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North Ga
06-13-2006, 12:45 AM
Heres my situation.I dont have an irrigation system,I use an over the ground oscillating sprinkler to water my beds and lawn.The sprinkler does good EXCEPT when someone else in the house uses water,then the oscillating sprinkler goes from a 9 foot tall sprinkler to about a 5 foot sprinkler from bottom to top.Im on a hill in a subdivision,is that why?

What can I do to increase my water pressure @ my house?
How much will it cost?
Is it something I can do myself?

Thanks in advance

MikeA
06-13-2006, 08:31 AM
I have a similar problem and found a simple solution. I have to spicets on my house. One towards the front of the house near where the water comes into the house and one in the back which is at the end of the line. The spicet in the front has great pressure while the one in the back has alot less. If you have a similar setup, try the other spicet. I guess you can also try putting in another spicet near the water source.

Another possible solution, which could be a big effort, is to replace your water pipes. If you have 1/2 pipe change it to 3/4. That should fix the problem also but could be a HUGE effort.

I am not a plumber so don't take my word as gospel. The first solution should be easy enough to test out with little cost.

fulano
06-13-2006, 09:03 AM
My house in on a hill as well. I don't plan on spending thousands to replace my water pipes to fix the problem. I am going to get a water pressure booster pump (http://cgi.ebay.com/DAVEY-WATER-PRESSURE-BOOSTER-PUMP_W0QQitemZ4469883207QQihZ001QQcategoryZ20685QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem). You can get a water pressure gauge at home depot and test your pressure to see how much of a boost you need first.

Mic_bug
06-13-2006, 12:29 PM
if you have enough hose, you could run a hose from each pigot and merge them with a wye just before your sprinkler. That would give you max volume at a constant pressure.

Cheap and easy.

North Ga
06-13-2006, 12:49 PM
if you have enough hose, you could run a hose from each pigot and merge them with a wye just before your sprinkler. That would give you max volume at a constant pressure.

Cheap and easy.
Mic,whats a wye?

Mic_bug
06-13-2006, 01:02 PM
Mic,whats a wye?


"Y" connection...takes 2 sources to 1 output or 1 source to 2 outputs.

they come from any hardware store in the garden hose section.

Larry Davis
06-13-2006, 02:37 PM
You don't mention whether you are on a well, city water or community supplied water system. This makes a difference as to how you can go about increasing your pressure.

North Ga
06-13-2006, 04:47 PM
Sorry,Im on city water

North Ga
06-13-2006, 04:48 PM
"Y" connection...takes 2 sources to 1 output or 1 source to 2 outputs.

they come from any hardware store in the garden hose section.

Gotcha,Thanks.

LawnScapers of Dayton
06-13-2006, 07:07 PM
larger pipes will only drop your pressure, wying hoses together will not help..pressure is still the same.....and wying 2 -5/8" hoses into 1 -5/8" hose with the same pressure will not increase pressure or volume.

A pressure tank would be the easiest way. It is a tank that has an air bladder in it that creates higher water pressure. I have a 86 gallon one that give me 50-70 PSI on a well. You will have to run the city water into the tank and feed the house from that, there is more to it than that but that is the basics...


Derek

fulano
06-14-2006, 12:31 AM
A pressure tank would be the easiest way. It is a tank that has an air bladder in it that creates higher water pressure. I have a 86 gallon one that give me 50-70 PSI on a well. You will have to run the city water into the tank and feed the house from that, there is more to it than that but that is the basics...


Derek

Since you are storing 86 gallons of water doesn't it get stale after awhile? I know for cooking they never recommend hot water from the tap becuase who knows how long it has sat in your hot water heater, i.e. when trying to speed up process to cook noodles or filling the tea pot, etc.

Here is a popular mechanics article from a few years back (http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_improvement/home_owner_clinic/1275486.html)

LarryF
06-14-2006, 07:25 AM
Here is a popular mechanics article from a few years back (http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_improvement/home_owner_clinic/1275486.html)

I've heard of that system and although I haven't used it myself, I believe it works as advertised. Here's a schematic of it.

http://www.watertanks.com/drawing/2787/category/271/product/0531-002/

LawnScapers of Dayton
06-14-2006, 08:09 AM
The tank is designed for residential water use and every well system has one. So storing water is not an issue. The longest water would sit would be over night...... If you take a 10 minute shower at 2GPM you have used 20 gal. in the tank. There is constant turnover....

D

PJDiesel
06-14-2006, 08:15 AM
The tank is designed for residential water use and every well system has one. So storing water is not an issue. The longest water would sit would be over night...... If you take a 10 minute shower at 2GPM you have used 20 gal. in the tank. There is constant turnover....

D

This is correct. I have owned two homes on well water, the last one I re-worked the entire system. I used a monster 86 gallon tank as stated in an earlier post. This is about the only way you are going to insure some kind of pressure. Once water is used, it is instantly replaced by more, so the idea of "sitting" water is not an issue to my knowledge.

ken0564
06-14-2006, 12:02 PM
what city?
how old is the home?
you likely will have a pressure reducing valve(PRV) soon after the water service enters the home (again, depending on the age of home). the factory preset is 65-75psi if i recall correctly. it can be adjusted up with caution to 85-90psi, again, if i recall correctly. i ain't a plumber, but went through similar issue.

This should be done with caution,too much pressure can potentially cause damage to fixtures inside the home. It's a simple fix with the turn of a screw but if you are not familiar with it i recommend getting a plumber.

someone else stated earlier that one spigot may have more pressure then the other(s). the spigot with the greater pressure will likely be close to where the service enters the home. the reason it has greater pressure is because it branches off before the reducing valve, thus giving you the pressure off the street.

if pressure from the street is an issue, i would call the city or whoever manages your water authority. they can check to insure you are getting the proper pressure to begin with. some authorities have backflow valves installed at the meters, if this valve fails, it could effect the pressure sent to your home from the street.

sorry for the length but i hope it helps. PM me if you like, i'd like to know what you end up with. ken.

LarryF
06-14-2006, 12:39 PM
how old is the home?
you likely will have a pressure reducing valve(PRV)....................

ken.

Ken has made some good points, but not every home with city water has a PRV. But every one has a shut off valve on each side of the meter. These are usually so-called "gate valves", and if not opened all the way will restrict the water flow and therefore the pressure if too many faucets are opened simultaneously. You have probably already checked the simplest things first and made sure both these valves are all the way open, but since you didn't say you did, maybe it's worthwhile to ask. Are they?

fulano
06-14-2006, 02:50 PM
I just ordered the ebay one I lined to earlier in the post and will let you know how it works in a couple of weeks.

North Ga
06-14-2006, 02:58 PM
what city?
how old is the home?
you likely will have a pressure reducing valve(PRV) soon after the water service enters the home (again, depending on the age of home). the factory preset is 65-75psi if i recall correctly. it can be adjusted up with caution to 85-90psi, again, if i recall correctly. i ain't a plumber, but went through similar issue.

This should be done with caution,too much pressure can potentially cause damage to fixtures inside the home. It's a simple fix with the turn of a screw but if you are not familiar with it i recommend getting a plumber.

someone else stated earlier that one spigot may have more pressure then the other(s). the spigot with the greater pressure will likely be close to where the service enters the home. the reason it has greater pressure is because it branches off before the reducing valve, thus giving you the pressure off the street.

if pressure from the street is an issue, i would call the city or whoever manages your water authority. they can check to insure you are getting the proper pressure to begin with. some authorities have backflow valves installed at the meters, if this valve fails, it could effect the pressure sent to your home from the street.

sorry for the length but i hope it helps. PM me if you like, i'd like to know what you end up with. ken


Im in Chatsworth,Ga Ken.Its about 45 min south of Chatt,Tn.The house is about 2 1/2 years old.We bought it brand new.

I just got back from underneath the house.Im no expert so Ill do my best to explain what I got.Theres a Light blue(its called light blue pex) 3/4 line coming into the house from the meter.Its connects or branches off to a 4 way.The line that goes left is a very dark blue one that looks to be a 3/4 inch also,it goes all the way down the lenth of the house and has 1/2 inch connectors pipes(called Super pex) that tees off to the bathrooms and hot water heater.The 2 other ones ,one going right and straight are 1/2 inch connector pipes that goes to one of my outside spickets and the kitchen.NO Pressure reducing valve from what ive seen.It wouldnt be underground,right?

Thanks again for the help.

North Ga
06-14-2006, 03:03 PM
Ken has made some good points, but not every home with city water has a PRV. But every one has a shut off valve on each side of the meter. These are usually so-called "gate valves", and if not opened all the way will restrict the water flow and therefore the pressure if too many faucets are opened simultaneously. You have probably already checked the simplest things first and made sure both these valves are all the way open, but since you didn't say you did, maybe it's worthwhile to ask. Are they?


Larry,Just got back from the water meter.One of them dont look like I can open or close,.I think its for the water meter guys only.Looks like it uses a special type of tool,but by looking at it it looks like its opened all the way.The other one is opened up all the way(the red knob is running paralle to the water line)

fulano
06-14-2006, 03:12 PM
As a side note you can call your water co and have them test your pressure usually free and they may offer some type of solution.

North Ga
06-14-2006, 03:33 PM
As a side note you can call your water co and have them test your pressure usually free and they may offer some type of solution.

Thanks,I just gave them a call.They said they would send somebody out thursday.She asked me did i get a letter for a reducing valve,said they was gonna start getting more water from another city(calhoun) in sept. therefore increasing the water pressure,thats good news :cool2:

dfischer
06-15-2006, 12:27 AM
Bigger pipes will just reduce your pressure? Respectfully, I, and I think the entire damn water industry, disagree. Might you have been thinking of the direct relationship of flow to pressure and confused that with pipe diameter.

More pipe diameter equals less pressure loss

In any any, here's a pretty darn good website.

http://www.irrigationtutorials.com/

ken0564
06-15-2006, 12:50 AM
Ken has made some good points, but not every home with city water has a PRV. But every one has a shut off valve on each side of the meter. These are usually so-called "gate valves", and if not opened all the way will restrict the water flow and therefore the pressure if too many faucets are opened simultaneously. You have probably already checked the simplest things first and made sure both these valves are all the way open, but since you didn't say you did, maybe it's worthwhile to ask. Are they?


failed to mention those. thanks for covering LF.

ken0564
06-15-2006, 01:05 AM
Im in Chatsworth,Ga Ken.Its about 45 min south of Chatt,Tn.The house is about 2 1/2 years old.We bought it brand new.

I just got back from underneath the house.Im no expert so Ill do my best to explain what I got.Theres a Light blue(its called light blue pex) 3/4 line coming into the house from the meter.Its connects or branches off to a 4 way.The line that goes left is a very dark blue one that looks to be a 3/4 inch also,it goes all the way down the lenth of the house and has 1/2 inch connectors pipes(called Super pex) that tees off to the bathrooms and hot water heater.The 2 other ones ,one going right and straight are 1/2 inch connector pipes that goes to one of my outside spickets and the kitchen.NO Pressure reducing valve from what ive seen.It wouldnt be underground,right?

Thanks again for the help.


yep, know where you are. surprised no PRV with home only 2.5 yr old.

Nope, or at least no, it shouldn't be underground. though i have heard of them underground within first few feet before line enters home. Usually with crawl space, after service enters home, within first two feet or less, supply line will go into a valve, likely brass (it resembles a spinning top:dizzy: ) just not spinning. maybe that's not the best description but it's all i can think of. anyway, you would definitely not miss it.

Just buddy up with the city guy tomorrow, he will likely look at it and give pointers. Problem may turn out to be low pressure from street, which is just the system your supplied by. You mentioned they're going to tie in with Calhoun so this could be very possible.

One additional note, you mentioned the service line coming in was blue. When your asking city or plumber question them about this also. You don't want to find out you have blue polybutylene (sp). That's the pipe that was used in late 80's, 90's that created so many problems. YOu should be in the clear on this though with a 2.5 yr young home.

Let us know. Ken.

Sargosailor
06-15-2006, 02:48 PM
DRM, if your bladder tank is at 50psi and city pressure is 40psi, how will the water flow into the tank?
Sammy

North Ga
06-15-2006, 03:24 PM
The city water guy came out but unfornatley I was gone running an erand.I had to call the water company to see what my PSI was.Was hoping to be there so I could ask him more questions,oh well.

I have 48 PSI.Thats pretty good i guess for being on a hill?

I have no problem with my water pressure UNTIL something else is turned on in the house.Does everybodys house with a 48 PSI have this same problem?

Mic_bug
06-15-2006, 05:08 PM
larger pipes will only drop your pressure, wying hoses together will not help..pressure is still the same.....and wying 2 -5/8" hoses into 1 -5/8" hose with the same pressure will not increase pressure or volume.

A pressure tank would be the easiest way. It is a tank that has an air bladder in it that creates higher water pressure. I have a 86 gallon one that give me 50-70 PSI on a well. You will have to run the city water into the tank and feed the house from that, there is more to it than that but that is the basics...


Derek


Merging two 1/2'' dia. hoses will give you more volue equivalant to a 3/4'' hose, but with constant pressure. Assuming you tap from the front and rear spigots, coming off different branches off the main (usually is).

Else..if it had no effect...why use 3/4' pipe at all ( don't want to lose pressure).


At least is a cheap check to verify what the situation is.
Most of us have a couple of hoses lying aroung to verify this.

fulano
06-15-2006, 08:58 PM
I have 40psi at my 2 story house on a hill. That is at the faucet closest to the street outside. The back yard hose has about 24-30psi. When the water is turned on elsewhere in the house the psi drops a lot. I'm hoping the pump can take care of my problem.

LawnScapers of Dayton
06-15-2006, 09:01 PM
DRM, if your bladder tank is at 50psi and city pressure is 40psi, how will the water flow into the tank?
Sammy


as I have never used a pressure tank with a municipal water supply....my guess is some sort of pump to push the water into the tank....but then you don't necesarily need the tank....

Hmmmm

D

jeffinsgf
06-16-2006, 08:51 AM
I have a similar problem on my well system. 48psi is fine. The problem is the lines running to your outside faucet are too small and/or too long. I have 50 psi and 20 gpm at my well head (that's a pretty strong supply). Yet, my master bath shower is feeble. I don't have any facts to back this up, but I think the plastic pipe is part of the problem. I don't think the 1/2 inch pec can carry the same volume of water that 1/2 inch copper can. When the pec came into common usage, I think plumbers assumed that piping a house with it was just like piping one with copper.

Take a five gallon bucket and go to the faucet that is closest to your water entrance. Time how long it takes to fill the five gallons. If it takes 15 seconds, you have a flow rate of 20 gpm. If it takes 20 seconds, you have a flow rate of 15 gpm. If you now test that at the faucet furthest from your entrance, and compare the two, you'll have an idea of how efficient your plumbing tree is. Mine is pitiful and is going to get some reworking.

dfischer
06-16-2006, 09:56 AM
North Ga:

You really need to look at the link I showed you. It's amazing, and covering it all would take a book in here AND be a bit redundant.

DRM's advise of a bladder tank is a tiny bit incorrect. They don't boost pressure at all. They're a store of pressure so the pump behind them (his well pump in his case) doesn't run everytime someone runs water. Otherwise you'd wear out a pump rather quickly. More, it wouldn't help you w/o a booster pump. Again, no energy added (electric pump) no increase in anything.

I have exactly 48 (static) psi coming into my house. No real issues, and drop to 38 psi when flowing 30 gpm. I too am looking at boosting water pressure (why I know about the website I keep telling you to read), but that's mostly over my desire to add an irrigation system. I would like to get to 65 psi in the house, and it's part of my design goals.

W/ 3/4 pex coming in you'll be limited (as you will learn if you go read the site) in what you can do. Not a lot of real water flow capabiliity. btw, the size of the water pipes in your house will make a real difference, and so will you water meter.

If you've 48 psi static you're not really in that bad a shape. You might want to focus on why the apparent drop (you mention you too find the water pressure adequate until you turn on more then one thing) in flow capability in the house. I and stress flow, as you can't add pressure ( wo more energy), but then you can't loose it without friction loss etc.. Like I say, I only drop 10 psi and that's while flowing 30 gpm. As you'll soon enough find, that's a hell of lot of water flowing. You won't be able to get anywhere near that.

In all likelyhood you're going to find 1/2" water pipes in the house, that'll be the problem, and one that can't really be fixed. 3/4" would have had much less pressure drop (another of those DRM miss-statements. pipe size directly affects pressure available, but he thinks it doesn't)

btw, 48 psi... I say you're in a town w/muncipal water running off a water tower.

So:

bladder is no answer wo/pump. Read the site. Look into what's restricting the flow inside the house. Start realizing you'll probably need a pump to fix this. I would budget $400 to fix it if you can plumb, $600 if you can't. Assume that's $250 for a pump, $150 for a 82 gallon tank.

Finally, there is a kinda half answer consumer product out there that might work out well in your case. Flotecs "pressure mate, FP5418, as I recall. $229 on close-out at farm and fleet (if you have any) $300 normally. They don't flow a lot of water, (but more then you'll have coming in w 3/4" pex) and I don't much care for the 40 psi boost (you'd be at 88 static, and that's a bit high), but I know several in my area that have them and like them. Since we're starting w/similar base pressure, you too might like it.

need mower
06-16-2006, 09:58 AM
the oscillating sprinkler goes from a 9 foot tall sprinkler to about a 5 foot sprinkler from bottom to top.


Let me jump in this. I spent ten years as a fireman and most of that time studying watter flow. Pressure and volume and not the same thing, however pressure does effect volume. Pressure = pressure (size of the pipe doesn't mater) unless you remove more volume than the pump (city supply) can resupply. Or we can say it this way. If you are using more watter (volume) than can be supplied to your home at a given pressure your pressure will drop.
But your problem with the sprinkler could also be caused by the lack of volume not pressure. If there is not enough volume (to many people using watter) it will do the same thing. Try the Y with two hoses it is the cheapest solution to your problem. Make sure you put the Y at the sprinkler and run two hoses to it. This will give you the most flow or volume however you want to say it.

need mower
06-16-2006, 10:10 AM
the oscillating sprinkler goes from a 9 foot tall sprinkler to about a 5 foot sprinkler from bottom to top.


Let me jump in this. I spent ten years as a fireman and most of that time studying watter flow. Pressure and volume and not the same thing, however pressure does effect volume. Pressure = pressure (size of the pipe doesn't mater) unless you remove more volume than the pump (city supply) can resupply. Or we can say it this way. If you are using more watter (volume) than can be supplied to your home at a given pressure your pressure will drop.
But your problem with the sprinkler could also be caused by the lack of volume not pressure. If there is not enough volume (to many people using watter) it will do the same thing. Try the Y with two hoses it is the cheapest solution to your problem. Make sure you put the Y at the sprinkler and run two hoses to it. This will give you the most flow or volume however you want to say it.

fulano
06-16-2006, 12:07 PM
What are you guys with higher than around 50psi doing about appliances with ratings of 50psi?

dfischer
06-16-2006, 12:20 PM
NGa:


Thought about this a few more minutes. It may not be as bad as it sounds. Initially I though you had ¾” PEX as the water main. On more careful reading, you’ve said you’ve got it coming in from the meter. If worse comes to worse, that could be changed.

You really need to ask the water guy what the CTE (copper tube equivalency) is of the water main coming to the meter. And you’d best hope it ain’t 3/4 “, or you’re in trouble.

More then likely it’ll be 1” or more, and the guy that did you’re inside plumbing just screwed you over a bit. Damn spec home builders. Probably want to ask what size meter you have too.

Anyway, now that you’ve read the site I’ve talked about, you know that ¾” PEX can only flow 11 GPM., and to do that it’s moving pretty fast. Not a bunch. You’re going to run out of water fast.

You also need to find out how much pressure the pex system is rated to handle. Can it take 90 PSI? If so, that Flotec pressure mate is probably as good a solution as you’re gonna find. I consider it a bit flow rate limited (call and ask them for the flow rate vs psi table to be faxed to you), but you and I have really different water systems in our house.

If not, or if you want a better solution, you need to get more like 1” copper pipe coming in from the meter (assuming the main to it is at least 1” CTE). That should get you safely in to 20 GPM point, and from there a storage tank and booster pump will work wonders for you.

I’m sure you’ve already figured this out, but you need to consider what qty of devices you want to run at once, and @ what pressure. If you want to run 2 sprinklers, a shower, be able to flush the toilet, and let a washer run all at once you’re going to need roughly 15-20 gpm. As you’ve mentioned, you find 48 psi adequate until other things start, so assume your target is 50 psi and 15 gpm. The internal distrbuton system is killing you, but pressure can help overcome things a bit. So, maybe target more like a 40/60 (highest easy to get standard tank switch.) booster range.

So:

If you’ve got more mainline coming it it will make things much better, otherwise you’re gonna be limited to 2-4 things running at once (depends on what they are, right?). In any event you’ll need a pressure pump set for 40/60, and some kind of storage tank to keep the pump from thrashing.