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buckscapes
06-16-2006, 09:42 PM
I have an old case skid loader. It's good but is just too destructive for landscape use. Deep ruts and torn up lawns, no matter how hard I try not to. I have seen skid steers on lawns before, some leaving damage, some now. Even saw a guy popping wheelies to not tear it up. Tractor's too big for the work I do, is any skid steer good on the lawn? Even with turf tires it just ruts up the soft soil on a well-watered lawn. Any recommendations , I am in the market for a newer machine anyway.

AWJ Services
06-16-2006, 09:58 PM
Ventrac makes a neat small tractor.
I use a Kubota exclusively on lawns.It would be hard for me too imagine a lawn too small for it.
The only lawn friendly skid steer is the Bobcat articulating model.
It is really big though.

miacharger
06-17-2006, 02:05 AM
I have seen the ASV site and their "turf edition" and that seems to be a good solution. I have used rubber track loaders before and they are easier on a lawn than a wheeled loader. If you turn any way but on the spot, a healty lawn won't be damaged. Weak grass can rip out easily, even with a tractor. If the ground is wet you will damage the lawn, but the track loaders don't compact the soil and any damage grows back pretty fast.

AWJ Services
06-17-2006, 09:34 AM
I have used rubber track loaders before and they are easier on a lawn than a wheeled loader.

Even a dingo with Tracks does more damage than a wheeled machine when turning.

My CTL with its so called low called low ground pressure leaves very deep tracks in yards even in a straight line.

Probally 80 % of the sod I lay is in people's back yards.
I drive across existing lawns everyday and my Tractor is the least intrusive thing I have used.
I usually just put the sod in the bucket then drive across.

But I will agree if the lawn is very wet there is no solution .

Squizzy246B
06-17-2006, 09:38 AM
I have seen the ASV site and their "turf edition" and that seems to be a good solution. I have used rubber track loaders before and they are easier on a lawn than a wheeled loader. If you turn any way but on the spot, a healty lawn won't be damaged. Weak grass can rip out easily, even with a tractor. If the ground is wet you will damage the lawn, but the track loaders don't compact the soil and any damage grows back pretty fast.

http://asvi.com/rc50_turf.cfm
:)

Fordsuvparts
06-17-2006, 09:53 AM
You should look at a Rubber tracked machine, I like the Bobcat T190 it is a great machine in the grass rain or shine. We plant trees in the middle of very nice lawns on a weeekly basis and never have to worry about tearing up our customers grass. We did have a cat 247B it was just as good in the grass and almost as strong, it tipped a little easier but was a fairly good machine until it started to have to be worked on every week. We bought it with 600 hours and at first was great but after we put a couple hundred hours on it everything started to have problems in the ASV track system. It turns out that we were lied to about where it had been used. They did a real good job of cleaning it up and told us it had been used by a compnay that installed above ground pools. Turns out it was used in a coal mine and the very fine coal dust got in every bearing and seal and we started to have very costly down time. We ended up trading it and our 302.5 mini exc. on a 2006 T190 and a 2006 430 mini exc. My guys are hard on equipment but we make sure they are cleaned and greased every week and more often if they are worked in very muddy or dusty jobs. Just my 2 cents,

Tigerotor77W
06-17-2006, 01:41 PM
Fordsuvparts, how do you like the T190 and 430?

If you are considering a wheeled machine for lawns, also consider the Bobcat A300 -- it may be too heavy (even with your turf tires), but I'm not sure how big the turf tires you run now are.

Fordsuvparts
06-17-2006, 10:15 PM
They both seem to be better machines than the cat machines I had before. The t190 is the perfect machine for us, we use the auger on it to plant the larger trees and then it digs like a dozer with a toothed bucket, it can unload full pallets of block with ease for our retaining walls and pavers and it runs the power rake and grapple bucket no problem. the cat 247 is to light for heavy attachments, it tips very easy compared to the other machines i have.

Digdeep
06-18-2006, 10:46 AM
Buckscapes,

I own an RC50 and it is far superior to any other machine I have ever operated on turf. I sold the "white" machines for close to a decade, have tried all of the other rubber-tracked machines, used utility tractors, and nothing comes close. The utility tractors work well on turf, but I have found that if you want to do some moderate/serious excavation and need a little more lift the RC50 is the best. It's the lightest machine that has enough ROC(1500lbs) to get the job done. Time and time again I have looked at the work I have done on and around customers lawns and yards compared to the other tracked units and noone can come close to matching the sensitivity and production.

ksss
06-18-2006, 12:23 PM
FORD, I am curious why you like your T190? I have demoed them (03 and 05 model years with AHC controls not E/H pilots) and found it to be a lacking in nearly everything. Altitude may have something to do with performance, however the heavy sticks low hydrualic performance and excessive noise (most hydraulic noise) were distractors. Having come from CAT to Bobcat I would be curious was it due to the CAT under carriage problems alone? I found the CAT (277) more comfortable to run than a T250 although production favored the Bobcat in my experience. I guess I would like to hear more of why you went the way you did.

Fordsuvparts
06-18-2006, 01:44 PM
I probably like the bobcat more because i had so many problems with the 247b. Almost on a weekly basis we had the cat machine in for some type of service, it cost me a hour drive each way to drop it off and then turn around a come in get in in a few days. I think that i was a lemon because we demo a 277 for about a month. The demo was the way the cat dealer tried to make it up to us. We ended up paying thousands of dollars in repairs for a machine with less than 1000 hours on it and a full year left in the warranty. We also bought a 302.5 at the same time and it was not a bad machine but everthing on it rattled to death, it was 2002 machine with 1200 hours on it. Over all we spent like 70,000 with cat and ended up getting screwed every time we turned around. Bobcat has bent over backwards to help us out and we get a great deal on renting and buying attachments.
The 247 was a good machine in the dirt but could not lift what we needed it to do, the T190 out lifts it with ease, the bobcat has been very reliable so far ( we got them in november) I personally like the joystick controls on the cat better than the bobcat controls and yes i think the bobcat is a little nosier than the cat. We get way better service and support out of bobcat so that has swayed my vote to bobcat.

AWJ Services
06-18-2006, 06:09 PM
The utility tractors work well on turf, but I have found that if you want to do some moderate/serious excavation and need a little more lift the RC50 is the best.

I agree that a Tractor will not dig like a skid steer but you cannot take any skid steer on a lawn and turn sharp without damaging it.
With a Tractor I can.

Luckily I have a Tractor and a Skid Steer now so I have the best of both Worlds.

Craftybigdog
06-18-2006, 10:33 PM
All I have to say is the Bobcat A300 with turf tires. Mine is awesome and it doesnt tear up anything!

miacharger
06-21-2006, 05:19 PM
From using an RC-50 myself recently it impressed me how easy it is to operate and the power it has. Also the tracks do scrape sensitive surfaces but on a tough lawn with no load in the bucket, the tracks do little more than strip off some grass. All wheeled loaders leave ruts on soft ground and dig deep when turning. The damage you do in a rubber track loader seems to grow back faster than what a wheeled skid can do. Tractor is the least damaging, but seems to take longer to do the job and can end up compacting the ground. My choice is the rubber track loader.

Mike33
06-21-2006, 08:49 PM
i use bobcat 185 with steel tracks and doesent do bad. Rubber tire does make a mess
mike

Squizzy246B
06-21-2006, 10:18 PM
I agree that a Tractor will not dig like a skid steer but you cannot take any skid steer on a lawn and turn sharp without damaging it.
With a Tractor I can.

But thats not apples for apples because a tractor can't turn anywhere near as tight as a skid. If you turn a skid on the same turning circle as the tractor it wont do anymore damage.

The turf tracks are good but you still need some plywood in areas for hard turns.

AWJ Services
06-22-2006, 07:57 AM
If you turn a skid on the same turning circle as the tractor it wont do anymore damage.

5 too 6 times a Month I spend with My Tractor all over freshly manicured lawns tottin sod ,debris are what ever and when I leave there is very rarly a noticably scratch in there lawn.

That is my competitive advantage over skid steers.

I win bids everyday because of it.
I own a CTL and there is no way on this anyone can turn on a bermuda lawn in shape or fashion as I do with my Tractor and do no damage.

But thats not apples for apples because a tractor can't turn anywhere near as tight as a skid.

On a lawn they can turn sharper if Damage is taken into account.

Scag48
06-23-2006, 02:00 AM
The tractor/skid steer argument has been beaten to death. If you work on lawns, buy a tractor. If you move a lot of dirt, get a skid steer because it'll bury a tractor 3 ways to Sunday when it comes to moving large quantities of material.

miacharger
06-28-2006, 01:31 PM
You can't make a sharp turn in a tractor anyway, that's a fact. I was using a compact track loader on a st augustine lawn and it did not leave ruts like the tractor used to mow it did. Sandy or soft soil will rut even with a tractor but less likely with rubber track loader. Of course turning with a full bucket can cause damage but with an empty bucket it's unlikely. Tractors ideal for fertilizing, sperading sand, picking up yard waste and sperading mulch. For digging, spreading soil or removing debris I would go with the track loader. Trick I used was to let the grass grow for a few weeks before using the loader. After the job is done it can be mowed and a lot of the damage isn't there.

Tri-City GroundWorx
07-03-2006, 10:45 PM
I have to say I was skeptical at first, but I went to an ASV dealer to try the RC-50 after much questioning, and research. Needless to say before I left I loaded it up and brought it home. The ASV really does what it says they will, but I definately would not go with the Turf edition unless you are going to be working on a flat golf course, if grass is wet even the black rubbers with traction on them slide a little bit, but overall they are a great machine

tnmtn
07-03-2006, 10:54 PM
i'll second the all wheel steering mode. 9200 lbs and you can hardly tell i was there unless its after a good rain. as far as speed for loading it would have to be a real tight area before i would want a skid steer.

grassmanak
07-06-2006, 10:51 PM
kind of off topic but ive been doing a lot of small landscape installs, enought that its worth purchasing a small piece of equipment. Im looking for something to dig up sod, scoop and dump materials, and posssibly something with an auger attahment?? Any ideas

AWJ Services
07-07-2006, 07:00 AM
Pretty much everyone here will agree that the Harley Rake is the ideal tool too get up sod.

It can be driven by a Tractor,Skid Steer, or a Dingo style mini skid.

All 3 will drive augers and have the ability too move material with a bucket.

I use a Tractor for my small job.
I am not a bick fan of the Compact style tractors.I have a L3710 Kubota which falls into the med size of Tractors.Hydrastatic Drive is a must for small areas.
It is big and takes extra time too maneuver sometimes but a Dingo costs as much if not more and I do alot of Bushhogging which a Mini skid will not do well.

However If all my jobs were prepping small areas like beside walkways and through small gates(backyards) The dingo is the ticket.
They are a little pricey though.

My local rep for Boxer with the Diesel engine is bringing one for a demo.
He claims it will pull a 36 inch auger.
We will see.:weightlifter:

I also have used the new DitchWitch with Tracks.It is a nice Machine.

Digdeep
07-07-2006, 08:56 AM
Grassmanak,

Don't discount looking at the RC-30 for small landscape installs. I have a guy near me that owns two in his landscape operation. He always has his Harley Rake on one of them. I'm pretty sure it's a 4' rake with hydraulic angle. I've also seen him using an auger.

bbailey
07-07-2006, 09:38 AM
I have an RC-30, great machine. If you turn real sharp on grass it will tear the grass. You just have to be real careful. 10x better than tires on soft surfaces, no sinking or ruts!!!

grassmanak
07-07-2006, 11:14 PM
im looking for something small though as well, would a tractor work for what i need,the rc-30 is well out of my price range, im looking for more dingo size, or smaller tractor.

AWJ Services
07-08-2006, 09:58 AM
im looking for something small though as well, would a tractor work for what i need,the rc-30 is well out of my price range, im looking for more dingo size, or smaller tractor.

It will really depend on "how small" are the places you work.

Describe the jobs and it may help.

A dingo style power unit with no attachments new start in the 14k range.
You could easily have 25k in it with Harley rake,Trencher, bucket and Auger unit.

If you may one day decide too also do Irrigation ,water drain lines etc on small lots the Dingo is a plus for sure.
As of now I have too take down fences too get in some Backyards.



But at some point the dingo will be too small for a job.
That is why you see people purchase larger equipment first were they can have more versatility and just us Muscle on the really small stuff.
I purchased the Tractor first and for me it was the best alternative.
At the time most of my Sod installation was 5k sq/ft and up.

Keystone
07-12-2006, 10:53 AM
For AWJ, If you want to try out a Dingo and attachments let me know.

sunray
10-03-2006, 10:07 PM
I have a T-190 wide tracks and enclosed cab, it's great.
I would agree it will bog down and die under heavy loads, but over all it is a great machine.
I put the stump grinder on it, went in a wet backyard on a down hill slope.
I ground two oak stumps and backed out, you could hardly tell it had been there.
It really comes down to which machine works best for the type of work you are doing now.