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ChellaJ
06-14-2006, 02:49 PM
We live in Central Indiana and just purchased our home last November. At the time we closed, the hydroseed did not take and the weeds were taking over. We have been told on 5 occasions that the subcontractor was going to regrade our back lawn and hydroseed. This still has not happened. It is now getting so hot. I know it is not the best time of the year to seed. What I need to know is how to take care of the seeding if and when they ever get it done. We also want to overseed and can wait until fall for this. What should we do to help the hydroseed take?

muddstopper
06-14-2006, 09:20 PM
There is no such thing as hydroseed that doesnt take. There are numerous wrong ways to hydroseed. There are also numerous other ways that people seed that are also wrong. Some people that get into the hydroseeding business think all you have to do is mix seed and water and spray it on and somehow it will magicly grow. The same can be said for other seeding methods as well and, a lot of homeowners seem to have the same thoughts.

To get a stand of grass you cant simply spray it or broadcast it on the ground and think it will grow. A soil test should be the first step before any seeding method it chosen. After the test results come back you can then prep the area to be seeded and incorporate the amendments into the soil. The soil will act as a buffer against the harmful effects of the salts in fertilizers. After incorporating the amendments, level and rake the area smooth and then you are ready to seed. If you are broadcast seeding, simply broadcast the seed in two different directions for good even coverage, then rake lightly to insure good seed to soil contact. If the area is subject to erosion straw can be used to help protect the seed. Straw isnt necessary as long as a good irrigation system is installed and the irrigation isnt applied to the point of causing runoff. Straw does help hold moisture and does provide some protection to the seed. If irrigation isnt available, then straw, or a similar mulching material should be considered a mandantory requirement.

If the area is being hydroseeded, the same rules apply. If irrigation is present, then low or no mulch rates will be required. the advantage hydroseeding has over broadcasting or slit seeding is that it is easier and faster to apply and you get more uniform seed distribution. Another advantage is that special tackifiers can be added to the slurry to help prevent erosion.

After the seed has been applied, watering is the next step to insuring fast grass establishment. For the first 2 to 3 weeks, watering should be frequent and lite. Never to the point of runnoff or puddleing. Watering should not be done in the late hours of the evening as some drying out of the soil is necessary to allow oxygen to get to the seed. Watering at nite also increases the chance of fungal diseases. After 2 to 3 weeks the grass should be ready for the first mowing. Letting the grass get to long before the first mowing will insure a thin and spotty lawn. For cool season grasses the first mowing should be when the grass reaches a height of 3 to 4 inches and mowed no lower than 2 inchs. Be sure to use sharp blades to prevent the mower from pulling the grass out by its short and fragil roots. Future mowing should be at the desired height that you wish to maintain your lawn. After the first mowing, the watering schedule should also be changed to less frequently and more heavily, but never let the soil dry and crack. In 6 to 8 weeks, the grass should be sufficently established that watering only one or two times a week will keep the lawn growing. Some additional fertilizer might need to be applied at this time, but forget trying to rush things by using large doses of high nitrogen fertilizer, it will only create more problems.

ChellaJ
06-14-2006, 10:26 PM
Thanks Muddstopper,

As far as testing the soil and having it prepped, I will have little to no say in the matter. The subcontractor will just come out and do what they've done to every other yard in the development. Turn the soil over, rake it even, and blow the seed.

Do you think the seed will still be O.K. with the hot weather? We can water per your recommendations and we can overseed too. I'm just really concerned that they've strung us along too far and now we'll never have a chance getting a nice lush yard.

dfischer
06-15-2006, 01:17 AM
No, it will die. Hate to be blunt, but some research on this site into past threads will show you an overwhelming concensus - Seed in the fall. Early spring only if you must. Never in mid summer.

A newly seeded yard will die. You will go nuts trying to keep it alive.

Probably both.

btw, you should at least spend 40 bucks and go buy a soil test kit. At bare minimum go get a $20 PH meter.

Splicer
06-15-2006, 09:57 AM
This was seeded early May:

Splicer
06-15-2006, 09:59 AM
5 weeks later with watering 15-20 minutes/morning:clapping: :weightlifter: :cool2: :headphones: :usflag: :

Splicer
06-15-2006, 10:05 AM
Seed quality is very important as is the fert to get it established...If you religiously water DAILY there is NO reason new seeding won't take and keep...but you MUST be faithful and diligent with the watering...I just saw the entrance to a new subdivision be hydro'd with NO water (sprinklers or otherwise) and MAYBE 2 light rainfalls come in beautifully...

If everyone waited to seed only in the fall there would be alot of dirt/mud around these new homes being built...Just remember...due diligence will reward you 100 times over...

TURF DOCTOR
06-15-2006, 10:10 AM
He's right water and starter fert will help.

ChellaJ
06-15-2006, 10:50 AM
Thank you all so much for your help. We have been asking for almost 2 months for this to get done. This morning they are finally out there turning over the nasty weeds and raking it. The other yards have taken the hydroseed well. But they were seeding in late April. We will water and then overseed this fall.

I guess I'm off to find some fertilizer!

muddstopper
06-15-2006, 04:00 PM
Before you buy and apply fertilizer, ask the hydroseeding contractor what kind and how much, if any fertilizer he is already ading to the slurry. One of the worse things you could do would be to apply additional fertilizers if the contractor has already used fertilizer on your lawn. If they havent already seeded your lawn, you can still take a soil test and have plenty of time to get the results back before you will need to apply the fert. Seed doesnt need any fertilizer to germinate anyhow. Here is a partial list of some good soil testing labs.

ABC ORGANICS Crop Research Foundation
P.O. Box 967
Camarillo, CA 93011
805-675-8747
Contact: Johnny Agulia
admin@abcorganics.com
www.abcorganics.com

ABC ORGANICS provides several different quantitative soil tests that determine the nutritional status of soils. Base saturation/CEC soil test, organic matter, and nutrient analysis; organic fertilizer recommendations.

Ag Resource Consulting, Inc.
P.O. Box 667 / 131 5th Street
Albany, MN 56307
320-845-6321
320-845-6320 Fax
Contact: Glen Borgerding
glenbarc@albanytel.com

Base saturation/CEC soil test, organic matter, nutrient analysis, organic fertilizer recommendations, manure testing, and nutrient management plans.

Agri-Energy Resources
21417 1950E St.
Princeton, IL 61356
815-872-1190
815-872-1928 Fax
aer@starband.net
www.agrienergy.net

Complete soil test, Base saturation/CEC, LaMotte extract method. Fertilizer recommendations based on ideas from Albrecht, Reams, and the late founder of Agri-Energy Resources, Dave Larson. Interpreting Your Soil Test is a 4-page leaflet explaining the Agri-Energy Resources soil analysis report.

Albion Laboratories, Inc.
101 N. Main Street
Clearfield, UT 84015
800-453-2406
801-773-4631
801-773-4633 Fax
Contact: Kevin Dickenson
sales@albionlabs.com
www.albionlabs.com

Base saturation/CEC soil test, organic matter, nutrient analysis, organic fertilizer recommendations. Field agronomists work individually with growers to design soil management programs.

A&L Analytical Laboratories
2790 Whitten Road
Memphis, TN 38133
800-264-4522
901-213-2400
901-243-2440 Fax
www.al-labs.com

Base saturation/CEC soil test, organic matter, nutrient analysis. Microbial analysis offered as an option. Organic fertilizer recommendations available on request. Six locations in the United States (TN, IN, VA, TX, CA, OR, FL, IA) . The A&L Agronomy Handbook ($6.00) is a noteworthy 132-page soil and plant analysis manual.

Bio-Systems
2724 Lamotte Street
Marlette, MI 48453
517-635-2864
517-635-3888
Contact: Joe Scrimger
bio-systems@centurytel.net

Soil tests include base saturation/CEC as well as the LaMotte extract method. Fertilizer recommendations based on ideas from Albrecht, Reams, and Joe Scrimger.

Brookside Analytical Laboratories
308 South Main Street
New Knoxville, OH 45871
419-753-2448
419-753-2949 Fax
Contact: Mark Flock
info@blinc.com
www.blinc.com

Base saturation/CEC soil test, organic matter, and nutrient analysis. Brookside conducts soil tests on behalf of its network of crop advisors and agronomists who work directly with farmers, perform soil tests, and design soil management programs. Soil test reports follow the style developed by Dr. William Albrecht. Contact Brookside for a list of crop advisors in your region.

Cook's Consulting
RD 2, Box 13
Lowville, NY 13367
315-376-3002
Contact: Peg Cook
pegcook@cooksagconsulting.com
www.lcida.org/cooks.html

Base saturation/CEC soil test, organic matter, and nutrient analysis using the LaMotte photometric system. Noteworthy publications include "Common Sense" Crop Production and "Common Sense" Market Farm Production, $25 each.

Crop Services International Inc.
1718 Madison S.E.
Grand Rapids, MI 49507-2518
616-246-7933
616-246-6039 Fax
Contact: Dr. Phil Wheeler
drdirt@cropservicesintl.com
www.cropservicesintl.com

Soil tests include LaMotte, CEC, Humus, paramagnetism, and scanner (radionics). Fertilizer recommendations based on ideas from Albrecht, Reams, Callahan, and Phil Wheeler.

International Ag Labs, Inc.
P.O. Box 788
Fairmont, MN 56031
507-235-6909
507-235-9155 Fax
Contact: Dr. Dan Skow, Wendell Owens
ilab@rconnect.com
www.aglabs.com

Soil tests include the LaMotte extract for nutrient analysis, humus, and formazon dehydrogenase (biological activity). Fertilizer recommendations based on ideas from Reams and Dan Skow. Seminars offered on Reams Biological Theory of Ionization. Soil Testing for Biological Agriculture is an 18-page booklet on their soil test report and fertilizer recommendation guidelines.

K-Ag Laboratories International, Inc.
2323 Jackson St.
Oshkosh, WI 54901
920-426-0002
920-426-2664 Fax
Contact: Dr. Akhtar Khwaja
info@kaglab.com
www.kaglab.com

K-Ag Lab conducts a range of soil tests, provides organic farming recommendations, and works with specialty crops such as blueberries, cranberries, ginseng, vegetables, herbs, and black walnuts.

Kinsey's Agricultural Services
297 County Highway 357
Charleston, MO 63834
573-683-3880
573-683-6227 Fax
Contact: Neal Kinsey
neal@kinseyag.com
www.kinseyag.com

Base saturation/CEC soil test, organic matter, and nutrient analysis. Fertilizer recommendations based on ideas from Albrecht and Neal Kinsey.

Midwest Laboratories
1361 B. Street
Omaha, NE 68144
402-334-7770
402-334-9121 Fax
www.midwestlabs.com

Soil test provides nutrient analysis, percent organic matter, and base saturation/CEC numbers, but fertilizer guidelines are standard pounds of nutrients required per acre. The website provides helpful information leaflets on soil, water, and environmental topics (see Midwest Memos).

Midwestern Bio-Ag
10851 Hwy ID, Box 160
Blue Mounds, WI 53517
800-327-6012
608-437-4994
608-437-4441 Fax
Contact: Gary Zimmer
bioag@mhtc.net
www.midwesternbioag.com

Base saturation/CEC soil test, organic matter, and nutrient analysis. Fertilizer recommendations based on ideas from Albrecht and Gary Zimmer. Midwestern Bio-Ag publishes a number of informative booklets, books, audio tapes, and videos. The Soil Nutrition Handbook is a 130-page training manual with guidelines for understanding soils, soil reports, and fertilizer guidelines for biological farming.

Organic Food Matters
741 S. Yates Road
Memphis, TN 38120-2820
901-684-1046
901-684-1949 Fax
Contact: Jeptha Gates

Soil tests based on the Lamotte method. Fertilizer recommendations based on ideas from Reams, Andersen, and Jeptha Gates.

Peaceful Valley Farm Supply
P.O. Box 2209
Grass Valley, CA 95945
888-784-1722
916-272-4769
916-272-4794 Fax
www.groworganic.com

The Basic Soil Test includes: organic matter, estimated biologically released nitrogen, nitrate nitrogen, available and reserve phosphorus, exchangeable potassium, magnesium, calcium and sodium, soil pH, hydrogen, CEC, base saturation, sulfur, zinc, free lime, and soluble salts. Know Your Soil: A Handbook for Understanding Your Soil Test Report ($20) is a 15-page booklet by Amigo Bob Cantisano on soil test interpretation combined with organic soil management guidelines.

Terra Labs, Inc.
6073 State Route 219
Celina, OH 45822
419-268-2294
Contact: Keldon Colvin
terralab@bright.net

Base saturation/CEC soil test, organic matter, and nutrient analysis advocated by Dr. Rudy Ozolins. Fertilizer recommendations based on ideas from Albrecht and Ozolins.

Texas Plant & Soil Lab, Inc.
5115 W. Monte Cristo
Edinburg, TX 78539
956-383-0739
956-383-0730 Fax
Contact: Esper K. Chandler
info@txplant-soillab.com
www.txplant-soillab.com

TPSL uses carbon dioxide as part of its natural soil test method to extract soil nutrients; it mimics natural conditions in soils to determine what would be available to plant roots. Fertilizer recommendations based on ideas from Albrecht and Esper K. Chandler. Commonly used by Texas organic growers.

Timberleaf Soil Testing
39648 Old Spring Road
Murrieta, CA 92563
909-677-7510
Contact: Bob Russo

The Timberleaf soil test was developed especially for market gardeners who practice the biointensive approach made popular by John Jeavons, author of How to Grow More Vegetables... The Basic Soil Test includes base saturation/CEC, estimated nitrogen release, available nutrients, pH, and soluble salts. Optional tests exist for organic matter, trace minerals, and composts/greenhouse media. Timberleaf provides a detailed soil test report that contains soil test report data as well as explanations and recommendations for organic fertilization.

University of Maine Soil Testing Service
5722 Deering Hall
Orono, ME 04469-5722
207-581-2945
207-581-2934 Fax
http://anlab.umesci.maine.edu

Base saturation/CEC soil test, organic matter, and nutrient analysis. Compost analysis on request. Organic fertilizer recommendations available on request. Commonly used by Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners (MOFGA). Publications on website: Soil Testing Handbook for Professionals in Agriculture and Commercial Organic Nutrient Recommendations.

blaze347
06-16-2006, 07:37 PM
Seed quality is very important as is the fert to get it established...If you religiously water DAILY there is NO reason new seeding won't take and keep...but you MUST be faithful and diligent with the watering...I just saw the entrance to a new subdivision be hydro'd with NO water (sprinklers or otherwise) and MAYBE 2 light rainfalls come in beautifully...

If everyone waited to seed only in the fall there would be alot of dirt/mud around these new homes being built...Just remember...due diligence will reward you 100 times over...


Splicer, seed will come up that of the year...that's true,but your germination rates are almost cut in half because of the temperatures and lack of water. NO ONE can keep a newly seeded yard moist enough in the middle of summer to have optimal germination. Secondly, you have to much competition from weeds this time of year to get optimal growth from your new seedlings. The weeds are taking the moisture and nutrients, not to mention "blocking" the sunlight from getting to the seedlings. I totally agree with Mudstopper, wait until the fall. Research has shown fall to be much more effective. More effective=less money and time.

The reason that contractors seed in the middle of summer on newly built homes is because the escrow won't be released and the homeowner will not be able to close until EVERYTHING is completed.

Chella, if you want a beautiful lush yard, wait until around August 25th-Sept 10th to seed your yard. I live in Indiana, and these are "our" optimal times to seed. Purdue University has a great website in regards to grass, fertilizers,seeding,etc.. It will tell you in depth everything you need to know. Hope this helps!!!

ChellaJ
06-17-2006, 03:20 PM
Thanks Blaze347. Unfortunatley, I have no say in when they will seed. The subcontractor makes this decision. We had "preseed" laid on Thursday and will receive hydroseed on Monday. Our only thoughts are to apply a good overseed this fall during the dates you mentioned.

I did see the Purdue website. We will follow their advice when we overseed.

Thank you all for your help!

All Season Bill
06-21-2006, 12:37 PM
ChellaJ
Since you're seeding in the summer just expect weeds and crabgrass. But that's ok because the main concern is growing grass this year. You'll have to wait for next year to tweak it for weeds and pre emergent.
I'm about 50 miles east of you, so we have similar weather.
Remember three things water water water!