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View Full Version : When do you cry "UNCLE!"


thepawnshop
06-04-2006, 11:27 PM
OK, those of you who know me here on this board KNOW that I am a JD fan boy, but I am getting frustrated. I abslolutely LOVE my CT322...when it runs. She has under 200 hours on it and so far I have had to deal with the following:


Fuel pump problem (she would start and immediately cut off)
Front door track broke (won't run unless the door is closed...wouldn't close)
Track tensioner busted (kept leaking grease and releasing track tension..threw tracks repeatedly)
Electronics Problem (replaced the whole console...temp gauge still doesn't work)
Loss of hydraulic pressure
Blew a front cylendar seal at the bucket


Some of the problems have been more serious than others, but they are still documented problems nonetheless.

I will say, my dealer has been very fast to fix each problem, but I think I am the victem of buying a first generation machine...it has a butt-load of bugs and I am growing frustrated. At what point am I able to say...this machine is a POS...what can you do for me?

Has anyone else been in this situation? Like I said, my beef isn't with the dealer, but I think I have a lemon. I really need some advice...other than "you shoulda bought a Cat".

Thanks and please, be gentle!

Dirty Water
06-04-2006, 11:56 PM
Doug....You should have bought a cat.....

Just kidding :D :D

Deere had a lot of problems with their 200 series too.... Perhaps Deere just hasn't gotten the kinks ironed out yet.

Perhaps you can get your dealer to buy it back and get another one?

Scag48
06-05-2006, 01:51 AM
Hope you get it figured out Doug. That's about all I'm going to say, I don't want to start a war! :headphones:

Tigerotor77W
06-05-2006, 07:43 AM
As always, take my suggestion with a grain of salt -- especially true here, as I'm still naive in my understanding of how dealer-customer relationships work.

At any rate, it sounds like two things:

1) your machine isn't typical of a 300-series machine;
2) you have a responsive dealer.

If I recall correctly, your 320 SSL didn't have these problems, right? (Or did it not have all the options the 322 does?) If/since that's the case, you may want to ask your dealer what's up with the machine -- you've clearly been a loyal customer (the telehandler purchase notwithstanding), and you clearly like the machine. Why not just tell the dealer as it is: the machine hasn't been delivering the same brand value you've come to expect and you'd like an solution (not just an answer)?

Of course, that could just a simple thing to say rather than to do... but I guess that's my first impression.

AWJ Services
06-05-2006, 08:09 AM
Why not just tell the dealer as it is: the machine hasn't been delivering the same brand value you've come to expect and you'd like an solution (not just an answer)?

This is really good advice.
But the dealer will only go so far on his dime so if JD will not step up and help the Dealer solve the problem It may present a new can of worms.

If you like the machine ask to trade it in and get another.
If you think it is a JD issue you may have to venture out and purchase another brand.

Remember Brand Loyalaty does not pay the bills.

I would also consider that your dealer has really stepped up too the plate with his end service wise.
Does your Dealer sell any other Brands?

thepawnshop
06-05-2006, 08:56 AM
They only sell Deere. I am hoping that any other 322 users on this site may be able to share how thier machines are holding up. I must admit, I was a bit nervous buying a 1st generation CTL from Deere, but as Xing mentioned, I had no problems with my 320, BUT... Itraded her before she even had 100 hours on it for the CTL.

The whole "dealer can only do so much" thing is what concerns me. Yes, they are quick to fix my machine, but it is still down until the cavalry arrives! Perhaps this is just a bad machine, or perhaps I'm just one unlucky guy. It should be repaired today and I am working at one of my pawnshops anyway, but I HAVE to have it tomorrow so lets see first how this plays out and second, how long between this and the next failure.

As far as another brand of CTL...I think I'm too scared to go with another dealer as of yet...still can't beat the service.

Squizzy246B
06-05-2006, 09:58 AM
Hey Doug....ya shoulda got a Cat....so you could experience the same thing as us and the 301.8C. They have been out to the drive motors about 5 times and are now talking about replacing either the undercarriage complete or the whole machine. At least with Cat ya get those really cool looking service trucks:cry: :rolleyes:

Construct'O
06-05-2006, 10:39 AM
HI! Doug
Sorry about all the problems.I don't have ctl 322,i have the ctl332.About the same machine,but one difference is the engine.I have a 5 cyclinder engine.

So far the problems that i have had is as follows:
Problem>>>>temperture vale for the heater(which also controls the air cond.)
Fix >>> replace valve,but have had repeat trouble again

Problem>>> rear idler on the tracks the bearing went out.(they are Berco)
Fix >>>replaced idler( it looked like it had never been filled with oil or grease from factory)Since it was Berco making for Deere i didn't blame Deere.

Fast and quick service from my dealer also.

Problem>>>>> Machine wouldn't start i had machine running because of having mounted backhoe on.You can set the hydrualic on bypass so you can get out and sit on backhoe and run it.

Fix>>>> a fuse(when i get in and out of the machine with it running and backhoe on it i step on the attachment pedal and when i do that it will kill the engine safety thing.After repeated times it blew the fuse finally.)

Hydrualics are noisier then i like,but are stong,basicly machine so far is performing good to excellent.

As far as the window (which is suppose to be a safety issue,which i'm a safety person) you can disconnect switch at the top of the window at the back and will run with the door open.Which the way i see it !!!!!!!!!! what is the difference of it running with the window open or if you had a machine without a cab which is open running.So duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why do we have switch on window.

You have the switch on the seat that you have to be setting on and the full seat belt with switch.Safety is good ,but sometime it gets to be a little over kill.

Back to your problems.In pass post that i have read of yours>>>> your help also runs your machine and you posted about breaking handle on the controls,so with that said, is it all the machines fault or your operators.If i remember right neither one of them knew how it happened and which one did it.

Might want to have a talk with them about why the machine is breaking down more then needed.

By the way being in midwest i know my machine doesn't have to go through the extremes as much as other in the country which i'm glad.Most of what i work in is dirt.I have 200 hours on machine so far.I also got the 3 year 3000 hour extended warrenty ,because of machine beening first series ctl.Good idea for anyone buying first off the line machine.

By the way mine was one of the first off line,be that good or bad.Went to factory and got gold key customer tour through the factory.It was a great experience.Dubuque,Iowa.

Sorry for the long post ,but you asked and there are the problems and fixs along with other info.Which is so far miner,the way i see them.What was your hydrualic problem?????????(more details please) Thank you.

Construct'O
06-05-2006, 10:54 AM
Thought i would add more info .Your problem with the window broke and not being able to close, to those who don't know about Deere the on and off switch and the park brake and hydrualic switch they are above the window (which covers the whole consol),so you can't get too them if the window is broke and is up .

So there is a whole bunch of issues you have to deal with when the window won't close.

I did have to have my window ajusted,it wouldn't open ,they adjusted it and has been okay since.

wmtom
06-05-2006, 06:43 PM
I have a CTL 322 it has about 130 hrs and so far the only problem I have had is the glass has come unglued for the frame my dealer gave me a new door and the glass came loose from it also. So my dealer said they had sent my orginal door to a local glass company and had it fixed still need to pick it up. The belt is starting to make a little noise but I think its from the sand. I do alot of work on the beach. I am in Pensacola, Florida the beach sand here is real fine. Hope you just a lemon and this is not the start of problems for me to come.

Mike Thomas

qps
06-05-2006, 10:59 PM
Hey Doug....ya shoulda got a Cat....so you could experience the same thing as us and the 301.8C. They have been out to the drive motors about 5 times and are now talking about replacing either the undercarriage complete or the whole machine. At least with Cat ya get those really cool looking service trucks:cry: :rolleyes:


They (Cat) replaced my 257B with drive motor problems...but I had only had it a couple of months....the 257B...already replaced one of the drive motors..:dizzy: I'm getting a bigger machine next time...267...maybe C model by then.....

Scag48
06-05-2006, 11:45 PM
I guess I consider myself lucky then. 350 hours on our 216 with no major problems, 225 hours on the 303CR with zero problems, 200 hours on the 312 with no problems, and a solid 8 hours on the 277B with no problems yet! :weightlifter:

thepawnshop
06-06-2006, 12:58 AM
HI! Doug

Back to your problems.In pass post that i have read of yours>>>> your help also runs your machine and you posted about breaking handle on the controls,so with that said, is it all the machines fault or your operators.If i remember right neither one of them knew how it happened and which one did it.

Might want to have a talk with them about why the machine is breaking down more then needed.


Sorry for the long post ,but you asked and there are the problems and fixs along with other info.Which is so far miner,the way i see them.What was your hydrualic problem?????????(more details please) Thank you.

First point...I don't let anyone else use my equipment anymore...I am far too anal about how my machines are operated. Learned my lesson after that quick tach episode.

As far as hydraulics issue, when I went on the JD factory tour, I met some other users that were talking about how they could pick up two ton pipes and move them with ease...they claimed they were lifting them fairly high as well. When I got back I was working on a retaining wall where the pallets weight about 3800lbs. and it was all my machine could do to lift them 1/2 inch off the ground. My sales rep seemed to think that my machine should have been able to handle the pallets a bit easier so he had a service guy come out and take a look and found some issue causing it to lose hydraulic pressure. I know the machine is not rated for that kind of weight, but according to several folks, dealer included, it should be able to move that kind of weight, though I know I can't load and unload trucks with that kind of weight.

I love the machine...I'm just getting frustrated. I have an a** load of material to move tomorrow...I have rented a 120 excavator to loosen the dirt and all I can think about is "I hope my CTL doesn't fail me during this project". You know, when you spend that kind of moola, you really shouldn't have to wonder about that....

Canon Landscaping
06-07-2006, 12:33 PM
I have a CT322 it has 200 hours not a single problem and ours will pick up just about anything we want it to we also give ours hell it is run very hard and the tracks and undercarriage are holding up better than expected. We run 2 supply yards and landscapers come in and see it and sometimes we let them go play with it in our top soil pile and they are all amazed at what it can do and it has led to a few sales for Deere.

Canon Landscaping
06-07-2006, 12:42 PM
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=137952&page=3&highlight=cannon+lifting

mrusk
06-07-2006, 04:37 PM
Scag- You don't put to many hours on your 216 do ya? I think i only had the 246 for 5-6 weeks now and i already have 50hrs on it! Ofcourse i did spend alot of time diging on the job i am on now.

Scag48
06-07-2006, 04:54 PM
Nope, not very many hours at all. But, we won't sell it because it's still only 5 feet wide and sometimes that's all we're limited to between property lines. Since the 216's main focus is landscaping support equipment, it rarely gets used over 10 hours a week, whereas I've put 25 hours a week on the 303 and I slapped down a nice 45 hours on the 312 a couple weeks ago in about 3 days time.

iowacatman
06-07-2006, 08:33 PM
I'm not going to say you shoulda bought a Cat, somebody has to buy the other brand stuff, as long as it isn't my customers. :)

The question I hear you asking is, at what point can I say enough! That really is up to you. 'Lemon Laws' vary from state to state but usually deal with a particular problem. If the dealer cannot fix them (most states allow three attempts) then 'Lemon Law' can be invoked and the dealer has to replace the item.

It doesn't sound like this applies to you, so lets try another angle. If this is a machine riddled with issues (a Friday machine so to speak), I would ask the dealer what it would cost to trade out of it. I would say anything from $10-$20 per hour would be reasonable. So, if you have 100 hours on the machine, $1000 to $2000 would be reasonable. If you compare that to the cost of rental, or the cost of your downtime, you may agree that is pretty reasonable.

If you are afraid a different machine would give you the same problems, then you may as well keep this one, and let them work through the bugs.

I love it that it is a John Deere having this problem, but trust me guys, no one is immune to the "buggy equipment syndrome" (right squizzy?). The bottom line, how does the OEM and dealer respond.

thepawnshop
06-08-2006, 12:26 AM
As I have said many times, my dealer is tops. I'm going to ride this out and see how it goes. I had a couple hours on it yesterday, 8 on it today and anticipate at least 8 more tomorrow, so if something is going to give, it will this week!

Whe it runs, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, IMO....I just want it to run all the time!

Tigerotor77W
06-08-2006, 07:49 AM
Hey now, maybe it's done giving and all will be smooth from now on... think positive, Doug! :p

Squizzy246B
06-09-2006, 07:58 AM
but trust me guys, no one is immune to the "buggy equipment syndrome" (right squizzy?). The bottom line, how does the OEM and dealer respond.

Exactly...and never buy a new model I say...no matter what manufacturer...it pays to have someone else iron out the bugs.

Tigerotor77W
06-11-2006, 10:28 PM
Doug, how did it go? I truly hope everything went all right. I know I really come to appreciate a machine when it acts up on me... and all of a sudden, it's fine and I really get to know what it is capable of.

thepawnshop
06-11-2006, 11:36 PM
So far so good...I am back up and running. Granted, I have broken BOTH of the quick tach handles in the last two days...other than that, the machine is running strong.

I have rented a CTL332 to help with moving a butt-load of dirt (I can rent a 332 for a fraction of renting a track loader...and with both the 322 and 332 I can move about as much dirt in the same amount of time....it is all loose topsoil). I must say, after using the 332, the thought of "crying uncle" is even stronger...I would absolutely LOVE to get them to buy back my little 322 and get a 332 in its place...that is one heck of a machine!

AWJ Services
06-12-2006, 12:10 AM
I have rented a CTL332 to help with moving a butt-load of dirt (I can rent a 332 for a fraction of renting a track loader...and with both the 322 and 332 I can move about as much dirt in the same amount of time....it is all loose topsoil). I must say, after using the 332, the thought of "crying uncle" is even stronger...I would absolutely LOVE to get them to buy back my little 322 and get a 332 in its place...that is one heck of a machine!

Maybe everything happens for a reason.
Bigger is Better Right.:clapping:

When it comes too moving dirt the ROC rating does not mean squat.
The little 322 I demoed would lift alot for it's size but it was no comparisson to the TL 140 for shear grading and dirt moving.
Maybe I should have demoed the 332.


Well no matter the outcome I sure hope things go your way thats for sure.

Bill Eh
06-12-2006, 09:07 AM
Hey Doug....ya shoulda got a Cat....so you could experience the same thing as us and the 301.8C. They have been out to the drive motors about 5 times and are now talking about replacing either the undercarriage complete or the whole machine. At least with Cat ya get those really cool looking service trucks:cry: :rolleyes:

Last fall I looked at Cat 301.8 but bought the Kubota KX41-3. Thought I'd made a mistake when I saw you chose the Cat even though it is much more expensive in Australia. I couldn't be happier with mine. :canadaflag:

Squizzy246B
06-12-2006, 11:39 AM
Last fall I looked at Cat 301.8 but bought the Kubota KX41-3. Thought I'd made a mistake when I saw you chose the Cat even though it is much more expensive in Australia. I couldn't be happier with mine. :canadaflag:

Bill, In excavation mode its hard to go past the 301.8, even with the extra dollars...however, when it comes to pushing...forget it...we got the dud from hell. And we are not the only ones...Cat rental told me they had probs with their 301.5's. When I was at a trade show on the weekend they had a 301.8C on demo and I asked the salesman if they had had any problems with them..."No none at all, going really well".....Lying Pr#ck...I said yeah right and left. At least with Cat we know they will fix it one way or another.

Really glad the 41 is going well for you. We are up for replacing the 161 in the next 12 months and will look at Kubota, Yanmar, Hitachi and Cat. A good friend of ours got a 41 which "was" a lemon and the dealer screwed him. He ended up going over the dealers head to Kubota and got results in the end...but the dealers track record was one of the reasons why we went to Cat for a 2 tonne excavator. Anyway...we will see if Cat can live up to their reputation in sorting the 1.8. Personally I don't give a toss what colour it is as long as it does the job and your no left in the poo heap when it breaks.

Gravel Rat
06-12-2006, 02:28 PM
Sometimes you win sometimes you loose and there are times you have to cut your losses and buy something else another brand or a proven model.

JDSKIDSTEER
06-16-2006, 06:36 AM
They only sell Deere. I am hoping that any other 322 users on this site may be able to share how thier machines are holding up. I must admit, I was a bit nervous buying a 1st generation CTL from Deere, but as Xing mentioned, I had no problems with my 320, BUT... Itraded her before she even had 100 hours on it for the CTL.

The whole "dealer can only do so much" thing is what concerns me. Yes, they are quick to fix my machine, but it is still down until the cavalry arrives! Perhaps this is just a bad machine, or perhaps I'm just one unlucky guy. It should be repaired today and I am working at one of my pawnshops anyway, but I HAVE to have it tomorrow so lets see first how this plays out and second, how long between this and the next failure.

As far as another brand of CTL...I think I'm too scared to go with another dealer as of yet...still can't beat the service.
Hey Doug, Hang in there. I have sold a lot of CTL's and as any dealer that sells any brand machine were honest some machines seem to have a few more problems than others. I sold a 320 in April that had several issues. He put more hours on one of my loaners than he did on his machine. I got tired of taking the loaner out and gave him a new one. No more problems. I then rent to owned the other one at a discounted rate and explained the problems I had with it to the customer. He has had no prblems with it. Don't figure. I have only had that many problems with one customer and he had a lot of issues with his Bobcats. I knew he worked his machines hard and wanted to put the Deere's to the test with him. I always keep him in a new loaner machine when he has problems. I may also add some of the problems are some Deere proto type add ons we are experimenting with. Over all we have had great service. I am just glade you have a good dealer. That is what makes or breaks a brand. I am friends with many competitive dealers and we talk about our problems and we all have our problems at times.