PDA

View Full Version : Aprons


Branching Out
05-15-2006, 09:09 PM
I was wondering what you guys and gals are doing when you install aprons in existing driveways? Are you cementing in the edge stones and then setting the field in a sand bed, and tamping them in? Or, are you using an edge restraint system in aprons like you would on a patio or driveway? Do any of you cement the field in too?

Any and all ideas appreciated. I like to see what others are doing. At this time we mortar edges set the field in sand and tamp.

Branching Out

DVS Hardscaper
05-15-2006, 10:22 PM
I was wondering what you guys and gals are doing when you install aprons in existing driveways? are you using a restraint system in aprons?

Any and all ideas appreciated. I like to see what others are doing.

Branching Out


Depends on the weather.

If its cold outside, I'll wear a t-shirt and boxer briefs under my apron, along with work boots, for safety purposes. As the weather warms up, I typically don't wear anything under my apron, as it feels too constricting in the sweltering humidity. And yes, sometimes a "restraint system" is needed :cool2:

Hope this helps

Dirty Water
05-16-2006, 12:27 AM
Depends on the weather.

If its cold outside, I'll wear a t-shirt and boxer briefs under my apron, along with work boots, for safety purposes. As the weather warms up, I typically don't wear anything under my apron, as it feels too constricting in the sweltering humidity. And yes, sometimes a "restraint system" is needed :cool2:

Hope this helps

Hehehe.

:clapping:

Branching Out
05-20-2006, 07:09 PM
Come one guys/ladies....Any help?

:cry:

Henry
05-20-2006, 07:45 PM
We install aprons the same way we install any other paver job. Plastic edge reatraint only, never concrete.

kootoomootoo
05-20-2006, 09:40 PM
I use the best restraint possible when working with aprons.

phototropic1
05-20-2006, 09:55 PM
Ok, so I'm inexperienced with paver installs. Why is the plastic edging preferred over concrete or mortar? I would assume that it would be because the concrete would be likely to crack during freeze/thaw, etc. Am I right?:confused:

Dreams To Designs
05-21-2006, 10:31 AM
Photo, yes concrete and mortar will crack, anywhere at anytime, the freeze, thaw cycle just accelerates it. For a driveway look into the edging made by Pavetech. http://www.pavetech.com/p_edge/edge.shtm It is designed for heavy duty applications and will remain intact if installed properly. Mortaring edges and using stone dust are carry overs from the masons installing flagstone patios and walks. It is not recommended for use with interlocking concrete pavers. You will have maintenance issues and comebacks will kill your profits.

Kirk

Branching Out
05-21-2006, 10:46 AM
But if you are only doing an apron on an existing driveway, do you use the edge restraint also? Or do you mortar/concrete them in. And what do you do for the field stones?

Dreams To Designs
05-21-2006, 11:01 AM
Are you putting pavers on top of the existing concrete or removing the concrete and installing a paver apron? Anytime you use pavers, you must use an edge restraint. The exception being a stoop or existing patio, where the caps, bullnose or edge pavers are adhered to the existing surface and the field is set in, sanded or poly sanded and allowed to move. If the edges of the pavers are up against an existing concrete sidewalk, curb or driveway or an asphalt driveway, edging is typically not needed.

For field stone, when it is wet laid, you are mortaring to a concrete pad so the edge restraint is unnecessary. If dry laying field stone, many manufacturers are making a plastic edge restraint that is a much lower profile and suited for the thickness of dry laid fieldstone. Many still use mortar or concrete, but it will crack.

Kirk

Branching Out
05-21-2006, 07:11 PM
Two ideas I had.

1) I will remove an existing contrete apron and install pavers. Do I mortar/concrete (wich one) the edges in, or, do I us a plastic edge restraint? Should I then lay the field into a dry pack mix and tamp in. Then sweep in surface sand?

2) I was thinking of pouring a 4"-5" 3500 psi concrete pad and then directly laying some old style bricks in to it with a a herring bone pattern, giving it a brick and mortar joint look to it. Or, should I pour a slab inderneath and comeback and mortar them in and fill the joints with mortar

Thanks for your help Kirk Any suggestions on these two ideas?

Dreams To Designs
05-22-2006, 06:41 AM
Branch, you don't need to pour concrete. You can remove the existing concrete apron, excavate to 18"-21" below finished paver height, more if it will be a heavy traffic load, compact the subsoil, lay out an underlayment geo fabric like Mirafi 500xt, install base material, 15"-18" deep, compacting in 3" lifts as you go, 1" of course concrete sand, install your pavers, laying uphill, a herringbone pattern is excellent for driveways, install a quality edge restraint, like Pavetech, on top of the base, clear the sand from the edge of the pavers, compact the pavers and fill the joints with more concrete sand or polymer sand, compacting as you go to settle the sand in. Make sure your base extends beyond the intended edge of the pavers between 6"-12". For driveways, i suggest 12" overdig.

You do not need a concrete pad for interlocking concrete pavers and you certainly don't want to mortar them in. The advantage of pavers is the fact they can float and move. All poured concrete slabs will crack. If you do not add rebar or mesh, the cracks will separate vertically and create an uneven surface. Check out the ICPI website for technical specs. That may give you a head start. Everyone has tweaked the system to suit them and the specific jobs, but the system is the same and proven. Many of the manufacturers also have installation tips on their websites. Another great source of information.

Kirk

Branching Out
05-23-2006, 07:41 AM
Thanks Kirk.

I am going to go ahead and do it that way. Except for the Pavetech edge. The customer wants Belgian block down the sides. So. that's what they get. I will go ahead with the rest if the apron the way that you mentioned. I'm going to do the base with rca in lifts, and tamp them in a bed of sand. What do you use to tamp on? Do you have a pad for your tamper, or do you tamp on geogrid or something simular? I was also wondering if you have a solution for running pavers up the curved edge of a drop down curb. Do you cut them or do they follow the slope pretty well?

Thanks again.....
Ronnie

Dreams To Designs
05-23-2006, 11:38 AM
Ronnie, the Belgian block installed with concrete will be a great edge, If you lay it on a 45 degree angle it makes snow clearing and leaf cleanup much easier and adds a distinctive look. That way the footing for the curbing and acting as edging will be very solid. What is RCA? You want a product equal to 3/4" minus stone. Some call it quarry process, others crush and run, it goes by many names. The 3/4' and smaller particles will compact well, still drain water, but should not break down like recycled concrete will under the load of traffic. 3"-4" lifts of base material over top of the Mirafi, compacted with a large plate compactor will suffice. Then screed a 1" sand setting bed for the pavers. Compact the pavers with a plate compactor with either geogrid, geofabric or a mat on the base to minimize damage to the surface of the installed pavers. You want the pavers to set firmly in the sand base, than filled to achieve interlock. You may have to cut some of the pavers if the drop edge is sharp, but typically the will make the transition smoothly.

Kirk