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thepawnshop
06-15-2006, 11:13 PM
I have an area that is 200' wide and has soil that is approximately 12' high and needs to be moved about 175'. I was going to get an Deere 655 track loader to move the material, but a good frien of mine suggested using a dozer for the task. I would be using a Deere 750 if I go that way.

Does a dozer sound like a better fit for this task?

Gravel Rat
06-16-2006, 12:34 AM
Thats alot of material to move a dozer could do it but its not going to beable to push that much material that easy. You might be better off with a excavator and a truck or couple trucks. You can get on top of the material and start scooping and loading trucks. What is the soil is it hard and compact or is it loose is this overburden your trying to move ?

A contractor friend of the familly is taking on a job they have to remove about the same depth you have to remove but it covers almost a acre of land. They are using one excavator and two 30 ton articulated trucks.

If you had a carry dozer like a D-8 that would move the material quick a regular dozer is gonna have to take that off in lifts.

Without pictures its hard to tell you what kind of ideas we can give :)

thepawnshop
06-16-2006, 12:41 AM
My friend thinks he can do it in 6" lifts and can be done within three days. I'll take some pics tomorrow. It is actually my personal lot that I am building our new house on. The lot is a dog, but I plan on making it at least into a show dog.

Due to road limitations, a D6 size machine is the largest we can get back there.

Even though it is my personal property, I can't jutify the articulated trucks. The reason we are only moving it a short distance is because my lot drops off in the back and we are going to fill that area in with this material, which by the way, is very powdery...not much clay or rock.

I already have a 120 size machine on the site and will have it for a few more weeks. We also have JD CTL 332 and 322 on site as well.

Squizzy246B
06-16-2006, 01:10 AM
G,day Doug, we just knocked out about 1400 yd3's the same distance you are talking to level a 1 & 1/2 acre lot. We used a 938 loader and did the push out in two days. Now, and I know this take some understanding for those who don't have broad experience; but digging/pushing the sand out is hard going because you lack traction...so its no faster than a lot of other stuff. Loam is the best because you can put the power down.

My choice would be the track loader and push as you would with the dozer. Anytime your pushing downhill you will move stuff faster than any other method (save for blasting) for comparitive sized machines. And...and some will laugh...but if you had say 4 days to burn...you will shift a sh*tload of material with your little tracked JD. We once pushed out over 450 yd3 in a day with a RC 100 and it wasn't so hard.

Good Luck..just my HO

Gravel Rat
06-16-2006, 01:30 AM
If time isn't a issue then you can work your way at it with a smaller machine. If you had a 963 Cat sized track loader you should beable to scoop and travel with the material. The 963 I ran last year would take a good bucket full with ease which is surprising the machine was well worn. It dug better than the backhoe the track loader kept pushing.

You can use a excavator with a clean up bucket and chuck the material that will take a long time but its another option.

Why don't you sell some of the material is it good topsoil or is it mixed dirt you could get 80 dollars per 12 yard load.

tylermckee
06-16-2006, 02:01 AM
Just get the dozer and start pushing, it wont take you that long, you'll be amazed at the amount of material you can push in a day

Construct'O
06-16-2006, 11:46 AM
Doug loaders are loaders they do best for loading that is why they call them loaders.

Dozers are dozers that is why they are called dozers.Since i have used dozer for 31 years i'm a dozer fan.So i like using dozers and they are more universial then people on here think.

Start dozing in a slat that way the dirt isn't running around you blade so bad cut the full length of your building pad.Get it down to the grade you want, then move over and start another slat.

If you wanted you could use your ctl to clean up the loose dirt or cut out the edge between slats.

Getting the slat down to the right grade makes it easy to know where you are then all you have to do is use that cut to go by for the next slat.

If your site is 200' you could cut one on each of the outsides and one through the middle then all you have to do is cut the dirt out in between the graded slat.Saves you time checking thing and getting off the machine wondering if you down to where you need to be.

If your just leveling the lot it isn't as bad as building site where it has to be down to the tenths.

So with that good luck !!!!!!!!!!

janb
06-16-2006, 02:20 PM
I might as well jump in too... Trackloaders can push quite a large volume of soft stuff with bucket, I often use the 4:1 as a metered scaper (open slightly) it just keeps rolling the dirt in front of you when bucket fills. I have very grippy street pads, worn out ones can lose traction (or mine too, in mud...)

Another advantage is that you can use as loader when necessary, and with creative cutting, they can contour pretty well too. 4:1 with teeth makes a good 'combo' digger / finish machine. (they are usually easier to find and cheaper to rent than 6-way dozer... but they are a bit 'dated...') See if you can find a 650 or 850 Case; the proportional steering (powered clutches, not brakes) is very fast and effective when pushing heavy loads on loose ground.

murray83
06-16-2006, 04:22 PM
that 750 and 120 hoe is all you need.

also the larger the dozer the easier it is to grade.

mastercraft
06-16-2006, 05:40 PM
A Deere 750 is a big powerfull dozer. You should have no trouble whatsoever moving that dirt. Just set up some slots as mentioned and you will be good to go!

Tigerotor77W
06-16-2006, 08:38 PM
Something makes me think the 750 is a little small in terms of the material moved -- while the Cat D6R (not D6N) will move material faster than the 850, both the 850 and 750 will be easier to control (unless the D6R has the MVP -- it would have to be BRAND new to have that).

Would an 850 be feasible on the site for size and operating cost concerns?

thepawnshop
06-16-2006, 10:25 PM
Right now I have the 120 rented, as well as a 655. I'll post a couple pics after tomorrow so you all can see what two CTL's, a track loader and a 120 can get done!

thepawnshop
06-16-2006, 10:41 PM
I only have the 655 for the weekend, so let's hope to see a world of difference come Monday....

Gravel Rat
06-16-2006, 11:24 PM
If thats the earth you have to move thats behind the house foundation I would be using the excavator I wouldn't temp using dozer. Use the excavator and start bailing the material back. It looks like fairly easy digging a clean up bucket should dig that.

It may take you a few times of moving piles but if the material should be loose enough you could move the material with the CTL.

I did go down and read that you only have the trackloader its going to be tougher a excavator would be nicer to work with.

tylermckee
06-17-2006, 12:35 AM
so what are you doing, cutting into that hillside, and throwing the material off to another side of the foundation?

Duramax8832
06-17-2006, 12:36 AM
Id have an operator in all of those machines on site and go to town.. Up here in Ma I would not even know where to go to find a track loader. Even the large dozers D6 D8 and up are getting pretty scarce. Myself id bring in the ex 300 and 400 and get bailing, maybe even the articulated trucks. Then just buff it out with the D3.

tylermckee
06-17-2006, 12:43 AM
If thats the case i would have just used the 120 and just kept scooping infront of me and throwing the material as far as i could behind me. Just ride that big pile to where you want it moved to. If you figure you can scoop and dump about every ~10 seconds or so, times a full days hours, thats an assload of dirt

Gravel Rat
06-17-2006, 12:50 AM
With the trees in the back ground it looks like you would need a excavator to clear them out and pile it up then start bailing dirt. Once you get a pile going then you can start pushing with the track loader or the CTL.

With a track machine you can start a pile and build a ramp and keep pushing or dumping the material up. You can bail most of it with a excavator or make enough room with the excavator then use the track loader to start scooping and traveling to where your going to pile it.

Squizzy246B
06-17-2006, 03:43 AM
Hey Doug, you have got all you need there; Get that Ex and tracky going an it will be done in no time...too much analising and not enough action :rolleyes: :) Get stuck in mate...by the time the argument over which machines is best is finished you'll have it done. The reality is its not often you have the "perfect" machine(s) for the job...youi just make do with what you have.

Tigerotor77W
06-17-2006, 02:43 PM
you just make do with what you have.

He just has to park those machines next to the finished result, take a picture of them again, and send the "before and after" to his Deere dealer for a nice discount on his next equipment. :)

Looks good -- and good luck with the project. Not that you'll be busy or anything, but keep us posted!

thepawnshop
06-17-2006, 11:20 PM
End of day one...12 hours of all 4 machines running but no photos...too tired. If the rent doesn't break me, keeping these monsters in fuel will!

We did move an a**load of dirt, but didn't finish the front yard yet. All of the spoil from the foundation was piled up in the front...right where my drainfiled was going. SO we spent the whole day tracking dirt from teh front to the back. I'll post new pics Monday of the progress.

I found out that I have the track loader through next week, so we should be able to finish...as long as I can keep enough operators!

Tigerotor77W
06-17-2006, 11:23 PM
How do you like the loader? Is it a Series II?

Squizzy246B
06-19-2006, 08:19 AM
Well Doug...its Monday night here and no pic's:D :waving:

How's it going??

tylermckee
06-19-2006, 09:33 PM
OK, wheres the pics?

thepawnshop
06-19-2006, 11:02 PM
Ok, ok...I promiss...tomorrow there will be pics. I am pleased with the progress, but today and tomorrow will both be shortened days due to other obligations, but I am happy.

Xing, it is a Series 2 loader, and I absolutely SUCK on it. I do use it, but more material gets moved when I have a pro behind the sticks.

gammon landscaping
06-20-2006, 12:33 AM
i think that sqizzy has the right attitude. just go after it with what you have at hand. i think that alot of the mower boys just think you can get any thing you think you want, when in realality you have only a few peices of equipment that you have to do it all with. all this renting this machine for this and this machine for that is why we don't have quality operators now. my father has spent the first 20 years of his buisness with a case backhoe and a cat 941b loader. and he never had to rent the first thing. we can take these machines and do anything we need. now we have a larger collection of stuff but to this day we use a 953b and a 580sl case for 90% of our work. the 312 ,236,943 all spend most of the time sitting. i only use the skid for sewing yards and the attachments. just a note the other day i moved 650 yd3 150' up a steep hill in 8 hours with the 953b

Scag48
06-20-2006, 12:34 AM
Look at all those cute 'lil Deere's all in a row :laugh: I'm just playin! Hope you got it all done, Doug. If this would have been a hired job, I would have gotten an articulated truck and a 30 ton excavator or maybe a D6 or D7, but it looks like a bunch of Deere's got the job handled :weightlifter:

Squizzy246B
06-20-2006, 03:13 AM
but it looks like a bunch of Deere's got the job handled :weightlifter:

Yeah...wonders will never cease ay??:rolleyes: :laugh:

Tigerotor77W
06-20-2006, 07:31 AM
Squiz, you guys really don't see many Deere in your parts, do you?

Squizzy246B
06-20-2006, 10:51 AM
Squiz, you guys really don't see many Deere in your parts, do you?

Combine Harvesters (Jolly Green Frogs) and Tractors ...a few skids that the guys don't seem to like too much because they fall to bits, occaisional grader...never seen a JD Loader. Cat absolutley dominate the mining industry here, Komatsu and Hitachi (excavators only) are also doing well and are getting more service in the really remote areas where the mining happens...this has been the key to Cats success...support.

Deere earthmoving should do well because they have a good agricultural network already in West Aus...you just got to remember that distances are incredilble and the population sparse. Its not always economical for a manuf to put an effort into a small market thats going to give them service headaches.

Gravel Rat
06-20-2006, 03:57 PM
John Deere was popular for track loaders back in the olden days when they were still used. Track Loaders are pretty much gone like 8 track tapes they are not used much or very little. Mini trackloaders like skid steers are starting to be used more and will prolly be equal with rubber tired skid steers.

Deere, International and Caterpillar pretty much were the only brands of track loaders used in the area with bulldozers it is Cat and Deere but the majority of dozers are Cat.

For residential construction machines used the most is excavator,backhoe or skid steer they can get the job done quickly and easy to move its done move on to the next one.

Where you see Caterpillar equipment the most in this area is at the gravel mines out in the construction field its pretty much a assortment of brands.

To move the soil you have there we would prolly have used a excavator and truck. A regular dump truck works fine for a site truck you just have to make a decent road for it. You move 12 yards at a time it goes pretty quick. One job I was on we used a dump truck to move material 200' load the truck up back it to where it needed to be dumped drive ahead load up etc.

When you have a site truck you can overload it so legal on road capacity is 15 ton we were putting 21 or more ton into the truck.

Squizzy246B
06-21-2006, 11:22 PM
C,mon Dougie....where's the pic's mate??:rolleyes:

wo_horseman
06-28-2006, 10:37 PM
I agree with constucto , I to feel dozers don't get the praise they should. Here in north idaho a dozer is the most eficiant to run for just such aplications. Track hoes with tumbs get most of the jobs I bid on but It costs them a lot more in fuel . I run A TD 6 with a flip over blade so i can work brush or dirt. I do rent track hoes for line digging and basements. So I think your dozer is the best for this job:usflag: