Super z 66 or 72/??? Engine

[risdaone]

I'm looking to buy a Super z Xr-7 72'' deck. I see here a lot of guys have the 66''. What's the advantage of 66 over 72? Also which engine is needed to run these big decks effectively at high speeds/grass? I was going to go with the Kal 25 or the Kohler 27. I keep hearing the Kohler 28 efi is the way to go but it is a lot more money. I have a 20 acre lot to mow weekly and I'm looking for the best buy and long life from the unit. My lot is mostly flat with gentle rolls. I do want to conserve gas and time but also be cost effective. I thank anyone that has any suggestions.

[mowerconsultant]

The 66" is less money than the 72" it also will fit in areas the 72 wont and is less prone to scalping in areas the 72 might.
As to the engine, I would get the most hp you can afford, the 28 EFI or the 30 Kohler would be my choice, but if your saving money the 27 will work also.

[Travis Followell]

I'll add my two cents worth.

If your mowing a 20 acre lot weekly then i'd definately recommend that you go with the 72. As for the engine the 27 Kohler would be fine for the 66 but on the 72 I think it would be slightly underpowered if your wanting to mow weekly growth at a high speed. If you want a cost effective machine then get the 28 hp efi. This engine would be more well suited for the 72 deck and would pay for itself with the fuel savings. The 30 hp engine would cost less than the efi but would burn a lot more gas so it would cost you more money to run.

Hope that helps.

[puppypaws]

If you can average 12 mph the 72" deck will cut 0.73 acres and hour more than the 66" deck and if you don't get the 28 efi and ever get a chance to cut with one you will be sick of the difference it can make over what you have.

[risdaone]

I thank all of you guys. I would like the 28 but at $1000 more and the expense of servicing if something fells makes me lean towards the 30. I have a demo with a 66/30 super z next weekend. For the little money difference, I'm leaning towards the 72/30 super z with flex forks. I'll let you all know how it goes.

[D and H Seasonal Services]

The 66" is less money than the 72" it also will fit in areas the 72 wont and is less prone to scalping in areas the 72 might.
As to the engine, I would get the most hp you can afford, the 28 EFI or the 30 Kohler would be my choice, but if your saving money the 27 will work also.
I was told today that (kohler) is having some problems with the 30hp engine

[TLS]

I demo'd a 30hp Kohler on a 60" Lazer and wasn't impressed at all. These big pumps suck power. You'd need the 28EFI for a 72" for sure. Maybe if they get the 30hp straightened out it'll be OK....who knows.

I'd like to see some bigger HP engines in the big deck SuperZ's. When you dump those sticks, the RPM's really take a dump too!

I think Hustler Skunk Works is working on some higher powered units as we speak....

[risdaone]

Thanks for the heads up. I talked to my local Hustler dealer that is also a Kohler dealer and he said there were some carb problems in the earlier units but it was fixed. I talked to the Mi Kohler rep as well and he said he wasn't aware of any problems but if any evolved Kohler would stand by there product.:confused: I will pay close attention to the 30hp on my demo unit any see if it is any different than the 27hp demo I had .

[DaveVB]

D and H, any more info on that 30hp Kohler problem? I have one on my 72" Toro, that I am not satisfied with. Especially after running a 72"-27hp Kaw.
My dealer has no info he is willing to share.

[puppypaws]

I thank all of you guys. I would like the 28 but at $1000 more and the expense of servicing if something fells makes me lean towards the 30. I have a demo with a 66/30 super z next weekend. For the little money difference, I'm leaning towards the 72/30 super z with flex forks. I'll let you all know how it goes.I am just giving a comparison and I don't know how much more the 72" deck would be but I promise you would be a lot more satisified with the 28 efi. My dealer sells the 28 efi 66" XR-7
for $8999.00 and the same mower with the 30 hp Kohler he sells for $8499.95 so this is only a $500.00 difference and not the $1000.00 you were talking about. I know the 30 hp Kohler will burn at least 30% more fuel and I promise you will feel like you have probably the same power as the 28 because of the fuel injection. I certainly hope you want let $500.00 stand between you and a engine I know you would be more satisfied with. I talked with a representative of Kohler at Chesapeake Engines and he verified exactly what I said that there would be 30% on fuel savings and the 28 would actually feel as strong but more responsive than the 30 because of the fuel injection.

[mowerconsultant]

There has been some carburetor issues with the 30hp Kohler.
There is a update kit.
I am working on getting the rest of the details.

Pj

[tacoma200]

I demo'd a 30hp Kohler on a 60" Lazer and wasn't impressed at all. These big pumps suck power. You'd need the 28EFI for a 72" for sure. Maybe if they get the 30hp straightened out it'll be OK....who knows.

I'd like to see some bigger HP engines in the big deck SuperZ's. When you dump those sticks, the RPM's really take a dump too!

I think Hustler Skunk Works is working on some higher powered units as we speak....

That is exactly what I reported on a post. I test drove the 27 hp 60" and those pumps sucked all the power needed for the deck. Rpm's took a nose dive at higher speeds. Get the largest engine you can, the 28 efi has just as much torque as the 30 hp Kohler according to the booklet Hustler sent me.

[TLS]

My dealer sells the 28 efi 66" XR-7
for $8999.00 and the same mower with the 30 hp Kohler he sells for $8499.95 so this is only a $500.00 difference and not the $1000.00 you were talking about.
Puppypaws,

Thats an unheard of cheap price! For both units. For the rest of us, were paying MSRP minus the $1700 rebate. This DOES translate into the $1000 more for the EFI.

But like you said....well worth it!

I got 1.25gal/hr on my first tankful. Thats heavy and fast mowing BTW and thats over the first 10.1hrs on the machine. I'll keep reporting back as it's broken in.

[D and H Seasonal Services]

D and H, any more info on that 30hp Kohler problem? I have one on my 72" Toro, that I am not satisfied with. Especially after running a 72"-27hp Kaw.
My dealer has no info he is willing to share.


There has been some carburetor issues with the 30hp Kohler.
You can not get the 30hp Kohler right now. I am demoing the 66"/ 26hp Lc on Tuesday afternoon and then might buy the demo unit if all goes well.

[TLS]

I am demoing the 66"/ 26hp Lc on Tuesday afternoon and then might buy the demo unit if all goes well.

Make sure you take into consideration the condition of those blades. I don't know if Sean replaced that warped one yet. That unit only has about 10 more hours than mine, and the blades are TOAST. Someone demoing it must have been mowing dirt with it or something.

Depending on what mower your used to, you may not like the power of the 26LC. I have the 28/60 and find myself wishing there was more!

You'll love those Flex forks on it too!

Have fun!

[puppypaws]

Puppypaws,

Thats an unheard of cheap price! For both units. For the rest of us, were paying MSRP minus the $1700 rebate. This DOES translate into the $1000 more for the EFI.

But like you said....well worth it!

I got 1.25gal/hr on my first tankful. Thats heavy and fast mowing BTW and thats over the first 10.1hrs on the machine. I'll keep reporting back as it's broken in.I'm sorry your so far away or we could have gotten you a better deal, I had one friend that drove 4 hrs. in NC because I told him my dealer would give him a better price than he could get where he was located. When it was all said and done he got the tax discount because he is a farmer and uses it to cut around his chicken and hog houses where food is produced it added up to $1200.00 less than he could buy it from a dealer in his area. He said I can drive 8 hrs. for $1200.00 and he could not believe the difference. He had never heard of a Hustler and he bought the 28 efi 66" XR-7 on my recommendation, after he cut with it a few weeks he called and said he could not believe how much grass he could get cut in an hour with the new mower and his wife had never liked to mow grass but now every time he turned around she was riding that new mower.

[risdaone]

I was told today by a Kohler dealer in Oh: that he didn't hear of any carb issues on the 30. The 30 is about 2 yrs old. Usually a problem would occur in the first 6 mo. If there was a problem, Kohler would stop production and fix the problem. They would issue a field fix to rectify the problem completely. I'm thinking that some units in the field are having problems and the new ordered ones are ok.

[D and H Seasonal Services]

Make sure you take into consideration the condition of those blades. I don't know if Sean replaced that warped one yet. That unit only has about 10 more hours than mine, and the blades are TOAST. Someone demoing it must have been mowing dirt with it or something.

Depending on what mower your used to, you may not like the power of the 26LC. I have the 28/60 and find myself wishing there was more!

You'll love those Flex forks on it too!

Have fun!
Thanks for the warning but it does not matter. I decided to buy a new 28EFI/66". I had to trade my JD 727 A 23hp/54 and could only trade it to a dealer in Paoli, Pa. So Sean is out of the picture. I hate to do that but I have to look out for my best interest and the cost being this is my first year out in the biz.

[puppypaws]

Thanks for the warning but it does not matter. I decided to buy a new 28EFI/66". I had to trade my JD 727 A 23hp/54 and could only trade it to a dealer in Paoli, Pa. So Sean is out of the picture. I hate to do that but I have to look out for my best interest and the cost being this is my first year out in the biz.Make sure to let us know what you think about the new mower, your likes and dislikes.

[blackandgold]

Kohler Reps in Illinois Iowa and Missouri know about the cold starting and power trouble. It seems to be happening on some horizontal and vertical shaft models, but not all 30hp engines.

Somebody isn't telling you the whole story.

[risdaone]

Well I demoed a 30/66 super z. All I can say is “wow”. I cut my front yard (3 acres) in 1hr15min about ½ the time it normally takes me with my trail mower. I cut some of my back yard (9acres) around 6 mph. This grass/weeds was 5ft tall. This machine is bad a@#.:clapping: I did this on 2 passed. I have nothing bad to say about the xr-7 deck. On the other hand, the 30 should be the minimum engine available for a 66+ deck. As someone else said, if you dump the sticks, It will bog down and slowly recover. Gas was decent at around 1 1/3 gal/hr. In thick normal height/ wet under height grass, the engine struggles. It gives a good cut but only at around 5mph. I think I will need the 28efi for normal quick cutting. I just have to find one to demo to be sure. This thing is well built and QUICK. I just need to find a good price this week.:walking:

[puppypaws]

Well I demoed a 30/66 super z. All I can say is “wow”. I cut my front yard (3 acres) in 1hr15min about ½ the time it normally takes me with my trail mower. I cut some of my back yard (9acres) around 6 mph. This grass/weeds was 5ft tall. This machine is bad a@#.:clapping: I did this on 2 passed. I have nothing bad to say about the xr-7 deck. On the other hand, the 30 should be the minimum engine available for a 66+ deck. As someone else said, if you dump the sticks, It will bog down and slowly recover. Gas was decent at around 1 1/3 gal/hr. In thick normal height/ wet under height grass, the engine struggles. It gives a good cut but only at around 5mph. I think I will need the 28efi for normal quick cutting. I just have to find one to demo to be sure. This thing is well built and QUICK. I just need to find a good price this week.:walking:Please come back and tell us in detail the difference you see between the 28 efi and the 30 hp Kohler after you demo the efi, I believe you will find the 28 feels stronger.

[Markf]

We are considering replacing our eXmark 60" AS with a 72" from Hustler, eXmark or Scag. 28 hp dfi up to a 35hp is our range for engines. The 72" seems to be a fit considering the sizes properties that we are now cutting. I have read elsewhere that we should be concerned with scalping. Does a 72" cause that much of a problem? I would like to hear from anyone that has demo'ed/bought this set up. Also, we most likely be putting on a quick dump collection system on the mower. Thank you.
Mark

[risdaone]

I was able to demo a 28efi but not cut grass. It did feel smoother but not stronger. This was a bad test because it wasn't fast. The sales guy told me that the forks were limited to forward movement. I was never getting the hydros to fully open up. The guy wouldn't adjust them either.:angry:(This is a thing not to do when trying to sell a 10k mower):nono: This trip was worthless. This was the only one in a 50mi radius of me in Mi. The 30 has torque, but I'm wondering if I will notice $1000 worth more torque from the 28. It may be better,but I think I'm expecting too much. I want to cut thick green grass (6'' high+) at 10mph+. The 30 does good but, it's response time under heavy heavy load is slow. Normally It responds around 3-4'seconds under a heavy load and I back off the sticks alittle. The 30 has about 3ft.lbs. more than the 28. You can feel it if you don't jump the sticks. I never had a carb/stall problem and I cut with it for a total of 14hrs. I just wonder how much better is the 28 if any for me. I understand for commercial how it may be benificial for weekly cuts (1.3-3'') but not shure for residential at full speed (6+''). Thanks for your input.

[puppypaws]

I was able to demo a 28efi but not cut grass. It did feel smoother but not stronger. This was a bad test because it wasn't fast. The sales guy told me that the forks were limited to forward movement. I was never getting the hydros to fully open up. The guy wouldn't adjust them either.:angry:(This is a thing not to do when trying to sell a 10k mower):nono: This trip was worthless. This was the only one in a 50mi radius of me in Mi. The 30 has torque, but I'm wondering if I will notice $1000 worth more torque from the 28. It may be better,but I think I'm expecting too much. I want to cut thick green grass (6'' high+) at 10mph+. The 30 does good but, it's response time under heavy heavy load is slow. Normally It responds around 3-4'seconds under a heavy load and I back off the sticks alittle. The 30 has about 3ft.lbs. more than the 28. You can feel it if you don't jump the sticks. I never had a carb/stall problem and I cut with it for a total of 14hrs. I just wonder how much better is the 28 if any for me. I understand for commercial how it may be benificial for weekly cuts (1.3-3'') but not shure for residential at full speed (6+''). Thanks for your input.Yep what you did is about as useless as tits on a boar hog maybe PJ can work you out a real demo so we will all get an idea of the difference in these engines. I promise you I cut through grass with the efi and say to myself how did I just cut through that with hardly no drop in rpm's, it is kind of amazing to me the difference fuel injection makes but nobody can tell you this you have to see it for yourself.

[risdaone]

Well I posed the question of 28 vs. 30 to several people and I got the response that the 28 will save fuel and feel smoother. One shop that sold his 28 last week said he got it to bog down but it recovered in 2-3 seconds. No dealer has a 30 or has demod one. The dealer I'm dealing with, Hustler direct, Kohler rep (Mi) and the Hustler rep (Mi) all said that the 30 should have more power over all. I have thought about the 2 days I used it and the 30 has a lot of noticeable power compares to the 27. This was a 30/66 and it was faster than the 27/60. Don't get me wrong, the 30 does a great job. I think I was pushing it hard and expecting it to like a diesel. As long as you weren't going from a dead stop or barely starting to full sticks, it was good on power. I suspect that the 28 may recover from a heavy load better but not by much. I personally think that both are not going to make me jump up and down and Hustler needs a 33-35 hp 60 ft lb. engine in a super z to make an impact:) All in all, I like the super z’s features and comfort but I think more power wouldn't hurt. I have some pictures to post as soon as I figure out how to get them on the site. Do to time of the promotion (2 days left), lack of 28efi at dealers, and $1000 difference I ordered a 30/72. Hustler said it will be at the dealer around 7/10/06. They also said there is a brand new carb on the 30. This might make more of a difference. I have to go to Indiana this weekend. I will see if I can find a 28 to demo to satisfy my curiosity. I hope I will find one so I can give you guys an accurate/ effective comparison.

[mowerconsultant]

E-mail me and I will have my rep try and find you a 28 EFI to demo.

[TLS]

I would agree....a 35hp Vanguard shoehorned in there would be sweet!

No replacement for displacement!

[risdaone]

I have called mostly all of the dealers in Mi., Oh., and In. where I travel and found nothing.:cry: I will still look for one in Oh next week in my travels just to compare but I got the 30 on order so I can save the $1700 by tomorrow. I will let you know if I find something.

[Imow4u2]

35 vangard:hammerhead: No thanks. I can hear it now, Glug Glug Glug.. Kind of like that first beer at the end of a loooonng day!!

[risdaone]

Well I finally got my super z xr7 72/30 with the help of Pg. He's a great man. Again, all I can say is "wow".:) This new 30hp is better and stronger on my 72 than on the 66 I demoed. It is smoother, sounds stronger, and has more noticeable power! If I dump the sticks from a dead stop (done only once since not broken in), it takes about 2 sec. to recover and the rpm's climbs back up. If I dump the sticks rolling, it takes off. Other than that the rpm's dropping a little in thick grass, the power is always there. I just eased off the sticks a little and it maintained about 80% rpm (guessing from the sound) thru the cut. I have a walk out and the demo would bog down going up the hill but this one didn't change a bit. It is very smooth on power but strong on torque. I'm not sure on fuel yet, I would guess around 1.2 gal/hr. I'm going to hook up a tach/hr meter when I get a longer "pick up wire" for it (old one too short to reach spark plug). The flex forks on this thing make me feel like I’m on my four wheeler. It just floats. They work great on pavement also. With out them the front wheels slap around when you start going faster but the flex forks just keeps it going straight. This should extend the bearing life. They take some getting use to but if you make smooth movements instead of jerky driving they pay for themselves. I practically had to pull my wife off of it. (good thing):dancing: The only problem I have is my cut. The demo unit seems to cut better. I think I will have to lower the front baffle a bit. I have to say THANKS to my dealer Lloyds and Pg again. Pg was quick to respond and act on the matter and Dawane at Lloyds made a Saturday delivery from a 3hr+ pick up point as if it was a piece of cake.:clapping: :clapping: I will feel you in on more details as soon as I break it in. The manual says 5 hrs. The online manual says 8hrs. I think I will go for the 8. That will be done this weekend.:)

[TLS]

Sounds great risdaone. Welcome to the Hustler family!

But, I have a question for you...who is Pg?

And please start keeping track of gal/hr, while I'd like to see you get 1.2 gal/hr, I highly doubt it, as the best I can get with my EFI Kohler is 1.33 gal/hr.

[mowerconsultant]

Sounds great risdaone. Welcome to the Hustler family!

But, I have a question for you...who is Pg?


I think he means Pj, as in me...lol...lol......
risdaone, as Tommy said above, welcome the to family !!

[tacoma200]

Keep up updated on the cut and gph. My Lazer uses 1.18 gallons per hour 27hp/60" but I can tell the Super Z with the 27hp/60" is using a bit more (larger pumps motors). The Hustler factory reps seem to think the 30 would drink alot of gas. I would be shocked if it got better than TLS's efi (1.33). Thanks.

[risdaone]

:confused: Sorry, I meant Pj. It was a long day at work yesterday.

[puppypaws]

Sounds great risdaone. Welcome to the Hustler family!

But, I have a question for you...who is Pg?

And please start keeping track of gal/hr, while I'd like to see you get 1.2 gal/hr, I highly doubt it, as the best I can get with my EFI Kohler is 1.33 gal/hr.That seems like to much fuel usage with the 28 efi, anybody else checked theirs it would be some good information. I keep 1000 gallons on my farm and I don't have a meter on either pump, I just put gas in when it needs it but it is a lot better than the 27's I have owned by the amount I can cut now versus what it use to cover.

[TLS]

Maybe I have something wrong?

I really work my mower though.

[jtkplc]

Maybe I have something wrong?

I really work my mower though.

I thought I read someone that had a 28 EFI that was getting about .875 gph. Unless you're working it awfully hard, I was very surprised that it got worse efficiency than my 25 HP Kawasaki which is getting right at 1.2 gph.

[TLS]

I thought I read someone that had a 28 EFI that was getting about .875 gph. Unless you're working it awfully hard, I was very surprised that it got worse efficiency than my 25 HP Kawasaki which is getting right at 1.2 gph.
I'd like to meet the guy getting .875 gal/hr :rolleyes: Maybe he's running 3/4 throttle, going put-put slow, and only taking off 1" of grass.....That's the only way I'd see less than 1 gal/hr!

I checked some of my old records and it seems I was getting 1.4-1.6 gal/hr with my 27hp LC Kawi. I remember heavy spring growth getting it close to 2gal/hr!

So, I guess I really cant complain about the economy on the 28EFI too much.

[Mickhippy]

During summer with some very heavy groath and a fair bit of slope mowing, I found I was getting about 5 litres/hour! Thats about Au$6.50/hour or so.
Or 1.32gallon/hr.

Im pretty happy with that but Im still pushing for that little diesel, PJ!

[jtkplc]

I'd like to meet the guy getting .875 gal/hr :rolleyes: Maybe he's running 3/4 throttle, going put-put slow, and only taking off 1" of grass.....That's the only way I'd see less than 1 gal/hr!
I checked some of my old records and it seems I was getting 1.4-1.6 gal/hr with my 27hp LC Kawi. I remember heavy spring growth getting it close to 2gal/hr!

So, I guess I really cant complain about the economy on the 28EFI too much.

Ok, well I must not be remembering correctly.

[puppypaws]

Ok, well I must not be remembering correctly.No I don't think you are crazy I remember seeing someone post something less than 1 gallon per hour usage on the 28 efi and there very well could have been a mistake, but it was posted. I don't have a clue how much I am burning per hour but I can tell you it is noticeably less than the 27's I have owned.

[jtkplc]

I'd like to meet the guy getting .875 gal/hr :rolleyes: Maybe he's running 3/4 throttle, going put-put slow, and only taking off 1" of grass.....That's the only way I'd see less than 1 gal/hr!

I checked some of my old records and it seems I was getting 1.4-1.6 gal/hr with my 27hp LC Kawi. I remember heavy spring growth getting it close to 2gal/hr!

So, I guess I really cant complain about the economy on the 28EFI too much.

Check this link out. Someone saying they get about .8 gph with their 28 EFI. http://www.lawnsite.com/showpost.php?p=782933&postcount=8

[jtkplc]

Check this link out. Someone saying they get about .8 gph with their 28 EFI. http://www.lawnsite.com/showpost.php?p=782933&postcount=8

Here's another...http://www.lawnsite.com/showpost.php?p=1456841&postcount=9

[risdaone]

I'm still breaking my 72/30 in but I calculated 1.4 gal/hr yesterday. I will keep watching it.

[Z-Man]

: Puppypaws,

Thats an unheard of cheap price! For both units. For the rest of us, were paying MSRP minus the $1700 rebate. This DOES translate into the $1000 more for the EFI.

But like you said....well worth it!

I got 1.25gal/hr on my first tankful. Thats heavy and fast mowing BTW and thats over the first 10.1hrs on the machine. I'll keep reporting back as it's broken in.


TLS,
Who is your local dealer? What kind of pricing do they have?

Z-Man:walking:

[TLS]

:


TLS,
Who is your local dealer? What kind of pricing do they have?

Z-Man:walking:

My local dealer is Blades Equipment in Royersford.

When I bought they were running the MSRP minus the $1700 promo.

[Z-Man]

Puppypaws,

Thats an unheard of cheap price! For both units. For the rest of us, were paying MSRP minus the $1700 rebate. This DOES translate into the $1000 more for the EFI.

But like you said....well worth it!

I got 1.25gal/hr on my first tankful. Thats heavy and fast mowing BTW and thats over the first 10.1hrs on the machine. I'll keep reporting back as it's broken in.
:waving:
TLS,
what do you think of the super z 60" xr7 with the 25hp Kaw. I'm in Delaware are this seems to be what the dealers here are selling the most. I'm torn between the 25hp kaw or 27hp koh. I would love the 28hp efi but not for $1000 more. I just cutting my own lawn now but may branch out.

z-man

[TLS]

Just expect a big drop in RPM's when you dump the sticks.

These Super Z's need 35-38hp engines to allow them to mow uphill at anyspeed.

[blackandgold]

You guys wanting super high horse power better be prepared for higher fuel costs and higher MSRP.

More for less isn't going to happen.

[puppypaws]

:waving:
TLS,
what do you think of the super z 60" xr7 with the 25hp Kaw. I'm in Delaware are this seems to be what the dealers here are selling the most. I'm torn between the 25hp kaw or 27hp koh. I would love the 28hp efi but not for $1000 more. I just cutting my own lawn now but may branch out.

z-manI have run a 25 Kawasaki on a 60" Super Z and have also owned two 27 hp Kohler's on the same mower. The 27's out performed the 25 and the 28 efi I run now on the 66" XR-7 is by far the best engine I have owned . My dealer has a 72" XR-7 which he runs a 28 efi on his personal mower, he told me he has run them all including the 30 hp Kohler on a 72" XR-7 and the 28 efi was by far the stronger feeling engine with at least 25% better fuel economy. I would definitely get the 27 Kohler over the 25 Kawasaki, this is just my opinion but it did come from extensive experience. I personally would pay the thousand dollar difference for the efi but then again my mowers are 100% tax deductible so it doesn't really bother me.

[TLS]

You guys wanting super high horse power better be prepared for higher fuel costs and higher MSRP.

More for less isn't going to happen.

That's one way of looking at it.

However, a more powerful engine (35-38hp - 1Liter class) doesn't have to work nearly as hard as say a 25hp (675cc) engine. Where the Kawi will be full throttle, the big block will be breezing through.

These newer big blocks (Vanguard and the new Kohlers) aren't but a couple pounds heavier and not much more than their smaller counterparts wholesale.

If MSRP goes up, so will resale. I got more money on resale for my LC Lazer than I would have gotten for an otherwise equal 23-25hp Kohler machine.