Ok to "weed & feed" now??

[kbreese]

I had the lawn thatched and overseeded & fertilized 3 weeks ago, than the following week I put down more seed & starter fertilizer again (2 weeks ago) as I felt the guy didn't put down enough seed initially.

He told me to wait like a month before putting down any weed killer, but I am having a lot of weeds coming in right now, so I want to know if it's ok to do it sooner. Alot of the bare spots have already sprouted. Some more than other and some none at all. And there is still a good amount of seed I can see in some areas.

I have a bag of Scotts "Weed and feed"...will this kill the seed that hasnt germinated yet? Or is it too late for that seed to germinate anyway? I don't know if it kinda dies after a couple weeks of sitting on top of the soil or grass. I have been watering it 3 times a day (IG sprinklers) keeping everything wet, and we have also had a lot of rain too, so that hasnt been a problem. Just all these darned weeds I want to kill!

[northernsvc's]

general rule of thumb now chemical weeding until 4th mowing in my book, remove them by hand for now, or spot spray.

[Lumberjack]

No dont weed and feed, it will ruin the seed. You were probably seeded with a mixture of grasses. one will be fast to sprout and grow to help retain the soil etc. and the other two will be slower growing sun and shade grasses. Locally they use annual rye mixed with ky bluegrass and red fescue. the BG and fescue can take upwards of a month to germinate. For now get the grass started and worry about weeds next year.

[kbreese]

The seed used was "Rebel Supreme" which is a Fescue blend. Ok so the seeds are likely still in the germination process?? The other side if the driveway was all dirt and we had topsoil put down and seed etc making a brand new lawn. This was done the same time. Alot of grass has sprouted over there some like 3" tall. There is still alot of bare spots, in between etc etc, i'd say maybe 50% coverage right now. So i take it it will still continue to fill in a lot more?? LWe have definitely been keeping it well watered and there is no shade, its pretty much fully exposed.

As far as the weed and feed so I shouldnt do this at all? What about in another few weeks? Or its too late in the season??

[Lumberjack]

Fescues can be very slow starters, a second round of seeding may also be needed in the thin areas. For now Id just sit and watch the grass grow :) If it doesnt start up in a week or two more you might have an issue or two you need to fix.


Wait at least untill the fall weed season for the weed and feed.

[lawnmaniac883]

Cut back your watering a little. Take it easy with the fert too. You have overfertilized the ground by following up your installers fertilizer with some of your own. Too much fert = weed heaven. Same goes with the water. Too much water and the grass will not grow as it should instead weeds will take over. No weed and feed now, it has more fertilizer in it and that is the last thing you need at this point.

[kbreese]

Cut back your watering a little. Take it easy with the fert too. You have overfertilized the ground by following up your installers fertilizer with some of your own. Too much fert = weed heaven. Same goes with the water. Too much water and the grass will not grow as it should instead weeds will take over. No weed and feed now, it has more fertilizer in it and that is the last thing you need at this point.

Well, its not 20 mins per cycle, I set it to only 10 mins for each zone, 3X a day. Reason being you are supposed to keep it "moist" which is hard, especially with no shade. Should I still cut back??

I think you are right about the fertilizer, b/c a LOT of weeds have come in!

[lawnmaniac883]

Has all the seed germinated yet?

[kbreese]

I am not sure. The original seeding was 3 weeks ago, and than I reseeded 2 weeks ago. As I said before there is still some visible seed sitting on top ot the ground in places, so I guess the answer is no. But I don't know if that seed will ever germinate since it's kinda just laying there. Not sure if there is enough soil contact. a decent amount of it has germinated though, b/c there is new grass coming up in a lot of the bare spots. As far as the side that where a new lawn was started with the new topsoil, its about 50% coverage grass to soil. Not sure if more seed will continue to germinate or not. When I reseeded I also re-raked the whole thing to get the seeds into the soil, so alot of seeds arent visible being under the soil.

[JWTurfguy]

Kbreese, I live in Stratford, CT, so I can actually see Port Jeff, LI from the beach here. Did you get the same flooding that we got last week from all of the rain? We got up to 8 inches of rain here on the other side of the LI Sound.....if you got that much rain, there's a good chance that your seed washed away. If so, don't feel too bad. A lot of people had that problem.

Unfortunately, even if your seed didn't wash away. there's also a good chance that by seeding on top of what your landscaper seeded, you put down too much seed. Creeping Red Fescue (which is probably what your landscaper put down if you're saying "fescue" spreads as it grows, so even though you may think he didn't put down enough, maybe he did). Too much seed causes the seedlings to choke themselves out. Best advice is to leave it alone for another week or so and see what happens. If nothing takes, put down perennial rye (not annual rye) without fert. Perennial rye should come up within a week or so. Overseed again with your fescues, etc later in the fall when weed competition is less of an issue.

Shane

[kbreese]

**Ok first off, my next important question is: They sell certain type of spray weed killers that are supposed to kill weeds but not the grass. I have a sprayer and I used some of this last year. and I still have the bottle it's Ortho Basic Solutions "Lawn weed killer" Its says "Kills weeds won't harm the lawn." Is it ok for me to spray this on the areas that have a lot of weeds?

Yeah we got a lot of rain the past two weeks, not sure of the exact amount but we got a decent amount. However we really didn't have any bad torrential downpouring. it was a little heavy a few times, not not too bad....more of a consistent lightet to medium type rain. I kept my eye on it and the new top soil didn't really wash away at all. it was puddling in areas but everything seemed to stay. I doubt the seed on the established lawn washed away much b/c I assume all the grass kinda keeps it in place.

As far as the too much seed thing, goes thanks for the info. I didn't think you could put too much seed down (within reason) but I gues too much of anything is not a good thing.

Whether it's creeping red fescue or not, I am not sure. What he put down was "Rebel Supreme" made by pennington seed. I saw the bag so I know thats what it is. They sell it at Home depot. Was $45 per 25lb bag. So when I reseeded over what he did I went and bought the same exact stuff. Says it "contains at least 50% from the family of top-rated rebel tall fascues blended to resist lawn disease."

Here is the breakdown on the tag:
Rebel III tall fescue 48.77%
Rebel Exeda tall fescue 34.69%
Rebel 2000 tall fescue 14.92%

Do these grasses creep or spread by themselves?? That would be great if they did b/c the lawn would sort of self thicken!

As far as the perrenial Rye, I actually have two bags of Scott's Perennial rye left over from last year, if I need to use it. I didn't think it would be all that sightly though to mix that into the fescue which is a different type of grass....but than again, the other side of the lawn is a mix of who knows what so I guess it doesnt matter, lol.

[Lumberjack]

You have tall fescue.
Creeping red fescue is ... well different. its creepy and red? :rolleyes:

the rye grass is intended to creat a quick ground cover untill the fescue grows in after which it should die off. You might want to try and trade it for more tall fescue....

[kbreese]

You have tall fescue.
Creeping red fescue is ... well different. its creepy and red? :rolleyes:

the rye grass is intended to creat a quick ground cover untill the fescue grows in after which it should die off. You might want to try and trade it for more tall fescue....

But Perennial means it doesn't die off and comes back every year, no? I know the perrenial rye we planted in the back yard is back this year. I think I will just stick with the Fescue in the front anyhow.

What about my weed killer question? Is it ok to spray it on the weeds? According to the bottle it just kills the weeds and not the grass. I don't mean now as i don't want it to affect any seed that could still germinate, but in a few weeks.

[lawnmaniac883]

If it is the ortho brand from home cheapo dont waste your time. That stuff cant kill a friggin clover even if you dump the whole bottle on it. If it is some spot treat stuff from Lesco then have at it.

[JWTurfguy]

Ok, well, I've got your answer. It helps that you stated that it was Tall Fescue. Here's the problem: Tall Fescue won't even begin to germinate here in the Northeast until June. It's primarily a transition zone grass. Where I grew up in Georgia, it's the most common grass (sort of like perennial rye is here). But with the cool temps we've been having (it's going to dip back down into the mid 40s again tonight), you aren't going to get Tall Fescue up anytime soon.

Reseed with an annual rye if you want. If you're going to Home Depot, it's the stuff that Scotts calls Contractor's Mix. Once it gets warmer out (like high 70s, etc, consistently) try again with your Tall Fescue. Annual rye will begin to die out once it gets hot, thus making way for the Tall Fescue to come up.

Sorry for the bad news, but that's just the way it is here in the Northeast. By the way, your landscaper probably should have known better than to have planted Tall Fescue on LI in April....give him a call....sounds like he owes you a reseeding.

[JWTurfguy]

Oh, another thing....the reason your landscaper probably thought to put down Tall Fescue is the fact that it's pretty resistant to heat and drought (obviously, because it's designed to be grown in warmer climates). Generally speaking, grass germinates best in the conditions in which it best thrives. And, yes, you're right about Perennial Rye. Perennial means that it sticks around year after year. That's why I suggested Annual Rye, which will thin out and die when it gets warmer. I think Lumberjack might have gotten the two confused by accident....

[kbreese]

JW Turf, but it did germinate. All the spots arent covered but theres a lot of that fescue grass that has sprung up. On an angle you see quite a bit of green. Also, from what I have read, fescue is a cool season grass. I am confused. I will have to post pics of the grass that has come up...

[Lumberjack]

I think Lumberjack might have gotten the two confused by accident....

Yeah I get that sort of thing bassackwards....

Would a creeping red fescue work well in your neck of the woods?

[LarryF]

from what I have read, fescue is a cool season grass. I am confused....

Ditto! There are a lot of web sites that declare this (fescue is a cool-season grass) to be the case. One, for example is the following.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=howTo&p=LawnGarden/Turf_grass/Tall_Fescue.html

And although late-summer/early-fall seems to be the preferred time for planting tall fescue, they say that late-winter/early-spring is also ok. But these other consultants don't seem to mention mid summer when it's hot and dry.

And like you, kbreese, I seeded tall fescue early this spring, and it's coming up, but with a lot of bare spots at first. But we had lots of rain these past couple of weeks in NJ, and it's filling in very well even though it's been relatively chilly.

[kbreese]

Ditto! There are a lot of web sites that declare this (fescue is a cool-season grass) to be the case. One, for example is the following.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=howTo&p=LawnGarden/Turf_grass/Tall_Fescue.html

And although late-summer/early-fall seems to be the preferred time for planting tall fescue, they say that late-winter/early-spring is also ok. But these other consultants don't seem to mention mid summer when it's hot and dry.

And like you, kbreese, I seeded tall fescue early this spring, and it's coming up, but with a lot of bare spots at first. But we had lots of rain these past couple of weeks in NJ, and it's filling in very well even though it's been relatively chilly.

Thats good to hear that your bare spots filled in. It give me hope that mine will eventually fill in b/c I have quite a lot of bare/thin areas. I am happy with the way the actual grass looks though.

One thing that sucks is some moron (Probably kids) drove right through the lawn as the gass was starting to come up. The soil was prety moist at the time and they left some nice ruts. I went out and raked it and reseeded there, but the tracks are a huge glaring eye sore. Thats an area I really hope fills in soon!

[LarryF]

One thing that sucks is some moron (Probably kids) drove right through the lawn as the gass was starting to come up.

I can sympatize with that situation too. Some teenagers in my neighborhood have ATVs. I have a corner lot with pretty steep hills next to the curb, and for a kid on an ATV it must be a delicious temptation. They've rutted my lawn more than once. It doesn't happen continually, and I have always been able to get grass growing again, but being that it's a hill makes it even harder to do so.

And by the way, I didn't mean to imply that I had just left the bare spots alone and they filled in magically. I throw handfulls of seed at them whenever there is a forecast of rain, and afterwards I try to keep it wet using a hose. I'm going to try to nurse it this way through the summer and then reseed sometime around the middle of August.