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View Full Version : different way of laying a patio?


jacob land and
05-26-2006, 02:39 PM
the past 3 patios i have done i used a base of compacted crushed limestone (12-15 inches thick) and a layer of sand (1-2 inches thick) i was at a nursery today to get a price on materials i.e crushed limestone and sand. and was told that they always use slag it is finely crush stone i think, i am not sure if they use a top layer of sand with it or not but they said you only need 4-5 inches compacted for your base and it will be as strong as concrete, was wondering if everyone is using SLAG or are some people still using the crushed lime stone. i cant belive that 4-5 inches would be very solid ????

YardPro
05-26-2006, 08:24 PM
icpi is adamant about not using limestone becuase of the elongated particles having the tendancy to move across each other.

also they say use 1" washed sand.

Cahsking
05-26-2006, 09:25 PM
OK I'm lost on a couple of things you said... but heres how I do a paver job. One way is to have concrete poured and formed to what you may need. This comes in handy when doing driveways cause all you need is sand. Second is using a combination of #5 and #7 gravel. You are better off getting this with a powder, some gravel yards wash their stone too much to get it with the powder, so you can sub in a concrete powder. In humid areas (like OHIO) I can let mother nature secure my base. If you can get the 5,7 with the powder, use a good amount of water and tamper it every 2 inches. It is just like chunky concrete!! Once you get it almost level you can use the sand of your choice to even out the base. I like to use half the size of my paver to determine the amount of sand I use. Like if a paver is 2" I use 1" of sand. Hope this helps.:cool2:

mbella
05-26-2006, 09:41 PM
Cashking, doesn't your first method kind of defeat the primary benefit of a flexible pavement?

mrusk
05-26-2006, 09:52 PM
Once you get it almost level you can use the sand of your choice to even out the base. I like to use half the size of my paver to determine the amount of sand I use. Like if a paver is 2" I use 1" of sand. Hope this helps.:cool2:


Last time i checked the sand is not added to 'even out the base"!!!

cgland
05-26-2006, 10:32 PM
This seems to be the place for awful advice.

Chris

cleancutccl
05-26-2006, 10:46 PM
no matter how much sand you have your pavers will level to your base. Base not level = pavers not level.

Cahsking
05-27-2006, 12:20 AM
Wow didn't know this would turn into critic a method. Surprising no one posted any answers to his question, just gripes about my post. First off...I wasn't sure if he was talking about pavers on just dirt, the example given was for driveways. Expand your product and you too may be able to add pavers to concrete. Thanks! Second, to all the know it alls, what do you do after you add the sand? Oh yeah what do you do after you add the pavers?? I never said keep the 5,7 base un-level but its kind of hard to get a perfect level on it after it has been soaked and tampered. So Ill be waiting your answers...

Rex Mann
05-27-2006, 12:47 AM
CashKing,
E
Hello from a former Ohioan.

There is allot of misinformation about installing pavers floating around out there. This site is a great place to learn the "best practices" for the industry. Many knowledgeable installers post here on a regular bases. They have a great deal of information to share, unfortunately they do not "sugar-coat" their opinions, observations or critiques. Even though this information is not presented in a nurturing way, it is intended to help you become better at your craft.

That being said, I suggest you take the ICPI Basic Contractor Certification Class. It will equip you with the beginning information to start installing pavers using the "best industry practices".

Peace,

Rex Mann

RM Stonescaping
ICPI Instructor

http://PaverExperts.Com

Cahsking
05-27-2006, 12:58 AM
this isn't my thread. ReX, I know how to do pavers, I just gave a suggestion. Didn't know that you had to be certified to post on here.

tylermckee
05-27-2006, 01:03 AM
maybe its just me but i always thought you lay your base and get it as perfect as you can. then lay your sand over the top screeding it off with some pipe or whatever you choose to use. then lay your pavers ontop of the uncompacted sand, then when finished you run a plate over the pavers untill reaching compaction.

kris
05-27-2006, 06:26 AM
This seems to be the place for awful advice.

Chris

Sure can be ...then one of the guys gets all offended when called on it :dizzy:

Gets tiring doesn't it.

cedarcroft
05-27-2006, 08:22 AM
I am confused now.

kris
05-27-2006, 09:00 AM
What are you confused about?

mbella
05-27-2006, 09:12 AM
Wow didn't know this would turn into critic a method. Surprising no one posted any answers to his question, just gripes about my post. First off...I wasn't sure if he was talking about pavers on just dirt, the example given was for driveways. Expand your product and you too may be able to add pavers to concrete. Thanks! Second, to all the know it alls, what do you do after you add the sand? Oh yeah what do you do after you add the pavers?? I never said keep the 5,7 base un-level but its kind of hard to get a perfect level on it after it has been soaked and tampered. So Ill be waiting your answers...

Cashking, first, the first reply to this thread by Yardpro addressed his question.

Second, I asked you a question (which you didn't answer) and wasn't gripin at all.

Squizzy246B
05-27-2006, 10:15 AM
the past 3 patios i have done i used a base of compacted crushed limestone (12-15 inches thick) and a layer of sand (1-2 inches thick) i was at a nursery today to get a price on materials i.e crushed limestone and sand. and was told that they always use slag it is finely crush stone i think, i am not sure if they use a top layer of sand with it or not but they said you only need 4-5 inches compacted for your base and it will be as strong as concrete, was wondering if everyone is using SLAG or are some people still using the crushed lime stone. i cant belive that 4-5 inches would be very solid ????


icpi is adamant about not using limestone becuase of the elongated particles having the tendancy to move across each other.

also they say use 1" washed sand.

I have heard the statements about crushed limestone and ICPI in this board a number of times before and I have to assume that crushed limestone in the states and here is not the same.

We use 75 mm (3") crushed limestone for road sub-base, paving base (with 1" of sand) and just about every carpark, building, freeway etc for under concret, ashphalt, paving and so on. 75mm crushed limestone has no stone larger than 3" but no other size parameter so it has lots of smaller stones and fines. Here Aus Standards apply for deliterous content but other than that its just crushed limestone. Its endearing quality is to remain porous even when compacted to 98%.

Other than that I can't help much in that we don't have to worry about things freezing an stuff:dizzy:

akerr
05-29-2006, 12:45 PM
every patio/hardscape project is different you can't generalize, there are many factures that dictate how you will lay your "base". "Slag" is a by product of steel which we do not have in Virginia, but some of our clients are from the Ohio/Penn. area and they refer to gravel as "slag". we do not lay cast concerte wall systems and we do not use cast concerte pavers so we have no experience with certifications on our base. We lay a molded brick made by Glen Grey it is 53DD(which is the style/color code). it made in a form not cut, so it has a true bottom and top. there are many irregularities in the brick which gives it an antique look. the way we prepare our base for this product is simple. if the patio is on undistured soil we excavate about 6in +or-and lay gravel dust. then we hose the dust to keep it wet and tamp with a plate tamper . we then find our quarter inch to the foot fall and adjust our dust accordingly. once our dust has the desired fall we start laying brick and this goes pretty quick. we don't use a sand base on top of the dust because it is not needed. once the brick is laid we sweep dust ontop of the project, hose it off and repeat a few times. the dust locks to bricks together and you have to use a towel and brick hammer to remove one if you needed to. this is how we do our base for undisturbed soil, in virginia. we do not have deep freezes in the winter our frost line is 2plus feet but real never more than six inches. this entire winter the soil was frozen 3-4inches max. if you were doing a hardscape on disturbed soil, a new house that has just be back filled you have an entirely different story.

cgland
05-29-2006, 11:17 PM
DeJaVu!:hammerhead: :dizzy:

Chris

paponte
06-02-2006, 11:25 PM
Small fortunes being made on rework these days. :clapping:

Cahsking
06-03-2006, 12:26 AM
Cashking, doesn't your first method kind of defeat the primary benefit of a flexible pavement?

Heres your answer...

When you use pavers over concrete the concrete becomes the solid base. Therefore the need of flexibility lies in the construction of the concrete. The use of sand secures the pavers. As long as there is good drainage, no cracks, and a decent slope. But all are not necessary, if a level slab is to be covered, then a good border to hold the pavers is needed. Pavers can be placed on a concrete slab.

Heres a post I just happened to stumble on...
http://www.bobvila.com/wwwboard/messages/17009.html

And heres a little site that reiterates what I said....
http://www.coateshomecentre.com.au/tips_tricks/tip_installing_brick_pavers.htm

Get it? Got it? Good?? :rolleyes:

Branching Out
06-03-2006, 03:04 PM
Small fortunes being made on rework these days. :clapping:

Paul.
I'm curious. What do you lay your pavers on. I am in the same general area, and I am always curious what other guys are doing. I figure the more ideas i have and know, the better I am.

Ron