How many sharpenings?

[Alan]

OK,, got a major Bozo here who says he can see the difference after he sharpens blades (60" Lazer Z) twice, so he tosses them out and gets new ones. This is the same dweeb who quit running doubles because the grass packs under the deck too much. This is a dry year and it bothered,, after he ran them all last summer, when it was wet and sticky all the time. And he insists on keeping blades in sets,, says he can see the difference if he mixes sets. Am I wrong in thinking he is somewhere from around Alpha Ceti 5 or something?

[jeffyr]

Hey.....don't call me a major bozo:mad: just kidding.



See if you can get his "throw away blades" after 2 sharpenings and when you get a bunch sell em on ebay !

Maybe he is screwing up the angle badly when he is sharpening them and by the second time his blade face is more like a 90 degree wall then a 30 degree bevel ?

[Mr.Ziffel]

Maybe he's just particular! If he were closer to me, I'd offer to buy his twice sharpened blades for a buck apiece and get a few more cuts out of them [quite a few!] There's just no telling about some folks though. My dealer thinks I'm crazy because I've got 6 sets of blades for my 60" LazerZ and put sharp ones on every 4 to 6 hours--Of course he charges $7 to sharpen one blade, which is about what I paid for them so he'd be glad to sharpen them for me except I've just about paid off the RBG at that rate and gotten a better cut to boot!

I have tried different blade configurations to see what will help reduce buildup under my deck when mowing wet [which is most of the time even in the so-called drought we're supposedly having--yeah, tell my rain gauge that]. I've tried the Exmark brand blades in mulching, low lift, high lift and Bahia, the Gator high lift and the Chopper high lift. The high lifts do pack a bit more grass under the deck but they do a much better job of throwing the clippings. I don't use doubles much when wet as it seems the high lifts alone do a better job when side discharging wet grass. Every double combination I've used on wet grass seems to reduce the clippings to mush which then pack under the deck only to fall out along the way. The doubles do work excellent in drier conditions though but not that much better than singles. I like the extra long 9inch cutting edge on the Chopper high lift and and low lift Exmark blades, especially on wet grass.

The point of all this is that I've had to experiment with my mower to find what works best under what conditions and if only two sharpenings works for him, so be it--I'd just like to pick up his discards for whenever mine eventually wear out! WillM.

[Barkleymut]

Don't worry Alan your not crazy he is.

[TLS]

Not 2 sharpenings, but if the tip is rounded back towards the lift wing, then the blade doesn't cut nearly as well. The tip is what cuts, and you need a 90 degree angle here, not rounded off. You have to measure a blade from blade tip to blade tip, any shorter causes the cut to diminish. My Lazer seems to keep blades noticabally sharper than my Dixie or JD's. I guess its the anitscalp rollers preventing it from cutting dirt/rocks. I'm a stickler for sharp, perfect blades, but even I'd buy this guys blades too!

[Fallguy]

it actually is the right thing to do to scrap blades after about 2 sharpenings - however that depends on the blades them selves - also - it takes a heck of a whack to destroy a blade or gouge it to the point of useless - if you have noticed ,on three blade mowers its always one blade wearing faster than the other two - my 52 and my 36 use the same sise blades except there is one more on the 52, duh ,- but this is what i do - i keep the best two from each used set of 3 that i take off my 52 - sharpen them then use them for my 36 - any blade that i ever seen has a wear indicator - but its safer to scrap them before they get to that point - also - i have found that mulching blades work your mower harder - i would stick to the factory blades that it came with - also - do not grind your blades - a file works much better - you just have to get you a big industrial sise file like the ones that electric motor companys use on shafts of motors they are rebuilding then mount you a good vise on a sturdy table and put your back into it - im also a firm believer that the sharper the blade the better it is and you WILL be able to tell the difference in that.:rolleyes:

[SMB]

We are running double regular lift blades, and it keeps the deck pretty clean (a lot better than Gators/reg. lift combo.) And it also does much better in the wet!

[David Gretzmier]

If you spend one hour sharpening blades, rather than just 15 switching out new for old, could you have made 50 bucks mowing in that 45 minutes? with blades running about 10 bucks apiece online for gators and 6-7 for straights, If you can in fact mow to replace the time grinding AND get a superior cut, why not do it? Some thing else I've noticed- The first time I use new blades, they last 3-4 days. after the first sharpening, it is sharpen every day or every other. maybe new blades all the time ain't a bad deal if you can sell the dull ones to your friends for half price!!! dave g :cool:

[Fallguy]

i have noticed that my blades stay sharper when i have a filed edge on them - and i dont know how you guys sharpen but between myself and a giant file and a pair of 23in biceps it takes me a average of 20 to 30 minutes to sharpen a set of blades for my 52in snapper..also a set of razor sharp filed blades cut grass 100x better than the edge you get on a brand new blade - course everyone has their own oppinion but it just appears to me to give a way more level looking cut - also being a fitness buff its some pretty good exercise for the little time it takes.:blob3:

[Mr.Ziffel]

Welcome to LawnSite Fallguy, but now you've got me scratching my head. How does a blade know if it was sharpened with a file ["20 to 30 minutes to sharpen a set"] or if it was sharpened with a RBG [rotary blade grinder] which takes 5 to 10 minutes a set after the initial sharpening? So long as the blade was not overheated, which is evident by a bluish/black tint at the hot spot, the end result of a smooth, 27 to 30 degree bevel angle is all that counts. Even if you do overheat the blade on the grinder, all you have to do is cool it down and grind the soft spot out and you're good to go. I do use a file on the back [flat] side of the blade to level it out, but if the blade is really nicked badly, I'll put it on the grinder or take an angle grinder to it before I grind a new bevel. Either way, using just a file would probably be good for my forearms and biceps, but I just don't have enough time! I'm acutally getting a pretty good workout emptying my UltraVac bags since the grass is growing at least an inch a day here.

David, it takes just as long to put on a brand new set of blades as it does a sharp set so the only time savings would be in not sharpening the blade, but as I'm sure you've noticed new blades are not sharp out of the box and need to be sharpened anyway so there is actually no time saving by using all new blades. If you don't use a RBG or other brand dedicated blade grinder, you owe it to yourself to try one out. If you're using new blades right out of the box you're not using sharp blades! There is definitely a difference in a correctly ground blade and one right out of the box with mill marks and a coat of paint on it. You really ought to track someone in your area down and get them to demo a dedicated grinder for you; it'll open your eyes. Good luck, Will M

[Fallguy]

when my blades are have bad divits in them i scrap them - if i cant get them out of my blade with a file after say 100 pushes and pulls with my B/A nicholson file then i give them to my friend who makes knives out of them - im not big on grinders as microscopic dust particles will become airborn and cause respitory damage and i hate respirators - im 29 in exellent health - im not a 48 years old and looking for the easy way out. but thanks for the input. i havent used a grinder since i used to sharpen my moms dinner knives on the back of our can opener:p LOL

[Atlantic Lawn]

If the blade only cuts well through two sharpenings I would think the angle on the edge is incooreect , as sugested in an earlier post. Blades last longer when cared for properly.

[TLS]

Fallguy,

You must really have time to kill if you are using a hand file to sharpen blades. I have heard of a lot of other methods that I consider to take longer and not give good results, but BY HAND??? Come on, its 2001 not 1938. My Brandelien Machine Fireball Jr has a dust collector fittings on both sides to hook up my shopvac. NO DUST. And it only takes about 5 front and back motions per blade side to touch up. I think the slight hollow grind produces a better cut than a straight bevel anyway. If your a homeowner who only sharpens once or twice a year, then, yes do it by hand. But if you are sharpening once a week or more, go with a dedicated grinder, and then do some curls to get those arms bigger.

[EROSS17]

I think a lot of you guys are making this more difficult than it actually is. Who cares how you sharpen the blades, as long as they're sharp. 2 sharpenings then throw them away??? That guy is nuts! I'd go broke if I did that. And another thing about balancing, I think thats a bunch of bull#@&*, I've never balanced a blade once, and the lawns I do look flawless. There is no vibration or anything like that.

[Eric ELM]

Eross17, do you balance your tires? I know they do at the factory? Those tires are going about 50 to 60 MPH on an average at the most and this is on a trip. The blades on my Choppers run 19,000 ft. per minute which is 216 Miles Per Hour which is 4 times faster than the tires you ride on. If balancing tires is important, balancing blades is 4 times more important. Blades can be and are out of balance when new, just like a tire is. One member posted he has found the hole 1" off center. How smooth would that blade be. :(

I know I have found new blades out of balance, but not that bad.

Back to the original question, I got 5 new sets of blades last spring and I haven't purchased any since and probably won't this season either, which means I get lots of sharpenings out of them.

[oneEXMARKfan]

Very true Eric!

[EROSS17]

Eric, of course I balance my tires on my vehicles, if I don't I can feel the vibration. All I'm saying is that I have never balanced a blade because there was never a need to. I get a great cut, no vibration, never went through spindle bearings. As for the guy that found the center hole 1" off center, that's pretty extreme. I'm sure I would have felt a vibration then.

[sheppard]

Somebody correct me if I need it but sharpening blades seems to be a bit elementary: I have two JD 655s. We sharpen the blades once a week with a hand held grinder. We put the blades in a vice grip. It takes about 15 seconds for each side. Am I missing something? We can do both mowers in about 20 minutes tops.

Cordially,
Sheppard

[Eric ELM]

Sheppard, Yes, blade sharpening is very elimentary, but some still do not know how to do it and some don't do it often enough. From what others in Florida have said, they have to change blades twice a day from all the sand that dulls them. I would think after a weeks use that it would take longer than 15 seconds to sharpen a blade since it would have to be very dull, unless you don't mow much grass. I see you have been doing this for a year, maybe you don't have that many customers yet, but even when I didn't have many customers, I still put on sharp blades daily.

We still change blades daily to get the best cut and to keep the grass the greenest possible. There is a big difference in the way grass looks when cut weekly with a sharp blade verses a dull blade. Try it, you will be surprised.

[Fine Lines Lawn]

My big blade sharpener isn't getting much use since I got a hand grinder this spring.

[Joe W.]

Outside of a dedicated bench grinder, whats the best method of sharpning blades?

[Eric ELM]

Before I got my RBG, I used hand held grinders and put the blade in a vise in the pipe jaws to hold it flat both ways. I feel that is second best way.

[EROSS17]

Hand held grinder is a whole lot cheaper than the others.

[Eric ELM]

Hand held grinder is a whole lot cheaper than the others.
I agree, so is a MTD 21" cheaper than a ZTR, but which would you rather use?

I have a Milwaukee 9" hand held grinder that I used for blades and it was not cheap. It cost almost half of what the RBG did.

This blade sharpening is like everything else. What ever works for you is the best way to do it.

[Fallguy]

jesus - you know what im thinking ?- if you put us all into a room of people who cut grass professionaly - then took out the ones that dont know $%*@ about it - i'm thinking it would come out to about enough to count on one hand - but no i dont have alot of idle time and i dont log onto here to get arguments started - i tell tried and true facts of what i do to get the best results to help people out - and another thing - im not a scrub that does things the fast way so it allows me more time to lowball - im the one you will see in the yards of $500,000 to $6,000,000 homes with zero mistakes - I cut grass flawlessly and if God cut grass he'd work for me because he would want to be known as the best. because i sharpen blades with a file doesnt mean i like the hard way - its because i take that ammount of pride in my work - thats how i got into the most expensive neighborhoods in my area, and its why every nursery around here gives out my card when people ask " who's hands do i put my lawn into?":D

[Fallguy]

for those of you that dont balance your blade - you might not be able to feel it because your bearings are in good shape - but it will catch up to them - of course - if you dont balance your blades then you probably dont grease your equipment or change your air filter either - in which that case - you have bigger problems on the way:eek:

[GreenQuest Lawn]

to the original question, I have 2 sets of blades and this is my second year on them blades.

I too change my blades every day. & have an RBG.

hey fallguy
How about posting some pics in the Stripes 2001 post. I would be interested in seeing some.

[Fallguy]

when i get some time ill scan some pics and post them - untill then - heres to everybody getting their fill of yards this season - good luck to you all:blob3:

[roscioli]

To the guys about balancing blades, i am very very new to this business, but i assume balancing blades is the same as balancing tires, or having the engine in your truck properly balanced. In a truck (or any other engine really), if your engine is out of balance (from wear or from problems with your harmonic balancer), it totally kills your engine. The slightest imbalance causes a huge wobble (not noticable to you because it is moving so fast other vibrations will overtake it) in your engine, throwing your crank out of whack, ruining seals, etc.. So, if it is the same in mowers, i would say balance, or your mower wont last you as long as it should. Just my .02