way I figure up my prices, drive time is included. I try to make around $50 a hour, but it varies from $40 to $60 a hour, jsut depending on how fast I go, and little things that slow me down. And then, there's the little jobs that I sometimes get. I make almost twice as much in a days time doing 2 big jobs than I do doing 10 little jobs, simply because of drive time, loading, unloading and the common problem of stopping in at gas stations to get a snack. But then again, I only have 2 days that I mow residentials, and I make ok at it, but its not like mowing my industrial sites.

[Finecut]

If you leave your shop at 8:00am and lunch 12:30pm to 1:00pm and return to the shop at 6:30pm...how many hours have you worked? The way I figure it you were producing for 9 1/2 hours and you would divide your days total earnings by 9 1/2 hours per employee.

If you drive from your shop for 20 minutes to get to job A, and mow for 1 hour it has taken you one hour and twenty minutes to produce whatever earnings you get from that job. Someone has to pay for drive time...hopefully not you!

[jjfehr]

Yes your example is the correct way to figure earnings per hour.
I don't know exactly what you are asking but I hope this example will tell you why I figure drive time.
If you go do a bid on a property and your target per hour is $60/hr, and you find the job will take 10 minutes (without accounting for ALL time and costs) You would quote $10. But It took you 10 minutes there, 10 min. back, 10 total loading/unloading time, you now have 40 minutes for this one job. now you are not making your targeted $60/hr but rather a gross of $15/hr
This is why it is important to figure all time in your gross hourly estimates. (or at least that is why I do!)

[HOMER]

Thats assuming that you always left from point A, went to point B, did the job, came back to point A and started all over again!

What happens when you leave the house on blue street and drive across town to red street. What if your schedule changes from this week to the next?:confused:

Or is it like CNC programming where everything is figured from point 0 y and 0 x.

Too much drama............I say price the yard at what you think is acceptable for your wallet and haul a$$ to the next one when your finished. If you can pay your bills at the end of the month then you did good!:blob3: If not, get a faster truck!

[gusbuster]

Driving time is not a big factor for me. I rarely have to drive no more than 15 minutes from my house until I drop the ramp to do my first client. After that first client, maybe 3 to 5 minutes to the next client.

Tuesday's schedual, (to see why, check out this link to my page:http://www.jlclandscaping.com/lawnsite/so_many_houses.htm ) I make pretty close to $48 per man per hour:laugh: (2 of us ) but on average between 20 to 27 per man per hour. I'm only able to make that kind of money because I've been in this business for a while.
John

[lawnman_scott]

I agree with homer, keep it simple.

[slabpile]

i always add time to what ever the price is. Homer, if i was acrocc town i probly would not be doing that job in the same day. Plan your day so you cna do several things in the same area then all that travel time you bid on is easy money.

[HOMER]

Across town where I'm at is only a 5 minute drive!:D

The only time I would really include drive time is when I went out of town. You have to get to work in order to work, thats a given. Some are closer than others and then some may take more time. To me it's a wash and part of the entire equation. All you can do is plan the route as efficiently as possible, which I have, and bodda bing, bodda boom, your there before you even got the sweat wiped off your nose! Thats when you hear the cash register sound in your head:blob3: !

I mean really now................do you get so detailed that you say, "OK, it's 11:47am, time to stop in the quicky to go and take my morning dump, ha ha , Mr. Jones doesn't even realize he's paying for me to do this"!

I don't think so, how you gonna charge for a stinky?

Then again some folks can fart on you and make money.........go figure!

[kutnkru]

Jodi, We always factor in stud time to calculate our gross profits.

START
TRAVEL
UNLOAD
DUMP

Our clock ticks from the time the first piece of equipment is picked up to be loaded first thing in the morning until the last piece of equipment is unloaded that night.

Kris

[geogunn]

different operations need different ways to account for time.

mine and homer's seems to be about the same. I know when I'm gettin' it and I know when I'm slouching. and slouching don't get it for me.

now the drought...that's a different story. the drought has hit the wallet already. this week I didn't even cut my own lawn.

GEO

[thelawnguy]

"Only" 5 minutes drive time, times 12 stops, equals an hour a day, keeping it simple if you work a 10 hour day there goes 10 per cent of your time doing nothing.

I think its important to at least be aware of how much time you spend driving, it adds up.

Take your total earnings, have someone steal ten per cent of them. Mad, right? Well by driving and not mowing someone has "stolen" money from your pocket so instead of 50/hr you really made 45.

[jaclawn]

I think that if many of the small operators added ALL the time up that they spend on their business, then divided by their annual income, they would be very surprised.

Think of all the time that you spend running for parts, estimates, going to the bank, post office, talking on the phone, maintaining and repairing equipment, attend continuing education, shopping for equipment, loading and unloading...

There are a lot of non billable hours involved with any business.

[The_Outlaw]

I agree with jaclawn, there are a lot of unbillable hours associated with any business... The good thing is, that if you're doing what you like to do, this is a LOT more bearable! I realize that nobody wants to work for peanuts, well anyone with any shred of intelligence.
BUT, you do have to keep in mind what the market will bear. If you start charging $75-100 per hour, and then padding the number of hours for the job (Customers only see the actual time you spend at their location), you're probably gonna loose customers. If not, tell me where you live, I want in on the action!:)

[TGCummings]

I think the reason we charge $40/hour for our work (or $30 or $60 or whatever you charge where you are) is to make up for that extra time. If I wanted to make $40/hour for all the time I spend on this business, cutting or not, then I would have to charge...

Wooo... will anyone pay me that? ;)

-TGC

[Guido]

I didn't mean to directly figure in the drive time to normal close accounts, but to average all that drive time out over a week or month and add it into your overhead costs.

[jjfehr]

--TO ALL OF THOSE THAT DON'T ACCOUNT FOR DRIVE TIME--

It has been said over and over that mowing isn't a science, well running a business is!
Go buy yourself a cheap stop watch and put it around your neck for one day!
Start the watch the second that you step out of your front door in the morning and stop it when you start your first piece of equip. at the first account and stop in when you shut the engine down. Do this all day long (on a residential day) and I think you will be surprised at how many unbillable hours you accumulate in one day! The reason I suggest accounting for every movement in one days work is so you know exactly where your unbillable hours have gone in a day! If you don't how are you going to lessen the unbillable hours to make room for those profitable, billable hours.
Homer, if you make your stinky everyday while working, 5 days per week that is at least one extra billable hour per week if you stop this habit, and take care of your stinky business, before you go out and work your lawn business! While you are working, you have to Park the truck, walk in, shut the door do your thing,flush the toilet, (oops, it didn't go down) flush the toilet again, get back in your truck, wait at the stop light/sign because you have to get back on the road! All of this time adds up, and costs you time and money:o :o

[slabpile]

hey hommer for me it is more like cross country! half of my places are 30-40 min away. that is an hour there and back. some how that has to be billable time. that was before. now i work for a school district so not as big a deal.

[Three Seasons]

You Guys are rite you have to figure in drive time, but what about time spent in the shop at home servicing mowers, sharpening blades, changing oil, fixing tires, etc. today it rained all day so i spent 6 hrs. doing service work. anybody ever think about that?
Just my opinion!

[jjfehr]

the idea that I was trying to convey is that in order to fine tune your operation you need to account for every second in a day as well as every penny. Your time is just like your money, you need to know where every second was spent in order to determine if you are spending that time in the most efficient manner!

[slabpile]

ever second in the day and then some. you have to pay for when it breaks down (not much i hope), and maintaince and such

[kutnkru]

And you will have accounted for your times in the am plus those times spent at the shop for routine maintenance.

Hope this helps you out with your "goes-intas" Three Seasons. :)

Kris

[HOMER]

Why I never!:o

I take care of business before I leave in the morning.

The enclosed trailer keeps me from making the pit stops!

I like to BS too much during the day, if I see somebody I know I talk! I couldn't be rude and tell them.............gotta go, clocks ticking away. Maybe I should, might save me some grief.

Some folks are just gonna pay better/more attention to the details, some of us were hammmered about time for years..............I quit that to live a little more stress free life. It's my money to lose so if I choose to run my mouth at a convenience store with a buddy then I have to eat that loss of production.

Different strokes for different folks.

Now, if I had a crew and I saw them BS'ing that would be completely different...............know what I mean?:angry:

[kutnkru]

See thats the trouble with Corporate America today!!!:(

Its always "Do As I Say - Not As I Do", but none of you BIGG WIGGS are willing to set the right example for your employees to follow!!!:angry:

LOL
Kris:angel:

[CMerLand]

Heres some numbers that might blow your mind. In most cases times are derived from a two or three man crew and not but are all shown in man hours. And these are employees times sooo this is money paid out in wages.

Changeing blades 108.65 man hours

Loading equipment 142.69 man hours

Dumping the truck 89.60 man hours

Stopping for gas 34.59 hours (doesnt include the times we actually cut the gas station)

These are the actual times spent last year by our crews. Yea those hours add up but knowing how to track and recoup those costs is part of knowing your business. Good software will track and report all this information so the real cost of business is much more accurate.

CMerLand

[1MajorTom]

Wow, lots of responses on this thread.

The reason I asked this question was because there is always talk on man hours, and I was just curious to see how people calculated their time.

Matt is like a stopwatch. There basically isn't time to breathe from the minute we start our day until we finally return home.

I always tell him I am going to start telling people on lawnsite on how bad he treats me, but he doesn't care what I say. ;)

Last month, he let me go to the bathroom two times all month. Every minute is go, go, go. No lunch all last month. None, zilch, nothing. Last year I was packing our lunch, but having to eat so fast isn't enjoyable anyways, so why bother.

This month is getting a little better. Bathroom breaks, I think I have had about 7 this month. We have went thru the drive-thru at Subway a few times too.

We start our day at exactly the same time every morning. 8:50am. From that minute on the time begins ticking.

Today after an hour and ten minutes of work, we were at $90.00. One hour later our average dropped. "Come on, let's go, pick up the pace. We have to move. Get the blower, blow that driveway! Let's go. We gotta get the average back up!" I hear this all day long. Think I'm kidding? Definitely not. I am dead serious. I have threatened him many times that I will not continue much longer with this, if he keeps behaving like this. His response, "You want money in the winter to get your nails done, to get your hair done, you want to go on vacation this winter, then we have to make every bit of money we can now."

We work at breakneck speeds ALL day long. And I just had to see how fast everyone else was moving, and if everyone was counting their drive time.

Today we did 19 yards. There was 28 on the list to do today to catch up from the rain. We are still behind. Tomorrow will be a rough one.


Kris --- Stud Time, I like that. Yep, that's how we do it.

[65hoss]

Jodi, that's why men complain about traveling with women. Always stopping for bathroom breaks. :p

Sounds like me and Matt need to meet. This is the way I will be tomorrow. We have around 30 to do, problem is it started raining tonight. :angry:

Eric

[gusbuster]

Originally posted by 1MajorTom

His response, "You want money in the winter to get your nails done, to get your hair done, you want to go on vacation this winter, then we have to make every bit of money we can now."
Jodi
That's why I like the San Francisco Bay Area so much. We work all year round. We don't have to make all our money from spring thru fall. Not knocking it, but just glad I don't have to work that way.
I do have to work like a son of a gun to pay for vacations and new car for the wife April thru July. That's when I do most of my sod and sprinkler jobs. The maintenance route pays the basic bills. This year is going to be tough. Bringing my sister in-law, 2 nephews and 2 nieces from Virginia while my brother in-law is doing his 6 months of sea duty. Do I have to tell you how much places like Disneyland, Sea World ect.. is going to cost me.
As for bathroom breaks, sue Matt for a tow behind porta-potty, just kidding.
John

[David Gretzmier]

ok. so I'm mowing a 2 acre lawn, failry open, it pays 85. we "do" the lawn in 25 minutes with helper. it is one of several in a neighbor hood we do. when we knock out six of them in 3 hours, that is 510 in 3 hours, or 170 per hour, or 85 per man. the Kicker? travel and sharpen time, food/lunch time, replace string time, refuel blower time, get gas time, water break time, etc. I dream of a world where mowing is constant, but in the real world, you do the best you can.
I have read that many of you shoot for 30-40 per hour, yet most seem to be running 60-72"cut mowers, which should get you at least 3maybe 4 acres an hour. 10 years ago I was pricing at 40 bucks an acre based on a rider that did approx. one acre an hour. I am still at 40 per acre, and I win contracts at that price. why am I making close to 60-80 average per man hour on mowing? the mowing equipment does 2-3 times as much, the weed trimmer a little more ( more power, less weight), the blower a little more ( same) . the down time is constant. minimize downtime, maximize mower size. make more.
A buddy of mine that does irrigation picked up an 80 acre job ( not kidding) on a job he put in a zone for. He asked me, I told him 40 per acre, Yep he got it and got them to pre pay him for two mowings, 3 year contract, onsite storage ( outside) he does it twice monthly for 10 months out of the year. ), he financed a Kubota 90 horse tractor with cab/air and a 28 foot finish mower. he trims with a $5000 60" cut dixie and echo 2400. his payments were 1500 month for 2 years. AND HE DOES IT IN A DAY. That is 300-400 per hour, but only 20 hours a month, 10 months out of the year. He sharpens every "mow"
This was about 2 years ago, everything is paid off, and the tractor only has about 400 hours on it. nothing has broken, and he buys gas, blades, and changes oil. I hate him. he could literally live off 2 days a month. and I told him I wasn't interested and he was crazy to bid on it. I was thinking about acres per hour w/ my grasshopper, and to make the big bucks, get the HUGE jobs, BIG eqipment, and stay on the job and don't drive around. Dave g

[Stonewall]

David,

Let's see some pics of his set up! How 'bout those 28 foot stripes?

[David Gretzmier]

I don't have a digital camera, but it actually looks pretty good in the summer. it is one of those huge golf course finish mowers, and they all float. he takes pretty good care of that place. I see it at least once a week. Dave g