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Frontier-Lawn
07-03-2006, 05:03 PM
Last Monday I took my less than 1yr old echo srm-210 to the shop. got a call today to pick it up, & ask what was wrong with it. He said it needed a new carb due to water at $105 (took it in because it ran fine at idle and quit at full throttle). i think thats a over priced and would be covered under the warranty?

lawnmaniac883
07-03-2006, 05:05 PM
Sounds a little pricey but thats what ya get for taking it to the shop...should have just bought the carb off of them and replaced it yourself. A new carb should be in the 60-80 range. Carbs arent covered under warranty.

mowerman90
07-03-2006, 05:09 PM
What you should do the next time is buy a rebuild kit for less than $10 and do it yourself.

MMLawn
07-03-2006, 05:37 PM
Last Monday I took my less than 1yr old echo srm-210 to the shop. got a call today to pick it up, & ask what was wrong with it. He said it needed a new carb due to water at $105 (took it in because it ran fine at idle and quit at full throttle). i think thats a over priced and would be covered under the warranty?


Nope. Cause the 210 is a homeowner model and you are using it commercially so the warranty is only 90 days in that case. Like was said a rebuild kit is $10-$20 andit couln't be any easier to rebuild it......at $105 I'd say your dealer doesn't like you very much

rodfather
07-03-2006, 06:00 PM
Nope. Cause the 210 is a homeowner model and you are using it commercially so the warranty is only 90 days in that case. Like was said a rebuild kit is $10-$20 andit couln't be any easier to rebuild it......at $105 I'd say your dealer doesn't like you very much

Beg to differ mike...dealer loves people like this when they can get away it. :nono:

MMLawn
07-03-2006, 06:06 PM
Beg to differ mike...dealer loves people like this when they can get away it. :nono:

Ahhh....correct again there Rodster.....you're right he is now this dealers "favorite" customer :laugh:

rodfather
07-03-2006, 06:15 PM
Now here's the scary part Mike...how do we know the carb wasn't just rebuilt in the first place unless you ask for and they hand ya the old one??? And unless you are a pretty good mechanic, how in the hell do you know the one they're handing ya is the old one that came off your machine? :laugh:

J&R Landscaping
07-03-2006, 06:18 PM
Not to argue with anyone but the 210 is warranted for 2 years to homeowners, 1 year to commercial people, 90 days rental.

That carb should have cost you like $40-$60 and it may have been covered under warranty. My dealer tries to get them covered under warranty as much as possible. I have no idea why it would cost you $105 to fix a $199 machine. I would dispute that as much as possible!!! WHats the shops posted labor rate and how long did it take. Carb R&R should take about 1/2 hour to 45 minutes TOPS!!!!!!!

J&R Landscaping
07-03-2006, 06:19 PM
Now here's the scary part Mike...how do we know the carb wasn't just rebuilt in the first place unless you ask for and they hand ya the old one??? And unless you are a pretty good mechanic, how in the hell do you know the one they're handing ya is the old one that came off your machine? :laugh:


If you have any doubts, I'd call Echo and report the dealer! Rod, you bring up a very good point!!!

MMLawn
07-03-2006, 06:19 PM
I think we both know the chances are very high they rebuilt it unless he ask for the old one there Rod.....no real reason not to just rebuild it

Frontier-Lawn
07-03-2006, 06:19 PM
the companys name is Sarasota Chain Saw. they sell; sthil, echo, exmark, scag, dixie, billy goat, shindawa, honda, and others i forget.

Also the j thomas list the carb as $41.99 & rebuild kit at $9.95

J&R Landscaping
07-03-2006, 06:22 PM
the companys name is Sarasota Chain Saw. they sell; sthil, echo, exmark, scag, dixie, billy goat, shindawa, honda, and others i forget.

Also the j thomas list the carb as $41.99 & rebuild kit at $9.95

I'd call echo on that one then. Did you get the old carb back, what other work did they do to the machine if any? Something is very F'd up here!!! :dizzy: :hammerhead:

Frontier-Lawn
07-03-2006, 06:23 PM
im going to pick it up wed.

rodfather
07-03-2006, 06:24 PM
Dealer wacked him with retail price on the carb and prob 1 hour min install I'm gonna bet...how else can ya substantiate $105 repair on the price of a $199 machine...can you say "highway robbery"?

MMLawn
07-03-2006, 06:27 PM
Dealer wacked him with retail price on the carb and prob 1 hour min install I'm gonna bet.


Exactly! Nothing to call Echo about. The dealer charged him full retail + sales tax (about $70) for the carb and 1 hour labor ($35)...

ed2hess
07-03-2006, 06:57 PM
And the actual time to put that carb off/on is 10 minutes max and you definitely didn't need a new one!!

topsites
07-03-2006, 07:03 PM
the companys name is Sarasota Chain Saw. they sell; sthil, echo, exmark, scag, dixie, billy goat, shindawa, honda, and others i forget.

Also the j thomas list the carb as $41.99 & rebuild kit at $9.95

huh I get 44.12 lol but you're right, even 50-60 I could see, maybe 70.
No echo carb no 100+ that bsbsbsbs.

tallimeca
07-03-2006, 07:26 PM
First of all , if it cost 105 parts and labor for the carb, that is a fair price. My shop, you would be looking at diagnostic and repair time, probably about 1/2 hour to 45 minutes, plus the carb. Closer to 140.

Second of all, the SRM210, along with any other Echo product is covered for 1 year commercially, unless it's a backpack blower, which is covered for 2.

If water damaged the card, that is NOT A WARRANY issue because Echo didn't put water in the fuel, the customer did, hence, his problem. However, myself as a dealer, would have filed a warranty on it and sent the customer on his way.

We do not bother rebuilding 2 cycle carbs anymore. Shop labor rate up in our area runs about 65-75 per hour. If i spend 20 minutes rebuilding , with a kit and it don't work.....which, alot of times , especially with the new rotary valve carbs, the rebuilds don't.........it's a waste of time and the customers money.

Most carbs retail between 40-90 dollars, so before you jump, make sure you have the facts. Yeah, it might take 10 minutes to swap the carb, but who pays diagnostic time?? Why should the dealer diagnose the problem for nothing. No power, but idles. Could be a number of things. Block spark arrest screen. Blocked exhaust port. Damaged fuel line. Blocked fuel filter. Air leak at the crank or cylinder seal. All this takes time. Just like if you go on a job to cut the grass. You aren't going to trim "just a hedge or two" for nothing are you? Time is money.

I, personally would have just bought another brand new one, and saved the other one for parts. But i would have never bought a 210 for commercial use. Would have went right for the 260S myself.

tallimeca
07-03-2006, 08:22 PM
When you start asking your dealer for parts back as proof they did the repair, that is a bad situation. They will take it personally, and it seems you already have a distrust for them. Ticking time bomb. If you don't feel comfortable with them, don't antagonize them but asking for parts back. Just find a new dealer.

Ask any repair shop, Power equipment, or automotive, what they think of a customer who asked for their parts back as proof a repair was done......you won't get a positive comment.

I can see if it was a recoil starter that you wanted a new one and wanted to keep the old one and fix it as a back up, but to say......i want the old one back to see if you really changed it...........might as well say, i think you guys are a bunch of liars.

Your equipment will not be fixed in a timely manor the next time you bring it in. I can guarantee you that. Dealer have more of a strong hold over you than you think. Sure you can go somewhere else, but what happens if you wear out your welcome there??

Just remember, these are the people that you might need when you are 2 days behind and have a problem that you really need taken care of asap. These are the people that are there when you screw your equipment up when it's under warranty, and although it's not really a warranty issue, they fix it for you any way. I'll give you another tip. Although dealers are competitive, they maintain relationships and communications to one another . There are about 4 dealers in my area and we are all friendly and communicate back and forth. If someone owes me money and is stiffing me......the word goes out, that way they aren't ringing a bill up at another shop. If someone bounces a check on me and won't return my calls, the word goes out. If you burned up a trimmer twice already because you mixed the oil wrong or used bad gas and had an argument and stormed out.....i bet I get a phone call warning me your on your way with a seized up trimmer you want replaced under warranty. You wouldn't think that would you???

Just tell them to call you with what it will cost to fix first........that way there are no issues. Easy enough. I call EVERYONE, consumer or commercial on anything that is going to exceed what I initially estimated, or if it's going to be any large amount.

Frontier-Lawn
07-03-2006, 08:34 PM
well they never told me they would call to let me know the low down. the other shop i took my edger to just cleaned out the tank change filter and regaped the plug and works fine $19.96.

MMLawn
07-03-2006, 09:06 PM
When you start asking your dealer for parts back as proof they did the repair, that is a bad situation. They will take it personally, and it seems you already have a distrust for them. ...........might as well say, i think you guys are a bunch of liars.



TRUST.....my friend is something to be earned.....NOT BOUGHT.....

cantoo
07-03-2006, 09:43 PM
I very seldom repair small equipment that quits running. I buy new and sell the old one at auction as a non runner. I do try to sell them before they quit so they can be sold as running to bring a few more dollars. I have very little patience for small engines. If it don't start on the first couple of pulls it goes to a corner to wait for the next auction sale load. Quicker and easier to buy new that waste my time on fixing it. My son will sometimes play with them to see if it's something easy or cheap to fix.

lawnman_scott
07-03-2006, 11:04 PM
the companys name is Sarasota Chain Saw. they sell; sthil, echo, exmark, scag, dixie, billy goat, shindawa, honda, and others i forget.

Also the j thomas list the carb as $41.99 & rebuild kit at $9.95I hate local dealers, and think they are pretty much useless. But, they are trying to make money. They mark up the parts, and actually have the nerve to charge for labor. How does it work? I have been there a few times for parts, and they have seemed like a pretty good place to me.

Frontier-Lawn
07-03-2006, 11:12 PM
freindly and helpful they are

Grassmechanic
07-04-2006, 09:34 AM
Ask any repair shop, Power equipment, or automotive, what they think of a customer who asked for their parts back as proof a repair was done......you won't get a positive comment.
I don't know about your state, but up here, the customer is allowed, BY LAW, to the return of all parts that were replaced. If the part has to go back to the factory for refurbishing, or as a "core" the customer is still allowed to inspect all parts before they are returned to the factory. Everyone should check state laws to see if it applies in their own state.

Charles
07-04-2006, 09:54 AM
This shop guy must think you were born yesterday. Anytime I take my equipment to the shop, I tell them if the repair is going to be over 20$ to call me first before they do anything and give me an estimate.
btw, I don't see how water can ruin a simple carb like echo's 210. Blow it out/rebuild, but not replace it. I would have done this myself or took it to a shade tree mechanic

DJL50
07-04-2006, 04:23 PM
Exactly why I by trimmers for $69 at the discount store. Got sick of paying $80 to have my good trimmer fixed. If it craps out. I just go buy a new one. Funny thing is that $69 trimmer has lasted me 6 years now with no problems. (home use) The old saying goes "You get what you pay for" but sometimes all you get is ripped off.

DJL50
07-04-2006, 04:25 PM
This shop guy must think you were born yesterday. Anytime I take my equipment to the shop, I tell them if the repair is going to be over 20$ to call me first before they do anything and give me an estimate.
btw, I don't see how water can ruin a simple carb like echo's 210. Blow it out/rebuild, but not replace it. I would have done this myself or took it to a shade tree mechanic
$20 at any dealer around here would not even pay for them to make a phone call. How in the would would you ever get anything fixed at a dealer for under $20?

MMLawn
07-04-2006, 05:06 PM
Exactly why I by trimmers for $69 at the discount store. Got sick of paying $80 to have my good trimmer fixed. If it craps out. I just go buy a new one. Funny thing is that $69 trimmer has lasted me 6 years now with no problems. (home use) The old saying goes "You get what you pay for" but sometimes all you get is ripped off.


Yeah, but this is a COMMERCIAL LCO forum and a commercial user that started this thread.......there is a HUGE difference in how we use ours and how you as a homeowner use yours. Plus we put as many hours on ours in a couple weeks as you put on yours in that 6 years. Shoot, if you just dropped yours once as hard and many times as we drop ours yours would break first time. A $69 Harbor Freight type homeowner compared to a Commercial $300-$300 one and how they are used is just plain Apples to oranges.

AAELI
07-04-2006, 05:13 PM
Repair on the small 2-stroke carbs is not rocket science, yet. They are picky about their fuel. Water will rust the metering lever at times or cause problems in the jet with particles, rust, pluging it up. I have made it a point to ask the customer what they prefer, new carb with free install or rebuild, $24 Labor + parts. Most want a rebuild. You want parts back? Most don't as they simply throw away. I do make them available, placing them in the bag the new parts came in, attaching them to the repair tag.

Calls for estimates require $20 deposit with the machine when dropped off. I will spend the time to perform failure analysis but not for free. Many have the idea my time is unlimited and at no cost if I do not repair, only inform them of the problem.

Posted Labor in my shop is $60 per hour. Minimum is $18. Little ole ladies and non-confrontational customers are often free labor for the plug changes and carb settings. I offer front of the line service for a six-pack (coke, not diet either) and enjoy the work. I spend about half my time in the shop repairing and most of the rest selling new equipment or parts.

I love getting paid for what I would gladly pay to be able to do.

J&R Landscaping
07-05-2006, 08:19 PM
When you start asking your dealer for parts back as proof they did the repair, that is a bad situation. They will take it personally, and it seems you already have a distrust for them. Ticking time bomb. If you don't feel comfortable with them, don't antagonize them but asking for parts back. Just find a new dealer.

Ask any repair shop, Power equipment, or automotive, what they think of a customer who asked for their parts back as proof a repair was done......you won't get a positive comment.

I can see if it was a recoil starter that you wanted a new one and wanted to keep the old one and fix it as a back up, but to say......i want the old one back to see if you really changed it...........might as well say, i think you guys are a bunch of liars.

Your equipment will not be fixed in a timely manor the next time you bring it in. I can guarantee you that. Dealer have more of a strong hold over you than you think. Sure you can go somewhere else, but what happens if you wear out your welcome there??

Just remember, these are the people that you might need when you are 2 days behind and have a problem that you really need taken care of asap. These are the people that are there when you screw your equipment up when it's under warranty, and although it's not really a warranty issue, they fix it for you any way. I'll give you another tip. Although dealers are competitive, they maintain relationships and communications to one another . There are about 4 dealers in my area and we are all friendly and communicate back and forth. If someone owes me money and is stiffing me......the word goes out, that way they aren't ringing a bill up at another shop. If someone bounces a check on me and won't return my calls, the word goes out. If you burned up a trimmer twice already because you mixed the oil wrong or used bad gas and had an argument and stormed out.....i bet I get a phone call warning me your on your way with a seized up trimmer you want replaced under warranty. You wouldn't think that would you???

Just tell them to call you with what it will cost to fix first........that way there are no issues. Easy enough. I call EVERYONE, consumer or commercial on anything that is going to exceed what I initially estimated, or if it's going to be any large amount.

Maybe your dealer doesn't return parts, but I've taken items to a few local dealers as well as been employed with a few local dealers and they all had the same policy. Parts that were removed be returned to the customer. The only exception was for tires, oil filters or old fuel etc. Even if the repair was done under warranty, you would be able to see the old part. They would show you the hold parts but then take them back in case they called called back by the manufacturer.

tallimeca
07-05-2006, 09:25 PM
Maybe your dealer doesn't return parts, but I've taken items to a few local dealers as well as been employed with a few local dealers and they all had the same policy. Parts that were removed be returned to the customer. The only exception was for tires, oil filters or old fuel etc. Even if the repair was done under warranty, you would be able to see the old part. They would show you the hold parts but then take them back in case they called called back by the manufacturer.

I do not return parts to my customers as a rule, unless it is a customer we've had problems with in the past, or you can tell the customer is going to be a pain in the ass from the time they walk through the door.

On home owner repairs, when they come in for a full service , and we replace the blade, we send the old blade back. They don't seem to understand that IT IS POSSIBLE to wreck a blade in a season. Half the time they don't know what they are looking at anyway and could care less.

Tracking down old parts and putting them with the machine is just too time consuming. Again, if you don't trust your dealer, you should just find a new one.

Can you imagine the look on your waiters face if you asked them if you can go watch them unpackage your food and cook it to make sure it was properly handled and didn't hit the floor???:dizzy:

MMLawn
07-05-2006, 09:58 PM
I do not return parts to my customers as a rule, unless it is a customer we've had problems with in the past, or you can tell the customer is going to be a pain in the ass from the time they walk through the door.

Kinda like we can tell if a dealer is going to be a pain in the azz when we walk through their door, huh?


Tracking down old parts and putting them with the machine is just too time consuming. Again, if you don't trust your dealer, you should just find a new one.


How would it be "time consuming" for the guy doing the repair to just place them in a clear plastic bag at the time he replaced them and tag them to the equipment?

Can you imagine the look on your waiters face if you asked them if you can go watch them unpackage your food and cook it to make sure it was properly handled and didn't hit the floor???:dizzy:

Ahhhh.....but they do. They are called Health Inspectors and they never know when one may walk through their door and they must meet state standards at all times or risk being closed down. Who checks on your work? No one. So, I say if the "dealer"gets mad or takes it as an insult if a customer (who as you know without, you as a dealer wouldn't even be in business or able to pay his light bill), ask for a part, then the dealer must have something to hide. I spend tens of thousands every year at my dealers and while I have never ask to see a replaced part, if I did and they copped the attitude about it you seem to have, well I'd just take my money elsewhere and make some other dealer, who was more customer friendly happy......

....cause you see, dealers, just like us lawn monkeys are a dime a dozen, so top quality service is what make either stand out and get and retain clients or customers.

DJL50
07-05-2006, 10:05 PM
Yeah, but this is a COMMERCIAL LCO forum and a commercial user that started this thread.......there is a HUGE difference in how we use ours and how you as a homeowner use yours. Plus we put as many hours on ours in a couple weeks as you put on yours in that 6 years. Shoot, if you just dropped yours once as hard and many times as we drop ours yours would break first time. A $69 Harbor Freight type homeowner compared to a Commercial $300-$300 one and how they are used is just plain Apples to oranges.

I owned a $300 commercial unit and it was a hunk of junk. I guess there is bad in every brand.

Charles
07-06-2006, 08:28 AM
$20 at any dealer around here would not even pay for them to make a phone call. How in the would would you ever get anything fixed at a dealer for under $20?

I didn't say dealer. I wouldn't take a weedeater to a dealer to be repaired. I take them to a shade tree or a hardware store mechanic. I wouldn't buy a small piece of equipment that only a dealer could repair. I like Echo stuff because there are many places around here to get them worked on. I like the light weight 210's and usually get a few years of service out of them. I keep the old one's for replacement parts. Lawn dealers are like auto dealers....

UBRKIFIX
07-06-2006, 09:14 AM
what! $105.00 to repalce carb on a echo.for starters the echo warranty is 1 year comm.and a good dealer would have filed a disputed claim for the cust.the carb list for $51.20 from echo and the part # is a021000110 if it has a zama carb on it(ciu-k58) call that dealer BACK!:nono:

Frontier-Lawn
07-06-2006, 10:06 AM
my mistake its a srm-230

kkat
07-06-2006, 10:27 AM
All I can see is that Frontier lawn paid was 105.00 for the complete repair, He hasent shown anybody the breakdown of the cost ie; cost of the carb, cost of determining the problem and the cost of total labor, ok so the carb cost $50.00, finding the problem and labor to fix another $40-$50 add a few extra $ for gaskets plus tax = $ Seems to me they did not spend even an hour to determine what the cause was and to repair the product, Frontier lawn should have ask for a guesstimate in the beginning paid the $20-$25 fee and taken it from there. Or taken on the repair himself. From what I read hear on these threads I dont see you guys doing any extra for your custermers without proper compensation. Sure you might do a little extra for the longterm good custermers but how many of you are long term good custermers to a dealer. All I see you guys doing is bitching about lowballers and bitching about dealers and bitching about custermers wanting more for less. If you stop and actually think about it Frontier Lawn actually was treated quite fairly I believe.

PowerEquipmentWarehouse
07-06-2006, 11:44 AM
We give our retail customers a list of policies regarding all of the above issues: Cost for an estimate, if requested; posted shop labor rate; extra time needed if part have to be ordered, etc. Since we began using this list as a claim check, problems are non-existant. For the record, we always give back any parts replaced, the only exception being warranty repairs that the manufacturer may request the parts be returned to them. (hydro pumps, ignition modules, etc). The prices for carbs for a SRM-210 vary depending on the serial number range, anywhere from $45-60. Depending on the labor rate, the repair still seems a bit high to me, but that's just my opinion. While I agree that water damage is not warranty, you must be careful with the disputed claim, you could get burned and be out everything for the repair......Mike

J&R Landscaping
07-06-2006, 02:07 PM
I guess when it all boils down, its not that bad but it seemed a bit high at first. The carb at my dealer would have been about $62, factor in about 1/2 hour of labor ($34) and its right on the money I guess even if it is a bit high!

AAELI
07-06-2006, 04:24 PM
I didn't say dealer. I wouldn't take a weedeater to a dealer to be repaired. I take them to a shade tree or a hardware store mechanic. I wouldn't buy a small piece of equipment that only a dealer could repair. I like Echo stuff because there are many places around here to get them worked on. I like the light weight 210's and usually get a few years of service out of them. I keep the old one's for replacement parts. Lawn dealers are like auto dealers....

I am a little confused Charles??? What type of equipment is there that only a dealer could repair? I have been working on small engines to diesels and haven't found anything yet that the right tools and know how could not fix. Publications are available to the literate to assit them in both troubleshooting and repair. I often train my commercial customers how to avoid problems with simple PM tips and am willing to do private service schools for the cost of a six-pack of real coke, NO DIET.
I am getting the idea that you have continuing issues with dealers amoung others.

topsites
07-06-2006, 04:33 PM
I think you guys need to lay off tallimecca, he's apparently a dealer but that doesn't make him the bad guy while all he's saying is if you don't trust your dealer, then find someone else.

As for earning the trust, same thing: If your dealer doesn't earn your trust, then find someone else.

My dealer just sold out and I'm not 100% with the new guys but I also have a National Toro account, and the new dealer knows what this means just as much as I do: If I don't trust my dealer, I can and will find someone else and fast. But I'm not stupid, I understand the dealer has his own interests placed before mine, but then all dealers do this so I am giving the new guy time.

This clarifies the dealer's standpoint as well: Most Lco's are fly-by-night (less than 2 years in), ain't got squat for credit except their personal credit card and their collateral is their house so who is to say they'll be here 5 and 10 years down the road? NEXT !!!
dang straight, if I play hardball with my customers, I would expect any dealer of mine to play hardball as well: NEXT !!!

For a carb, they likely paid 40 dollars + shipping so $45, then an hour labor at $50 = 100.00
If that bothers anyone and you KNOW it's the carb, then replace it yourself, yes, even if it's still under warranty.

tallimeca
07-07-2006, 11:50 AM
glad to see a couple of you get it. For the rest, good luck to you.

Repair on the small 2-stroke carbs is not rocket science, yet. They are picky about their fuel. Water will rust the metering lever at times or cause problems in the jet with particles, rust, pluging it up. I have made it a point to ask the customer what they prefer, new carb with free install or rebuild, $24 Labor + parts. Most want a rebuild. You want parts back? Most don't as they simply throw away. I do make them available, placing them in the bag the new parts came in, attaching them to the repair tag.

That's all well and good, but it's getting to the point when you KNOW ITS THE CARB. I would never just slap a new carb on a customer's machine because he brought it in and said it's a carb problem. 99 percent of the equipment that get's dropped off, the people say, oh, the fuel bowl or the fuel line is clogged, that's all. When in reality, they have no idea what is wrong, because if they did, they would have already fixed it.

Anyone who knows anything about 2-strokes, knows there's dozens of symptoms that could resemble a poor fuel distribution condition, that is actually not a carb problem. Air leaks are the worst. Without pressure testing the crankcase, how would you know??? How do you know it's a bad seal or cylinder gasket? You don't. It takes time to diagnose issues. I've seen equipment come in so many times that was at other dealers 2-3 times and they replaced the carb, and fuel lines, and all the while, it had an air leak and was leaning out and dying, or eventually seized. Why? Because no one took the time to diagnose it properly. 1/2 hour -3/4 hours to leak down a 2 stroke and replace a crank seal is a 50-60 dollar repair, rather than $125 bucks to throw a carb on and have it come back 2-3 times.

The best is the new coils actually have rev limiters built in, so if you are say.....winding out your chain saw with no load, the coil will only let rev so high and cut it out. Well there's been problems with coils and the engines can break up in high rpm. Just slap a new carb on, that'll fix it!!!! Hahahaha. It's crazy.

How water damages a carb is like this. Say a set of hedge clippers. Seasonal equipment that you might only use a couple times a year, not like your string trimmer. Gets water in the fuel. The water causes the aluminum to oxidize and changes/alters/distorts the passages in the carbs. With the older adjustable carbs, this was never an issue because you could tweek them and make them run fine. The new ones......forget it. Pull it apart and replaced the diaphram and blow it out. If everything else checks out, and it's still the carb, either replace the carb, or depending on price, replace the unit complete. What I do at my shop is if we diagnose a failure that is exceeding the customers wishes on what they wanted to spend to fix it, or what the machine is worth, I gladly waive the minimum charge and will dispose of the machine if they wanted to replace it with something we sell. Customers, especially the homeowners think it's the greatest thing ever.

Kinda like we can tell if a dealer is going to be a pain in the azz when we walk through their door, huh?

Yes exactly. If you feel that way, you have the option to turn around and bring your equipment to another dealer. Just like you guys have customers that are pains in the asses to you, the dealers to as well. Don't forget that. Remember all the complaints you may have gotten about your guys blowing grass on the central air unit, or the clump of grass that was on the sidewalk when your crew left, or there was a small scalp spot near the bed......

Don't get me wrong, i have a TON of GREAT customers. Then i have the customers that nickle and dime you to death, don't spend spit worth of money, go to another dealership to buy a competitors product to save 10 bucks, then bring it by and tell me how it's brand new and already broke, and needed it yesterday. Do the math on how that turns out. Unfortunately, I can't stand at my door and hand pick my customers. I take care of the good ones and systematically remove the bad ones that cause me, and everyone who works for me nothing but grief and aggrivation.

How would it be "time consuming" for the guy doing the repair to just place them in a clear plastic bag at the time he replaced them and tag them to the equipment?

For spark plugs, filters, carbs, it's easy. But we fix alot more than those problems.

If a guys brings in a walker and says it stopped running and there's oil everywhere, I call him and tell him he threw a rod and needs a motor. Am I going to throw the old one on the deck or maybe shove it in the bagger to show him???

Fortunately, I don't have this problem with the commercial guys, it's mainly the homeowners. You are right, the small stuff is easily tied to the handle. Like I said, we know if a customer is going to be a pain. I have had customers be so rediculous when dropping off equipment, that I have flat out told them that It's obvious they don't feel comfortable leaving their equipment to be worked on, so I don't feel comfortable working on it and they should bring it somewhere else.

You first must understand, we are in the Boston, Ma area. This is the rudest, meanest, down right nastiest group of people i've ever met. It's amazing just how miserable people are.

The free carb adjustments, and putting someone ahead for a six pack. YEAH RIGHT!!!! I'd have customers beating the crap out of each other in the parking lot. I adjust a carb for free, next season if it don't run, they'll bring it back and say I screwed it up because it was fine until I adjusted the carb......even though it ran for the past year!!! I'm telling you. You can't even imagine!!! I often feel like calling Discovery and having them come down and do a show... American Mower!

Ahhhh.....but they do. They are called Health Inspectors and they never know when one may walk through their door and they must meet state standards at all times or risk being closed down. Who checks on your work? No one. So, I say if the "dealer"gets mad or takes it as an insult if a customer (who as you know without, you as a dealer wouldn't even be in business or able to pay his light bill), ask for a part, then the dealer must have something to hide. I spend tens of thousands every year at my dealers and while I have never ask to see a replaced part, if I did and they copped the attitude about it you seem to have, well I'd just take my money elsewhere and make some other dealer, who was more customer friendly happy......

So you , not being a health inspector...would go into a restaraunt and ask to see them make your food? No, I didn't think so.

Now, you have things a little twisted here. I'm not saying dealers always get mad, whenever someone asks for a part back. Like I said, there I times when I send parts back to show them things of interest. There are times when customers ask for things back just out of curiousity. My point is when start asking for parts back left and right because you think you are getting screwed, ......the dealer isn't stupid. And if they are honest and have to feel like they are being interigated everytime they do a repair, i can backfire in your face.

....cause you see, dealers, just like us lawn monkeys are a dime a dozen, so top quality service is what make either stand out and get and retain clients or customers.

Well, it seems like you have an obvious chip on your shoulder, however, I beg to differ as far as dealers go. If they were a dime a dozen, then there wouldn't be enough buisness to go around. And you just said top quality service is what make them stand out. A dime a dozen and top quality service do not go hand and hand. So either your in an area with the most concentrated group of award winning dealers, or your perception of a dime a dozen, or top quality is clouded. Point being if you don't like/or trust your dealer, you should go elsewhere. They know if you don't like them. If you are running your mouth, it will get back to them, and you will end up paying for it in the end, buy either down time from your equipment taking longer to fix, then it normally would, or them banging your on bills, or worse, sabotaging your equipment. Take it for what it's worth.

tallimeca
07-07-2006, 12:05 PM
also,

I don't look at landscapers as lawn monkeys. I look at them as buisness associates. I need you like you need me. Sometimes relationships are good. Sometimes they are not.

I crawled around on a shop floor covered in **** fixing mowers and equipment for a long time before I made my exit from the shop to the top. I went home every night smelling like gas and oil and crap, with the filthy, grease engraved hands and wasn't allowed to touch anything, or anyone untill I hit the shower. So I don't sit on any high horse and look down on anyone. You guys that are out in the field every day work like animals and I know how unappreciated it can feel.

I still turn wrenches from time to time, or help my techs trouble shoot and diagnose odd problems. In fact i had to go resuce a Jacobsen turf cat that sat dead as a fart in the middle of the field the other day. By the way, Kubotas don't like #2 fuel. Cloggs the crap out of the fuel filters.

Frontier-Lawn
07-07-2006, 12:46 PM
since that dealer also carrys tanaka, whats my chances of geting him to let me trade it on a tbc-230 or so?